Argonian Racial Passives: A Very Desperate Plea

13igTyme · August 2015

As it is right now the best races are ones that max a base stat. For magicka it's Altmer, Breton, and Dunmer, who have +10%, +10%, and +9% respectively. Then for stamina it's Imperials and Redguards who have both have +10%. Then there are all the other races, just kind of thrown in there and mostly not even considered a good race since the removal of soft caps. I honestly think every race should have some combination of +Magicka/Stamina/Health then maybe some +regen.

Imperials have +10% stamina and +12% health making them a good race not only for stamina but also anything really. +12% health is huge. But they are balanced with Redguards, because one get more health while the other gets +9% regen. Dunmer are balanced with Altmer/Breton since they get +3% stamina on top of their +9% magicka. Breton and Altmer are balanced since you choose from +9% regen or reduced cost, though IMO the reduced cost needs to be a little bit higher.

If for example the other races; Orc, Khajiit, Nord, Argonian, Bosmer, all got some sort of increase they would be more appealing. Currently Orcs get +6% stamina and Health, Bosmer get +3% Stamina and +21% regen, Nords get +3% health, Argonians get +3% health, and Khajiit get nothing. Orcs and Bosmer are close to being competitive with the stamina classes, but it just isn't enough with 0, count them 0, soft caps.

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2015

The Dunmer never 'kept the lizard folk in line'. All they did is capture people on the outskirts of Black Marsh. Lets see how proud and important the Dunmer are in the heart of the swamps.

Fizzlewizzle · August 2015

I think that most passives fit pretty well with the Argonians (as some people already mentioned).
Argonians always had an affinity with water. Since you can't swim underwater here, i get why they changed Waterbreathing for swimming speed.

Poison resistance also fits them very well. Lots of enemies (and plants) in Black marsh (lore) are poisonous, so having an increased resistance against it does fit them.

Potions i'm neutral about. Not really a huge lore fact about that, and it isn't that useless... besides the fact that the bonus is a bit weak. The old (pre 1.5) bonus was pretty good (same for the Nightblade bonus), as you could actually make epic potions.
Now it seems a bit lackluster.

The Rapid Mending perk bugs me however.
Argonians are known for their faster regeneration rates. Regeneration isn't the same as getting healed.
Recovering from a cut in half the time, or completely regaining your arm after it was cut off because someone put a bandaid on it, while any other race would need a huge medical treatment to regain a limb in the same situation are two completely different things.

For Argonians it would seem more appropriate to have the Robust passive over any other class. And not even a normal Robust, but an upgraded version of Robust. Something like "For every 10% of HP you love you gain 5/10/15% more health regeneration"
Some might say that health regen isn't that useful, but that is easy to say if people don't bother working with it.

I do not get however why people always claim that argonians need stealth and sneak passives.
Only a select few Argonians (those born under the sign of the shadow) will be trained as assassins. Being an assassin and a Guerilla fighter are two completely different things.

tinythinker · August 2015

Selique wrote: »

Argonian Nightblades should get a cool passive for being epic Shadowscales....

Junkogen wrote: »

Right? The whole Shadowfen questline revolves around Shadowscales and then you look at the Argonian passives and wonder how that fits. I think ZOS really dropped the ball and the only way it has a chance of getting corrected is if we all speak up, write in-game feedback, and demand that they fix the Argonians.

A new customizeable racial passive system (see Argonians in the first example).

Junkogen · August 2015

tinythinker wrote: »

Selique wrote: »

Argonian Nightblades should get a cool passive for being epic Shadowscales....

Junkogen wrote: »

Right? The whole Shadowfen questline revolves around Shadowscales and then you look at the Argonian passives and wonder how that fits. I think ZOS really dropped the ball and the only way it has a chance of getting corrected is if we all speak up, write in-game feedback, and demand that they fix the Argonians.

A new customizeable racial passive system (see Argonians in the first example).

I'm all for it. However, ZOS would never go for it because they have too much pride and refuse to use other people's ideas no matter how much it would help the game. They think their original design was essentially perfect and are very reluctant to change anything. The veteran rank system is a perfect example.

Also, they obviously hate redesigning things. In this latest round of passive tweaks we saw this. They wanted to work within their flawed system. I've seen some players produce some spectacular analyses of abilities complete with graphs and calculations. I wonder if ZOS does anything like that. Clearly not. It seems like on Wrobel's crew they just do things because it looks right and seems fair rather than doing real comparisons with actual math and objective evidence.

