WHY no CP CAP yet? The gap creates great imbalance in the game PvP+PvE, more and more quit the game

trimsic_ESO · August 2015

twistedmonk wrote: »

There should be no cap to Champion Points.

If a player wants to spend time grinding CP or is dedicated and played since launch. Let them. You're only talking what? less than 1% of the total population?

Then 99% of the total population will appreciate it? Let's do it!

DaveMoeDee · August 2015

Jeckll wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Global CP caps are totally stupid.

Just make CP capped in PvP only. That's the only place where it's an issue.

In PvE its also an issue, lol. Its a dps increase of 8k+ from 0 to around 500 CP.

Is there a tangible benefit from topping the leaderboards? Do you get some kind of gear?

Yes top groups on the leaderboards get yellow gear.

They were talking about top positions in Trial Leaderboards. We dont get yellow gear for being good at it.
But for @DaveMoeDee - it's our form of competition and saying it doesnt have to be fair because you dont get anything for it is stupid. With that logic, for any board game you ever played as a kid, cheating is okay because you didnt get anything for winning. If people realise CP are broken for PvP competition, it's clearly also that way for PvE competition.

Did I say all of that? I asked a legitimate question and, fortunately, someone else answered the question.

As far as your position on the leaderboard, you are mostly talking about bragging rights. While I respect those who play to win, as I have a hard time play basketball 'just for fun', I would prefer to have the CP system that almost all players can enjoy rather than to remove it for the sake of a fraction of CP-challenged players fighting to be at the top of the leaderboards.

The problem with designing for the leaderboards is that, by definition, only a few players can be at the top.

In general, I personally don't want to reduce the RPG/character development aspect for the sake of leaderboards.

Also, what does this have to do with 'fairness'? There is nothing unfair in people getting character development benefits from playing more. You are arguing about subjective design decisions. It has nothing to do with 'fairness' since we all play with the same rules.

FearlessOne_2014 · August 2015

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Jeckll wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Global CP caps are totally stupid.

Just make CP capped in PvP only. That's the only place where it's an issue.

In PvE its also an issue, lol. Its a dps increase of 8k+ from 0 to around 500 CP.

Is there a tangible benefit from topping the leaderboards? Do you get some kind of gear?

Yes top groups on the leaderboards get yellow gear.

They were talking about top positions in Trial Leaderboards. We dont get yellow gear for being good at it.
But for @DaveMoeDee - it's our form of competition and saying it doesnt have to be fair because you dont get anything for it is stupid. With that logic, for any board game you ever played as a kid, cheating is okay because you didnt get anything for winning. If people realise CP are broken for PvP competition, it's clearly also that way for PvE competition.

Did I say all of that? I asked a legitimate question and, fortunately, someone else answered the question.

As far as your position on the leaderboard, you are mostly talking about bragging rights. While I respect those who play to win, as I have a hard time play basketball 'just for fun', I would prefer to have the CP system that almost all players can enjoy rather than to remove it for the sake of a fraction of CP-challenged players fighting to be at the top of the leaderboards.

The problem with designing for the leaderboards is that, by definition, only a few players can be at the top.

In general, I personally don't want to reduce the RPG/character development aspect for the sake of leaderboards.

Also, what does this have to do with 'fairness'? There is nothing unfair in people getting character development benefits from playing more. You are arguing about subjective design decisions. It has nothing to do with 'fairness' since we all play with the same rules.

Which is why this game will always have a barebones population until the CP grinders that are left in the game finally quit. Sorry to say this but if ZOS want to retain newbros in the game and get more people to return to game why something must be done much sooner than later. Or else this game will be done.

DaveMoeDee · August 2015

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Jeckll wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Global CP caps are totally stupid.

Just make CP capped in PvP only. That's the only place where it's an issue.

In PvE its also an issue, lol. Its a dps increase of 8k+ from 0 to around 500 CP.

Is there a tangible benefit from topping the leaderboards? Do you get some kind of gear?

Yes top groups on the leaderboards get yellow gear.

