Should Shadow Cloak get the Mist Form treatment?

Lucky28 · August 2015

I say if you have the resources to spam something. spam it. These changes with stacking are not good changes, having something nerfed so hard that it's impossible to overcome the disadvantages through putting in work and building your character is a major conceptual failure, makes it so there is little to look forward to end game.

Eejit1331 · August 2015

Xael wrote: »

michael217hillnub18_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Wtf are all you people coming from?
It's like someone kicked over an anthill and everyone is scrambling parroting the same nonsense.

Nightblades are fine. Cloak is fine.

One whiner makes a doomsday thread and now everyone is parroting the same rhetoric even though it's apparent most of them have not even PvPed on PTS. Just stop...

Let me guess... You play NightBlade! It's a wonder why you wouldn't want your class nerfed... But in all honesty I'm betting Orsinium update will likely bring a big change to a lot of class abilities and I'm sure this will get looked at and nerfed. You need to find the sweet spot and right now infinite escape is a stupid game mechanic.

I am a Stamina Sorcerer.
Though I am not shocked by your inability to see beyond your petty bias.

Odd.. I found this...

Xael
✭✭✭✭
Dark Cloak still cancels the bonus speed from Concealed Weapon. Once the ability (dark cloak) wears off, you move slower than before you used it. You must leave sneak and re sneak in order to move at the correct speed. Sometimes trying to sneak again does not fix it and you must log out of game to reset it.

This has been the case for a while now.... it's a bug that messes up pvp and pve.
Edited by Xael on September 15, 2014 4:11PM

Chrlynsch · August 2015

Instead of a regen cut off, why not go with diminishing duration, or my favorite deminishing speed:)

Domander · August 2015

How can you "exclude" all the counters to cloak......

Draehl · August 2015

My standard disclaimer:

Assuming this cloak gets nerfed, please keep in mind there are plenty of non-OP builds that also use shadow cloak that will be adversely affected. The class as a whole is propped up by shadow cloak whether we play your loathed assassin archetype or not. This is to make up for having several weak/useless class skills. If cloak gets nerfed several other skills are absolutely going to require some serious looking at by the devs.

I won't argue cloak, but please keep the rest of us in mind when proposing these heavy handed nerfs.

Soulac · August 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@soulac So what cloak can be broken and has a couple counter's. This only effect's player's who can go into combat without any draw back's. You can easily teleport away with summon shade or run away and perma cloak till your out of combat.

It's running away with perma-cloak, that's the problem. You should't be able to cloak for 30 second's till your out of combat, that's just silly. There is no risk when entering combat because of the way cloak work's right now. If you are smart you are guaranteed to get out of combat if you want to. With this change you can still get away but you do risk getting seen since you may run out of magicka over 20 something second's of cloak spam or you may actually stop cloaking to regen some magicka for more cloak's.

Most cloak counter's are literally in-combat counter's. When a nightblade doesn't want to be in combat anymore, they just leave and cloak till the end of time.

Nightblades are supposed to go in and out of a combat quickly. How is a stamina NB supposed to do it with being able to cast cloak merely three times without having a guaranteed chance if it working. Roll away? Don´t think so.
Shadow Image? Needs to be precasted then, destroying the surprise effect.

If and only if cloak works 100% of the time as all other defense abilities with a penalty do, then we could start talking about penalties.
Why should my cloak cost magicka and stops all magicka reg when I can´t even be sure about it working as it should.

When we start a group and run around barely any NBs escapes us and i don´t see this changing with the next patch.
If you can´t catch a NB using cloak then slot the skills for it. You´d tell me as well to slot gap closers if i want to catch sorcs or use melee attacks if i face a DK using reflect only.

Cloak in is current state shouldn´t have a penalty, it´s not even completly fixed and still buggy.

A stamina nb could slot Elusive Mist and get way more distance then cloak. Since you need a vampire ability to take advantage of the passive's it's viable. Elusive Mist give's you 4 second's so your roll dodge cost is returned to normal after the channel.

How is a stamina nightblade going to get out of combat even with 5-6 cloak's. You won't be able to go hidden that's for sure. That's where Magicka is different, there is always an Out. Stamina is a completely different play style, Kill or be killed. There is no going back as a stamina nightblade, only forward.

Also your in PTS, there is probably plenty more fixes to come (even to cloak).

So i should slot elusive mist and be a vamp having counters which are not dodgeable?
You know.. instead i should be able to rely on my class-only defense as well.

Cloak is still a fine defense, you can use it as a stamina nightblade. The point is you can't endlessly cloak as a stamina nightblade and forget about your engagement. You actually have to man up and win your fight since that's the only way you will be able to go hidden (unless you wait 30 second's somewhere safe and manage to juke your opponent).

The point is, you can hide almost anywhere as a magicka nightblade and avoid detection until your out of combat after a fight went sour. Stamina Nightblade's cannot to that with such ease.

If you want to run and hide with a stamina nb your better off popping an invisibility potion.

If NBs shouldn't have at least their class defense spammable, then no one should.
Penalties on all shields and BoL, man up and don't hide between those skills

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@soulac So what cloak can be broken and has a couple counter's. This only effect's player's who can go into combat without any draw back's. You can easily teleport away with summon shade or run away and perma cloak till your out of combat.