They also don't seem to take into account the entirety of the game. For instance, max stats not only provide more resources, but also more damage and stronger spells. So, for instance, a Breton not only has 10% max magicka, but also stronger spells that cause more damage, allow for more casts, and heal for more. How can ZOS not see that that's a much greater and more useful passive than something that only affects healing or potions? There's a frustrating level of incompetence.

Junkogen · August 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I think that most passives fit pretty well with the Argonians (as some people already mentioned).
Argonians always had an affinity with water. Since you can't swim underwater here, i get why they changed Waterbreathing for swimming speed.

Poison resistance also fits them very well. Lots of enemies (and plants) in Black marsh (lore) are poisonous, so having an increased resistance against it does fit them.

Potions i'm neutral about. Not really a huge lore fact about that, and it isn't that useless... besides the fact that the bonus is a bit weak. The old (pre 1.5) bonus was pretty good (same for the Nightblade bonus), as you could actually make epic potions.
Now it seems a bit lackluster.

The Rapid Mending perk bugs me however.
Argonians are known for their faster regeneration rates. Regeneration isn't the same as getting healed.
Recovering from a cut in half the time, or completely regaining your arm after it was cut off because someone put a bandaid on it, while any other race would need a huge medical treatment to regain a limb in the same situation are two completely different things.

For Argonians it would seem more appropriate to have the Robust passive over any other class. And not even a normal Robust, but an upgraded version of Robust. Something like "For every 10% of HP you love you gain 5/10/15% more health regeneration"
Some might say that health regen isn't that useful, but that is easy to say if people don't bother working with it.

I do not get however why people always claim that argonians need stealth and sneak passives.
Only a select few Argonians (those born under the sign of the shadow) will be trained as assassins. Being an assassin and a Guerilla fighter are two completely different things.

Guerilla fighting utilizes sneaking and ambushing, the element of surprise, to gain a tactical advantage. So I don't understand why you think they're completely different. Assassins and guerrillas employ similar tactics.

13igTyme · August 2015

Junkogen wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I think that most passives fit pretty well with the Argonians (as some people already mentioned).
Argonians always had an affinity with water. Since you can't swim underwater here, i get why they changed Waterbreathing for swimming speed.

Poison resistance also fits them very well. Lots of enemies (and plants) in Black marsh (lore) are poisonous, so having an increased resistance against it does fit them.

Potions i'm neutral about. Not really a huge lore fact about that, and it isn't that useless... besides the fact that the bonus is a bit weak. The old (pre 1.5) bonus was pretty good (same for the Nightblade bonus), as you could actually make epic potions.
Now it seems a bit lackluster.

The Rapid Mending perk bugs me however.
Argonians are known for their faster regeneration rates. Regeneration isn't the same as getting healed.
Recovering from a cut in half the time, or completely regaining your arm after it was cut off because someone put a bandaid on it, while any other race would need a huge medical treatment to regain a limb in the same situation are two completely different things.

For Argonians it would seem more appropriate to have the Robust passive over any other class. And not even a normal Robust, but an upgraded version of Robust. Something like "For every 10% of HP you love you gain 5/10/15% more health regeneration"
Some might say that health regen isn't that useful, but that is easy to say if people don't bother working with it.

I do not get however why people always claim that argonians need stealth and sneak passives.
Only a select few Argonians (those born under the sign of the shadow) will be trained as assassins. Being an assassin and a Guerilla fighter are two completely different things.

Guerilla fighting utilizes sneaking and ambushing, the element of surprise, to gain a tactical advantage. So I don't understand why you think they're completely different. Assassins and guerrillas employ similar tactics.

They have similar tactics, but generally Assassins only kill one or two targets and witnesses, Guerrilla fighters kill everyone.

Junkogen · August 2015

13igTyme wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I think that most passives fit pretty well with the Argonians (as some people already mentioned).
Argonians always had an affinity with water. Since you can't swim underwater here, i get why they changed Waterbreathing for swimming speed.

Poison resistance also fits them very well. Lots of enemies (and plants) in Black marsh (lore) are poisonous, so having an increased resistance against it does fit them.

Potions i'm neutral about. Not really a huge lore fact about that, and it isn't that useless... besides the fact that the bonus is a bit weak. The old (pre 1.5) bonus was pretty good (same for the Nightblade bonus), as you could actually make epic potions.
Now it seems a bit lackluster.

