Dark Deal

Rayste · August 2015

Feels a bit clunky with the cast time and heals for around 2k. If it healed for ALOT more it might be useful. Any thoughts?

Alcast · August 2015

How much stamina does it restore? I heard it is pretty good for tanking sorcs because you can blockcast it and with the recent change to stamina recovery that might be pretty darn useful

Ace_SiN · August 2015

It feels VERY clunky.. You get the heal like .5 secs after the cast.

Erock25 · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

How much stamina does it restore? I heard it is pretty good for tanking sorcs because you can blockcast it and with the recent change to stamina recovery that might be pretty darn useful

You can not block cast it as it has a 1 second cast time. On my magicka Sorc it seems to cost 1500 magicka (seems to be effected by cost reduction glyphs) and restores around 2k hp and 2k stamina. Numbers may be off but I know it cost less magicka than the stamina it restores.

Alcast · August 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

How much stamina does it restore? I heard it is pretty good for tanking sorcs because you can blockcast it and with the recent change to stamina recovery that might be pretty darn useful

You can not block cast it as it has a 1 second cast time. On my magicka Sorc it seems to cost 1500 magicka (seems to be effected by cost reduction glyphs) and restores around 2k hp and 2k stamina. Numbers may be off but I know it cost less magicka than the stamina it restores.

Tho iirc i saw a video of a dude blockcasting it? cant find the vid anymore tho

Rayste · August 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

How much stamina does it restore? I heard it is pretty good for tanking sorcs because you can blockcast it and with the recent change to stamina recovery that might be pretty darn useful

You can not block cast it as it has a 1 second cast time. On my magicka Sorc it seems to cost 1500 magicka (seems to be effected by cost reduction glyphs) and restores around 2k hp and 2k stamina. Numbers may be off but I know it cost less magicka than the stamina it restores.

I was messing around with it on the PTS. You can clip it with a shield but not a dodge roll if memory serves. Yes, it restores 2k stamina as well. Seems underwhelming BUT has the potential to be sorcs go to CLASS heal. This needs a pretty heavy handed buff.

In it's current state, I can see how this might be useful for a tank? maybe?

Ahzek · August 2015

It restores 12% HP and stam. In pvp that obv becomes only 6% hp. Not worth it as a heal with cast time (which cna lead to bashes) imo.

Dracane · August 2015

Dark Conversation has fix values now, no scaled values anymore

It will always restore the same amount, no matter how much of that ressource you have.

Dark Deal is much better than the old Dark Deal in my opinion. Even though I wish, it would restore ressources a bit faster or differently. But Dark Exchange is as good as useless now, even equilibrium restores more Magicka and we all know, how weak Equilibrium is.

nun_nonrb19_ESO · August 2015

I also think that dark exchange needs some tweaking. I used to use that skill to recover magika on the middle of a battle and sometimes to keep myself alive. The way it works now I hardly get any mana and not very good to keep myself alive while using it. Because while your using the skill you can't do anything else so you are vulnerable during that time frame.
I kinda like the new animation and all but the wait it takes for the resources to come and the quantity you get blows it.

ToRelax · August 2015

I think it would be useful in some builds and situations, though not as a heal, only to restore stamina or magicka.
The values are fixed now, sadly, though using cost reduction glyphs, the conversion rate is very good. And you can still just cast it several times in a row to get about the same effect as the old version, now without slowing movement as much.
When you cast it while blocking, it will break the block and be automatically "block cancelled" the moment the conversion happens. If you cancel it earlier, it was for nothing.

asteldian · August 2015

Currently its only real use is between combats and for tanking.

Rayste · August 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

I think it would be useful in some builds and situations, though not as a heal, only to restore stamina or magicka.
The values are fixed now, sadly, though using cost reduction glyphs, the conversion rate is very good. And you can still just cast it several times in a row to get about the same effect as the old version, now without slowing movement as much.
When you cast it while blocking, it will break the block and be automatically "block cancelled" the moment the conversion happens. If you cancel it earlier, it was for nothing.

Were any changes made? Did not read any. This skill would be worth it to? A sorc tank perhaps? Not many of those around.

Seriously, this would be an opportunity to give sorcs a nice self heal .... remove the channel time and up the heal and we have an alternative version of BOL for self only. Thoughts?

