Magicka Dragonknight - Inferno/Chains

Yonkit
Yonkit
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Right, straight to the point again, both of these abilities, suck. I suggest changing them and I already have a general idea on how to change them into something that's worth a slot on our bars.

Inferno - Wreathe yourself in flames dealing damage to all enemies around you, the longer they stand in the flames the more damage they take up to 200%. Base cost is 2.8k, lasts 30s, has radius of 8m, deals 360ish damage at base value. Scales up to 200% of this, so 720 at base value after a certain amount of time of someone standing in it, I'd say 4-5s is good, obviously spell damage and magicka will increase this damage. But by no means should it exceed the ability to do more than 2k dmg a second, then it just becomes too overpowered. Also make this ability grant Major Sorcery/Major Brutality, so DKs aren't stuck with using Entropy or Rally.

Conflagration - Enemies in the radius are snared by 30%, deals increased damage. (Around say, 500ish base value.)

Sea of Flames - Restore 25% of ability cost when enemy is killed inside the ability.

This goes back to basically what Inferno started as only overhauling it to be better, why did I choose to make it a cast ability and not a toggle? Because everyone hates toggles, plain and simple, the idea is also simple, DKs are a melee class, this makes it dangerous to stand next to one for too long a period of time, one morph helps you keep people closer so you don't have to keep expending resources to gap close to them, the other morph gives you more resource management which DKs currently need due to the removal of dynamic ult gen way back.

Now onto the topic of Chains... The signature "Get Over Here" ability, that sucks, this ability doesn't work half the time and the times it does work your enemy is granted free CC immunity, which is just blatantly stupid. I suggest to completely overhaul this ability, completely.

Fire Torrent - Encase yourself in flames and flash to your enemy, knocking them down and stunning them for 2s. Deals 2k fire damage at base value, same cost as chains. Same range as every other charge/teleport, 24m. (Think of it as bolt escape for Dks, but it's fire instead of lightning, and requires a target. It would fall under a teleport ability and and not a charge.)

Burning Clutch - Ability now ALWAYS brings the enemy to you, and disorients them. Same range as extended chains. 28m DOES NOT GIVE CC IMMUNITY UNLESS IT IS BROKEN. Because it's a disorient, now you wont be handing out free CC immunity to NPCs and players alike. (Can basically use the animation Valkyn Skoria does when he fossilizes people, but they're also dragged across the ground to you when it happens.

Flash Fire - (Don't really know what to make of this morph, the empower morph on chains was just stupid, maybe a longer stun, or applies a high damage DoT to the target, maybe give Dks a 10m fire version of bolt escape so they have mobility without going vampire, of course if this was the change then you'd need to throw on the bolt escape nerf as well and it's kind of stupid, but I'm sleepy so someone else can come up with a 2nd morph of this.)

So this gives Dks their much needed gap closer for PvP, as well as not ruining the ability for Pvers, and the actual PULL morph of this ability no longer hands out free CC immunity like candy, hopefully this will give people and ZoS some ideas on how to change Inferno/Chains for the better, cause as it stands both abilities are garbage on Live and PTS, Inferno was much more fun when it was a toggle, I hated toggles, but i actually used it because it looked cool, did decent damage, and had utility, currently inferno is just a trash toggle ability that no one will use because Magelight gives the same buff and 5% more magicka or the ability to reveal stealthed and reduce damage taken from stealthed players which is by far better than both of the crappy morphs of Inferno.


Quick Edit: The change to Inferno would make it like Lava, the longer YOU stand in it the more damage YOU take, not the longer it's active the more damage it does, it's entirely based on how long you yourself stand in it.






Edited by Yonkit on August 17, 2015 4:46AM
Has an Alter Ego in the form of a very large quadrupedal black & white Bear.
  • Armitas
    Armitas
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    Yonkit wrote: »
    Fire Torrent - Encase yourself in flames and flash to your enemy, knocking them down and stunning them for 2s. Deals 2k fire damage at base value, same cost as chains. Same range as every other charge/teleport, 24m. (Think of it as bolt escape for Dks, but it's fire instead of lightning, and requires a target. It would fall under a teleport ability and and not a charge.)

    Burning Clutch - Ability now ALWAYS brings the enemy to you, and disorients them. Same range as extended chains. 28m DOES NOT GIVE CC IMMUNITY UNLESS IT IS BROKEN. Because it's a disorient, now you wont be handing out free CC immunity to NPCs and players alike. (Can basically use the animation Valkyn Skoria does when he fossilizes people, but they're also dragged across the ground to you when it happens

    This replacement of fiery grip would be amazing. Unbelievably awesome!! Unfortunately because it came from a player it can never happen...as MMO tradition goes.

