Should Shadow Cloak get the Mist Form treatment?

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

Mist Form got Nerf'd a while back so you could not regenerate magicka during the channel's duration.

When i think about it, with the new change's to Shadow Cloak.. how is this any different to Mist Form before the nerf. You are immune to all single target damage during the duration. Since you cannot break cloak anymore (radiant mage light/AoE/Detect Pot's excluded) magicka nightblade's are sure to get away. Even with these counter's, magicka nightblade's can still create a gap with summon shadow teleport (which make's all above counter's useless) and escape.

I just think Shadow Cloak should have magicka regeneration removed. Now if there is a magicka nightblade spamming cloak, they will eventually run out of resource. There is no such thing as a detection radius when a magicka nightblade wearing light Armour can spam cloak with 100% up time. This way magicka nightblade's wont be able to run so easily if they have poor resource management.

Edit:

Please no comment's about how Mist Form and Shadow Cloak are different. I get that. The point is Cloak can be spammed with no downfall. If you manage to find a hide-y hole, you can endlessly cloak there without anyone knowing your there (while in combat). With this change you will still be able to cloak plenty, just not permanently until your out of combat (unless you play smart of course).

You may say there are already many counter's to cloak but those counter's are really just in-combat counter's. You can run away so fast and break distance that all of these counter's become useless. You end up with your enemy spamming AoE's in random location's to try and find you, yet your long gone spamming cloak's till your out of combat.
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Side note: Can we get sprint access while in Mist Form? It suck's to use a skill with Major Expedition and be stuck walking.

Toomdad · August 2015

Different question for mist form can you break it some how? Not asking in defense to cloak but rather out of annoyance chasing people that are using it.

ThatNeonZebraAgain · August 2015

What's up with all the ridiculous NB whine threads today? Popping up like fungi after the rain.

This issue has been beat to death in so many other threads, why rehash them more?

Dracane · August 2015

Toomdad wrote: »

Different question for mist form can you break it some how? Not asking in defense to cloak but rather out of annoyance chasing people that are using it.

You can't. But you can prevent them from escaping if you're using Roots such as Encase or Talons.
They can't run away, but Mistform remains extremely annoying

And I agree @OP but I don't think, removing regeneration will prevent Nightblades from escaping with cloak. They still have enough Magicka to cloak long enough to fade away without a trace. I think, only a try will show, if it's enough.

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

What's up with all the ridiculous NB whine threads today? Popping up like fungi after the rain.

This issue has been beat to death in so many other threads, why rehash them more?

I'm just trying to prove a point, any magicka nightblade can potentially make some distance then just spam cloak and be fine. This would mean you could potentially catch magicka nightblade's who are sitting around low on magicka waiting to regen. This also help's the fact magicka nightblade's can run around Imperial City without a care in the world, once they run out of magicka they may still have aggro.

This would be nice because instead of magicka nightblade's infinite resource pool for cloak's, they could end up getting caught with no place to go, everywhere they turn it just more dangerous. Then they run out of magicka trying to hide and die.

Dracane wrote: »

Toomdad wrote: »

Different question for mist form can you break it some how? Not asking in defense to cloak but rather out of annoyance chasing people that are using it.

You can't. But you can prevent them from escaping if you're using Roots such as Encase or Talons.
They can't run away, but Mistform remains extremely annoying

And I agree @OP but I don't think, removing regeneration will prevent Nightblades from escaping with cloak. They still have enough Magicka to cloak long enough to fade away without a trace. I think, only a try will show, if it's enough.

Smart magicka nightblade's would always have some resource to get away but with no magicka regen you could potentially find them, since they would be unable to spam it forever.

Teiji · August 2015

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

What's up with all the ridiculous NB whine threads today? Popping up like fungi after the rain.

This issue has been beat to death in so many other threads, why rehash them more?

Because people are passionate about this game and want game balance to be done logically and mathematically, not emotionally. Same with class identity and lack of stamina morphs for all classes.

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

Teiji wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

What's up with all the ridiculous NB whine threads today? Popping up like fungi after the rain.

This issue has been beat to death in so many other threads, why rehash them more?

Because people are passionate about this game and want game balance to be done logically and mathematically, not emotionally. Same with class identity and lack of stamina morphs for all classes.

