Elder Scrolls Only, Please? :)

ADarklore · August 2015

I think a lot of people are forgetting that ESO takes places hundreds of years in the past... and like our own past, how much of what we know, or think we know about our own past, is actually true? As we have seen even in our own time, people in power seek to rewrite our history for their own agenda. It makes you wonder how much of our own past has been lost or forgotten, or perhaps rewritten many times over. So why is it not possible that some things that existed in Tamriel's ancient past have been forgotten- perhaps intentionally, or just written out of history because someone in later years doesn't agree or doesn't think it's important to note? Just because it's not mentioned in 'lore' doesn't mean that it isn't possible it existed, but became lost or was long forgotten.

Corrupted_Soul · August 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

ViciousWayz wrote: »

How are you way-shrining and why does it cost gold to cast a spell to use a way-shrine which increases if on repetition????????

I don't know about the gold cost if you're not already at a wayshrine, but the "how are you wayshrining" question is explained quite nicely by an in-game source (actually the full explanation requires you to read 2 in-game sources). Basically they only work for us because we are vestiges. To the normal denizens of Tamriel they are just shrines built at places that are considered holy or sacred for one reason or another.

As a vestige, the player has lost his original body (the original has likely rotted away, or maybe even been animated as a zombie by the worm cultists), and had it replaced with a body formed from the chaotic creatia of Oblivion. That's what makes a soul shriven. The difference between the player vestiges and normal soul shriven is that, while we lack our Anuic souls (like other soul shriven) we still somehow have some intrinsic Anuic aspect. This allows our bodies to be formed in an unflawed fashion that is indistinguishable from the original, whereas normal soul shriven form flawed bodies that are very durable, but eventually decay.

The wayshrines, being built at sacred spots, are believed to serve as conduits to Aetherius where the souls of the dead are drawn through to the afterlife. The theory goes that, due to this connection to Aetherius, if a person knew how, he could attune himself to different wayshrines, and then use them as a permanent network of portals for travel around Tamriel. In theory, though, this would only be possible for a person who is "unmoored from the mundus."

So tie that together with the explanation about what exactly the player is as a vestige, and you have your explanation for how we are wayshrining. Because we are formed from the chaotic creatia of Oblivion, and we lack our Anuic souls, while still retaining some intrinsic Anuic aspect, we are clearly unmoored from the mundus, and thus able to attune ourselves to wayshrines, and use their connections to Aetherius to travel between them. This also explains why, when we die, we always revive at the nearest wayshrine - this is our vestige bodies spontaneously reforming as our Aunic aspect reaches the nearest wayshrine and is exposed to Padomaic creatia when trying to travel to the afterlife.

To my knowledge, what the gold cost of using a wayshrine without being at one represents is not explained, nor is exactly how the use of a soul gem can cause us to reform where we died (although most likely it involves expending the power of the soul inside the soul gem to open a minor, temporary conduit to Aetherius, thus serving the same purpose as a wayshrine for a dead vestige).

Thanks for taking the time to post this - very interesting read

Zorrashi · August 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

One last thing. I am not saying that ESO should not be innovative, they should not stop trying new things and being bold. They should continue to add and make this MMO one of the best ever. ES lore will need to at some point take a back seat to this. Now if there is a genius at ZOS that can use all the ES lore and get all the MMO stuff we love to have , then I am of course all for it.

If you truly believe that ES lore "will need to" take a back seat to forcing in cookie cutter elements from other MMOs...

... then why play this MMO? Why not play another MMO that already has those elements rather than coming to this one and suggesting a weakening of its setting so that you can have access to the elements available in other MMOs that you do, presumably, already play?

If the setting itself is what brought you here, rather than it just being the newest in a long line of MMOs, then isn't protecting that setting important?

This. Just like the name says, this is Elder Scrolls first, Online after that. Cheesy way of putting it, yes, but descriptive. There is no point in ESO existing if the MMO is more important than the Elder Scrolls. Anyone can make an MMO. Only ZeniMax Media can make Elder Scrolls.

Honestly I wish this MMO had more elder scrolls elements inside it. But as it is right now ESO is just a MMO with elder scrolls paint. The elements of TES are only skin deep here.
Most of their updates are toward adding more content that leads toward MMO settings (not that they don't deserve it, those demographics deserve their day too). The Justice System was a good step yet I hardly see that content the same way as I view real "substantial" content (a new zone, new quests, etc.) and instead it just seems like a flavor addition right now (and that may change depending on how they handle the PvP-portion of the enforcer system).

Right now I feel like its 80% Traditional MMO and 20% TES.