    I like the inferno idea as ash cloud is entirely useless in pvp right now, we need something that follows with us instead of high cost skills that are evacuated as soon as they are cast.

    I'd still like to get reimbursed for the huge 20% dodge loss we took on the last update. Maybe give it to volatile armor at 10%, or make it return a % of damage instead of flat damage.
    Edited by Armitas on August 17, 2015 7:46PM
    Retired.
    Nord mDK
  • OGLezard
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    Armitas wrote: »
    Yonkit wrote: »
    Fire Torrent - Encase yourself in flames and flash to your enemy, knocking them down and stunning them for 2s. Deals 2k fire damage at base value, same cost as chains. Same range as every other charge/teleport, 24m. (Think of it as bolt escape for Dks, but it's fire instead of lightning, and requires a target. It would fall under a teleport ability and and not a charge.)

    Burning Clutch - Ability now ALWAYS brings the enemy to you, and disorients them. Same range as extended chains. 28m DOES NOT GIVE CC IMMUNITY UNLESS IT IS BROKEN. Because it's a disorient, now you wont be handing out free CC immunity to NPCs and players alike. (Can basically use the animation Valkyn Skoria does when he fossilizes people, but they're also dragged across the ground to you when it happens

    This would be amazing. Unbelievably awesome!! Unfortunately because it came from a player it can never happen.

    I like the inferno idea as ash cloud is entirely useless in pvp right now, we need something that follows with us instead of high cost skills that are evacuated as soon as they are cast.

    welcome to Liquid lightning and wall of elements. Two completely useless skills in pvp as the damage is so freaking laughable and even if you stand in it it is not a threat. All you have to do is side step either or dodge roll either and boom no more threat if a threat even existed
  • Teiji
    Teiji
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    Yonkit wrote: »
    Right, straight to the point again, both of these abilities, suck. I suggest changing them and I already have a general idea on how to change them into something that's worth a slot on our bars.

    Inferno - Wreathe yourself in flames dealing damage to all enemies around you, the longer they stand in the flames the more damage they take up to 200%. Base cost is 2.8k, lasts 30s, has radius of 8m, deals 360ish damage at base value. Scales up to 200% of this, so 720 at base value after a certain amount of time of someone standing in it, I'd say 4-5s is good, obviously spell damage and magicka will increase this damage. But by no means should it exceed the ability to do more than 2k dmg a second, then it just becomes too overpowered. Also make this ability grant Major Sorcery/Major Brutality, so DKs aren't stuck with using Entropy or Rally.

    Conflagration - Enemies in the radius are snared by 30%, deals increased damage. (Around say, 500ish base value.)

    Sea of Flames - Restore 25% of ability cost when enemy is killed inside the ability.

    A dot which isn't completely negated by damage shields!? Oh man, this would be great! I personally think DK would be okay with dots simply being able to apply to damage shields, I always thought gameplay was about resource utilising, but damage shields granting damage-over-time immunity?

    So many odd design-choices which lead to classes being nerfed instead of individual abilities and complete damage immunity on some abilities being tweaked, it's odd.

    Your post is awesome. With something like this and dots being able to always do damage over time, I think DK would actually be more like a Dragonknight.
    "Serving Boethiah is Freedom, embracing heroism is Liberty, existing solely for noxiphilic sanguivoria is truth." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

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  • Ishammael
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    Yonky, you bring tears to my eyes with your DK posts! Agreed, basically 100%, with you suggestions.
  • Yonkit
    Yonkit
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    Ishammael wrote: »
    Yonky, you bring tears to my eyes with your DK posts! Agreed, basically 100%, with you suggestions.

    I think I'm basically becoming the resident expert on all things DK. ALL SHALL BOW BEFORE MY DK SUGGESTIONS.
    Has an Alter Ego in the form of a very large quadrupedal black & white Bear.
  • Ishammael
    Ishammael
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    Yonkit wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Yonky, you bring tears to my eyes with your DK posts! Agreed, basically 100%, with you suggestions.

    I think I'm basically becoming the resident expert on all things DK. ALL SHALL BOW BEFORE MY DK SUGGESTIONS.

