Sad truth about IC

Avonna · August 2015

well i have my bags of popcorn sitting on the island , just waiting to be popped for tomorrows forum drama festivities ...

it should be a fabulous show.

Robbmrp · August 2015

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

please keep in mind that imperial city is not the size of cryodiil. much smaller and probably alot less build area, this will give us a better chance. ( i hope ) only way to see it in action is on monday when its live and we all are in there.
just my 2 septims.

It is a lot smaller. When you add that size into the equation and all of Cyrodil will be loaded into it, we won't even be able to open a door the lag will be so bad.

Sharee · August 2015

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

please keep in mind that imperial city is not the size of cryodiil. much smaller and probably alot less build area,.

More characters in a smaller area?

Sounds like it will be much much worse.

IC isn't a single area. It is 16 separate areas(with zone transitions between them), and the same amount of players that originally all played in a single zone will now be split over 17, because the population cap hasn't been changed and applies to both cyrodiil and imperial city.

All districts are not separate zones, IC is its own zone and Cyrodiil is its own, those are the only two.

You have to zone to move from one district to another, it is not seamless. Thus they are separate zones.

That the lag in one of the zones won't affect others is actually from the dev's mouth (said during some eso live IIRC).

Gilvoth · August 2015

Sharee wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

please keep in mind that imperial city is not the size of cryodiil. much smaller and probably alot less build area,.

More characters in a smaller area?

Sounds like it will be much much worse.

IC isn't a single area. It is 16 separate areas(with zone transitions between them), and the same amount of players that originally all played in a single zone will now be split over 17, because the population cap hasn't been changed and applies to both cyrodiil and imperial city.

All districts are not separate zones, IC is its own zone and Cyrodiil is its own, those are the only two.

You have to zone to move from one district to another, it is not seamless. Thus they are separate zones.

That the lag in one of the zones won't affect others is actually from the dev's mouth (said during some eso live IIRC).

well, then thats excelent news

this means we might see almost zero lagg, i hope

Sharee · August 2015

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

please keep in mind that imperial city is not the size of cryodiil. much smaller and probably alot less build area,.

More characters in a smaller area?

Sounds like it will be much much worse.

IC isn't a single area. It is 16 separate areas(with zone transitions between them), and the same amount of players that originally all played in a single zone will now be split over 17, because the population cap hasn't been changed and applies to both cyrodiil and imperial city.

All districts are not separate zones, IC is its own zone and Cyrodiil is its own, those are the only two.

You have to zone to move from one district to another, it is not seamless. Thus they are separate zones.

That the lag in one of the zones won't affect others is actually from the dev's mouth (said during some eso live IIRC).

well, then thats excelent news
this means we might see almost zero lagg, i hope

Yeah, as long as the whole cyrodiil doesn't decide to take part in the memorial district general melee madness at the same time

WillhelmBlack · August 2015

Gyudan wrote: »

There are no torchbugs or deers, so everything should be fine.

Oh lawdy!

imredneckson · August 2015

I hope you're wrong buddy I really do

SC0TY999 · August 2015

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

And with all the buffs zergs are getting(blanket damage nerf) it will take even longer for zerg-clusters to die... which means more purge and barrier spam, and more lag.

Which is the exact reason why AoE damage needs to increase in damage based on targets hit instead of reduce. ZoS said "we dont want to increase AoE damage based on targets hit because that will negatively effect PvE". That is probably the dumbest thing I've heard, they are afraid of changing something which will greatly benefit PvP because of PvE. Its simple Make AoE attacks increase in damage based on targets hit in PvP, leave it as is for PvE it doesnt take away from PvE and it would help PvP a lot.

If AoE increased in damage on targets in PvP everyone would spread out because if they balled up they would get destroyed, the reason why we see zerg trains of 40+ people is because if they all stack they take literally no damage. If ZoS ever wanted to fix or give a damn about PvP they would start changing how abilities work in PvP and PvE, because its obviously not working how it is currently.

And I sure am tired of playing an unplayable game.

I don't understand why they can't just implement the changes we know will help PvP, by applying it to the battle spirit buff?

That way it doesn't affect PvE!

example: No AOE cap buff applied to battle spirit.

Any reason why this cannot be done @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?

