Todays Nerf, Your Feelings?

wrathofrraath · September 2015

I never liked skoria and the sun set got waay too popular.

Today ruled

Siniztor · September 2015

NDwarf wrote: »

Ouch. We didn't get this patch on console yet but you PC guys make this DLC sound like Star Wars Galaxies NGE. Not good.

Oh god that made me crindge...Ohh the NGE flash backs....i hope nothing is ever like that again

Jennifur_Vultee · September 2015

I played my dragonknight tank tonight. I'll either not play her until they fix this stamina nerf or try to find a way to salvage her as a mage build since she's VR15 now. As a tank I have never felt so weak and useless as I did tonight...thanks Zenimax for ruining my favorite character. If I block a couple times I run out of stamina, if I don't block when I need to I take too much damage. I'm spending more time just trying to stay alive than I am actually tanking and if I dodge roll out of the red that just puts me in an even worse place with my stamina reserves. I feel like Zenimax has tossed tanks under the bus then to add insult to injury ran us over a few times to make sure we knew how much they dislike tanking in their game.

Zenimax...
No%20More_zpstjrsauax.jpg

Your players are getting fed up with the lack of competence in your lead combat designer...maybe its time to replace him with someone with a clear vision of what ESO combat should be.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · September 2015

Siniztor wrote: »

NDwarf wrote: »

Ouch. We didn't get this patch on console yet but you PC guys make this DLC sound like Star Wars Galaxies NGE. Not good.

Oh god that made me crindge...Ohh the NGE flash backs....i hope nothing is ever like that again

Maybe they replaced Paul Sage and Nick Konkle with John Smedley and didn't tell us.

Personofsecrets · September 2015

Huggalump wrote: »

I'm not a tank, so feel free to disregard my opinion, but I feel like we should give it more than a day. I spent a lot of time on the PTS forum (fighting for my stam sorc brethren). At the start, there were a lot of threads like this. But overtime, more and more threads started coming up of people liking the 0% while blocking change and some threads of tanks saying it is very doable, just different.

So I'm not sure, maybe it is just a flat out bad change... but I think it needs more time to test and decide.

well, we have given it a month of testing on pts.

Personofsecrets · September 2015

bowmanz607 wrote: »

still plenty of perma blocking going on, but it requires you to spec to it losing valuable points elsewhere.

That has always been the case.

Personofsecrets · September 2015

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

I played my dragonknight tank tonight. I'll either not play her until they fix this stamina nerf or try to find a way to salvage her as a mage build since she's VR15 now. As a tank I have never felt so weak and useless as I did tonight...thanks Zenimax for ruining my favorite character. If I block a couple times I run out of stamina, if I don't block when I need to I take too much damage. I'm spending more time just trying to stay alive than I am actually tanking and if I dodge roll out of the red that just puts me in an even worse place with my stamina reserves. I feel like Zenimax has tossed tanks under the bus then to add insult to injury ran us over a few times to make sure we knew how much they dislike tanking in their game.

Zenimax...

Your players are getting fed up with the lack of competence in your lead combat designer...maybe its time to replace him with someone with a clear vision of what ESO combat should be.

replace the lot of them.

Caligamy_ESO · September 2015

Yeah not liking the Stamina nerf at all, I pretty much converted my stam DK from werewolf to vampire and just put skill point into blacksmithing, woodworking, and clothier.. so now hes my crafter/hireling slave who cant fight at all.

1 Less tank in the PVE world

Francescolg · September 2015

Stamina classes & Tanks have to get a more sustainable build. That means much more than 1k stamina regeneration!!

IF you focus solely on high stamina / weapon damage, you are doing it wrong!

Check the PTS-forums, as well as many possible builds (not just the 5k weapon damage build!) on how to adapt to this patch.
You'll need 2k-3k stamina regeneration to feel a difference and you'll like it, as many players already did in 1.6.

If you did / do not adapt, you already did it wrong after 1.6!

There're 2 interesting threads in the PTS forum about the "% healing on oneself" and about 6k stamina regen. Look in this threads for "hints". You'll be able to push the "% selfheal" to over 50% with ease (also buffing healings you get).

Get your 3-4k stamina regen.