    You understand my pain, my tears, my sweat! I will read the Lusty Argonian Maid to you at our next meeting.
  • Armitas
    Armitas
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    Mr Wrobel, Lurk here please. Specially on fire torrent, that just needs to happen. It's also likely much easier than getting chains to work.
    Edited by Armitas on August 17, 2015 7:47PM
    Retired.
    Nord mDK
  • Teiji
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    Armitas wrote: »
    Mr Wrobel, Lurk here please. Specially on fire torrent, that just needs to happen. It's also likely much easier than getting chains to work.

    Is Fire Torrent in-game yet? Is something similar already being developed by the developers?

    You should throw this on GD Yonkit, it may get more traffic, no?
    Edited by Teiji on August 24, 2015 3:02PM
    "Serving Boethiah is Freedom, embracing heroism is Liberty, existing solely for noxiphilic sanguivoria is truth." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

    European megaserver Fallout 4

    Loyalist of Boethiah, heroism enthusiast, exposer of secrets, bless'ed of noxiphilic sanguivoria.

    Nerf one grind, two more take its place; hail Gryndra!


    I am a dank memer and satire enthusiast
  • Yonkit
    Yonkit
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    Teiji wrote: »
    Armitas wrote: »
    Mr Wrobel, Lurk here please. Specially on fire torrent, that just needs to happen. It's also likely much easier than getting chains to work.

    Is Fire Torrent in-game yet? Is something similar already being developed by the developers?

    You should throw this on GD Yonkit, it may get more traffic, no?

    Fire Torrent is the name of the ranged flame ball the NPC Honor Guards use in Cyrodiil, I didn't know what to name it so I just stole the name from an ability already in game, /shrug.
    Has an Alter Ego in the form of a very large quadrupedal black & white Bear.
  • BuggeX
    BuggeX
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    You Sir, you derserve a awesome for this.
    100% Support from me.
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  • Yonkit
    Yonkit
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    BuggeX wrote: »
    You Sir, you derserve a awesome for this.
    100% Support from me.

    I try.
    Has an Alter Ego in the form of a very large quadrupedal black & white Bear.
  • Ishammael
    Ishammael
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    Yonkit wrote: »
    Inferno - Wreathe yourself in flames dealing damage to all enemies around you, the longer they stand in the flames the more damage they take up to 200%. Base cost is 2.8k, lasts 30s, has radius of 8m, deals 360ish damage at base value. Scales up to 200% of this, so 720 at base value after a certain amount of time of someone standing in it, I'd say 4-5s is good, obviously spell damage and magicka will increase this damage. But by no means should it exceed the ability to do more than 2k dmg a second, then it just becomes too overpowered. Also make this ability grant Major Sorcery/Major Brutality, so DKs aren't stuck with using Entropy or Rally.

    Conflagration - Enemies in the radius are snared by 30%, deals increased damage. (Around say, 500ish base value.)

    Sea of Flames - Restore 25% of ability cost when enemy is killed inside the ability.

    Yes, please.
    Yonkit wrote: »
    Now onto the topic of Chains... The signature "Get Over Here" ability, that sucks, this ability doesn't work half the time and the times it does work your enemy is granted free CC immunity, which is just blatantly stupid. I suggest to completely overhaul this ability, completely.
    The cc immunity is what kills the ability, agreed.
    Yonkit wrote: »
    Fire Torrent - Encase yourself in flames and flash to your enemy, knocking them down and stunning them for 2s. Deals 2k fire damage at base value, same cost as chains. Same range as every other charge/teleport, 24m. (Think of it as bolt escape for Dks, but it's fire instead of lightning, and requires a target. It would fall under a teleport ability and and not a charge.)

    Yes, please.
    Yonkit wrote: »
    Burning Clutch - Ability now ALWAYS brings the enemy to you, and disorients them. Same range as extended chains. 28m DOES NOT GIVE CC IMMUNITY UNLESS IT IS BROKEN. Because it's a disorient, now you wont be handing out free CC immunity to NPCs and players alike. (Can basically use the animation Valkyn Skoria does when he fossilizes people, but they're also dragged across the ground to you when it happens.

    Perfect -- good for both pve and pvp.
    Yonkit wrote: »
    Flash Fire - (Don't really know what to make of this morph, the empower morph on chains was just stupid, maybe a longer stun, or applies a high damage DoT to the target, maybe give Dks a 10m fire version of bolt escape so they have mobility without going vampire, of course if this was the change then you'd need to throw on the bolt escape nerf as well and it's kind of stupid, but I'm sleepy so someone else can come up with a 2nd morph of this.)