They were talking about top positions in Trial Leaderboards. We dont get yellow gear for being good at it.
But for @DaveMoeDee - it's our form of competition and saying it doesnt have to be fair because you dont get anything for it is stupid. With that logic, for any board game you ever played as a kid, cheating is okay because you didnt get anything for winning. If people realise CP are broken for PvP competition, it's clearly also that way for PvE competition.

Did I say all of that? I asked a legitimate question and, fortunately, someone else answered the question.

As far as your position on the leaderboard, you are mostly talking about bragging rights. While I respect those who play to win, as I have a hard time play basketball 'just for fun', I would prefer to have the CP system that almost all players can enjoy rather than to remove it for the sake of a fraction of CP-challenged players fighting to be at the top of the leaderboards.

The problem with designing for the leaderboards is that, by definition, only a few players can be at the top.

In general, I personally don't want to reduce the RPG/character development aspect for the sake of leaderboards.

Also, what does this have to do with 'fairness'? There is nothing unfair in people getting character development benefits from playing more. You are arguing about subjective design decisions. It has nothing to do with 'fairness' since we all play with the same rules.

Which is why this game will always have a barebones population until the CP grinders that are left in the game finally quit. Sorry to say this but if ZOS want to retain newbros in the game and get more people to return to game why something must be done much sooner than later. Or else this game will be done.

I doubt most ESO players care about the people with high CP.

CaptainObvious · August 2015

Welcome to the arms proliferation race.

Most people won't care unless they get to the point where they care about either getting steamrolled in PvP or leader boards (which will be a good long while for most).

Get ready for the other side of the equation where people stop playing because they don't advance anymore.

Inevitably there was going to be whining after the first person reaches 3600 CP of where do they go from here. Now there will be a nice whining terrace based on DLC intervals.

F7sus4 · August 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

When the Champion system was being tested on the PTS last January/February and everyone had all 3.6k CPs available, you could solo vDSA with crappy template gear. CP does affect PvE balance quite a lot.

That's the biggest BS I've ever heard of.

Too many people forget CP bonuses are 15/25% when maxed. Not ducking 200/300%. So to be straight, if you're a pug - getting 10000 DMG versus getting 12500 DMG on your buttock, won't save you anyway. And if you're pro, you'll recover even if it was 15000 DMG. Or maybe getting 1250 healing tick would save you instead of just having 1000 one? How many times you actually were at the missing 250HP that allowed you to survive? Two times in a year.

When there was no CP, it was class balance that killed you. Afterwards, it was lag, when the servers became overloaded. And now it's CP. I'd highly suggest starting with cognitive egocentrism and lack-of-introspection bias eradication instead.

Your priorities to be a good player are as following:
1. Knowing the mechanics
2. Theorycrafting
3. Rotation
4. Resource management
5. Once again, all of the above combined
6. CP, eventually (to fine-tune all of the above)

Alcast · August 2015

F7sus4 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

When the Champion system was being tested on the PTS last January/February and everyone had all 3.6k CPs available, you could solo vDSA with crappy template gear. CP does affect PvE balance quite a lot.

That's the biggest BS I've ever heard of.

Too many people forget CP bonuses are 15/25% when maxed. Not ducking 200/300%. So to be straight, if you're a pug - getting 10000 DMG versus getting 12500 DMG on your buttock, won't save you anyway. And if you're pro, you'll recover even if it was 15000 DMG. Or maybe getting 1250 healing tick would save you instead of just having 1000 one? How many times you actually were at the missing 250HP that allowed you to survive? Two times in a year.

Wrong.

You also gain resources which also increase your damage. Also, you can buff your overall dmg + crit dmg + elemental damage etc...its far more than your 10k vs 12,5k.

But w/e, some people will never realize it. Sometimes I wonder why I keep trying to explain the same *** over and over...lul

F7sus4 · August 2015

Yes, +15 Magicka* per 3 CPs total is a lot, really. OP boost.

Laggus · August 2015

[/quote]
When there was no CP, it was class balance that killed you. Afterwards, it was lag, when the servers became overloaded. And now it's CP. I'd highly suggest starting with cognitive egocentrism and lack-of-introspection bias eradication instead.
[/quote]

Can I have that in l33t speak please! Lots of big words in there, like marmalade.

caperon · August 2015

F7sus4 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

When the Champion system was being tested on the PTS last January/February and everyone had all 3.6k CPs available, you could solo vDSA with crappy template gear. CP does affect PvE balance quite a lot.