It's running away with perma-cloak, that's the problem. You should't be able to cloak for 30 second's till your out of combat, that's just silly. There is no risk when entering combat because of the way cloak work's right now. If you are smart you are guaranteed to get out of combat if you want to. With this change you can still get away but you do risk getting seen since you may run out of magicka over 20 something second's of cloak spam or you may actually stop cloaking to regen some magicka for more cloak's.

Most cloak counter's are literally in-combat counter's. When a nightblade doesn't want to be in combat anymore, they just leave and cloak till the end of time.

Nightblades are supposed to go in and out of a combat quickly. How is a stamina NB supposed to do it with being able to cast cloak merely three times without having a guaranteed chance if it working. Roll away? Don´t think so.
Shadow Image? Needs to be precasted then, destroying the surprise effect.

If and only if cloak works 100% of the time as all other defense abilities with a penalty do, then we could start talking about penalties.
Why should my cloak cost magicka and stops all magicka reg when I can´t even be sure about it working as it should.

When we start a group and run around barely any NBs escapes us and i don´t see this changing with the next patch.
If you can´t catch a NB using cloak then slot the skills for it. You´d tell me as well to slot gap closers if i want to catch sorcs or use melee attacks if i face a DK using reflect only.

Cloak in is current state shouldn´t have a penalty, it´s not even completly fixed and still buggy.

A stamina nb could slot Elusive Mist and get way more distance then cloak. Since you need a vampire ability to take advantage of the passive's it's viable. Elusive Mist give's you 4 second's so your roll dodge cost is returned to normal after the channel.

How is a stamina nightblade going to get out of combat even with 5-6 cloak's. You won't be able to go hidden that's for sure. That's where Magicka is different, there is always an Out. Stamina is a completely different play style, Kill or be killed. There is no going back as a stamina nightblade, only forward.

Also your in PTS, there is probably plenty more fixes to come (even to cloak).

So i should slot elusive mist and be a vamp having counters which are not dodgeable?
You know.. instead i should be able to rely on my class-only defense as well.

Cloak is still a fine defense, you can use it as a stamina nightblade. The point is you can't endlessly cloak as a stamina nightblade and forget about your engagement. You actually have to man up and win your fight since that's the only way you will be able to go hidden (unless you wait 30 second's somewhere safe and manage to juke your opponent).

The point is, you can hide almost anywhere as a magicka nightblade and avoid detection until your out of combat after a fight went sour. Stamina Nightblade's cannot to that with such ease.

If you want to run and hide with a stamina nb your better off popping an invisibility potion.

If NBs shouldn't have at least their class defense spammable, then no one should.
Penalties on all shields and BoL, man up and don't hide between those skills

A magicka nightblade could still spam their cloak about 12 or more time's with this change. With this change you just can't go into combat and stay cloaked for the total duration until hidden again. Your defense is still there. If you want cost stacking on cloak by all mean's take it but i think taking out regen is the better option.

Septimus_Magna · August 2015

Play a NB then ask again

Soulac · August 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@soulac So what cloak can be broken and has a couple counter's. This only effect's player's who can go into combat without any draw back's. You can easily teleport away with summon shade or run away and perma cloak till your out of combat.

It's running away with perma-cloak, that's the problem. You should't be able to cloak for 30 second's till your out of combat, that's just silly. There is no risk when entering combat because of the way cloak work's right now. If you are smart you are guaranteed to get out of combat if you want to. With this change you can still get away but you do risk getting seen since you may run out of magicka over 20 something second's of cloak spam or you may actually stop cloaking to regen some magicka for more cloak's.

Most cloak counter's are literally in-combat counter's. When a nightblade doesn't want to be in combat anymore, they just leave and cloak till the end of time.

Nightblades are supposed to go in and out of a combat quickly. How is a stamina NB supposed to do it with being able to cast cloak merely three times without having a guaranteed chance if it working. Roll away? Don´t think so.
Shadow Image? Needs to be precasted then, destroying the surprise effect.

If and only if cloak works 100% of the time as all other defense abilities with a penalty do, then we could start talking about penalties.
Why should my cloak cost magicka and stops all magicka reg when I can´t even be sure about it working as it should.

When we start a group and run around barely any NBs escapes us and i don´t see this changing with the next patch.
If you can´t catch a NB using cloak then slot the skills for it. You´d tell me as well to slot gap closers if i want to catch sorcs or use melee attacks if i face a DK using reflect only.

Cloak in is current state shouldn´t have a penalty, it´s not even completly fixed and still buggy.

A stamina nb could slot Elusive Mist and get way more distance then cloak. Since you need a vampire ability to take advantage of the passive's it's viable. Elusive Mist give's you 4 second's so your roll dodge cost is returned to normal after the channel.

How is a stamina nightblade going to get out of combat even with 5-6 cloak's. You won't be able to go hidden that's for sure. That's where Magicka is different, there is always an Out. Stamina is a completely different play style, Kill or be killed. There is no going back as a stamina nightblade, only forward.

Also your in PTS, there is probably plenty more fixes to come (even to cloak).

So i should slot elusive mist and be a vamp having counters which are not dodgeable?
You know.. instead i should be able to rely on my class-only defense as well.