Soulac · August 2015

Choooooooooo chooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

SkylarkAU · August 2015

Talcyndl wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

please keep in mind that imperial city is not the size of cryodiil. much smaller and probably alot less build area, this will give us a better chance. ( i hope ) only way to see it in action is on monday when its live and we all are in there.
just my 2 septims.

It's not the size of the zone. As ZOS has admitted, it's the server load caused by calculating spammable AoE spells for large number of players packed in close proximity. There is little reason to think ZOS has fixed that issue.

I will be amazed if IC isn't consistently and horribly laggy.

Except the announcement ZOS made about removing erroneous LOS checks that have been a major contributor to pvp lag (particularly around AoE abilities).

Bashev · August 2015

In 2-3 days we will find a ZoS comment. Please try to stay in different districts if you dont want to be laggy. We understand that the game state is too laggy but we cannot improve it by adding new hardware.

Etaniel · August 2015

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Here's whats going to happen in IC, and its not happy so I hope no one has their hopes up (I usually try and look forward to this stuff, but IC is going to put the nail in the coffin for pvp).

In Imperial city districts, when you die you can instantly spawn, jump out of the spawn zone and be right back in the fight. Which is amazing, its constant pvp and its really fun. But that is in a perfect world, well, the un-populated pts where there was no where near enough people to lag the server.

In reality, there will be a massive amount of players constantly spawning and running to fight, which will probably be 5x the amount of players for each faction. Every seasoned PvPers knows what I'm about to say/type next... With the massive amount of players constantly running into a fight, the latency is going to be a complete sh*t show, even worse then how it is now. It doesn't matter if there are zergs there, it doesnt matter if everyone is solo. All the players + all the NPC's + close quarters combat = you paid money to play an unplayable expansion.

Imperial city is going to be a complete mess, I hope everyone enjoyed it on the PTS because its going to be nothing, and I mean nothing like how it is on the PTS. The only good thing about this is that the lag in IC and Cyrodiil wont effect each other, though I'm sure ZoS will find a way to mess that up.

I completely agree with you except for the fact that you think instant respawn is amazing in a perfect world. Instant respawn is crap and Call of DUty like. Instant access from home base to each district is also crap.
Should have been, respawn in your base, and go through the sewers to get back to the districts

I, and many others enjoyed it because its instant combat, and its never horse riding (or stuck in combat) simulator.

It's not instant combat, it's instant "I killed you but you're back in 5 sec wow your death is meaningless"

bosmern_ESO · August 2015

imredneckson wrote: »

I hope you're wrong buddy I really do

Believe me, I really hope I am as well.

Psilent · August 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Here's whats going to happen in IC, and its not happy so I hope no one has their hopes up (I usually try and look forward to this stuff, but IC is going to put the nail in the coffin for pvp).

In Imperial city districts, when you die you can instantly spawn, jump out of the spawn zone and be right back in the fight. Which is amazing, its constant pvp and its really fun. But that is in a perfect world, well, the un-populated pts where there was no where near enough people to lag the server.

In reality, there will be a massive amount of players constantly spawning and running to fight, which will probably be 5x the amount of players for each faction. Every seasoned PvPers knows what I'm about to say/type next... With the massive amount of players constantly running into a fight, the latency is going to be a complete sh*t show, even worse then how it is now. It doesn't matter if there are zergs there, it doesnt matter if everyone is solo. All the players + all the NPC's + close quarters combat = you paid money to play an unplayable expansion.

Imperial city is going to be a complete mess, I hope everyone enjoyed it on the PTS because its going to be nothing, and I mean nothing like how it is on the PTS. The only good thing about this is that the lag in IC and Cyrodiil wont effect each other, though I'm sure ZoS will find a way to mess that up.

I completely agree with you except for the fact that you think instant respawn is amazing in a perfect world. Instant respawn is crap and Call of DUty like. Instant access from home base to each district is also crap.
Should have been, respawn in your base, and go through the sewers to get back to the districts

I, and many others enjoyed it because its instant combat, and its never horse riding (or stuck in combat) simulator.

It's not instant combat, it's instant "I killed you but you're back in 5 sec wow your death is meaningless"

Except you will gain their Tel var stones.

Sallington · August 2015

If there's the same lag issues as live, but now we lose gear currency, it is not going to be smiles times for anyone involved.

Jules · August 2015

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

And with all the buffs zergs are getting(blanket damage nerf) it will take even longer for zerg-clusters to die... which means more purge and barrier spam, and more lag.