Gidorick · August 2015

Zorrashi wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

One last thing. I am not saying that ESO should not be innovative, they should not stop trying new things and being bold. They should continue to add and make this MMO one of the best ever. ES lore will need to at some point take a back seat to this. Now if there is a genius at ZOS that can use all the ES lore and get all the MMO stuff we love to have , then I am of course all for it.

If you truly believe that ES lore "will need to" take a back seat to forcing in cookie cutter elements from other MMOs...

... then why play this MMO? Why not play another MMO that already has those elements rather than coming to this one and suggesting a weakening of its setting so that you can have access to the elements available in other MMOs that you do, presumably, already play?

If the setting itself is what brought you here, rather than it just being the newest in a long line of MMOs, then isn't protecting that setting important?

This. Just like the name says, this is Elder Scrolls first, Online after that. Cheesy way of putting it, yes, but descriptive. There is no point in ESO existing if the MMO is more important than the Elder Scrolls. Anyone can make an MMO. Only ZeniMax Media can make Elder Scrolls.

Honestly I wish this MMO had more elder scrolls elements inside it. But as it is right now ESO is just a MMO with elder scrolls paint. The elements of TES are only skin deep here.
Most of their updates are toward adding more content that leads toward MMO settings (not that they don't deserve it, those demographics deserve their day too). The Justice System was a good step yet I hardly see that content the same way as I view real "substantial" content (a new zone, new quests, etc.) and instead it just seems like a flavor addition right now (and that may change depending on how they handle the PvP-portion of the enforcer system).

Right now I feel like its 80% Traditional MMO and 20% TES.

I agree @Zorrashi... The justice system gave me so much hope for the future! So much that I'm still hopeFULL that ESO can be a true Elder Scrolls experience!

The thing about the MMO demographics being appeased is that are what... a hundred MMOs that people can play. There are five to eight Elder Scrolls games we can play and ESO is the ONLY, I repeat, the ONLY Multiplayer Elder Scrolls game available.

There's plenty out there for the MMO crowd to be appeased by. Maybe ESO should be striving to give the community something different, rather than something the same.

AngryNord · August 2015

Defilted wrote: »

I look forward to the flying mounts

You're looking forward to a dead game? Oh well, to each their own...

UltimaJoe777 · August 2015

Let's keep in mind TESV: Skyrim had a headless horseman in it. That alone sets the stage for boundaries to be crossed.

Paazhahdrimaak · August 2015

Ipsius wrote: »

I'm preordering my floating rainbow zebra unicorn pinata mount right now. It's... daedric.

What lucky. Sold out and limited time.

Messy1 · August 2015

Xendyn wrote: »

Too late
elderscrolls.net/2015/08/14/14326-tes-online-budushhee-magazina-tovarov-za-krony-patch-2-1-1/?from=eso-forum

The Scarecrow and Pumpkin polymorphs and to a slightly lesser extent, the skellie mounts just went over the line.
Big facepalm here.

THIS IS TERRIBLE AND SO UNORIGINAL. SURE THE ART LOOKS COOL, BUT COULDN'T WE GET SOME COSTUMES OR POLYMORPH'S THAT ARE LORE FRIENDLY. TES HAS SOOOOOO MUCH LORE TO DRAW FROM. MAYBE THE DWEMER HAD PUMPKINS FOR HEADS . . . WAIT NOOOOOOO!

Volkodav · August 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »

Zorrashi wrote: »

My ideal crown shop would only include lore-friendly mounts.
Senche, regular horses, camels and guar would be the merchandise. They would be reskinned forever and ever. I might budge on adding something like a bear or something but you certainly wouldn't see a flaming horse.

But now we have horses that are on fire, made of a glacier and are undead. Some of those are relatively okay seeing as how their variety has had precedence in former games (like the upcoming skeletal horse), but the rest are just there for the sake of it in the hopes of gaining cash. It is very telling on the loyalty to their own franchise when their own cash shop starts offering ludicrous mounts that do not abide by lore.

Actually,the horse with the fire is in Skyrim.Well,he is black and has red fiery eyes anyway.And there is also a icy looking Ghost horse too. I've never seen a skeleton horse in any of the ES games yet.

This guy:

http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Arvak

Actually,I had totally forgotten about Arvak.

Rosveen · August 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Let's keep in mind TESV: Skyrim had a headless horseman in it. That alone sets the stage for boundaries to be crossed.

The Headless Horseman isn't associated with a real world commercial holiday and sold for real money, it's merely a folklore motif used as an easter egg. TES games have always had lots of medieval and modern cultural references (no, it didn't start with Skyrim). However, putting them in the game solely as crown store money-makers is something entirely new. Well, maybe not entirely... The vampire lord form was distinctly Underworldy and capitalizing on the vamp craze, but at least it had a meaty DLC around it.