Cloak is still a fine defense, you can use it as a stamina nightblade. The point is you can't endlessly cloak as a stamina nightblade and forget about your engagement. You actually have to man up and win your fight since that's the only way you will be able to go hidden (unless you wait 30 second's somewhere safe and manage to juke your opponent).

The point is, you can hide almost anywhere as a magicka nightblade and avoid detection until your out of combat after a fight went sour. Stamina Nightblade's cannot to that with such ease.

If you want to run and hide with a stamina nb your better off popping an invisibility potion.

If NBs shouldn't have at least their class defense spammable, then no one should.
Penalties on all shields and BoL, man up and don't hide between those skills

A magicka nightblade could still spam their cloak about 12 or more time's with this change. With this change you just can't go into combat and stay cloaked for the total duration until hidden again. Your defense is still there. If you want cost stacking on cloak by all mean's take it but i think taking out regen is the better option.

Not everyone is a Magicka NB and not everyone plays with super huge mag Reg.
You basically punish people with low mag reg by letting them recovery even less.

Counters breaking cloak completely or a penalty, but both is too much.

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@soulac So what cloak can be broken and has a couple counter's. This only effect's player's who can go into combat without any draw back's. You can easily teleport away with summon shade or run away and perma cloak till your out of combat.

It's running away with perma-cloak, that's the problem. You should't be able to cloak for 30 second's till your out of combat, that's just silly. There is no risk when entering combat because of the way cloak work's right now. If you are smart you are guaranteed to get out of combat if you want to. With this change you can still get away but you do risk getting seen since you may run out of magicka over 20 something second's of cloak spam or you may actually stop cloaking to regen some magicka for more cloak's.

Most cloak counter's are literally in-combat counter's. When a nightblade doesn't want to be in combat anymore, they just leave and cloak till the end of time.

Nightblades are supposed to go in and out of a combat quickly. How is a stamina NB supposed to do it with being able to cast cloak merely three times without having a guaranteed chance if it working. Roll away? Don´t think so.
Shadow Image? Needs to be precasted then, destroying the surprise effect.

If and only if cloak works 100% of the time as all other defense abilities with a penalty do, then we could start talking about penalties.
Why should my cloak cost magicka and stops all magicka reg when I can´t even be sure about it working as it should.

When we start a group and run around barely any NBs escapes us and i don´t see this changing with the next patch.
If you can´t catch a NB using cloak then slot the skills for it. You´d tell me as well to slot gap closers if i want to catch sorcs or use melee attacks if i face a DK using reflect only.

Cloak in is current state shouldn´t have a penalty, it´s not even completly fixed and still buggy.

A stamina nb could slot Elusive Mist and get way more distance then cloak. Since you need a vampire ability to take advantage of the passive's it's viable. Elusive Mist give's you 4 second's so your roll dodge cost is returned to normal after the channel.

How is a stamina nightblade going to get out of combat even with 5-6 cloak's. You won't be able to go hidden that's for sure. That's where Magicka is different, there is always an Out. Stamina is a completely different play style, Kill or be killed. There is no going back as a stamina nightblade, only forward.

Also your in PTS, there is probably plenty more fixes to come (even to cloak).

So i should slot elusive mist and be a vamp having counters which are not dodgeable?
You know.. instead i should be able to rely on my class-only defense as well.

Cloak is still a fine defense, you can use it as a stamina nightblade. The point is you can't endlessly cloak as a stamina nightblade and forget about your engagement. You actually have to man up and win your fight since that's the only way you will be able to go hidden (unless you wait 30 second's somewhere safe and manage to juke your opponent).

The point is, you can hide almost anywhere as a magicka nightblade and avoid detection until your out of combat after a fight went sour. Stamina Nightblade's cannot to that with such ease.

If you want to run and hide with a stamina nb your better off popping an invisibility potion.

If NBs shouldn't have at least their class defense spammable, then no one should.
Penalties on all shields and BoL, man up and don't hide between those skills

A magicka nightblade could still spam their cloak about 12 or more time's with this change. With this change you just can't go into combat and stay cloaked for the total duration until hidden again. Your defense is still there. If you want cost stacking on cloak by all mean's take it but i think taking out regen is the better option.

Not everyone is a Magicka NB and not everyone plays with super huge mag Reg.
You basically punish people with low mag reg by letting them recovery even less.

Counters breaking cloak completely or a penalty, but both is too much.

Super High regen nightblade's would have it worse off. If you have a bigger magicka pool that mean's more flexibility/cloak spam. High regen would have to sit out of cloak more often since they wont be able to sustain 6-8 cloak's compared to 9-13 with more max magicka.

You don't seem to realize it's insanely easy for a nightblade to just break distance even with said counter's.. cloak and escape. No other class in the game can do this unless they manage to break line of sight and hide till out of combat (still easily seen). Magicka nightblade's only need to create a gap and they are safe cloak spamming in a field.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Play a NB then ask again

I've played both magicka and stamina nightblade (v14 pvp). I prefer stamina because there is much more risk. Magicka nightblade's are the definition of the term "cheese" you see on these forum's.

My stamina nightblade, if i get outnumbered it is very very hard to get away and remain hidden. On my magicka nightblade i can cloak though a whole zerg without even a worry of running out of resource or being seen.

xaraan · August 2015

Yes, Shadow Cloak should most definitely get the Mist Form Treatment.