Which is the exact reason why AoE damage needs to increase in damage based on targets hit instead of reduce. ZoS said "we dont want to increase AoE damage based on targets hit because that will negatively effect PvE". That is probably the dumbest thing I've heard, they are afraid of changing something which will greatly benefit PvP because of PvE. Its simple Make AoE attacks increase in damage based on targets hit in PvP, leave it as is for PvE it doesnt take away from PvE and it would help PvP a lot.

If AoE increased in damage on targets in PvP everyone would spread out because if they balled up they would get destroyed, the reason why we see zerg trains of 40+ people is because if they all stack they take literally no damage. If ZoS ever wanted to fix or give a damn about PvP they would start changing how abilities work in PvP and PvE, because its obviously not working how it is currently.

And I sure am tired of playing an unplayable game.

Agreed & bolded for truth. Large group pvp is hands down, the most efficient way to
1) Earn AP
2) Not die

For the good of the game, there needs to be some hazard/some counter to this kind of play. Because people in large groups need a challenge and because people in small groups need a chance. Right now zergs are all but infallible to anything but larger zergs. Unless they're just really bad and stand there and get murdered.

Its been clear that there are two separate versions of skills needed, PVP vs PVE, for a while now. However they keep trying to maintain that tipping the balance of one will somehow not negatively affect the other. (IE: ending permablocking in cyrodiil = fu PVE tanks). In PVP, AoE's should definitely scale in a way similarly to what you said instead of the complex ways they do now. And sure, they did this with prox det, but it only scales up to 5 people for an additional 25% damage. So this did nothing to help small man overcome zerg.

Takllin · August 2015

Jules wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

And with all the buffs zergs are getting(blanket damage nerf) it will take even longer for zerg-clusters to die... which means more purge and barrier spam, and more lag.

Which is the exact reason why AoE damage needs to increase in damage based on targets hit instead of reduce. ZoS said "we dont want to increase AoE damage based on targets hit because that will negatively effect PvE". That is probably the dumbest thing I've heard, they are afraid of changing something which will greatly benefit PvP because of PvE. Its simple Make AoE attacks increase in damage based on targets hit in PvP, leave it as is for PvE it doesnt take away from PvE and it would help PvP a lot.

If AoE increased in damage on targets in PvP everyone would spread out because if they balled up they would get destroyed, the reason why we see zerg trains of 40+ people is because if they all stack they take literally no damage. If ZoS ever wanted to fix or give a damn about PvP they would start changing how abilities work in PvP and PvE, because its obviously not working how it is currently.

And I sure am tired of playing an unplayable game.

Agreed & bolded for truth. Large group pvp is hands down, the most efficient way to
1) Earn AP
2) Not die

For the good of the game, there needs to be some hazard/some counter to this kind of play. Because people in large groups need a challenge and because people in small groups need a chance. Right now zergs are all but infallible to anything but larger zergs. Unless they're just really bad and stand there and get murdered.

Its been clear that there are two separate versions of skills needed, PVP vs PVE, for a while now. However they keep trying to maintain that tipping the balance of one will somehow not negatively affect the other. (IE: ending permablocking in cyrodiil = fu PVE tanks). In PVP, AoE's should definitely scale in a way similarly to what you said instead of the complex ways they do now. And sure, they did this with prox det, but it only scales up to 5 people for an additional 25% damage. So this did nothing to help small man overcome zerg.

Bring back dynamic ulti gain.
Make AoE scale with targets hit.
Revert Proxy Det or make it scale higher than it does now to deal more damage. Currently they are nerfing it by ~3% before Battle Spirit.

Also the permablocking was actually a PvE thing that spilled into PvP. They've said they didn't like that tanks could just permablock their way through dungeons.

Oh and fix dat lag.

Jules · August 2015

Takllin wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

And with all the buffs zergs are getting(blanket damage nerf) it will take even longer for zerg-clusters to die... which means more purge and barrier spam, and more lag.

Which is the exact reason why AoE damage needs to increase in damage based on targets hit instead of reduce. ZoS said "we dont want to increase AoE damage based on targets hit because that will negatively effect PvE". That is probably the dumbest thing I've heard, they are afraid of changing something which will greatly benefit PvP because of PvE. Its simple Make AoE attacks increase in damage based on targets hit in PvP, leave it as is for PvE it doesnt take away from PvE and it would help PvP a lot.