Couldn't agree more. I swear there are more people on the forum's who complain about other people's feedback, then people who actually post reasonable feedback.

I defiantly agree some classes need more stamina morph's. I wouldn't be apposed to a Shadow Cloak/Summon Shade/Aspect of terror stamina morph.

bowmanz607 · August 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Teiji wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

What's up with all the ridiculous NB whine threads today? Popping up like fungi after the rain.

This issue has been beat to death in so many other threads, why rehash them more?

Because people are passionate about this game and want game balance to be done logically and mathematically, not emotionally. Same with class identity and lack of stamina morphs for all classes.

Couldn't agree more. I swear there are more people on the forum's who complain about other people's feedback, then people who actually post reasonable feedback.

I defiantly agree some classes need more stamina morph's. I wouldn't be apposed to a Shadow Cloak/Summon Shade/Aspect of terror stamina morph.

this

bowmanz607 · August 2015

ya i saw this in another thread. i think it is a perfectly fair solution. that way when it doesnt work and you have to spam it 2 or 3 times to get a full cloak you wont get hurt by cost stacking. at the same time it still applies a meanigful penalty to help eliminate the main problem ppl have with it.

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

bowmanz607 wrote: »

ya i saw this in another thread. i think it is a perfectly fair solution. that way when it doesnt work and you have to spam it 2 or 3 times to get a full cloak you wont get hurt by cost stacking. at the same time it still applies a meanigful penalty to help eliminate the main problem ppl have with it.

Cost stacking is pointless for this skill.

In my opinion cost stacking was the wrong way to balance roll dodging as well. If roll dodge were to just stop stamina regeneration, you would still be able to dodge but be loosing out on the resource battle. You could also use other form's of generation such as enginee guardian or siphoning strike's to continue to roll. This is where a smart player would realize to bash the Dwemer to stop the incoming resource and continue to get the stamina player to CC break and roll more so they will eventually run out.

Roll dodging was a perfectly fine mechanic, however it was abused once you had to much resource. So instead of halting the resource generation, Zos just made the cost stack and ruin it for anyone who didn't have insane amount's of resource.

Stamina build's relie on roll dodge just as much as Magicka build's relie on Cloak. It's these absurd regeneration number's with CP that ruin the game.

AhPook_Is_Here · August 2015

no

Soulac · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Toomdad wrote: »

Different question for mist form can you break it some how? Not asking in defense to cloak but rather out of annoyance chasing people that are using it.

You can't. But you can prevent them from escaping if you're using Roots such as Encase or Talons.
They can't run away, but Mistform remains extremely annoying

And I agree @OP but I don't think, removing regeneration will prevent Nightblades from escaping with cloak. They still have enough Magicka to cloak long enough to fade away without a trace. I think, only a try will show, if it's enough.

*using rapid maneuver*

Mistform is unbreakable and not counterable, Cloak gets countered by AoEs, Potions and Mage Light.
Mistform negates 75% of ALL dmg, Cloak negates Single Target abilities.
Mistform is available for everyone, Cloak is a NB-Only Ability.

As you can see, both abilities have nothing in common except the fact that both cost magicka.
The new cloak fixes are not even live, there are plenty of counters and you already whine for penalties.

Cloak is the only nightblade defense, a skill making nightblade unique.
If NB had any other viable defense as Sorcs do I´d totally understand a penalty, but this is not the case.
NBs are squishy, in my opinion the most easiest to kill and you want to nerf their just fixed cloak?

Kobaal · August 2015

I thought if you used a detect pot a NB can't cloak because you can still see them...

I mean that's what I use to counter cloaking NBs. They can spam cloak all they want, I can still see you.

Xeniph · August 2015

Cloak would have to be guaranteed to work for the full 2.9 second advertised duration. Mistform still provides the full benefit of the ability (75% damage reduction/immunity to stun and controlls) even while rooted.

Also Cloak would need to be "immune" to all counters, including aoe, in respect to revealing the player, for this to truly receive the same treatment. As an example; Caltrops would continue to slow and damage the cloaker, but it would not reveal him. But in all fairness so many things would need to be changed to allow this.

I have said it again and again. Slot the counters and profit. But people refuse to do so and continue to cry wolf. If you still have issues with a cloaker getting away and you were hell bent on chasing them using the counters, you have the issue, it's not the ability.