Soulac · August 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@soulac So what cloak can be broken and has a couple counter's. This only effect's player's who can go into combat without any draw back's. You can easily teleport away with summon shade or run away and perma cloak till your out of combat.

It's running away with perma-cloak, that's the problem. You should't be able to cloak for 30 second's till your out of combat, that's just silly. There is no risk when entering combat because of the way cloak work's right now. If you are smart you are guaranteed to get out of combat if you want to. With this change you can still get away but you do risk getting seen since you may run out of magicka over 20 something second's of cloak spam or you may actually stop cloaking to regen some magicka for more cloak's.

Most cloak counter's are literally in-combat counter's. When a nightblade doesn't want to be in combat anymore, they just leave and cloak till the end of time.

Nightblades are supposed to go in and out of a combat quickly. How is a stamina NB supposed to do it with being able to cast cloak merely three times without having a guaranteed chance if it working. Roll away? Don´t think so.
Shadow Image? Needs to be precasted then, destroying the surprise effect.

If and only if cloak works 100% of the time as all other defense abilities with a penalty do, then we could start talking about penalties.
Why should my cloak cost magicka and stops all magicka reg when I can´t even be sure about it working as it should.

When we start a group and run around barely any NBs escapes us and i don´t see this changing with the next patch.
If you can´t catch a NB using cloak then slot the skills for it. You´d tell me as well to slot gap closers if i want to catch sorcs or use melee attacks if i face a DK using reflect only.

Cloak in is current state shouldn´t have a penalty, it´s not even completly fixed and still buggy.

A stamina nb could slot Elusive Mist and get way more distance then cloak. Since you need a vampire ability to take advantage of the passive's it's viable. Elusive Mist give's you 4 second's so your roll dodge cost is returned to normal after the channel.

How is a stamina nightblade going to get out of combat even with 5-6 cloak's. You won't be able to go hidden that's for sure. That's where Magicka is different, there is always an Out. Stamina is a completely different play style, Kill or be killed. There is no going back as a stamina nightblade, only forward.

Also your in PTS, there is probably plenty more fixes to come (even to cloak).

So i should slot elusive mist and be a vamp having counters which are not dodgeable?
You know.. instead i should be able to rely on my class-only defense as well.

Cloak is still a fine defense, you can use it as a stamina nightblade. The point is you can't endlessly cloak as a stamina nightblade and forget about your engagement. You actually have to man up and win your fight since that's the only way you will be able to go hidden (unless you wait 30 second's somewhere safe and manage to juke your opponent).

The point is, you can hide almost anywhere as a magicka nightblade and avoid detection until your out of combat after a fight went sour. Stamina Nightblade's cannot to that with such ease.

If you want to run and hide with a stamina nb your better off popping an invisibility potion.

If NBs shouldn't have at least their class defense spammable, then no one should.
Penalties on all shields and BoL, man up and don't hide between those skills

A magicka nightblade could still spam their cloak about 12 or more time's with this change. With this change you just can't go into combat and stay cloaked for the total duration until hidden again. Your defense is still there. If you want cost stacking on cloak by all mean's take it but i think taking out regen is the better option.

Not everyone is a Magicka NB and not everyone plays with super huge mag Reg.
You basically punish people with low mag reg by letting them recovery even less.

Counters breaking cloak completely or a penalty, but both is too much.

Super High regen nightblade's would have it worse off. If you have a bigger magicka pool that mean's more flexibility/cloak spam. High regen would have to sit out of cloak more often since they wont be able to sustain 6-8 cloak's compared to 9-13 with more max magicka.

You don't seem to realize it's insanely easy for a nightblade to just break distance even with said counter's.. cloak and escape. No other class in the game can do this unless they manage to break line of sight and hide till out of combat (still easily seen). Magicka nightblade's only need to create a gap and they are safe cloak spamming in a field.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Play a NB then ask again

I've played both magicka and stamina nightblade (v14 pvp). I prefer stamina because there is much more risk. Magicka nightblade's are the definition of the term "cheese" you see on these forum's.

My stamina nightblade, if i get outnumbered it is very very hard to get away and remain hidden. On my magicka nightblade i can cloak though a whole zerg without even a worry of running out of resource or being seen.

You don't seem to realize that cloak is a high cost ability with many counters.
Completely breaking cloak with a single potion, flare or any other (ground-) AoE and Mark.

Now you want a penalty cause NBs are using their class ability too often? They don't have any other choice.
NBs are squishy as you should know once you get marked or fight a group with >10 Caltrops.
If cloak is not guaranteed to work it shouldn't have a penalty and I can't think of any reason why it should.
I've never had any problems catching NBs and I'm not using mark or detection potions.
Streak, Caltrops, Talons etc. it's so easy to get them and still the whine about it.

Your suggested cloak penalty would ruin the usage of it for offense maneuvers and make it just useful as a lower "dodge".

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · August 2015

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@soulac So what cloak can be broken and has a couple counter's. This only effect's player's who can go into combat without any draw back's. You can easily teleport away with summon shade or run away and perma cloak till your out of combat.

It's running away with perma-cloak, that's the problem. You should't be able to cloak for 30 second's till your out of combat, that's just silly. There is no risk when entering combat because of the way cloak work's right now. If you are smart you are guaranteed to get out of combat if you want to. With this change you can still get away but you do risk getting seen since you may run out of magicka over 20 something second's of cloak spam or you may actually stop cloaking to regen some magicka for more cloak's.