If AoE increased in damage on targets in PvP everyone would spread out because if they balled up they would get destroyed, the reason why we see zerg trains of 40+ people is because if they all stack they take literally no damage. If ZoS ever wanted to fix or give a damn about PvP they would start changing how abilities work in PvP and PvE, because its obviously not working how it is currently.

And I sure am tired of playing an unplayable game.

Agreed & bolded for truth. Large group pvp is hands down, the most efficient way to
1) Earn AP
2) Not die

For the good of the game, there needs to be some hazard/some counter to this kind of play. Because people in large groups need a challenge and because people in small groups need a chance. Right now zergs are all but infallible to anything but larger zergs. Unless they're just really bad and stand there and get murdered.

Its been clear that there are two separate versions of skills needed, PVP vs PVE, for a while now. However they keep trying to maintain that tipping the balance of one will somehow not negatively affect the other. (IE: ending permablocking in cyrodiil = fu PVE tanks). In PVP, AoE's should definitely scale in a way similarly to what you said instead of the complex ways they do now. And sure, they did this with prox det, but it only scales up to 5 people for an additional 25% damage. So this did nothing to help small man overcome zerg.

Bring back dynamic ulti gain.
Make AoE scale with targets hit.
Revert Proxy Det or make it scale higher than it does now to deal more damage. Currently they are nerfing it by ~3% before Battle Spirit.

Yes to all that, ideally.

But like, idgaf if they dont want it to scale upwards to 24 people. Cause they'll be resistant to that I think. At the absolute very least, stop the nonsense of "6 people get 100%.....ectecetc" and just cut it at 24 get 100%, everyone else lives to tell another day.

bosmern_ESO · August 2015

Takllin wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

And with all the buffs zergs are getting(blanket damage nerf) it will take even longer for zerg-clusters to die... which means more purge and barrier spam, and more lag.

Which is the exact reason why AoE damage needs to increase in damage based on targets hit instead of reduce. ZoS said "we dont want to increase AoE damage based on targets hit because that will negatively effect PvE". That is probably the dumbest thing I've heard, they are afraid of changing something which will greatly benefit PvP because of PvE. Its simple Make AoE attacks increase in damage based on targets hit in PvP, leave it as is for PvE it doesnt take away from PvE and it would help PvP a lot.

If AoE increased in damage on targets in PvP everyone would spread out because if they balled up they would get destroyed, the reason why we see zerg trains of 40+ people is because if they all stack they take literally no damage. If ZoS ever wanted to fix or give a damn about PvP they would start changing how abilities work in PvP and PvE, because its obviously not working how it is currently.

And I sure am tired of playing an unplayable game.

Agreed & bolded for truth. Large group pvp is hands down, the most efficient way to
1) Earn AP
2) Not die

For the good of the game, there needs to be some hazard/some counter to this kind of play. Because people in large groups need a challenge and because people in small groups need a chance. Right now zergs are all but infallible to anything but larger zergs. Unless they're just really bad and stand there and get murdered.

Its been clear that there are two separate versions of skills needed, PVP vs PVE, for a while now. However they keep trying to maintain that tipping the balance of one will somehow not negatively affect the other. (IE: ending permablocking in cyrodiil = fu PVE tanks). In PVP, AoE's should definitely scale in a way similarly to what you said instead of the complex ways they do now. And sure, they did this with prox det, but it only scales up to 5 people for an additional 25% damage. So this did nothing to help small man overcome zerg.

Bring back dynamic ulti gain.
Make AoE scale with targets hit.
Revert Proxy Det or make it scale higher than it does now to deal more damage. Currently they are nerfing it by ~3% before Battle Spirit.

Also the permablocking was actually a PvE thing that spilled into PvP. They've said they didn't like that tanks could just permablock their way through dungeons.

Oh and fix dat lag.

Also bring back the purge bug.

When it was bugged it made group fights a lot more of a challenge, you had to think when you purge and couldn't have 2 people just running around only casting purge making it impossible to debuff the group. It brought some kind of layer/ thought process to group fights. (do we purge meat bag/fire ballista and possibly die or try and muscle through it with our healers doing a lot less healing).