The Rapid Mending perk bugs me however.
Argonians are known for their faster regeneration rates. Regeneration isn't the same as getting healed.
Recovering from a cut in half the time, or completely regaining your arm after it was cut off because someone put a bandaid on it, while any other race would need a huge medical treatment to regain a limb in the same situation are two completely different things.

For Argonians it would seem more appropriate to have the Robust passive over any other class. And not even a normal Robust, but an upgraded version of Robust. Something like "For every 10% of HP you love you gain 5/10/15% more health regeneration"
Some might say that health regen isn't that useful, but that is easy to say if people don't bother working with it.

I do not get however why people always claim that argonians need stealth and sneak passives.
Only a select few Argonians (those born under the sign of the shadow) will be trained as assassins. Being an assassin and a Guerilla fighter are two completely different things.

Guerilla fighting utilizes sneaking and ambushing, the element of surprise, to gain a tactical advantage. So I don't understand why you think they're completely different. Assassins and guerrillas employ similar tactics.

They have similar tactics, but generally Assassins only kill one or two targets and witnesses, Guerrilla fighters kill everyone.

Well, apparently in this game, Argonians do neither and heal everything instead.

tinythinker · August 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

The Rapid Mending perk bugs me however.
Argonians are known for their faster regeneration rates. Regeneration isn't the same as getting healed.
Recovering from a cut in half the time, or completely regaining your arm after it was cut off because someone put a bandaid on it, while any other race would need a huge medical treatment to regain a limb in the same situation are two completely different things.

For Argonians it would seem more appropriate to have the Robust passive over any other class. And not even a normal Robust, but an upgraded version of Robust. Something like "For every 10% of HP you love you gain 5/10/15% more health regeneration"
Some might say that health regen isn't that useful, but that is easy to say if people don't bother working with it.

You can have both healing received and healing regen. It's a staple of all of my Argonian racial schemes. But health regen is always low and it's easier to stack magicka or stamina. ZOS originally took health regen off of a Mundus stone bonus (before putting it back somewhere else) because they realized it would need to be huge to be effective. Higher max health, bonus to healing received, and a huge bonus to healing regen would make Argonians an interesting choice for some players as they would have better suitability and could still use gear/stats to stack other stats.

The potion passive might be OK if it looked more like this (in the current passive system):

Amphibious
Increases Swimming Speed by 50% while reducing potion cool-down by 5/10/15 seconds and returning 6/12/18% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina when a potion is consumed.

Fizzlewizzle · August 2015

tinythinker wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

The Rapid Mending perk bugs me however.
Argonians are known for their faster regeneration rates. Regeneration isn't the same as getting healed.
Recovering from a cut in half the time, or completely regaining your arm after it was cut off because someone put a bandaid on it, while any other race would need a huge medical treatment to regain a limb in the same situation are two completely different things.

For Argonians it would seem more appropriate to have the Robust passive over any other class. And not even a normal Robust, but an upgraded version of Robust. Something like "For every 10% of HP you love you gain 5/10/15% more health regeneration"
Some might say that health regen isn't that useful, but that is easy to say if people don't bother working with it.

You can have both healing received and healing regen. It's a staple of all of my Argonian racial schemes. But health regen is always low and it's easier to stack magicka or stamina. ZOS originally took health regen off of a Mundus stone bonus (before putting it back somewhere else) because they realized it would need to be huge to be effective. Higher max health, bonus to healing received, and a huge bonus to healing regen would make Argonians an interesting choice for some players as they would have better suitability and could still use gear/stats to stack other stats.

The potion passive might be OK if it looked more like this (in the current passive system):

Amphibious
Increases Swimming Speed by 50% while reducing potion cool-down by 5/10/15 seconds and returning 6/12/18% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina when a potion is consumed.

I personally like health regen, since you can do some fun things with it.
It irritates me that they are removing it (again) from the mundus stones, the bonus is pretty good, if you know how to utilize it. I personally hated it when they removed the old Restoring aura effect. The 80% bonus was great for health regen.
Healing taken and Health regen is a good combo regardless of Class or playstyle, as no class or playstyle can do anything when they are dead.

The potion passive you suggested is a bit OP.
If you want to combo potion cooldowns with resource return then i think you should half the return bonus.
(Since you can get a use of it more often because of the cooldown.)

tinythinker · August 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

The Rapid Mending perk bugs me however.
Argonians are known for their faster regeneration rates. Regeneration isn't the same as getting healed.
Recovering from a cut in half the time, or completely regaining your arm after it was cut off because someone put a bandaid on it, while any other race would need a huge medical treatment to regain a limb in the same situation are two completely different things.