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

@Soulac The point is to stop endless Cloak spam. Magicka nb's have plenty of defense's. This would not hurt magicka nightblade's that bad. It would just give player's a chance at possibly finding a magicka nightblade.

I'll give you some scenario's.

1- If magicka nightblade's were to keep Regen during Cloak, they could create a gap between them and there opponent and endlessly cloak , never be found. Safe and sound.

2- If magicka nightblade's were to loose Regen during Cloak, they could still create a gap between there opponent but eventually run out of magicka and could possible be found and killed.

In pts, magicka nightblade's can run away from detect potion's or people using AoE/Mage light and continue to spam cloak while in combat until they can go hidden.

Without regen, they cannot just enter combat and endlessly cloak without penatly. The penatly where the magicka nightbalde would eventually run out of magicka and possible be found.

This would not hurt Magicka Nightblade's that are smart, just the one's who are careless.

Dracane · August 2015

Soulac wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Toomdad wrote: »

Different question for mist form can you break it some how? Not asking in defense to cloak but rather out of annoyance chasing people that are using it.

You can't. But you can prevent them from escaping if you're using Roots such as Encase or Talons.
They can't run away, but Mistform remains extremely annoying

And I agree @OP but I don't think, removing regeneration will prevent Nightblades from escaping with cloak. They still have enough Magicka to cloak long enough to fade away without a trace. I think, only a try will show, if it's enough.

*using rapid maneuver*

Mistform is unbreakable and not counterable, Cloak gets countered by AoEs, Potions and Mage Light.
Mistform negates 75% of ALL dmg, Cloak negates Single Target abilities.
Mistform is available for everyone, Cloak is a NB-Only Ability.

As you can see, both abilities have nothing in common except the fact that both cost magicka.
The new cloak fixes are not even live, there are plenty of counters and you already whine for penalties.

Cloak is the only nightblade defense, a skill making nightblade unique.
If NB had any other viable defense as Sorcs do I´d totally understand a penalty, but this is not the case.
NBs are squishy, in my opinion the most easiest to kill and you want to nerf their just fixed cloak?

And why are you quoting me ? I didn't even compare mistform and cloak. Look for another victim please.

And use damage shields if you feel too squishy. Good Magicka Nightblades do and they are a nightmare.

Xael · August 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Mist Form got Nerf'd a while back so you could not regenerate magicka during the channel's duration.

When i think about it, with the new change's to Shadow Cloak.. how is this any different to Mist Form before the nerf. You are immune to all single target damage during the duration. Since you cannot break cloak anymore (radiant mage light/AoE/Detect Pot's excluded) magicka nightblade's are sure to get away. Even with these counter's, magicka nightblade's can still create a gap with summon shadow teleport (which make's all above counter's useless) and escape.

I just think Shadow Cloak should have magicka regeneration removed. Now if there is a magicka nightblade spamming cloak, they will eventually run out of resource. There is no such thing as a detection radius when a magicka nightblade wearing light Armour can spam cloak with 100% up time. This way magicka nightblade's wont be able to run so easily if they have poor resource management.
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Side note: Can we get sprint access while in Mist Form? It suck's to use a skill with Major Expedition and be stuck walking.

Shadowcloak is not Mistform.
Cloak doesn't give you 75% damage reduction (which stacks with other reduction)
Cloak doesn't give you upwards of 60% movement speed (pre nerf), now 30%.
Cloak isn't available to every class.
Cloak doesn't make you immune to crowd control.

Cloak does break on damage, specifically single target. It happened to me this week on PTS when I logged on to prove a point. Also AoEs break cloak, Steel Tornado, etc. If you played on PTS when it was packed with PvP you would realize everyone is spamming AoE.

Comparing Nightblades to other classes is poor reasoning. All 4 classes are distinct and not carbon copies. Comparing skills from a Nightblade to that of another class or skill line is also pointless. They are not the same thing.

Wtf are all you people coming from?
It's like someone kicked over an anthill and everyone is scrambling parroting the same nonsense.

Nightblades are fine. Cloak is fine.

One whiner makes a doomsday thread and now everyone is parroting the same rhetoric even though it's apparent most of them have not even PvPed on PTS. Just stop...

Xeniph · August 2015

Xael wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Mist Form got Nerf'd a while back so you could not regenerate magicka during the channel's duration.