(Serpent mundus = 2xx stamina regen
Fighters guild ability = stamina back on each heavy attack, etc.)

criscal · September 2015

I am pretty angry about the stamina change in tanking. The only work-around I see for my tank is to go magicka regeneration and use magicka skills for most stuff and use stamina for blocking only - if that is enough stamina. My internet isn't good enough to get the shield up for single blocks. The only work around this piece of *** change might be to sync the block release with the stamina tick - since there are hardly any options for a dk tank imo to get back stamina besides potions. Using some hearth? skills give back 5% with use and using an ultimate gives back some but that's it I think. I am not happy about this change at all and I am going to cancel my subscription tonight regardless of how it works out or rather around. Already bought the dlc with my surplus crowns. I hope I can give my 2 cents with the cancellation.

solipsist · September 2015

So how do you build a DK Tank that's Magika based? The most important agro generating skill in the game is Puncture which is Stamina based.

criscal · September 2015

Going magicka means for me putting up igneous shields a lot. Use Dragon blood for healing and inner fire for taunt - which was at least before the patch the more reliable of the two skills anyway.

Cavedog · September 2015

Francescolg wrote: »

Stamina classes & Tanks have to get a more sustainable build. That means much more than 1k stamina regeneration!!

IF you focus solely on high stamina / weapon damage, you are doing it wrong!

Check the PTS-forums, as well as many possible builds (not just the 5k weapon damage build!) on how to adapt to this patch.
You'll need 2k-3k stamina regeneration to feel a difference and you'll like it, as many players already did in 1.6.

If you did / do not adapt, you already did it wrong after 1.6!

There're 2 interesting threads in the PTS forum about the "% healing on oneself" and about 6k stamina regen. Look in this threads for "hints". You'll be able to push the "% selfheal" to over 50% with ease (also buffing healings you get).

Get your 3-4k stamina regen.

(Serpent mundus = 2xx stamina regen
Fighters guild ability = stamina back on each heavy attack, etc.)

That's all well and good...until you decide to block, and it burns your stamina and you can't regen it unless you don't block....and then you can't block anymore because you dodged and/or rolled because you're out of stamina and can't block anymore. .......

Bottom line is every group is going to suffer from this nerf, not just the tanking stamina builds.

bowmanz607 · September 2015

Stravokov wrote: »

last three patches have been a roller coaster. first my Nightblade drain power magicka tank was awesome, then they buffed stamina to the point of it out doing NB Magika so i rolled stamina. now we are back to magicka dominating... they have no idea how to balance the game clearly lol.

next patch stamina will be on top again

I dknt know what problem you are having with stam builds. I have plenty of sustain and weapon damage.

13igTyme · September 2015

Kalfis wrote: »

NDwarf wrote: »

Ouch. We didn't get this patch on console yet but you PC guys make this DLC sound like Star Wars Galaxies NGE. Not good.

PC received the beta verison, the consoles will get the ACTUAL version later.

It's not the actual version if it's missing basic MMO functions like text chat/proper grouping/etc.

Van_0S · September 2015

To be honest with you,I don't care.
But if they continue to do this then many of us will stop playing this game.

for there are other better mmo out there

NeillMcAttack · September 2015

From what I can see in total honesty with my sole reference being the patch notes is that the stamina "nerfs" will not make much of a difference with regards balance.
A DK that can tank while regaining stamina without using pots is unbalanced.
Non stamina builds having enough resources to position themselves like a stamina build is unbalanced.

Those are my feelings...

EvilEmpire · September 2015

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

I played my dragonknight tank tonight. I'll either not play her until they fix this stamina nerf or try to find a way to salvage her as a mage build since she's VR15 now. As a tank I have never felt so weak and useless as I did tonight...thanks Zenimax for ruining my favorite character. If I block a couple times I run out of stamina, if I don't block when I need to I take too much damage. I'm spending more time just trying to stay alive than I am actually tanking and if I dodge roll out of the red that just puts me in an even worse place with my stamina reserves. I feel like Zenimax has tossed tanks under the bus then to add insult to injury ran us over a few times to make sure we knew how much they dislike tanking in their game.

Zenimax...