For Argonians it would seem more appropriate to have the Robust passive over any other class. And not even a normal Robust, but an upgraded version of Robust. Something like "For every 10% of HP you love you gain 5/10/15% more health regeneration"
Some might say that health regen isn't that useful, but that is easy to say if people don't bother working with it.

You can have both healing received and healing regen. It's a staple of all of my Argonian racial schemes. But health regen is always low and it's easier to stack magicka or stamina. ZOS originally took health regen off of a Mundus stone bonus (before putting it back somewhere else) because they realized it would need to be huge to be effective. Higher max health, bonus to healing received, and a huge bonus to healing regen would make Argonians an interesting choice for some players as they would have better suitability and could still use gear/stats to stack other stats.

The potion passive might be OK if it looked more like this (in the current passive system):

Amphibious
Increases Swimming Speed by 50% while reducing potion cool-down by 5/10/15 seconds and returning 6/12/18% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina when a potion is consumed.

I personally like health regen, since you can do some fun things with it.
It irritates me that they are removing it (again) from the mundus stones, the bonus is pretty good, if you know how to utilize it. I personally hated it when they removed the old Restoring aura effect. The 80% bonus was great for health regen.
Healing taken and Health regen is a good combo regardless of Class or playstyle, as no class or playstyle can do anything when they are dead.

The potion passive you suggested is a bit OP.
If you want to combo potion cooldowns with resource return then i think you should half the return bonus.
(Since you can get a use of it more often because of the cooldown.)

Yes, but they would half it anyway if they accepted the idea, so you open with a higher bid.

Matem · August 2015

13igTyme wrote: »

As it is right now the best races are ones that max a base stat. For magicka it's Altmer, Breton, and Dunmer, who have +10%, +10%, and +9% respectively. Then for stamina it's Imperials and Redguards who have both have +10%. Then there are all the other races, just kind of thrown in there and mostly not even considered a good race since the removal of soft caps. I honestly think every race should have some combination of +Magicka/Stamina/Health then maybe some +regen.

Imperials have +10% stamina and +12% health making them a good race not only for stamina but also anything really. +12% health is huge. But they are balanced with Redguards, because one get more health while the other gets +9% regen. Dunmer are balanced with Altmer/Breton since they get +3% stamina on top of their +9% magicka. Breton and Altmer are balanced since you choose from +9% regen or reduced cost, though IMO the reduced cost needs to be a little bit higher.

If for example the other races; Orc, Khajiit, Nord, Argonian, Bosmer, all got some sort of increase they would be more appealing. Currently Orcs get +6% stamina and Health, Bosmer get +3% Stamina and +21% regen, Nords get +3% health, Argonians get +3% health, and Khajiit get nothing. Orcs and Bosmer are close to being competitive with the stamina classes, but it just isn't enough with 0, count them 0, soft caps.

This perfectly describes what is wrong with racials, especially argonians.
And on top of that, next patch altmer racials are even getting a buff...

I mean come on zenimax.

Cpl_Punishmentt · August 2015

#argonianlivesmatter

Just kidding, no they don't! Bosmer for life! (or until they give us a race change and I can make him an Imperial)

13igTyme · August 2015

Junkogen wrote: »

13igTyme wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I think that most passives fit pretty well with the Argonians (as some people already mentioned).
Argonians always had an affinity with water. Since you can't swim underwater here, i get why they changed Waterbreathing for swimming speed.

Poison resistance also fits them very well. Lots of enemies (and plants) in Black marsh (lore) are poisonous, so having an increased resistance against it does fit them.

Potions i'm neutral about. Not really a huge lore fact about that, and it isn't that useless... besides the fact that the bonus is a bit weak. The old (pre 1.5) bonus was pretty good (same for the Nightblade bonus), as you could actually make epic potions.
Now it seems a bit lackluster.

The Rapid Mending perk bugs me however.
Argonians are known for their faster regeneration rates. Regeneration isn't the same as getting healed.
Recovering from a cut in half the time, or completely regaining your arm after it was cut off because someone put a bandaid on it, while any other race would need a huge medical treatment to regain a limb in the same situation are two completely different things.

For Argonians it would seem more appropriate to have the Robust passive over any other class. And not even a normal Robust, but an upgraded version of Robust. Something like "For every 10% of HP you love you gain 5/10/15% more health regeneration"
Some might say that health regen isn't that useful, but that is easy to say if people don't bother working with it.