When i think about it, with the new change's to Shadow Cloak.. how is this any different to Mist Form before the nerf. You are immune to all single target damage during the duration. Since you cannot break cloak anymore (radiant mage light/AoE/Detect Pot's excluded) magicka nightblade's are sure to get away. Even with these counter's, magicka nightblade's can still create a gap with summon shadow teleport (which make's all above counter's useless) and escape.

I just think Shadow Cloak should have magicka regeneration removed. Now if there is a magicka nightblade spamming cloak, they will eventually run out of resource. There is no such thing as a detection radius when a magicka nightblade wearing light Armour can spam cloak with 100% up time. This way magicka nightblade's wont be able to run so easily if they have poor resource management.
.
.
.
.
Side note: Can we get sprint access while in Mist Form? It suck's to use a skill with Major Expedition and be stuck walking.

Shadowcloak is not Mistform.
Cloak doesn't give you 75% damage reduction (which stacks with other reduction)
Cloak doesn't give you upwards of 60% movement speed (pre nerf), now 30%.
Cloak isn't available to every class.
Cloak doesn't make you immune to crowd control.

Cloak does break on damage, specifically single target. It happened to me this week on PTS when I logged on to prove a point. Also AoEs break cloak, Steel Tornado, etc. If you played on PTS when it was packed with PvP you would realize everyone is spamming AoE.

Comparing Nightblades to other classes is poor reasoning. All 4 classes are distinct and not carbon copies. Comparing skills from a Nightblade to that of another class or skill line is also pointless. They are not the same thing.

Wtf are all you people coming from?
It's like someone kicked over an anthill and everyone is scrambling parroting the same nonsense.

Nightblades are fine. Cloak is fine.

One whiner makes a doomsday thread and now everyone is parroting the same rhetoric even though it's apparent most of them have not even PvPed on PTS. Just stop...

A lot of them are lurkers hoping to deflect from any more shield changes. The forums blew up when they announced shields being crit (subsequently redacted), mostly from people not even on the PTS. And I firmly believe they are remaining so as to keep discussions from focusing on other issues that are near and dear to them.

Soulac · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Toomdad wrote: »

Different question for mist form can you break it some how? Not asking in defense to cloak but rather out of annoyance chasing people that are using it.

You can't. But you can prevent them from escaping if you're using Roots such as Encase or Talons.
They can't run away, but Mistform remains extremely annoying

And I agree @OP but I don't think, removing regeneration will prevent Nightblades from escaping with cloak. They still have enough Magicka to cloak long enough to fade away without a trace. I think, only a try will show, if it's enough.

*using rapid maneuver*

Mistform is unbreakable and not counterable, Cloak gets countered by AoEs, Potions and Mage Light.
Mistform negates 75% of ALL dmg, Cloak negates Single Target abilities.
Mistform is available for everyone, Cloak is a NB-Only Ability.

As you can see, both abilities have nothing in common except the fact that both cost magicka.
The new cloak fixes are not even live, there are plenty of counters and you already whine for penalties.

Cloak is the only nightblade defense, a skill making nightblade unique.
If NB had any other viable defense as Sorcs do I´d totally understand a penalty, but this is not the case.
NBs are squishy, in my opinion the most easiest to kill and you want to nerf their just fixed cloak?

And why are you quoting me ? I didn't even compare mistform and cloak. Look for another victim please.

And use damage shields if you feel too squishy. Good Magicka Nightblades do and they are a nightmare.

Look at the very first sentence and then you might understand the connection between your post and mine, please look at it.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@Soulac The point is to stop endless Cloak spam. Magicka nb's have plenty of defense's. This would not hurt magicka nightblade's that bad. It would just give player's a chance at possibly finding a magicka nightblade.

I'll give you some scenario's.

1- If magicka nightblade's were to keep Regen during Cloak, they could create a gap between them and there opponent and endlessly cloak , never be found. Safe and sound.

2- If magicka nightblade's were to loose Regen during Cloak, they could still create a gap between there opponent but eventually run out of magicka and could possible be found and killed.

In pts, magicka nightblade's can run away from detect potion's or people using AoE/Mage light and continue to spam cloak while in combat until they can go hidden.