That's the biggest BS I've ever heard of.

Too many people forget CP bonuses are 15/25% when maxed. Not ducking 200/300%. So to be straight, if you're a pug - getting 10000 DMG versus getting 12500 DMG on your buttock, won't save you anyway. And if you're pro, you'll recover even if it was 15000 DMG. Or maybe getting 1250 healing tick would save you instead of just having 1000 one? How many times you actually were at the missing 250HP that allowed you to survive? Two times in a year.

When there was no CP, it was class balance that killed you. Afterwards, it was lag, when the servers became overloaded. And now it's CP. I'd highly suggest starting with cognitive egocentrism and lack-of-introspection bias eradication instead.

Your priorities to be a good player are as following:
1. Knowing the mechanics
2. Theorycrafting
3. Rotation
4. Resource management
5. Once again, all of the above combined
6. CP, eventually (to fine-tune all of the above)

There is a post of a player named Vashna with a video showing him soloing last boss of vDSA. At the moment he claimed having around 700 CP. You fail to understand the multiplicative nature of the champion point system and how exponentially increases our power.

F7sus4 · August 2015

caperon wrote: »

There is a post of a player named Vashna with a video showing him soloing last boss of vDSA. At the moment he claimed having around 700 CP. You fail to understand the multiplicative nature of the champion point system and how exponentially increases our power.

There's no multiplication, it's a typical ctg-shaped curve. Your overall power output gain starts to continuously and increasingly slow down to almost flat line around 300-360 CP threshold, and reaching the biggest growing peak around just 150-200CP. Therefore, 300CP player is significantly more powerful than 0CP player, but not necessarily 1300CP player vs 1000CP player.

Also, keep in mind that most of the bonuses (for example +25% Elemental Damage) are directly negated by their opposite passives (here: -25% Elemental Damage). In the end, most of possible damage passives become countered by mirror passives on enemies' side, leaving players with more cosmetic bonuses that are not necessarily directly complementing and boosting their performance and abilities, apart from survivability. Actually, average 1000CP per player meta-game would create far more defensive environment than offensive one.

The DPS-damage power output was already discussed in here.

caperon · August 2015

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/194680/legendary-solo-video-vashna-vs-hiath-vdsa-level-10/p1

Watch the video and then come back telling me that cp means only a 25% power increase

F7sus4 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

When the Champion system was being tested on the PTS last January/February and everyone had all 3.6k CPs available, you could solo vDSA with crappy template gear. CP does affect PvE balance quite a lot.

That's the biggest BS I've ever heard of.

caperon · August 2015

...

F7sus4 · August 2015

Yes, I know the video. It doesn't prove anything related to CPs topic, however, and especially not to the CP gap examples that were discussed. Anyway, cheers for sharing.

BalticBlues · September 2015

What already was bad got worse with patch 2.1.4

Even though new players in PVP already are helpless against V14 players with their unreachable gear and CPs, the enchantments of new players now even have been nerfed and V14 gear has been buffed:

ZOS Patch 2.1.4 wrote:

Decreased Health, Magicka, and Stamina enchantments at lower levels. At VR14, these items now provide about 4% more.

Decreased resistances to specific elements, such as fire damage, at lower levels. At higher levels, they were increased by up to 25% at VR14.

Decreased the proc damage (such as Fiery Weapon) at low levels, and increased by up to 7% at VR14.

Decreased the cost reduction at lower levels, though values remain largely unchanged for VR14 player characters.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2200164/#Comment_2200164

Why ZOS wants new players to suffer even more in PVP?

James-Wayne · September 2015

I'm a long time player since before launch and have only 117CP but I do O-K, not huge DPS numbers but not unplayable. I do have a family and long job hours thou which doesn't help me stay competitve to players who have the time to play more then 2 hours per day every day. I do see eventually getting to a point where I will play less in Veteran Content and simply create another new character to enjoy the game again but not yet.