I do not get however why people always claim that argonians need stealth and sneak passives.
Only a select few Argonians (those born under the sign of the shadow) will be trained as assassins. Being an assassin and a Guerilla fighter are two completely different things.

Guerilla fighting utilizes sneaking and ambushing, the element of surprise, to gain a tactical advantage. So I don't understand why you think they're completely different. Assassins and guerrillas employ similar tactics.

They have similar tactics, but generally Assassins only kill one or two targets and witnesses, Guerrilla fighters kill everyone.

Well, apparently in this game, Argonians do neither and heal everything instead.

Guerrilla healers? Using stealth to... ambush allies?

Fizzlewizzle · August 2015

13igTyme wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

13igTyme wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I think that most passives fit pretty well with the Argonians (as some people already mentioned).
Argonians always had an affinity with water. Since you can't swim underwater here, i get why they changed Waterbreathing for swimming speed.

Poison resistance also fits them very well. Lots of enemies (and plants) in Black marsh (lore) are poisonous, so having an increased resistance against it does fit them.

Potions i'm neutral about. Not really a huge lore fact about that, and it isn't that useless... besides the fact that the bonus is a bit weak. The old (pre 1.5) bonus was pretty good (same for the Nightblade bonus), as you could actually make epic potions.
Now it seems a bit lackluster.

The Rapid Mending perk bugs me however.
Argonians are known for their faster regeneration rates. Regeneration isn't the same as getting healed.
Recovering from a cut in half the time, or completely regaining your arm after it was cut off because someone put a bandaid on it, while any other race would need a huge medical treatment to regain a limb in the same situation are two completely different things.

For Argonians it would seem more appropriate to have the Robust passive over any other class. And not even a normal Robust, but an upgraded version of Robust. Something like "For every 10% of HP you love you gain 5/10/15% more health regeneration"
Some might say that health regen isn't that useful, but that is easy to say if people don't bother working with it.

I do not get however why people always claim that argonians need stealth and sneak passives.
Only a select few Argonians (those born under the sign of the shadow) will be trained as assassins. Being an assassin and a Guerilla fighter are two completely different things.

Guerilla fighting utilizes sneaking and ambushing, the element of surprise, to gain a tactical advantage. So I don't understand why you think they're completely different. Assassins and guerrillas employ similar tactics.

They have similar tactics, but generally Assassins only kill one or two targets and witnesses, Guerrilla fighters kill everyone.

Well, apparently in this game, Argonians do neither and heal everything instead.

Guerrilla healers? Using stealth to... ambush allies?

I think he's just referring to the healing received and Restoration staff bonus.

Neither of those bonuses affect other people, so i don't really get the connection. Argonian passives are all self centered (Stamina and Magicka affects healing and damage, thus also affecting other people). Non of their bonuses will ever cause (extra) harm to any other creature in the game, it only promotes their own survival. What they do however with that extra survivability they have is up the player's choice.

13igTyme · August 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

13igTyme wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

13igTyme wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I think that most passives fit pretty well with the Argonians (as some people already mentioned).
Argonians always had an affinity with water. Since you can't swim underwater here, i get why they changed Waterbreathing for swimming speed.

Poison resistance also fits them very well. Lots of enemies (and plants) in Black marsh (lore) are poisonous, so having an increased resistance against it does fit them.

Potions i'm neutral about. Not really a huge lore fact about that, and it isn't that useless... besides the fact that the bonus is a bit weak. The old (pre 1.5) bonus was pretty good (same for the Nightblade bonus), as you could actually make epic potions.
Now it seems a bit lackluster.

The Rapid Mending perk bugs me however.
Argonians are known for their faster regeneration rates. Regeneration isn't the same as getting healed.
Recovering from a cut in half the time, or completely regaining your arm after it was cut off because someone put a bandaid on it, while any other race would need a huge medical treatment to regain a limb in the same situation are two completely different things.

For Argonians it would seem more appropriate to have the Robust passive over any other class. And not even a normal Robust, but an upgraded version of Robust. Something like "For every 10% of HP you love you gain 5/10/15% more health regeneration"
Some might say that health regen isn't that useful, but that is easy to say if people don't bother working with it.

I do not get however why people always claim that argonians need stealth and sneak passives.
Only a select few Argonians (those born under the sign of the shadow) will be trained as assassins. Being an assassin and a Guerilla fighter are two completely different things.

Guerilla fighting utilizes sneaking and ambushing, the element of surprise, to gain a tactical advantage. So I don't understand why you think they're completely different. Assassins and guerrillas employ similar tactics.