Without regen, they cannot just enter combat and endlessly cloak without penatly. The penatly where the magicka nightbalde would eventually run out of magicka and possible be found.

This would not hurt Magicka Nightblade's that are smart, just the one's who are careless.

Cloak is defense and offense at the same time.
Since you can´t dodge cancel without running out of stamina you need to have some save point to start your attack or would any magicka build start without their shields? Running towards someone without having something for defense up is suicide.
Cloak got enough counters and you could simply fix Flare if it´s really buggy, there is no need for a penalty.

Penalty is only acceptable if Cloak is guaranteed to work the full 2.9 Seconds without ANY skill or mechanic breaking it completly.

VoidParticle · August 2015

Xael wrote: »

Wtf are all you people coming from?
It's like someone kicked over an anthill and everyone is scrambling parroting the same nonsense.

Nightblades are fine. Cloak is fine.

One whiner makes a doomsday thread and now everyone is parroting the same rhetoric even though it's apparent most of them have not even PvPed on PTS. Just stop...

Let me guess... You play NightBlade! It's a wonder why you wouldn't want your class nerfed... But in all honesty I'm betting Orsinium update will likely bring a big change to a lot of class abilities and I'm sure this will get looked at and nerfed. You need to find the sweet spot and right now infinite escape is a stupid game mechanic.

Dracane · August 2015

@Soulac

Omg yes, counters are counterable, nothing new.
Doesn't change the fact, that roots are a counter to mistform. (I'm not protecting mistform, mistform is sick)

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

@soulac So what cloak can be broken and has a couple counter's. This only effect's player's who can go into combat without any draw back's. You can easily teleport away with summon shade or run away and perma cloak till your out of combat.

It's running away with perma-cloak, that's the problem. You should't be able to cloak for 30 second's till your out of combat, that's just silly. There is no risk when entering combat because of the way cloak work's right now. If you are smart you are guaranteed to get out of combat if you want to. With this change you can still get away but you do risk getting seen since you may run out of magicka over 20 something second's of cloak spam or you may actually stop cloaking to regen some magicka for more cloak's.

Most cloak counter's are literally in-combat counter's. When a nightblade doesn't want to be in combat anymore, they just leave and cloak till the end of time.

Xael · August 2015

michael217hillnub18_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Wtf are all you people coming from?
It's like someone kicked over an anthill and everyone is scrambling parroting the same nonsense.

Nightblades are fine. Cloak is fine.

One whiner makes a doomsday thread and now everyone is parroting the same rhetoric even though it's apparent most of them have not even PvPed on PTS. Just stop...

Let me guess... You play NightBlade! It's a wonder why you wouldn't want your class nerfed... But in all honesty I'm betting Orsinium update will likely bring a big change to a lot of class abilities and I'm sure this will get looked at and nerfed. You need to find the sweet spot and right now infinite escape is a stupid game mechanic.

I am a Stamina Sorcerer.
Though I am not shocked by your inability to see beyond your petty bias.

Kobaal · August 2015

michael217hillnub18_ESO wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Wtf are all you people coming from?
It's like someone kicked over an anthill and everyone is scrambling parroting the same nonsense.

Nightblades are fine. Cloak is fine.

One whiner makes a doomsday thread and now everyone is parroting the same rhetoric even though it's apparent most of them have not even PvPed on PTS. Just stop...

Let me guess... You play NightBlade! It's a wonder why you wouldn't want your class nerfed... But in all honesty I'm betting Orsinium update will likely bring a big change to a lot of class abilities and I'm sure this will get looked at and nerfed. You need to find the sweet spot and right now infinite escape is a stupid game mechanic.

Let me guess... You play something other than NightBlade! Its a wonder why you want NB's nerfed.

See, it works both ways.

Soulac · August 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@soulac So what cloak can be broken and has a couple counter's. This only effect's player's who can go into combat without any draw back's. You can easily teleport away with summon shade or run away and perma cloak till your out of combat.

It's running away with perma-cloak, that's the problem. You should't be able to cloak for 30 second's till your out of combat, that's just silly. There is no risk when entering combat because of the way cloak work's right now. If you are smart you are guaranteed to get out of combat if you want to. With this change you can still get away but you do risk getting seen since you may run out of magicka over 20 something second's of cloak spam or you may actually stop cloaking to regen some magicka for more cloak's.