Most cloak counter's are literally in-combat counter's. When a nightblade doesn't want to be in combat anymore, they just leave and cloak till the end of time.

Nightblades are supposed to go in and out of a combat quickly. How is a stamina NB supposed to do it with being able to cast cloak merely three times without having a guaranteed chance if it working. Roll away? Don´t think so.
Shadow Image? Needs to be precasted then, destroying the surprise effect.

If and only if cloak works 100% of the time as all other defense abilities with a penalty do, then we could start talking about penalties.
Why should my cloak cost magicka and stops all magicka reg when I can´t even be sure about it working as it should.

When we start a group and run around barely any NBs escapes us and i don´t see this changing with the next patch.
If you can´t catch a NB using cloak then slot the skills for it. You´d tell me as well to slot gap closers if i want to catch sorcs or use melee attacks if i face a DK using reflect only.

Cloak in is current state shouldn´t have a penalty, it´s not even completly fixed and still buggy.

A stamina nb could slot Elusive Mist and get way more distance then cloak. Since you need a vampire ability to take advantage of the passive's it's viable. Elusive Mist give's you 4 second's so your roll dodge cost is returned to normal after the channel.

How is a stamina nightblade going to get out of combat even with 5-6 cloak's. You won't be able to go hidden that's for sure. That's where Magicka is different, there is always an Out. Stamina is a completely different play style, Kill or be killed. There is no going back as a stamina nightblade, only forward.

Also your in PTS, there is probably plenty more fixes to come (even to cloak).

So i should slot elusive mist and be a vamp having counters which are not dodgeable?
You know.. instead i should be able to rely on my class-only defense as well.

Cloak is still a fine defense, you can use it as a stamina nightblade. The point is you can't endlessly cloak as a stamina nightblade and forget about your engagement. You actually have to man up and win your fight since that's the only way you will be able to go hidden (unless you wait 30 second's somewhere safe and manage to juke your opponent).

The point is, you can hide almost anywhere as a magicka nightblade and avoid detection until your out of combat after a fight went sour. Stamina Nightblade's cannot to that with such ease.

If you want to run and hide with a stamina nb your better off popping an invisibility potion.

If NBs shouldn't have at least their class defense spammable, then no one should.
Penalties on all shields and BoL, man up and don't hide between those skills

A magicka nightblade could still spam their cloak about 12 or more time's with this change. With this change you just can't go into combat and stay cloaked for the total duration until hidden again. Your defense is still there. If you want cost stacking on cloak by all mean's take it but i think taking out regen is the better option.

Not everyone is a Magicka NB and not everyone plays with super huge mag Reg.
You basically punish people with low mag reg by letting them recovery even less.

Counters breaking cloak completely or a penalty, but both is too much.

Yeah if this happened, all Nightblades would have to go Magicka, just to use the ability (Cloak), I would not even play the game any more at that point if that was the case, I like Stamina Builds, if they nerfed it that much then I would need a Stamina Morph of Cloak (as in it ran off Stamina and not Magicka). What's crazy is everyone is calling for Nerf's to Cloak, when it was supposed to be fixed when PC 1st launched, you know like a year and 4-5 months ago, and now they are finally fixing it...

So now people start complaining left and right.. "OMG it's too Powerful..." "Nooo I can't use RML (radiant magelight) or Detect potions or slot the Flare skill they don't work good enough or it will cause me to be less powerful or less resourceful..."

If you are not going to take the precautions or slot the abilities, then don't complain when you can't catch a Nightblade, that is the choice you make, for example, If I don't slot efficient purge on my bar, I have to Handle it if some other Nightblade puts a Piercing Mark or a Reapers Mark on me (or Someone puts something else on me). I don't complain, I handle the situation, as in find the Nightblade (if I can) and kill him (if I can) or I deal with it until it goes away, that's what it is to make choices and be a responsible adult.

Most people can't handle that though, they hate things that annoy them and call for Nerf's, I hated it when Sorc's would get away with BOLT Escape, hell my guildmates /alliance members used to tease me about it, but I never called for a Nerf, it is their special ability, I never cried for a Nerf to a DK's Green Dragon Blood (well I did cry about "it" because I think that "that ability" is OP) But I Never, Never called for a Nerf to the Ability, it's a DK signature ability (they are supposed to be tough and Tanky, I hate it but I respect it).. or any ability for that matter, check the Forum's Here or TF (Tamriel Foundry). Hell I hate Block casters But and it's a big one, I never said "yeah they should just Nerf Stam recovery when blocking.." or Dodge rollers, I faced them too ya know and it was hard to catch and target them, they are slippery as hell, but I never called for a Nerf on that.. So Now that those two are going into effect should I just say, that's it, I am gonna call for a Nerf on Shield stackers too.. only one shield can be used at a time or how about a 33% cost on each next shield cast used..

Stop calling for Nerf's and have ZOS balance the game better, give insights, not "oh I hate it, it needs a Nerf.." because before long it will affect you too.. My Argonian Nightblade Healer/caster uses Shields and stacks them, should I Nerf Myself..

People (to those that need it) you need to learn Tolerance and take responsibility for your actions..