They have similar tactics, but generally Assassins only kill one or two targets and witnesses, Guerrilla fighters kill everyone.

Well, apparently in this game, Argonians do neither and heal everything instead.

Guerrilla healers? Using stealth to... ambush allies?

I think he's just referring to the healing received and Restoration staff bonus.

Neither of those bonuses affect other people, so i don't really get the connection. Argonian passives are all self centered (Stamina and Magicka affects healing and damage, thus also affecting other people). Non of their bonuses will ever cause (extra) harm to any other creature in the game, it only promotes their own survival. What they do however with that extra survivability they have is up the player's choice.

Yes, it's called a joke. Thank you for ruining it.

RAGUNAnoOne · August 2015

Cpl_Punishmentt wrote: »

#argonianlivesmatter

Just kidding, no they don't! Bosmer for life! (or until they give us a race change and I can make him an Imperial)

Perhaps I should send a few of my Scale-siblings to eat your bosmer...no, with our racials we will be at a severe disadvantage unless we are swimming...wait, there is no fighting in water, potion time... what it only works every 45 seconds and the bonus suck anyway what can we do!

Fizzlewizzle · August 2015

13igTyme wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

13igTyme wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

13igTyme wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I think that most passives fit pretty well with the Argonians (as some people already mentioned).
Argonians always had an affinity with water. Since you can't swim underwater here, i get why they changed Waterbreathing for swimming speed.

Poison resistance also fits them very well. Lots of enemies (and plants) in Black marsh (lore) are poisonous, so having an increased resistance against it does fit them.

Potions i'm neutral about. Not really a huge lore fact about that, and it isn't that useless... besides the fact that the bonus is a bit weak. The old (pre 1.5) bonus was pretty good (same for the Nightblade bonus), as you could actually make epic potions.
Now it seems a bit lackluster.

The Rapid Mending perk bugs me however.
Argonians are known for their faster regeneration rates. Regeneration isn't the same as getting healed.
Recovering from a cut in half the time, or completely regaining your arm after it was cut off because someone put a bandaid on it, while any other race would need a huge medical treatment to regain a limb in the same situation are two completely different things.

For Argonians it would seem more appropriate to have the Robust passive over any other class. And not even a normal Robust, but an upgraded version of Robust. Something like "For every 10% of HP you love you gain 5/10/15% more health regeneration"
Some might say that health regen isn't that useful, but that is easy to say if people don't bother working with it.

I do not get however why people always claim that argonians need stealth and sneak passives.
Only a select few Argonians (those born under the sign of the shadow) will be trained as assassins. Being an assassin and a Guerilla fighter are two completely different things.

Guerilla fighting utilizes sneaking and ambushing, the element of surprise, to gain a tactical advantage. So I don't understand why you think they're completely different. Assassins and guerrillas employ similar tactics.

They have similar tactics, but generally Assassins only kill one or two targets and witnesses, Guerrilla fighters kill everyone.

Well, apparently in this game, Argonians do neither and heal everything instead.

Guerrilla healers? Using stealth to... ambush allies?

I think he's just referring to the healing received and Restoration staff bonus.

Neither of those bonuses affect other people, so i don't really get the connection. Argonian passives are all self centered (Stamina and Magicka affects healing and damage, thus also affecting other people). Non of their bonuses will ever cause (extra) harm to any other creature in the game, it only promotes their own survival. What they do however with that extra survivability they have is up the player's choice.

Yes, it's called a joke. Thank you for ruining it.

It's quite hard to detect jokes/ sarcasm within written language without the writer mentioning it him/herself.
(You would be surprised how many people have written sentences similar to what you just wrote as a genuine question rather than a jest.)

That aside... Regardless of it being a joke or not, it would be a fun thing if it was actually an Argonian Passive.
Added to Quick to Mend: "Healing done from stealth will heal 3 times the normal amount"
Sort of like sneak healing. A sneak attack is 3 times the damage of a normal attack, so a sneak heal would heal 3 times the normal amount.

Would make a very powerful passive.

Paazhahdrimaak · August 2015

My Happyscale with his potion bonuses and healing bonuses really help. He's a healer and those stats help him perfectly. I don't won't them to change my Happyscale.

Selique · August 2015

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

My Happyscale with his potion bonuses and healing bonuses really help. He's a healer and those stats help him perfectly. I don't won't them to change my Happyscale.

Your "Happyscale" passives don't help my wanted Shadowscale passives

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Xendyn · August 2015

Matem wrote: »

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This perfectly describes what is wrong with racials, especially argonians.
And on top of that, next patch altmer racials are even getting a buff...
I mean come on zenimax.