    This morph should remain a teleport gap closer and grant empower.
  • Master_Kas
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    I love that idea of chains. Would be really awsome & I would use this on my DK. :disappointed:

    Inferno I never bothered with, so that skill really needs a improvment.

    Hope ZOS reads this thread :)
    Edited by Master_Kas on August 24, 2015 4:45PM
    EU | PC
  • OhItsReckt
    OhItsReckt
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    These are BOTH amazing ideas and I would LOVE to see them implemented into the game. I got excited just reading the OP. I thought about how to actually use these abilities in a build, then got sadden at the fact that they weren't in the game.
  • MaxwellC
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    I agree 100% these abilities sound amazing but I'd like the Inferno morph (Flames of oblivion) to be just like it was post patch. It was a 360 damage dealer AoE and it drained magicka at a consistent rate.

    It would be amazing to have these abilities since DKs need some DPS abilities mainly because all of them have been nerf'd (at-least the good ones).
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  • Draxys
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    I've suggested a gap closer morph and a pull morph for chains before. Let's hope they listen.
    2013

    rip decibel
  • yodased
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    chains don't work because people abused the absolute hell out of them to steal scrolls unchallenged.

    No matter what "fix" you put behind them, they aren't going to work the way you want because of the z-axis not being really used in the game's logic too much.

    Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.
  • danno8
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    Awesome! Now do Templar!

    On topic, I think your Inferno suggestion is too strong though. On paper it looks identical to Nova, but lasts 30 seconds and gives 20% weap/sp damage, and snares? I can't see any DK not running this, probably on both bars, lol.

    For your Chains idea, I would say the basic pull is good, one morph could be pulls enemy to you instead (and I am sorry, this HAS to give immunity since having your position changed is just as bad if not worse than being stunned), and the other one can still teleport you to your enemy but deals AoE fire burst instead of single target.
  • themdogesbite
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    You can pull people from their spawns in IC with the chains now so i assume it works similarly on keep walls again, which is good. What isnt is that its still very buggy.

    Overall suggestions in the OP are great and much needed buffs to two close to useless skills.
    Edited by themdogesbite on August 24, 2015 6:52PM
    :]
  • danno8
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    You can pull people from their spawns in IC with the chains now so i assume it works similarly on keep walls again, which is good. What isnt is that its still very buggy.

    Overall suggestions in the OP are great and much needed buffs to 2 close to useless skills.

    Chains is like the sister skill to Templar Eclipse. Both work strangely when your enemy has immunity and are essentially useless in these cases.

    Funny enough Templars are about to have Eclipse nerfed to death come 1.7. A skill that so few already used will now be used by no one at all.
  • omfgitsbatman
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    The reason chains gives cc immunity:
    2 dk's grouped together stand roughly 15 meters apart in stealth.
    someone rides past on their horse.
    Dk1 chains victim and applies a DoT
    Dk2 chains victim and applies a DoT
    Dk1 chains victim and applies a DoT
    ... I think you see where this is going.
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  • Yonkit
    Yonkit
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    danno8 wrote: »
    Awesome! Now do Templar!

    On topic, I think your Inferno suggestion is too strong though. On paper it looks identical to Nova, but lasts 30 seconds and gives 20% weap/sp damage, and snares? I can't see any DK not running this, probably on both bars, lol.

    For your Chains idea, I would say the basic pull is good, one morph could be pulls enemy to you instead (and I am sorry, this HAS to give immunity since having your position changed is just as bad if not worse than being stunned), and the other one can still teleport you to your enemy but deals AoE fire burst instead of single target.

    I don't play a Templar enough to really know where to start with them, sorry :confounded:

    And yea, just general suggestions to change the skills to be useful, what I say doesn't need to actually be identical to how they change it, they just need to change it, whether it be like I suggested, or something else that actually works, Inferno and Chains are both trash skills and need to be looked at, same could be said for Eclipse, Dark Flare, and Javelin for Templars, (I mean aside from Stamplars, does anyone actually use Javelin lol?)
    Has an Alter Ego in the form of a very large quadrupedal black & white Bear.
  • Domander
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    I want chains to have it's own immunity, seperate from normal CC immunity.
  • trimsic_ESO
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    Your proposition for inferno is overpowered. The impact on melee classes would be too important ;)