Oh and to Soulac, this Post is not for you my friend just a large post on my feelings toward Nerfs and this thread in General.. thank you for being understanding..

Tankqull · August 2015

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@soulac So what cloak can be broken and has a couple counter's. This only effect's player's who can go into combat without any draw back's. You can easily teleport away with summon shade or run away and perma cloak till your out of combat.

It's running away with perma-cloak, that's the problem. You should't be able to cloak for 30 second's till your out of combat, that's just silly. There is no risk when entering combat because of the way cloak work's right now. If you are smart you are guaranteed to get out of combat if you want to. With this change you can still get away but you do risk getting seen since you may run out of magicka over 20 something second's of cloak spam or you may actually stop cloaking to regen some magicka for more cloak's.

Most cloak counter's are literally in-combat counter's. When a nightblade doesn't want to be in combat anymore, they just leave and cloak till the end of time.

Nightblades are supposed to go in and out of a combat quickly. How is a stamina NB supposed to do it with being able to cast cloak merely three times without having a guaranteed chance if it working. Roll away? Don´t think so.
Shadow Image? Needs to be precasted then, destroying the surprise effect.

If and only if cloak works 100% of the time as all other defense abilities with a penalty do, then we could start talking about penalties.
Why should my cloak cost magicka and stops all magicka reg when I can´t even be sure about it working as it should.

When we start a group and run around barely any NBs escapes us and i don´t see this changing with the next patch.
If you can´t catch a NB using cloak then slot the skills for it. You´d tell me as well to slot gap closers if i want to catch sorcs or use melee attacks if i face a DK using reflect only.

Cloak in is current state shouldn´t have a penalty, it´s not even completly fixed and still buggy.

A stamina nb could slot Elusive Mist and get way more distance then cloak. Since you need a vampire ability to take advantage of the passive's it's viable. Elusive Mist give's you 4 second's so your roll dodge cost is returned to normal after the channel.

How is a stamina nightblade going to get out of combat even with 5-6 cloak's. You won't be able to go hidden that's for sure. That's where Magicka is different, there is always an Out. Stamina is a completely different play style, Kill or be killed. There is no going back as a stamina nightblade, only forward.

Also your in PTS, there is probably plenty more fixes to come (even to cloak).

So i should slot elusive mist and be a vamp having counters which are not dodgeable?
You know.. instead i should be able to rely on my class-only defense as well.

Cloak is still a fine defense, you can use it as a stamina nightblade. The point is you can't endlessly cloak as a stamina nightblade and forget about your engagement. You actually have to man up and win your fight since that's the only way you will be able to go hidden (unless you wait 30 second's somewhere safe and manage to juke your opponent).

The point is, you can hide almost anywhere as a magicka nightblade and avoid detection until your out of combat after a fight went sour. Stamina Nightblade's cannot to that with such ease.

If you want to run and hide with a stamina nb your better off popping an invisibility potion.

If NBs shouldn't have at least their class defense spammable, then no one should.
Penalties on all shields and BoL, man up and don't hide between those skills

A magicka nightblade could still spam their cloak about 12 or more time's with this change. With this change you just can't go into combat and stay cloaked for the total duration until hidden again. Your defense is still there. If you want cost stacking on cloak by all mean's take it but i think taking out regen is the better option.

Not everyone is a Magicka NB and not everyone plays with super huge mag Reg.
You basically punish people with low mag reg by letting them recovery even less.

Counters breaking cloak completely or a penalty, but both is too much.

Super High regen nightblade's would have it worse off. If you have a bigger magicka pool that mean's more flexibility/cloak spam. High regen would have to sit out of cloak more often since they wont be able to sustain 6-8 cloak's compared to 9-13 with more max magicka.

You don't seem to realize it's insanely easy for a nightblade to just break distance even with said counter's.. cloak and escape. No other class in the game can do this unless they manage to break line of sight and hide till out of combat (still easily seen). Magicka nightblade's only need to create a gap and they are safe cloak spamming in a field.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Play a NB then ask again

I've played both magicka and stamina nightblade (v14 pvp). I prefer stamina because there is much more risk. Magicka nightblade's are the definition of the term "cheese" you see on these forum's.

My stamina nightblade, if i get outnumbered it is very very hard to get away and remain hidden. On my magicka nightblade i can cloak though a whole zerg without even a worry of running out of resource or being seen.

You don't seem to realize that cloak is a high cost ability with many counters.
Completely breaking cloak with a single potion, flare or any other (ground-) AoE and Mark.

Now you want a penalty cause NBs are using their class ability too often? They don't have any other choice.
NBs are squishy as you should know once you get marked or fight a group with >10 Caltrops.
If cloak is not guaranteed to work it shouldn't have a penalty and I can't think of any reason why it should.
I've never had any problems catching NBs and I'm not using mark or detection potions.
Streak, Caltrops, Talons etc. it's so easy to get them and still the whine about it.

Your suggested cloak penalty would ruin the usage of it for offense maneuvers and make it just useful as a lower "dodge".

that what you demanded when it was about sorcs

and by the way no other class escapes a group with >10 caltrops ... so why should NB´s ?

as a stamina NB the proposed magica reg negation feels suitable as it is currently the by far most powerfull escape and without any contester offensive mechanic this game posses.