Iluvrien · August 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

There's plenty out there for the MMO crowd to be appeased by. Maybe ESO should be striving to give the community something different, rather than something the same.

I agree... and for the first time since B2P I actually feel sorry for the developers. I can only imagine that trying to keep the community moving in a direction defined by the ES setting is proving difficult as they have to continuously dissuade it from shooting itself in the foot (Crown Store Wish List requests I am looking at you).

Vampire-Mk2 · August 2015

While I see what your saying. I wouldn't say no to a Metal Gear Solid Sneaking Suit for my Night Blade

But seriously I agree and am not worried.

Saint314Louis1985 · August 2015

I am by no means an ESO lore expert, but

When there is people being resurrected with soul gems and meteors being called down from the sky, I dont find it a far reach to have fire, frost, and skeleton horses in the game just because there is not a book to accompany it.

Santa gear would be pretty stupid IMO but it doesnt affect any part of the game other than visuals, and you could just pretend it is a bunch of people wearing stupid hats if you really needed to justify what other people are wearing.

As far as the explanation for wayshrine traveling, I believe we get our soul back once we defeat Molag Bol. I could be mistaken and thinking of a different game.

Just my 2 cents.

capnbinky · August 2015

Divinius wrote: »

Christmas is going to be the real indicator of how far over the line they are willing to go.

First Santa hat I see is going to cause an immediate uninstall of the game.

Don't even joke about that.

UrQuan · August 2015

WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »

Zorrashi wrote: »

My ideal crown shop would only include lore-friendly mounts.
Senche, regular horses, camels and guar would be the merchandise. They would be reskinned forever and ever. I might budge on adding something like a bear or something but you certainly wouldn't see a flaming horse.

But now we have horses that are on fire, made of a glacier and are undead. Some of those are relatively okay seeing as how their variety has had precedence in former games (like the upcoming skeletal horse), but the rest are just there for the sake of it in the hopes of gaining cash. It is very telling on the loyalty to their own franchise when their own cash shop starts offering ludicrous mounts that do not abide by lore.

Actually,the horse with the fire is in Skyrim.Well,he is black and has red fiery eyes anyway.And there is also a icy looking Ghost horse too. I've never seen a skeleton horse in any of the ES games yet.

This guy:

http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Arvak

Actually,I had totally forgotten about Arvak.

Poor Arvak tends to get overlooked because of Shadowmere. Shadowmere is the mount people always remember from Skyrim. Well, Shadowmere and Frost, anyway.

starkerealm · August 2015

capnbinky wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Christmas is going to be the real indicator of how far over the line they are willing to go.

First Santa hat I see is going to cause an immediate uninstall of the game.

Don't even joke about that.

So, that crazed Wood Elf on Solstheim...

UrQuan · August 2015

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

As far as the explanation for wayshrine traveling, I believe we get our soul back once we defeat Molag Bol. I could be mistaken and thinking of a different game.

Just my 2 cents.

We do get our souls back in the final quest of the main story, but we are still beings of chaotic creatia, because our original bodies are long gone. In fact, even though we have our souls back, we are still treated as if we have no soul by various quests. The logical conclusion is that, although we have possession of our souls once more, they are not properly anchored to our replacement bodies as they were to our original bodies, and thus we are still unmoored from the mundus in the same way as we were before.

starkerealm · August 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

As far as the explanation for wayshrine traveling, I believe we get our soul back once we defeat Molag Bol. I could be mistaken and thinking of a different game.

Just my 2 cents.

We do get our souls back in the final quest of the main story, but we are still beings of chaotic creatia, because our original bodies are long gone. In fact, even though we have our souls back, we are still treated as if we have no soul by various quests. The logical conclusion is that, although we have possession of our souls once more, they are not properly anchored to our replacement bodies as they were to our original bodies, and thus we are still unmoored from the mundus in the same way as we were before.

That might be overthinking the "no souls" quests in Silver and Gold. Remember those are Cadwell allowing the Vestige to experience an alternate reality where they were dumped in the other Alliances. While the world is slightly reactive, enough to realize they're very well equipped, and the Vestige can act based on knowledge they've brought with them ("I've been sent back by Meridia to set things right," instead of "Molag Bal is plotting an invasion of Nirn,") they're in a universe where they are just a soulless Vestige trying to find their way. Even though, in the "real" timeline, they've gotten theirs back already.

capnbinky · August 2015

I agree with what others have been saying; innovation is great, just give us consistency and context to allow us to sustain our suspension of disbelief.