Your players are getting fed up with the lack of competence in your lead combat designer...maybe its time to replace him with someone with a clear vision of what ESO combat should be.

That's because they don't even play tanks. I've never seen a single dev or qa video where they even had a tank in their group. Now that I think back, I don't even recall them playing stamina based chars, so I'm sure they're quite happy with all these nerfs. Heaven forbid stam based chars actually stay competitive.

As mentioned above, it's a *** joke that stam users have to manage their resource pool for skills, rolls, blocks, etc whereas a mag based char with their single mag pool not only buff their damage, but also their def.

Elijah_Crow · September 2015

Just FYI,

I'm a Bosmer Stam Nightblade (formerly werewolf). I used to put on 5 PC heavy and two PC medium with sword and board to tank for my group. After playing with the changes on PTS I realized I could not be both a tank and DPS and for PVP I wanted high DPS. This is the big difference for tanks.

My wife took her light armor templar healer and turned it into a heavy armor heal tank to relieve me of that responsibility. We found that she could still tank and heal where I could not tank and DPS.

For the DPS side it was challenging to find a way to balance high weapon damage, high crit, stamina cost reduction, and stamina regen but with some mundus stone changes and gear changes I was able to reach a little higher weapon damage with more regen than I have ever had on live. It took some testing and work but we are loving the changes.

With what I have learned in this process I could actually go back to tanking if I were willing to give up my 4k weapon damage. I personally don''t want to do that. Just thought I would share and let everyone know that it's possible to work with these changes but it may require new gear and some changes in abilities, etc.

Spent the whole month testing on PTS to find the sweet spot for me.

capnbinky · September 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

What I find to be totally stupid... is how Stamina is used for so many things, yet Magicka is ONLY used for spells and certain abilities. It would not be out of line for them to offer INCREASED Stamina in the attribute points- allowing Stamina-build players to acquire more Stamina since they have to use it to pay for roll-dodge, sneaking, sprinting, blocking, weapon abilities and some Class abilities. Magicka doesn't have that problem, and THIS is where I see the problem coming from. TOO MANY resources are put against Stamina and it seriously needs to be addressed.

Interestingly enough... they put this whole 'roll-dodge' penalty into the game at the same time they increase PvE enemy AoE's which now require you to use roll-dodge even more. Go figure.

What you don't see if how badly the stamina regen nerf is affecting magicka-based players. I can't cc break and roll-dodge more than once when surrounded. I have no escape.

FriedEggSandwich · September 2015

Been playing IC for the last 5 hours. In all honesty, inside the confines of IC, apart from slightly reduced regen I actually feel like I've been buffed. Oh zenimax what have you done? I haven't tested it out in the open yet, and things might well change when new sets appear, but basically sorc feels like god-mode atm.

Edit: unless you have more than 3 people on you there is no need to use more than one shield. The other classes are not gonna like this when they find out.

Reverb · September 2015

The thread title made me chuckle. The wording makes it sound like my feelings got nerfed. Then I realized it's true. My feelings about ESO did get nerfed, but it may be temporary. I'm more ambivalent about the game than ever (including after the b2p announcement).

I was so excited for IC. So excited for new pvp content, and campaign rule changes! My primary toons are a Templar healer and tanky(ish) dk. On PTS I wasn't able to find a build for either of them that was fun in pvp. Moderately successful yes, but not fun. I didn't even bother to respec my dk last night. Easy (and true) to say I just need to l2p the new meta, but I just don't care anymore.

But then what? I could level my alts, and enjoy questing or adventuring. But knowing that I won't earn CP for it kills my motivation. I could grind alts to V1 as quickly as possible, to limit time lost in the CP race, but that gets old fast, and doesn't contribute to my enjoyment of the game. Maybe I'll see whats on tv instead.