Yolokin_Swagonborn · August 2015

Cross-posting this

Heals for 1.5k in the Imperial City due to the 50% healing debuff. As it is, this skill is not useful in PvP at all. Not even a little bit.

Might be good for tanks in PvE.

Huggalump · August 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Cross-posting this

Heals for 1.5k in the Imperial City due to the 50% healing debuff. As it is, this skill is not useful in PvP at all. Not even a little bit.

Might be good for tanks in PvE.

yeah that's what I was noticing in IC. It's not even worth the cast time.

Would we be okay with it taking double the mana cost but restoring double the resources?

Rayste · August 2015

Huggalump wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Cross-posting this

Heals for 1.5k in the Imperial City due to the 50% healing debuff. As it is, this skill is not useful in PvP at all. Not even a little bit.

Might be good for tanks in PvE.

yeah that's what I was noticing in IC. It's not even worth the cast time.

Would we be okay with it taking double the mana cost but restoring double the resources?

I would rather they make it instant. It is so very clunky the way it currently responds.

Anhedonie · August 2015

Rayste wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Cross-posting this

Heals for 1.5k in the Imperial City due to the 50% healing debuff. As it is, this skill is not useful in PvP at all. Not even a little bit.

Might be good for tanks in PvE.

yeah that's what I was noticing in IC. It's not even worth the cast time.

Would we be okay with it taking double the mana cost but restoring double the resources?

I would rather they make it instant. It is so very clunky the way it currently responds.

Do you feel that little templar hiding inside of you? (see Rushed Ceremony)

Rayste · August 2015

Anhedonie wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Cross-posting this

Heals for 1.5k in the Imperial City due to the 50% healing debuff. As it is, this skill is not useful in PvP at all. Not even a little bit.

Might be good for tanks in PvE.

yeah that's what I was noticing in IC. It's not even worth the cast time.

Would we be okay with it taking double the mana cost but restoring double the resources?

I would rather they make it instant. It is so very clunky the way it currently responds.

Do you feel that little templar hiding inside of you? (see Rushed Ceremony)

No doubt haha. Would be nice to have a legit sorc heal no?

Anhedonie · August 2015

Rayste wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Cross-posting this

Heals for 1.5k in the Imperial City due to the 50% healing debuff. As it is, this skill is not useful in PvP at all. Not even a little bit.

Might be good for tanks in PvE.

yeah that's what I was noticing in IC. It's not even worth the cast time.

Would we be okay with it taking double the mana cost but restoring double the resources?

I would rather they make it instant. It is so very clunky the way it currently responds.

Do you feel that little templar hiding inside of you? (see Rushed Ceremony)

No doubt haha. Would be nice to have a legit sorc heal no?

Yeah. And it shouldn't feel clunky to use.

RoyJade · August 2015

Anhedonie wrote: »

Do you feel that little templar hiding inside of you? (see Rushed Ceremony)

It was exactly what I have think

The new rushed ceremony is soo good, I would love to see a similar thing with dark deal/exchange.

olsborg · August 2015

its way too weak for pvp-land with 1 sec cast time.

Jar_Ek · August 2015

Maybe zos should just remove the heal aspect and greatly enhance the restoration aspect (or visa-versa) as currently it does such a bad job at both that nobody uses it. If it did a good job at one, maybe it would be useful...

My preference would be for it to restore resources on a set level + a % basis - so it would reduce stamina by x% of max and restore your magicka by value + x% of it's max. Thus with say 10k stamina and 30k magicka, you get a fixed return + 3:1 ratio return (with a 1:1 being the lower end cap for the ratio). This way you could have a magicka for stamina morph, a stamina for magicka morph and a lowest for health morph (or magicka for health). This would need to be instant but with a cancelable animation (ie the same as an attack ability) to be useable in combat.

Zlater · August 2015

I posted the video block casting it, It wasn't really block casting but if you use it and equilibrium you could indefinately keep your Magicka, Health and Stamina up without ever having to unclick your block.

I posted also that this ability is now really tricky to use, especially for DPS. Before you could just go and find a tree to do your business behind, after the channel you'd be up and ready to go again, I've even used it while sitting there tanking the ash titan, and the heal was enough to stay alive. Now you have to make sure your wards are up and so is block, because you dont get squat if you animation cancel and you cant rely on it inside of battle or outside, the stam/magicka recovery is VERY SMALL and not dependable, you might as well put your thumb out and hope some passing by templar gives you luminous shards.