People vary in our ability to suspend disbelief. Those of us with exposure to multiple ES games already have tons of context for amazing fantasy additions that would add to the game with little effort on ZOS' part. Why risk shattering our buy in with cookie-cutter crap any other MMO could do? Why toss otherwise good stuff in without the small touches that would ensure we'd love them?

Guar mounts=good. Senche mounts=good. FO3-style robots? Bad. Dwemer robots? Awesome.

There is so much already there to explore. Whole continents nobody playing an ES game has ever seen, but we've all read about. Silt striders would be welcome, for example. I want something rich and strange.

mrskinskull · August 2015

Cazzy wrote: »

I have been seeing so many threads appear wanting certain outfits and costumes that just doesn't fit into Elder Scrolls lore that I'm a little worried I have been a massive ES fan from the beginning and now having an MMO has been amazing. I love the lore, the land and the people there. I own maps, books and other nerdy little things, so I really hope any future add-ons don't sway from what makes it great. I don't want to see silly outfits or anything that doesn't play a part in ES xD *panics*

P.S. I'm not saying people shouldn't suggest things if it's something they really want to see, I'm just expressing my concern in regards to the franchise

I want to ride a silt strider!

Elsonso · August 2015

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

I am by no means an ESO lore expert, but

When there is people being resurrected with soul gems and meteors being called down from the sky, I dont find it a far reach to have fire, frost, and skeleton horses in the game just because there is not a book to accompany it.

Santa gear would be pretty stupid IMO but it doesnt affect any part of the game other than visuals, and you could just pretend it is a bunch of people wearing stupid hats if you really needed to justify what other people are wearing.

As far as the explanation for wayshrine traveling, I believe we get our soul back once we defeat Molag Bol. I could be mistaken and thinking of a different game.

Just my 2 cents.

Soul gems have been part of Elder Scrolls for decades and they generally have the same purpose in ESO.

Meteors. Most of the spell stuff in ESO is simply MMO stuff that they threw in. There is really not alot in the Class and Weapon skill lines that is Elder Scrolls. Not only that, but this has contributed to the balance issues due to wildly over the top offensive and defensive concepts that they put in there. Everything is a magical skill that has to be tuned. This complex system can gyrate out of control with the smallest tweak in the wrong place or exploit that is not nerfed. It is no wonder that they never went ahead with the spell system that Konkle was showing off last fall. They would never be able to balance that into the current system. The sad thing is that the spell system should have been there instead of the magical class and weapon skill lines. But... water over the dam. Pent up rant over.

My main concern right now is to express displeasure in this sort of stuff continuing. Going forward, I would like to see more consideration regarding Elder Scrolls. With the change from Sage to Lambert, there is a possibility that things could turn more in the Elder Scrolls direction. I would like to see that happen. Get away from "do it because we can make $$$" and towards "do it because it makes sense for an Elder Scrolls game and we will also make $$$".

Saint314Louis1985 · August 2015

I know about the soul gems I was mainly just using that and meteor as examples to say there is a bunch of crazy magical stuff going on non stop in the game and that frost, fire, and skeletal horses don't seem unbelievable to me.

UrQuan · August 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

As far as the explanation for wayshrine traveling, I believe we get our soul back once we defeat Molag Bol. I could be mistaken and thinking of a different game.

Just my 2 cents.

We do get our souls back in the final quest of the main story, but we are still beings of chaotic creatia, because our original bodies are long gone. In fact, even though we have our souls back, we are still treated as if we have no soul by various quests. The logical conclusion is that, although we have possession of our souls once more, they are not properly anchored to our replacement bodies as they were to our original bodies, and thus we are still unmoored from the mundus in the same way as we were before.

That might be overthinking the "no souls" quests in Silver and Gold. Remember those are Cadwell allowing the Vestige to experience an alternate reality where they were dumped in the other Alliances. While the world is slightly reactive, enough to realize they're very well equipped, and the Vestige can act based on knowledge they've brought with them ("I've been sent back by Meridia to set things right," instead of "Molag Bal is plotting an invasion of Nirn,") they're in a universe where they are just a soulless Vestige trying to find their way. Even though, in the "real" timeline, they've gotten theirs back already.

True, but I think that given the fact that even when you're continuing to adventure post-Cadwell's Gold (like in Craglorn) all of the game mechanics continue to treat the player as a vestige (you can still use wayshrines, you still reform your body when you die, etc) it seems to make more sense that you're still not quite back to being your original self. I think the fact that your original body is long gone is the most likely explanation for this.