Soulac · August 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@soulac So what cloak can be broken and has a couple counter's. This only effect's player's who can go into combat without any draw back's. You can easily teleport away with summon shade or run away and perma cloak till your out of combat.

It's running away with perma-cloak, that's the problem. You should't be able to cloak for 30 second's till your out of combat, that's just silly. There is no risk when entering combat because of the way cloak work's right now. If you are smart you are guaranteed to get out of combat if you want to. With this change you can still get away but you do risk getting seen since you may run out of magicka over 20 something second's of cloak spam or you may actually stop cloaking to regen some magicka for more cloak's.

Most cloak counter's are literally in-combat counter's. When a nightblade doesn't want to be in combat anymore, they just leave and cloak till the end of time.

Nightblades are supposed to go in and out of a combat quickly. How is a stamina NB supposed to do it with being able to cast cloak merely three times without having a guaranteed chance if it working. Roll away? Don´t think so.
Shadow Image? Needs to be precasted then, destroying the surprise effect.

If and only if cloak works 100% of the time as all other defense abilities with a penalty do, then we could start talking about penalties.
Why should my cloak cost magicka and stops all magicka reg when I can´t even be sure about it working as it should.

When we start a group and run around barely any NBs escapes us and i don´t see this changing with the next patch.
If you can´t catch a NB using cloak then slot the skills for it. You´d tell me as well to slot gap closers if i want to catch sorcs or use melee attacks if i face a DK using reflect only.

Cloak in is current state shouldn´t have a penalty, it´s not even completly fixed and still buggy.

A stamina nb could slot Elusive Mist and get way more distance then cloak. Since you need a vampire ability to take advantage of the passive's it's viable. Elusive Mist give's you 4 second's so your roll dodge cost is returned to normal after the channel.

How is a stamina nightblade going to get out of combat even with 5-6 cloak's. You won't be able to go hidden that's for sure. That's where Magicka is different, there is always an Out. Stamina is a completely different play style, Kill or be killed. There is no going back as a stamina nightblade, only forward.

Also your in PTS, there is probably plenty more fixes to come (even to cloak).

So i should slot elusive mist and be a vamp having counters which are not dodgeable?
You know.. instead i should be able to rely on my class-only defense as well.

Cloak is still a fine defense, you can use it as a stamina nightblade. The point is you can't endlessly cloak as a stamina nightblade and forget about your engagement. You actually have to man up and win your fight since that's the only way you will be able to go hidden (unless you wait 30 second's somewhere safe and manage to juke your opponent).

The point is, you can hide almost anywhere as a magicka nightblade and avoid detection until your out of combat after a fight went sour. Stamina Nightblade's cannot to that with such ease.

If you want to run and hide with a stamina nb your better off popping an invisibility potion.

If NBs shouldn't have at least their class defense spammable, then no one should.
Penalties on all shields and BoL, man up and don't hide between those skills

A magicka nightblade could still spam their cloak about 12 or more time's with this change. With this change you just can't go into combat and stay cloaked for the total duration until hidden again. Your defense is still there. If you want cost stacking on cloak by all mean's take it but i think taking out regen is the better option.

Not everyone is a Magicka NB and not everyone plays with super huge mag Reg.
You basically punish people with low mag reg by letting them recovery even less.

Counters breaking cloak completely or a penalty, but both is too much.

Super High regen nightblade's would have it worse off. If you have a bigger magicka pool that mean's more flexibility/cloak spam. High regen would have to sit out of cloak more often since they wont be able to sustain 6-8 cloak's compared to 9-13 with more max magicka.

You don't seem to realize it's insanely easy for a nightblade to just break distance even with said counter's.. cloak and escape. No other class in the game can do this unless they manage to break line of sight and hide till out of combat (still easily seen). Magicka nightblade's only need to create a gap and they are safe cloak spamming in a field.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Play a NB then ask again

I've played both magicka and stamina nightblade (v14 pvp). I prefer stamina because there is much more risk. Magicka nightblade's are the definition of the term "cheese" you see on these forum's.

My stamina nightblade, if i get outnumbered it is very very hard to get away and remain hidden. On my magicka nightblade i can cloak though a whole zerg without even a worry of running out of resource or being seen.

You don't seem to realize that cloak is a high cost ability with many counters.
Completely breaking cloak with a single potion, flare or any other (ground-) AoE and Mark.

Now you want a penalty cause NBs are using their class ability too often? They don't have any other choice.
NBs are squishy as you should know once you get marked or fight a group with >10 Caltrops.
If cloak is not guaranteed to work it shouldn't have a penalty and I can't think of any reason why it should.
I've never had any problems catching NBs and I'm not using mark or detection potions.
Streak, Caltrops, Talons etc. it's so easy to get them and still the whine about it.

Your suggested cloak penalty would ruin the usage of it for offense maneuvers and make it just useful as a lower "dodge".

that what you demanded when it was about sorcs

and by the way no other class escapes a group with >10 caltrops ... so why should NB´s ?

as a stamina NB the proposed magica reg negation feels suitable as it is currently the by far most powerfull escape and without any contester offensive mechanic this game posses.

Cloak is not only about escaping.
It is mostly used as defense and offense since some of our skills work together with it.
Caltrops on the ground and all combos won't work anymore.