Wing · September 2015

my new conspiracy theory is that without tanks people will be doing less end game PvE content leaving only PvP for them to do. . .and they can get the shiny new imperial city in the crown store! ^_^

nice one ZO$

FriedEggSandwich · September 2015

Wing wrote: »

my new conspiracy theory is that without tanks people will be doing less end game PvE content leaving only PvP for them to do. . .and they can get the shiny new imperial city in the crown store! ^_^

nice one ZO$

My conspiracy theory: sorcs will be the new tanks.

abuniffpreub18_ESO · September 2015

MrGrimey wrote: »

A whole month of testing, a whole month of stamina having resource management issues and not a single bit of feedback was taken into account... Thanks for listening zenimax

That's because PTS is a joke. When they released this DLC yesterday that's when the beta test began. PTS is just for show.

mateoz · September 2015

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

I played my dragonknight tank tonight. I'll either not play her until they fix this stamina nerf or try to find a way to salvage her as a mage build since she's VR15 now. As a tank I have never felt so weak and useless as I did tonight...thanks Zenimax for ruining my favorite character. If I block a couple times I run out of stamina, if I don't block when I need to I take too much damage. I'm spending more time just trying to stay alive than I am actually tanking and if I dodge roll out of the red that just puts me in an even worse place with my stamina reserves. I feel like Zenimax has tossed tanks under the bus then to add insult to injury ran us over a few times to make sure we knew how much they dislike tanking in their game.

Zenimax...

Your players are getting fed up with the lack of competence in your lead combat designer...maybe its time to replace him with someone with a clear vision of what ESO combat should be.

This is what i experienced yesterday.
Ran some group content to try the new nerf and it was patetic. (DSA, Vet Dungeon and white gold tower)
Since 2014 I was used to get aggro of 5+ at a time and sustaining my healt. now I can berely keep 2 aggro and I must play the resource management game all the time i was more worry about my healt/stam/mag than the actual tank job.
I know its day 1 and we will adapt with the new sets (when i get 100k TV in a month) but think of the wannabe tank V1-13 they will just quit tanking and good luck finding one in a near future.

I predict all dungeon will be like 3 DPS and a healer , *** off the tank they are not good for groups anymore

kaithuzar · September 2015

omg, tldr; WAY too much crying here. If you think anything other than "stam is OP" you're not reading the champion point passive bonuses >.>
Just b/c you either:
a) lack champion pts or b) can't one button win, does NOT mean cry to make them change the game.
If something really is broken I'll gladly support changing it otherwise stop crying & l2p

bowmanz607 · September 2015

abuniffpreub18_ESO wrote: »

MrGrimey wrote: »

A whole month of testing, a whole month of stamina having resource management issues and not a single bit of feedback was taken into account... Thanks for listening zenimax

That's because PTS is a joke. When they released this DLC yesterday that's when the beta test began. PTS is just for show.

Zero issues with stamina managment here

mateoz · September 2015

kaithuzar wrote: »

omg, tldr; WAY too much crying here. If you think anything other than "stam is OP" you're not reading the champion point passive bonuses >.>
Just b/c you either:
a) lack champion pts or b) can't one button win, does NOT mean cry to make them change the game.
If something really is broken I'll gladly support changing it otherwise stop crying & l2p

You add nothing here, do you try out tanking with the change?
a) lack champion pts
Wrong personally I have 300+ CP
b) can't one button win
come on Tank cant 1 button win is isnt DPS

Have you even try to tank with the change?

jkemmery · September 2015

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

I played my dragonknight tank tonight. I'll either not play her until they fix this stamina nerf or try to find a way to salvage her as a mage build since she's VR15 now. As a tank I have never felt so weak and useless as I did tonight...thanks Zenimax for ruining my favorite character. If I block a couple times I run out of stamina, if I don't block when I need to I take too much damage. I'm spending more time just trying to stay alive than I am actually tanking and if I dodge roll out of the red that just puts me in an even worse place with my stamina reserves. I feel like Zenimax has tossed tanks under the bus then to add insult to injury ran us over a few times to make sure we knew how much they dislike tanking in their game.

Zenimax...

Your players are getting fed up with the lack of competence in your lead combat designer...maybe its time to replace him with someone with a clear vision of what ESO combat should be.

Just want to second this opinion. Trying to take on several PVE mobs on a tank build has become nigh impossible. Groups I could easily handle before now burn me down before I can them. I have a magica DK tank, the stamina I do have is reserved primarily for blocking and shielded assault. Between that and the fps issues, the game has become unpleasant to play, and I have not even yet been to IC.