They reverted that change.

13igTyme · August 2015

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

My Happyscale with his potion bonuses and healing bonuses really help. He's a healer and those stats help him perfectly. I don't won't them to change my Happyscale.

You're Happyscale isn't nearly as effective as a race that gives +magicka. If your doing PVE, why do you need to pop potions or heal your self a lot? Don't you have a tank? If your doing PVP Just remember how minuscule 6% healing self healing is when your being pummeled and that potions can only be used every 45 seconds.

RAGUNAnoOne · August 2015

@13igTyme Paazhhahdrimaak may not have a choice and has to go alone hence the need for potions. not everyone has groups or friends in RL who play and people who are not a high level have the lowest chances of ever teaming up with someone. very few people want to team up with someone like me 29 when they can go for the 50+ guy/gal next to me, even lower level people go for top players mostly.

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

I think that most passives fit pretty well with the Argonians (as some people already mentioned).
Argonians always had an affinity with water. Since you can't swim underwater here, i get why they changed Waterbreathing for swimming speed.

Poison resistance also fits them very well. Lots of enemies (and plants) in Black marsh (lore) are poisonous, so having an increased resistance against it does fit them.

Potions i'm neutral about. Not really a huge lore fact about that, and it isn't that useless... besides the fact that the bonus is a bit weak. The old (pre 1.5) bonus was pretty good (same for the Nightblade bonus), as you could actually make epic potions.
Now it seems a bit lackluster.

The Rapid Mending perk bugs me however.
Argonians are known for their faster regeneration rates. Regeneration isn't the same as getting healed.
Recovering from a cut in half the time, or completely regaining your arm after it was cut off because someone put a bandaid on it, while any other race would need a huge medical treatment to regain a limb in the same situation are two completely different things.

For Argonians it would seem more appropriate to have the Robust passive over any other class. And not even a normal Robust, but an upgraded version of Robust. Something like "For every 10% of HP you love you gain 5/10/15% more health regeneration"
Some might say that health regen isn't that useful, but that is easy to say if people don't bother working with it.

I do not get however why people always claim that argonians need stealth and sneak passives.
Only a select few Argonians (those born under the sign of the shadow) will be trained as assassins. Being an assassin and a Guerilla fighter are two completely different things.

I've posted that Argonians should get a Stealthy-like trait in the past because they have always had bonuses to Sneaking historically in the TES games and always had strong presence in the thieves guild. They are known for being excellent guerrilla fighters and scouts, on top of assassins and thieves. If it was me personally I'd give them a reduction in detection without the same crit bonuses that Khajiit and Bosmer get, to make them different but similar in that respect.

On the issue of Robust I agree entirely, as I've stated in this and other forum posts. It has always seemed odd to me that an Orc, Khajiit or Nord has superior Regeneration to an Argonian. Orcs and Nords did always have toughness oriented qualities but not massive health regeneration. I've never understood the Khajiit having Robust trait, except that perhaps they wanted Khajiit to be the 'tanky' race of the Dominion. I think they might have found a better way to handle that though. In my personal opinion Khajiit and Argonians have the least appropriate passives of any race in ESO.

P.S.: There is something woefully wrong with the Robust Trait to begin with. Robust is worthless if you are a vampire, and being vampire nullifies its effect and value, when in actuality I think it should help make up for vampirism. I think the way the mathematics works for Robust+Vampire is bad since you can look at things like Dunmer Fire Resistance or Breton Spell Resistance which clearly help make up for the fire weakness. I find the treatment of the math for these races to be haphazard in this area.

Selique · August 2015

I still feel that Argonians need a better set of passives. I haven't really supplied any thoughtful feedback in this thread, so I'll do that now.

I joke around and mention Shadowscale Passives, but someone mentioned Spell Thief, and I think that is a very fun idea.

I don't like that Argonians have a "Potion" passive. I feel like we Argonians shouldn't rely on potions with their 45 second cool down. I say get rid of that. Take the Alchemy passives for the potion boosts.

I LOVE the 50% Swim speed bonus. Lets keep that. I like the Max HP and Poison/Disease resists. Maybe give us a slight boost in Max HP/Poison/Disease numbers. I don't quite like "Quick to Mend". I'd rather see some magicka/Stealth replacements.