Please Please Please make this an instant cast ability, If you make this so, suddenly all of the hurt goes away and we can live again without a templar holding our hand.

Dracane · August 2015

And also important to mention, Equilibrium restores more Magicka than Dark Exchange O.o
Equilibrium still seems to scale, while Dark Conversion and Morphs are stuck with these ugly, low values.
These values needs to scale again, or at least get reasonable values.

I always appreciated Dark Conversion for being a very fair ability. Because cost and reward used to be percentage based. Like 11% cost and 11% restore I think. I really liked it towards the end of 1.6. But why would I slot an ability, that restores less Magicka than Equilibrium AND has a cast time....

And all other class stamina restore things are blockcastable. Earthern Heart, essence drain and so on.
Can't we make Dark Conversion become instant casts ? Lower the values if you want, but make it instant at least.

Jar_Ek · August 2015

Question: what do sorcerers really need Dark Deal / Exchange / Conversion to do in 1.7? Because I get the feeling it is not the same for all sorcerers. Stamina builds need stamina recovery first and a decent heal second (now we have access to vigour), magicka I think need the heal first and are not too fussed by the magicka recovery (lots of ways to recover magicka)... but as I don't play magicka that is just a guess.

The reason I ask is that I feel zos do not want to give sorcerers something too powerful - and combining a resource recovery with health recovery is potentially powerful... but because it does both it ends up being laughably weak in both. If the skill and morphs just did one each, then zos could significantly improve the effectiveness of them to make the viable / useful.

ToRelax · August 2015

I don't think I will slot it, but I tested it out last patch, was useful sometimes. It's not the greatest spell, granted, but saying it's useless because the heal is so small seems a bit shortsighted...

Dracane · August 2015

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Question: what do sorcerers really need Dark Deal / Exchange / Conversion to do in 1.7? Because I get the feeling it is not the same for all sorcerers. Stamina builds need stamina recovery first and a decent heal second (now we have access to vigour), magicka I think need the heal first and are not too fussed by the magicka recovery (lots of ways to recover magicka)... but as I don't play magicka that is just a guess.

The reason I ask is that I feel zos do not want to give sorcerers something too powerful - and combining a resource recovery with health recovery is potentially powerful... but because it does both it ends up being laughably weak in both. If the skill and morphs just did one each, then zos could significantly improve the effectiveness of them to make the viable / useful.

I'm having the same impression. I feel like ZoS keeps Sorcerer abilities intentionally weak.
As it stands now, we have only 2 abilities that aren't underwhelming. Crystal Fragments and Hardened Ward.
Everything is else is pretty underwhelming and somehow limited by limitations. Both Sorcerer specs need love in PvE and also in pvp actually, especially stamina as it seems.

But we're not going to get anything, because the developers seem to be afraid of something.

Valrien · August 2015

@Dracane they're afraid of the community's uproar after learning that the OP Sorcerers are getting more buffs.

Dracane · August 2015

Valrien wrote: »

@Dracane they're afraid of the community's uproar after learning that the OP Sorcerers are getting more buffs.

And how about buffs, that don't affect pvp

Lightning flood was a good example.
Sorcerer has enough trash morphs available and actually trash abilities as well, to change something.

ragespell · August 2015

As a matter of fact Dark Conversion gives too little HP and magicka, being a 1 second channel.
I think it gives less than before per second.

Manoekin · August 2015

I'd be okay with the heal aspect being doubled. It's a really cheap skill, so any more healing would require significant cost increases. Cast time is necessary because of what it restores, and it shouldn't be an issue for a sorc that can gain separation from enemies (maybe not much a crushing shock spammer, but separation + LOS could work there).

ragespell · August 2015

Manoekin wrote: »

I'd be okay with the heal aspect being doubled. It's a really cheap skill, so any more healing would require significant cost increases. Cast time is necessary because of what it restores, and it shouldn't be an issue for a sorc that can gain separation from enemies (maybe not much a crushing shock spammer, but separation + LOS could work there).

It almost restore nothing magicka wise. More so for being a 1s channel.