It makes sense that Spell Symmetry gives more magicka since you're sacrificing health and only getting 1 resource back. Dark Deal/Exchange is sacrificing 1 resource for 2 resources back. It's a shame it can't crit though that I know of anyway.

If you chain cast it, it has slower regeneration than the equivalent on live, and in many ways just as inconvenient. I only use it when away from combat or pillar humping - awful 'fix' to the skill imo.

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Question: what do sorcerers really need Dark Deal / Exchange / Conversion to do in 1.7? Because I get the feeling it is not the same for all sorcerers. Stamina builds need stamina recovery first and a decent heal second (now we have access to vigour), magicka I think need the heal first and are not too fussed by the magicka recovery (lots of ways to recover magicka)... but as I don't play magicka that is just a guess.

The reason I ask is that I feel zos do not want to give sorcerers something too powerful - and combining a resource recovery with health recovery is potentially powerful... but because it does both it ends up being laughably weak in both. If the skill and morphs just did one each, then zos could significantly improve the effectiveness of them to make the viable / useful.

Just what is supposed to do. A templar Breathe of Life is goes like bam and you get a powerful heal that can hit up to 3 guys or even restore a bunch of magicka. we're typically given access to 2 types of abilities, a powerful class variant or a less powerful non class ability. Hardened ward is powerful, but if you don't have it you can choose Harness and bone shield, neither being as good, but still being possible. It should just do what if needs to do, none of this farting around maybe we'll try a little bit of this nonsense.

Dracane wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Question: what do sorcerers really need Dark Deal / Exchange / Conversion to do in 1.7? Because I get the feeling it is not the same for all sorcerers. Stamina builds need stamina recovery first and a decent heal second (now we have access to vigour), magicka I think need the heal first and are not too fussed by the magicka recovery (lots of ways to recover magicka)... but as I don't play magicka that is just a guess.

The reason I ask is that I feel zos do not want to give sorcerers something too powerful - and combining a resource recovery with health recovery is potentially powerful... but because it does both it ends up being laughably weak in both. If the skill and morphs just did one each, then zos could significantly improve the effectiveness of them to make the viable / useful.

I'm having the same impression. I feel like ZoS keeps Sorcerer abilities intentionally weak.
As it stands now, we have only 2 abilities that aren't underwhelming. Crystal Fragments and Hardened Ward.
Everything is else is pretty underwhelming and somehow limited by limitations. Both Sorcerer specs need love in PvE and also in pvp actually, especially stamina as it seems.

But we're not going to get anything, because the developers seem to be afraid of something.

I disagree. Hardened ward is bleeding a whole lot more now and Crystal frags is pretty poop. Even Dark flare spamming does more DPS than the crystal frags rotation. Which is stupid because that skill was designed to de-buff healing recieved as its primary use. -.-

Zlater wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Question: what do sorcerers really need Dark Deal / Exchange / Conversion to do in 1.7? Because I get the feeling it is not the same for all sorcerers. Stamina builds need stamina recovery first and a decent heal second (now we have access to vigour), magicka I think need the heal first and are not too fussed by the magicka recovery (lots of ways to recover magicka)... but as I don't play magicka that is just a guess.

The reason I ask is that I feel zos do not want to give sorcerers something too powerful - and combining a resource recovery with health recovery is potentially powerful... but because it does both it ends up being laughably weak in both. If the skill and morphs just did one each, then zos could significantly improve the effectiveness of them to make the viable / useful.

Just what is supposed to do. A templar Breathe of Life is goes like bam and you get a powerful heal that can hit up to 3 guys or even restore a bunch of magicka. we're typically given access to 2 types of abilities, a powerful class variant or a less powerful non class ability. Hardened ward is powerful, but if you don't have it you can choose Harness and bone shield, neither being as good, but still being possible. It should just do what if needs to do, none of this farting around maybe we'll try a little bit of this nonsense.

Dracane wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Question: what do sorcerers really need Dark Deal / Exchange / Conversion to do in 1.7? Because I get the feeling it is not the same for all sorcerers. Stamina builds need stamina recovery first and a decent heal second (now we have access to vigour), magicka I think need the heal first and are not too fussed by the magicka recovery (lots of ways to recover magicka)... but as I don't play magicka that is just a guess.

The reason I ask is that I feel zos do not want to give sorcerers something too powerful - and combining a resource recovery with health recovery is potentially powerful... but because it does both it ends up being laughably weak in both. If the skill and morphs just did one each, then zos could significantly improve the effectiveness of them to make the viable / useful.