    Maybe, there is something to test around the concept of vampiric spells for the DK, both in magicka and stamina builds. The DKs would hit their enemies, dealing damage and healing themselves. The same concept as for Inhale, but in a more generalized and more effective form. That would be the core mechanism by which DKs would be able to tank.
    Edited by trimsic_ESO on August 24, 2015 10:15PM
  • xylena
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    please give dks something with brutality/sorcery - either inferno or molten weps are ideal candidates

    need more options than just entropy and/or chugging pots
    PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP
  • Ishammael
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    xylena wrote: »
    please give dks something with brutality/sorcery - either inferno or molten weps are ideal candidates

    need more options than just entropy and/or chugging pots

    The inferno skill should basically be impulse. Or what yonk suggested here. Perhaps like solar barrage with a self empower? Dunno. Anything other than what it is currently.
  • Kilandros
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    Really great suggestions. Turning Chains into a more traditional gap closer would be AMAZING. And I agree that Inferno is garbage in its current form--I really like your idea of an AoE DPS or even a way of obtaining Majory Sorc/Brutality.

    I also think Molten Weapons needs to be looked at.

    But the Devs have demonstrated that they don't care about where the DK is right now. The last several class-balance patches have basically ignored if not nerfed further the class.
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    Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

    DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT
  • Yonkit
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    Kilandros wrote: »
    Really great suggestions. Turning Chains into a more traditional gap closer would be AMAZING. And I agree that Inferno is garbage in its current form--I really like your idea of an AoE DPS or even a way of obtaining Majory Sorc/Brutality.

    I also think Molten Weapons needs to be looked at.

    But the Devs have demonstrated that they don't care about where the DK is right now. The last several class-balance patches have basically ignored if not nerfed further the class.

    Molten Weapons isn't... Bad... But yea, it's not good either.

    As far as being able to get Major Sorc/Brutality I think every class, needs access to this, Templars, NBs, and Dks, Sorcs have Surge so they're good, but having to crutch on weapon abilities or Entropy is just silly, I should be able to do it with a class ability, no?
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  • BuggeX
    BuggeX
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    Yonkit wrote: »
    Kilandros wrote: »
    Really great suggestions. Turning Chains into a more traditional gap closer would be AMAZING. And I agree that Inferno is garbage in its current form--I really like your idea of an AoE DPS or even a way of obtaining Majory Sorc/Brutality.

    I also think Molten Weapons needs to be looked at.

    But the Devs have demonstrated that they don't care about where the DK is right now. The last several class-balance patches have basically ignored if not nerfed further the class.

    Molten Weapons isn't... Bad... But yea, it's not good either.

    As far as being able to get Major Sorc/Brutality I think every class, needs access to this, Templars, NBs, and Dks, Sorcs have Surge so they're good, but having to crutch on weapon abilities or Entropy is just silly, I should be able to do it with a class ability, no?

    well Surge is the best Buff ingame, it gives you 20% Spell and Weapond Dmg, together with the new molag Kenia set.
    I wounder wy no Sorc is playing as Hybrid now..... 1k Spell and Weap dmg just through 2 items and 1 Spell
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  • Yonkit
    Yonkit
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    BuggeX wrote: »
    Yonkit wrote: »
    Kilandros wrote: »
    Really great suggestions. Turning Chains into a more traditional gap closer would be AMAZING. And I agree that Inferno is garbage in its current form--I really like your idea of an AoE DPS or even a way of obtaining Majory Sorc/Brutality.

    I also think Molten Weapons needs to be looked at.

    But the Devs have demonstrated that they don't care about where the DK is right now. The last several class-balance patches have basically ignored if not nerfed further the class.

    Molten Weapons isn't... Bad... But yea, it's not good either.

    As far as being able to get Major Sorc/Brutality I think every class, needs access to this, Templars, NBs, and Dks, Sorcs have Surge so they're good, but having to crutch on weapon abilities or Entropy is just silly, I should be able to do it with a class ability, no?

    well Surge is the best Buff ingame, it gives you 20% Spell and Weapond Dmg, together with the new molag Kenia set.
    I wounder wy no Sorc is playing as Hybrid now..... 1k Spell and Weap dmg just through 2 items and 1 Spell

    Hybrids generally just don't work... Sure you can do it, but someone who's hard spec'd into spell or weapon will most likely tear you apart, as a Hybrid you do less damage overall, less healing overall, the only thing you have going for you is more sustain, if built correctly, and sustain only gets you so far.

    Hybrid tanks however, work great.
    Has an Alter Ego in the form of a very large quadrupedal black & white Bear.
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