I'd much prefer the purge bug over people just running around casting AoE while being immune to any debuff that could aid smaller groups in wiping a 40+ zerg train.

krim · August 2015

I liked it better when the crutch to big groups was sorcs. They have 6 sorcs well we need 7!!!!!. I remember that one day I had like a 8 man group with 6 sorcs. I had 3 of them just anti negating. They could rework negate back into the game I think people forgot how crucial that ulti was.

FENGRUSH · August 2015

krim wrote: »

I liked it better when the crutch to big groups was sorcs. They have 6 sorcs well we need 7!!!!!. I remember that one day I had like a 8 man group with 6 sorcs. I had 3 of them just anti negating. They could rework negate back into the game I think people forgot how crucial that ulti was.

Well placed area of denial ults used to be pretty insane in turning a fight in a moments notice. Now all that matter is if youre sticking with the crown and how many people are healing/ensuring a barrier comes at the right time.

Akinos · August 2015

krim wrote: »

I liked it better when the crutch to big groups was sorcs. They have 6 sorcs well we need 7!!!!!. I remember that one day I had like a 8 man group with 6 sorcs. I had 3 of them just anti negating. They could rework negate back into the game I think people forgot how crucial that ulti was.

A well placed negate can still destroy any group in a chokepoint or a stand still, such as on a flag. People were too dependant on it to win fights though imo, and it was way to spammable.

Ishammael · August 2015

Akinos wrote: »

krim wrote: »

I liked it better when the crutch to big groups was sorcs. They have 6 sorcs well we need 7!!!!!. I remember that one day I had like a 8 man group with 6 sorcs. I had 3 of them just anti negating. They could rework negate back into the game I think people forgot how crucial that ulti was.

A well placed negate can still destroy any group in a chokepoint or a stand still, such as on a flag. People were too dependant on it to win fights though imo, and it was way to spammable.

It needed to be toned down just a little bit -- agreed we were too dependent. But the meta has shifted to Barrier spam, which isn't a whole lot better. Basically the ultimates needed a balance pass, not huge nerfs, so that they all retain effectiveness.

FENGRUSH · August 2015

Agree with you both - would like to see less focus on a group just needing to stay together and actually worrying about walking into something. Theres like 2 places you can actually hit a group with significant amount of siege but you also need burst group a sizeable group as well.

People should not be able to just move freely and be immune to all movements and purge off all negative effects at a whim. Positioning its completely devalued because of this and strategy is nearly nonexistant - barriers and initiation are all that matters and its overly simple. Not to mention, small number rarely have the ability to make any impact on a fight - no chance against the better groups that have this down pat.

krim · August 2015

Akinos wrote: »

krim wrote: »

I liked it better when the crutch to big groups was sorcs. They have 6 sorcs well we need 7!!!!!. I remember that one day I had like a 8 man group with 6 sorcs. I had 3 of them just anti negating. They could rework negate back into the game I think people forgot how crucial that ulti was.

A well placed negate can still destroy any group in a chokepoint or a stand still, such as on a flag. People were too dependant on it to win fights though imo, and it was way to spammable.

Ishammael wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

krim wrote: »

I liked it better when the crutch to big groups was sorcs. They have 6 sorcs well we need 7!!!!!. I remember that one day I had like a 8 man group with 6 sorcs. I had 3 of them just anti negating. They could rework negate back into the game I think people forgot how crucial that ulti was.

A well placed negate can still destroy any group in a chokepoint or a stand still, such as on a flag. People were too dependant on it to win fights though imo, and it was way to spammable.

It needed to be toned down just a little bit -- agreed we were too dependent. But the meta has shifted to Barrier spam, which isn't a whole lot better. Basically the ultimates needed a balance pass, not huge nerfs, so that they all retain effectiveness.

I don't think dependent is the right word. We abused it just like we abused vampire ult cost and other things. It should have been balanced/nerfed slightly.

Cinbri · August 2015

I guess thats how my IC farming will looks like, zergs will remind me of my favorite tes part:

Kalfis · August 2015

Not enough DC, getting farmed repeatably.........

What else is new.

FireCowCommando · August 2015

I am not sure why they didnt stick to having the ability to respawn tied to the ownership of a district. It would have been more enjoyable to fight over control of the district in a more meaningful way.

azoriangaming · August 2015

Cinbri wrote: »

I guess thats how my IC farming will looks like, zergs will remind me of my favorite tes part:

haha