I'm having the same impression. I feel like ZoS keeps Sorcerer abilities intentionally weak.
As it stands now, we have only 2 abilities that aren't underwhelming. Crystal Fragments and Hardened Ward.
Everything is else is pretty underwhelming and somehow limited by limitations. Both Sorcerer specs need love in PvE and also in pvp actually, especially stamina as it seems.

But we're not going to get anything, because the developers seem to be afraid of something.

I disagree. Hardened ward is bleeding a whole lot more now and Crystal frags is pretty poop. Even Dark flare spamming does more DPS than the crystal frags rotation. Which is stupid because that skill was designed to de-buff healing recieved as its primary use. -.-

If I say that Hardened Ward is not that good on its own and that Crystal frags is easy to counter, then I'm going to be a QQ baby again So you'll have to say it for me.

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@Zlater I have no idea what your post is trying to say. That dark deal is currently okay like Breath of Life or that my statement was correct. Sorry, could you clarify please.

Dark deal sucks, that's what I'm saying. If you have 40k in stam, you'll need to channel the ability about 20 times to get your stamina back, nobody wants to do that -.- and nobody is going to give you 20seconds in battle to use it.

Dracane wrote: »

Zlater wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Question: what do sorcerers really need Dark Deal / Exchange / Conversion to do in 1.7? Because I get the feeling it is not the same for all sorcerers. Stamina builds need stamina recovery first and a decent heal second (now we have access to vigour), magicka I think need the heal first and are not too fussed by the magicka recovery (lots of ways to recover magicka)... but as I don't play magicka that is just a guess.

The reason I ask is that I feel zos do not want to give sorcerers something too powerful - and combining a resource recovery with health recovery is potentially powerful... but because it does both it ends up being laughably weak in both. If the skill and morphs just did one each, then zos could significantly improve the effectiveness of them to make the viable / useful.

Just what is supposed to do. A templar Breathe of Life is goes like bam and you get a powerful heal that can hit up to 3 guys or even restore a bunch of magicka. we're typically given access to 2 types of abilities, a powerful class variant or a less powerful non class ability. Hardened ward is powerful, but if you don't have it you can choose Harness and bone shield, neither being as good, but still being possible. It should just do what if needs to do, none of this farting around maybe we'll try a little bit of this nonsense.

Dracane wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Question: what do sorcerers really need Dark Deal / Exchange / Conversion to do in 1.7? Because I get the feeling it is not the same for all sorcerers. Stamina builds need stamina recovery first and a decent heal second (now we have access to vigour), magicka I think need the heal first and are not too fussed by the magicka recovery (lots of ways to recover magicka)... but as I don't play magicka that is just a guess.

The reason I ask is that I feel zos do not want to give sorcerers something too powerful - and combining a resource recovery with health recovery is potentially powerful... but because it does both it ends up being laughably weak in both. If the skill and morphs just did one each, then zos could significantly improve the effectiveness of them to make the viable / useful.

I'm having the same impression. I feel like ZoS keeps Sorcerer abilities intentionally weak.
As it stands now, we have only 2 abilities that aren't underwhelming. Crystal Fragments and Hardened Ward.
Everything is else is pretty underwhelming and somehow limited by limitations. Both Sorcerer specs need love in PvE and also in pvp actually, especially stamina as it seems.

But we're not going to get anything, because the developers seem to be afraid of something.

I disagree. Hardened ward is bleeding a whole lot more now and Crystal frags is pretty poop. Even Dark flare spamming does more DPS than the crystal frags rotation. Which is stupid because that skill was designed to de-buff healing recieved as its primary use. -.-

If I say that Hardened Ward is not that good on its own and that Crystal frags is easy to counter, then I'm going to be a QQ baby again So you'll have to say it for me.

Hardened Ward vanishes off your char now. If you use it with harness magicka it's ok, but every Nb out there is running the shield breaker set, haha I guess so am I now XD so don't waste your time with it, I don't know what the spaghetti is going through the devs minds, I used to really enjoy every update, now they all suck. Your crystal shards isn't going to land on a DK or any tank or player running posture, it'll hit you instead, it won't land on a Nb, because they've cloaked before you can finish a second light attack, so that's 90% of the PvP population discluded. Maybe we'll hit another sorc though, cause no one is bolting around anymore.

On a side note, im more worried about slow and boring combat in 1.7 then anything. Dmg is too low and combat is too forgiving. Its too fast on live, yes, but its too slow on pts!