Most cloak counter's are literally in-combat counter's. When a nightblade doesn't want to be in combat anymore, they just leave and cloak till the end of time.

Nightblades are supposed to go in and out of a combat quickly. How is a stamina NB supposed to do it with being able to cast cloak merely three times without having a guaranteed chance if it working. Roll away? Don´t think so.
Shadow Image? Needs to be precasted then, destroying the surprise effect.

If and only if cloak works 100% of the time as all other defense abilities with a penalty do, then we could start talking about penalties.
Why should my cloak cost magicka and stops all magicka reg when I can´t even be sure about it working as it should.

When we start a group and run around barely any NBs escapes us and i don´t see this changing with the next patch.
If you can´t catch a NB using cloak then slot the skills for it. You´d tell me as well to slot gap closers if i want to catch sorcs or use melee attacks if i face a DK using reflect only.

Cloak in is current state shouldn´t have a penalty, it´s not even completly fixed and still buggy.

omfgitsbatman · August 2015

If a magicka nb doesn't get away in 3- 4 cloaks, they probably aren't getting away at all. That being said, this nerf you're asking for is kind of pointless. They will still be able to get those 3-4 cloaks off. If I use food instead of drink (which I would if cloak got this nerf) I would have 40k+ magicka. Magicka NB's will still be able to cast cloak way more than enough.
In cyrodiil, if a magicka nb cannot get behind a tree or rock in 4 cloaks or less when not being actively countered by mark target or the like, they are not doing it right. A magicka nb doesn't necessarily use only cloak to hide- they use it to get hidden, then they use normal stealth. So, unless cloak gets a huge cost increase, this will not matter at all.
The only thing this nerf you are asking for will accomplish is making nb's use stamina and magicka alternately when screaming across the map in stealth.

I am not arguing for or against a nerf to cloak (I play a magicka nightblade, so I'm a little biased on that point)
I am simply saying this nerf you are asking for will not accomplish what you want it to accomplish.

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@soulac So what cloak can be broken and has a couple counter's. This only effect's player's who can go into combat without any draw back's. You can easily teleport away with summon shade or run away and perma cloak till your out of combat.

It's running away with perma-cloak, that's the problem. You should't be able to cloak for 30 second's till your out of combat, that's just silly. There is no risk when entering combat because of the way cloak work's right now. If you are smart you are guaranteed to get out of combat if you want to. With this change you can still get away but you do risk getting seen since you may run out of magicka over 20 something second's of cloak spam or you may actually stop cloaking to regen some magicka for more cloak's.

Most cloak counter's are literally in-combat counter's. When a nightblade doesn't want to be in combat anymore, they just leave and cloak till the end of time.

Nightblades are supposed to go in and out of a combat quickly. How is a stamina NB supposed to do it with being able to cast cloak merely three times without having a guaranteed chance if it working. Roll away? Don´t think so.
Shadow Image? Needs to be precasted then, destroying the surprise effect.

If and only if cloak works 100% of the time as all other defense abilities with a penalty do, then we could start talking about penalties.
Why should my cloak cost magicka and stops all magicka reg when I can´t even be sure about it working as it should.

When we start a group and run around barely any NBs escapes us and i don´t see this changing with the next patch.
If you can´t catch a NB using cloak then slot the skills for it. You´d tell me as well to slot gap closers if i want to catch sorcs or use melee attacks if i face a DK using reflect only.

Cloak in is current state shouldn´t have a penalty, it´s not even completly fixed and still buggy.

A stamina nb could slot Elusive Mist and get way more distance then cloak. Since you need a vampire ability to take advantage of the passive's it's viable. Elusive Mist give's you 4 second's so your roll dodge cost is returned to normal after the channel.

How is a stamina nightblade going to get out of combat even with 5-6 cloak's. You won't be able to go hidden that's for sure. That's where Magicka is different, there is always an Out. Stamina is a completely different play style, Kill or be killed. There is no going back as a stamina nightblade, only forward.

Also your in PTS, there is probably plenty more fixes to come (even to cloak).