I would like to replace the resto staff increase with something else. Medium Armor would be nice (Damn you Khajiit!). Otherwise a magicka regen might be cool. Maybe work in that "Shadowscale,/Spell Thief" style and combine Magicka Regen with a stealth boost or something. In fact, Amphibious should give us the Stealth boost with the 50% Swim Speed.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2015

Lore aside, Argonians need a buff. They are not a competitive race for anything except a swimming contest.

Case in point: I have a buddy that has unlocked every achievement in game, with the exception of emperor and maybe a hard mode or two in trials. The one basic achievement that was completely out of reach was the one for killing Argonians in Cyrodiil. He actually ended up paying a guildie to create an Argonian in a different alliance so they could dual about 25 times. Why was this you ask? Look around, there arent any argonians in Cyrodiil (or on top of PvE leaderboards) because it is an inferior Race in this game! Now I am sure this was exaggerated slightly because he is an EP player, but you get the idea.

13igTyme · August 2015

Selique wrote: »

I still feel that Argonians need a better set of passives. I haven't really supplied any thoughtful feedback in this thread, so I'll do that now.

I joke around and mention Shadowscale Passives, but someone mentioned Spell Thief, and I think that is a very fun idea.

I don't like that Argonians have a "Potion" passive. I feel like we Argonians shouldn't rely on potions with their 45 second cool down. I say get rid of that. Take the Alchemy passives for the potion boosts.

I LOVE the 50% Swim speed bonus. Lets keep that. I like the Max HP and Poison/Disease resists. Maybe give us a slight boost in Max HP/Poison/Disease numbers. I don't quite like "Quick to Mend". I'd rather see some magicka/Stealth replacements.

I would like to replace the resto staff increase with something else. Medium Armor would be nice (Damn you Khajiit!). Otherwise a magicka regen might be cool. Maybe work in that "Shadowscale,/Spell Thief" style and combine Magicka Regen with a stealth boost or something. In fact, Amphibious should give us the Stealth boost with the 50% Swim Speed.

I completely agree. Argonians in lore have either been sneaky or mages. So it would be good to have a sneak race that doesn't boost stamina like bosmer and soon to be khajiit after the patch. No other race also boost health and magicka, they could be the first to do that as well.

xaraan · August 2015

The argonian passives are in a good place now IMO.

Junkogen · August 2015

xaraan wrote: »

The argonian passives are in a good place now IMO.

How so? The only passive in the game linked to a consumable and another providing marginal boosts to healing received. Why do you think those are good?

Fizzlewizzle · August 2015

Junkogen wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

The argonian passives are in a good place now IMO.

How so? The only passive in the game linked to a consumable and another providing marginal boosts to healing received. Why do you think those are good?

Probably someone who's happy with his own race and doesn't mind it if other classes are worse off.

13igTyme wrote: »

Selique wrote: »

I still feel that Argonians need a better set of passives. I haven't really supplied any thoughtful feedback in this thread, so I'll do that now.

I joke around and mention Shadowscale Passives, but someone mentioned Spell Thief, and I think that is a very fun idea.

I don't like that Argonians have a "Potion" passive. I feel like we Argonians shouldn't rely on potions with their 45 second cool down. I say get rid of that. Take the Alchemy passives for the potion boosts.

I LOVE the 50% Swim speed bonus. Lets keep that. I like the Max HP and Poison/Disease resists. Maybe give us a slight boost in Max HP/Poison/Disease numbers. I don't quite like "Quick to Mend". I'd rather see some magicka/Stealth replacements.

I would like to replace the resto staff increase with something else. Medium Armor would be nice (Damn you Khajiit!). Otherwise a magicka regen might be cool. Maybe work in that "Shadowscale,/Spell Thief" style and combine Magicka Regen with a stealth boost or something. In fact, Amphibious should give us the Stealth boost with the 50% Swim Speed.

I completely agree. Argonians in lore have either been sneaky or mages. So it would be good to have a sneak race that doesn't boost stamina like bosmer and soon to be khajiit after the patch. No other race also boost health and magicka, they could be the first to do that as well.

Would be a cool alternative. I'm curious what you have envisioned yourself, since i doubt you would write something like that without giving it a second thought.

Personal idea:
Restoration Expertise (as it is).
Amphibious:
- Increase swimming speed by 25/50/75% and decrease detection radius by 1/2/3 meters.
Argonian Resistance (maybe other name):
-Increase Potion resistance by X, Increase (in combat) Magicka regen by 3/6/9%.
Quick to Mend:
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9%
- Increase in combat Health regen by 10/20/30% below 90% max health, 20/40/60% below 60% max health and 30/60/90% below 30% max health.