By the way I didn't demand anything when it was about Sorcs.
Sorc skills are not comparable to NB skills.
Just saying that shields shouldn't be the only defense ability without a penalty in case cloak gets one as well.
Shields are not sorc specific.

Seriously I don't care about any escapes, cloak is my one and only defense ability. If you want to nerf it cause it could be used as an escape then give me a reliable defense mechanic.
No, dodge is not reliable.

Draxys · August 2015

Nah, but I do think it needs the bolt treatment

Master_Kas · August 2015

@Soulac

There's no point arguing with these people. Just brace yourself for the incoming nerf

bowmanz607 · August 2015

idk i think it is a good idea. ofcourse I would want to test it before I gave a final opinion.

ArvenAldmeri · August 2015

For both my stamina and my magicka NB I say NO. Stupid idea. Cloak might be annoying for some people like you but it has its counters. Just no.

Junglejim82 · August 2015

Some people

bowmanz607 · August 2015

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

For both my stamina and my magicka NB I say NO. Stupid idea. Cloak might be annoying for some people like you but it has its counters. Just no.

Idk. It prevents perma clocking and makes it a skill that should be used efficiently like bolt escape and dodgeroll. You cant do the cost increase nerf because you are not guaran teed a cl9ak. This makes a penalty for over cloaking bUT does so 8n a way that only penalizes you when it actually works. You can still use the cloaks you need but can't infinity spam it. Seems reasonavle, but would need to test it.

ArvenAldmeri · August 2015

bowmanz607 wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

For both my stamina and my magicka NB I say NO. Stupid idea. Cloak might be annoying for some people like you but it has its counters. Just no.

Idk. It prevents perma clocking and makes it a skill that should be used efficiently like bolt escape and dodgeroll. You cant do the cost increase nerf because you are not guaran teed a cl9ak. This makes a penalty for over cloaking bUT does so 8n a way that only penalizes you when it actually works. You can still use the cloaks you need but can't infinity spam it. Seems reasonavle, but would need to test it.

I should have also mentioned that I do not like and do not agree with the change to cost of BE and dodge rolling. Dodge roll is not so bad from what I have tried on PTS but BE is really very bad. I streak 4 times and I am out of magicka... with magicka sorc... That is comparable to how many times I can dark cloak with my stamina NB... which is a bit sad. They nerfed BE too much. I dont like nerfing any of these in need escape abilities.

bowmanz607 · August 2015

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

For both my stamina and my magicka NB I say NO. Stupid idea. Cloak might be annoying for some people like you but it has its counters. Just no.

Idk. It prevents perma clocking and makes it a skill that should be used efficiently like bolt escape and dodgeroll. You cant do the cost increase nerf because you are not guaran teed a cl9ak. This makes a penalty for over cloaking bUT does so 8n a way that only penalizes you when it actually works. You can still use the cloaks you need but can't infinity spam it. Seems reasonavle, but would need to test it.

I should have also mentioned that I do not like and do not agree with the change to cost of BE and dodge rolling. Dodge roll is not so bad from what I have tried on PTS but BE is really very bad. I streak 4 times and I am out of magicka... with magicka sorc... That is comparable to how many times I can dark cloak with my stamina NB... which is a bit sad. They nerfed BE too much. I dont like nerfing any of these in need escape abilities.

ya overall i agree. i dont think any should have been nerfed. but if we are talking about reasonble nerfs to it, this is the only plausible one.

contact.opiumb16_ESO · August 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Mist Form got Nerf'd a while back so you could not regenerate magicka during the channel's duration.

And a tell you a big YES !

OlofssonN · August 2015

Then i quit the game, i use as much as i can. tbh i want to use it even more, but i rarely escape with it.
Watch vid, magica low all the time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpcdsiza4T8

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

@OlofssonN

Very entertaining video!

your a stamina nightblade though. In the video you have so much stamina to roll/cc break. If anything you cloak way more then i would on my stamina nb.

If you don't want what i have suggested, the only other option would be to have cost stacking. 5-10% more cost with 3.5 second reset. You must appear visible and expose yourself to reset the cost for 0.5 second's. Cost reset if cloak is broken.

This way stamina nightblade's can still cloak with a slight difference. Then this would prevent magicka nightblade's from being able to spam cloak over 6+ time's in a row and slowly end up loosing 100% up-time.

kaorunandrak · August 2015

Teiji wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

What's up with all the ridiculous NB whine threads today? Popping up like fungi after the rain.

This issue has been beat to death in so many other threads, why rehash them more?

Because people are passionate about this game and want game balance to be done logically and mathematically, not emotionally. Same with class identity and lack of stamina morphs for all classes.

TRUTH

Gunphu · August 2015

STA NB is way easier to play and way more forgiving. Its clear to me you dont know what your doing as a NB. Even with all the tricks a MNB has a STA NB can clear datum, cloak, and break combat way easier. Then re-engage and kill you twice as fast as a MNB.

You ever notice nearly every NB plays STA? Its because MNB has lower burst damage, are the EASIEST class to kill, and its much more difficult to be effective at PvP and PvE. The only thing MNB is good at is being a pest and a surpise proxy det here and there.

All this ranting about MNB and cloak yet I bet the population of MNB actualy goes down once IC is live.

dsalter · August 2015

i would support this but only because gaining speed + invis beats a ball of visible mist