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

If a magicka nb doesn't get away in 3- 4 cloaks, they probably aren't getting away at all. That being said, this nerf you're asking for is kind of pointless. They will still be able to get those 3-4 cloaks off. If I use food instead of drink (which I would if cloak got this nerf) I would have 40k+ magicka. Magicka NB's will still be able to cast cloak way more than enough.
In cyrodiil, if a magicka nb cannot get behind a tree or rock in 4 cloaks or less when not being actively countered by mark target or the like, they are not doing it right. A magicka nb doesn't necessarily use only cloak to hide- they use it to get hidden, then they use normal stealth. So, unless cloak gets a huge cost increase, this will not matter at all.
The only thing this nerf you are asking for will accomplish is making nb's use stamina and magicka alternately when screaming across the map in stealth.

Say you hit somebody and the fight took a turn for the worst. Your now "in-combat". You will still need to cloak permanently or go behind a rock like you said. However you should still be in combat for around 30 second's. If there are competent player's who are looking for you, you will run out of resource or you will kite them (smart player/regen resource's) and manage to stay away from your pursuer's.

This isn't a big change for outside of IC, it's a big change inside IC. You will still be able to cloak around.. stop regen and continue. However there will be moment's when your like a mouse in a maze full of cat's, no where to go and your resource pool running low. No more sitting in one location cloaking until your safe, you will have to find a safe area and hope the npc's forgot about you (if you aggro'd them in the first place that is). You may be surrounded by both alliances with no were to go and regen magicka (if your in combat and can't re-stealth), which leave's you open to be seen for once.

Soulac · August 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@soulac So what cloak can be broken and has a couple counter's. This only effect's player's who can go into combat without any draw back's. You can easily teleport away with summon shade or run away and perma cloak till your out of combat.

It's running away with perma-cloak, that's the problem. You should't be able to cloak for 30 second's till your out of combat, that's just silly. There is no risk when entering combat because of the way cloak work's right now. If you are smart you are guaranteed to get out of combat if you want to. With this change you can still get away but you do risk getting seen since you may run out of magicka over 20 something second's of cloak spam or you may actually stop cloaking to regen some magicka for more cloak's.

Most cloak counter's are literally in-combat counter's. When a nightblade doesn't want to be in combat anymore, they just leave and cloak till the end of time.

Nightblades are supposed to go in and out of a combat quickly. How is a stamina NB supposed to do it with being able to cast cloak merely three times without having a guaranteed chance if it working. Roll away? Don´t think so.
Shadow Image? Needs to be precasted then, destroying the surprise effect.

If and only if cloak works 100% of the time as all other defense abilities with a penalty do, then we could start talking about penalties.
Why should my cloak cost magicka and stops all magicka reg when I can´t even be sure about it working as it should.

When we start a group and run around barely any NBs escapes us and i don´t see this changing with the next patch.
If you can´t catch a NB using cloak then slot the skills for it. You´d tell me as well to slot gap closers if i want to catch sorcs or use melee attacks if i face a DK using reflect only.

Cloak in is current state shouldn´t have a penalty, it´s not even completly fixed and still buggy.

A stamina nb could slot Elusive Mist and get way more distance then cloak. Since you need a vampire ability to take advantage of the passive's it's viable. Elusive Mist give's you 4 second's so your roll dodge cost is returned to normal after the channel.

How is a stamina nightblade going to get out of combat even with 5-6 cloak's. You won't be able to go hidden that's for sure. That's where Magicka is different, there is always an Out. Stamina is a completely different play style, Kill or be killed. There is no going back as a stamina nightblade, only forward.

Also your in PTS, there is probably plenty more fixes to come (even to cloak).

So i should slot elusive mist and be a vamp having counters which are not dodgeable?
You know.. instead i should be able to rely on my class-only defense as well.

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@soulac So what cloak can be broken and has a couple counter's. This only effect's player's who can go into combat without any draw back's. You can easily teleport away with summon shade or run away and perma cloak till your out of combat.

It's running away with perma-cloak, that's the problem. You should't be able to cloak for 30 second's till your out of combat, that's just silly. There is no risk when entering combat because of the way cloak work's right now. If you are smart you are guaranteed to get out of combat if you want to. With this change you can still get away but you do risk getting seen since you may run out of magicka over 20 something second's of cloak spam or you may actually stop cloaking to regen some magicka for more cloak's.

Most cloak counter's are literally in-combat counter's. When a nightblade doesn't want to be in combat anymore, they just leave and cloak till the end of time.

Nightblades are supposed to go in and out of a combat quickly. How is a stamina NB supposed to do it with being able to cast cloak merely three times without having a guaranteed chance if it working. Roll away? Don´t think so.
Shadow Image? Needs to be precasted then, destroying the surprise effect.

If and only if cloak works 100% of the time as all other defense abilities with a penalty do, then we could start talking about penalties.
Why should my cloak cost magicka and stops all magicka reg when I can´t even be sure about it working as it should.

When we start a group and run around barely any NBs escapes us and i don´t see this changing with the next patch.
If you can´t catch a NB using cloak then slot the skills for it. You´d tell me as well to slot gap closers if i want to catch sorcs or use melee attacks if i face a DK using reflect only.

Cloak in is current state shouldn´t have a penalty, it´s not even completly fixed and still buggy.

A stamina nb could slot Elusive Mist and get way more distance then cloak. Since you need a vampire ability to take advantage of the passive's it's viable. Elusive Mist give's you 4 second's so your roll dodge cost is returned to normal after the channel.

How is a stamina nightblade going to get out of combat even with 5-6 cloak's. You won't be able to go hidden that's for sure. That's where Magicka is different, there is always an Out. Stamina is a completely different play style, Kill or be killed. There is no going back as a stamina nightblade, only forward.

Also your in PTS, there is probably plenty more fixes to come (even to cloak).

So i should slot elusive mist and be a vamp having counters which are not dodgeable?
You know.. instead i should be able to rely on my class-only defense as well.

Cloak is still a fine defense, you can use it as a stamina nightblade. The point is you can't endlessly cloak as a stamina nightblade and forget about your engagement. You actually have to man up and win your fight since that's the only way you will be able to go hidden (unless you wait 30 second's somewhere safe and manage to juke your opponent).

The point is, you can hide almost anywhere as a magicka nightblade and avoid detection until your out of combat after a fight went sour. Stamina Nightblade's cannot to that with such ease.

If you want to run and hide with a stamina nb your better off popping an invisibility potion.

Kobaal · August 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@soulac So what cloak can be broken and has a couple counter's. This only effect's player's who can go into combat without any draw back's. You can easily teleport away with summon shade or run away and perma cloak till your out of combat.

It's running away with perma-cloak, that's the problem. You should't be able to cloak for 30 second's till your out of combat, that's just silly. There is no risk when entering combat because of the way cloak work's right now. If you are smart you are guaranteed to get out of combat if you want to. With this change you can still get away but you do risk getting seen since you may run out of magicka over 20 something second's of cloak spam or you may actually stop cloaking to regen some magicka for more cloak's.

Most cloak counter's are literally in-combat counter's. When a nightblade doesn't want to be in combat anymore, they just leave and cloak till the end of time.

Nightblades are supposed to go in and out of a combat quickly. How is a stamina NB supposed to do it with being able to cast cloak merely three times without having a guaranteed chance if it working. Roll away? Don´t think so.
Shadow Image? Needs to be precasted then, destroying the surprise effect.

If and only if cloak works 100% of the time as all other defense abilities with a penalty do, then we could start talking about penalties.
Why should my cloak cost magicka and stops all magicka reg when I can´t even be sure about it working as it should.

When we start a group and run around barely any NBs escapes us and i don´t see this changing with the next patch.
If you can´t catch a NB using cloak then slot the skills for it. You´d tell me as well to slot gap closers if i want to catch sorcs or use melee attacks if i face a DK using reflect only.

Cloak in is current state shouldn´t have a penalty, it´s not even completly fixed and still buggy.

A stamina nb could slot Elusive Mist and get way more distance then cloak. Since you need a vampire ability to take advantage of the passive's it's viable. Elusive Mist give's you 4 second's so your roll dodge cost is returned to normal after the channel.

How is a stamina nightblade going to get out of combat even with 5-6 cloak's. You won't be able to go hidden that's for sure. That's where Magicka is different, there is always an Out. Stamina is a completely different play style, Kill or be killed. There is no going back as a stamina nightblade, only forward.

Also your in PTS, there is probably plenty more fixes to come (even to cloak).

Bro, bro, Shhhhhhh. That's going to be the next nerf NB thread after they get tired of Cloak and they realize perma dodge roll is still viable in IC, especially since they "fixed" the only abilities that hit through dodge.