The Horror of Trading Guilds

ColoursYouHave · August 2015

Tandor wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

I have no desire to join a guild, for any reason. The fact that I HAVE to join one just to sell a couple items should be a HUGE red flag to anyone.

That is such a silly argument. It is so easy to be part of a trading guild. I am a member of 5 and have never once communicated with a single member of any of these guilds (with the exception of several 100% optional raffles, and requesting price checks on a couple items). I just don't understand your opposition to do something which is so incredibly easy and has absolutely no negative impacts. It's like holding up a glass of water, complaining that your arm is sore, yet being adamant that you refuse to place down the glass of water, and think it is ridiculous that you are required to place down the glass to relieve the soreness in your arm.

And yes, being a member of a trading guild is about as easy as setting down a glass of water...

I don't think you even really understand what a trading guild is. You seem to think it is a group of people who are constantly communicating with each other trying to buy and sell items, when in reality a vast majority of the members join the guild, then use the guild trader, and that is the extent of their interaction with the guild.

All of which amply demonstrates why it's such a defective system.

I could at least understand the point of a system in which you could join a single guild for optimum community involvement, with that guild being the focal point for trading. But to have to join 5 guilds in order to broaden the chances of your being able to sell items through a weekly bidding process, with no guarantee that your guilds will win their bids, and with no interaction with the other members of the guilds? I just don't see the benefit of such a system.

It's akin to having an auction house in which you can only sign up with certain of the auctioneers, who will take your sale items but not necessarily offer them for sale, and who will let you know if they do sell them successfully although they won't tell you which of the items they sold or where they sold them. Meanwhile it's no good interacting with those auctioneers if you also want to buy something, instead you have to run around the world to a whole mass of remote auctioneers who may or may not have the item you want until you find the item you're after at which point you might want to keep looking anyway in case there's another one somewhere else at a better price.

It's a broken system to all but those who are making a lot of money out of it. That's primarily a few dominant trading guilds with mostly high level players.

To be effective, a trading system should be open to all, irrespective of level, alliance and other artificial barriers such as guild membership.

They only point I made that could even remotely suggest that it is a broken system is the fact that I am part of five trading guilds who I seldom interact with outside of the market. But you don't by any means need to be part of five. I really only use two of those five guilds, with the others being there simply because I had three open guild slots. I mentioned that I was a member of five just to demonstrate how easy it is, not to suggest that you need five trading guilds to have success. And just because I do not interact socially with those guilds does not mean there is no social aspect. All of the guilds regularly have people chatting in guild chat, and a couple of them even do dungeon runs regularly. I said that I don't really interact with the guilds to demonstrate that being social is in no way required in these guilds, like the poster I was responding to seemed to suggest, but that doesn't mean that there is no social aspects to the guilds either.

Beyond that, you claim that my post demonstrates how it is a broken system, but then proceed to discus things completely irrelevant to what I had said as an explanation for why this is a broken system...

Tandor · August 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

.../...
To be effective, a trading system should be open to all, irrespective of level, alliance and other artificial barriers such as guild membership.

That's because you're not interested in the "trading game" and have not experienced it at all in ESO.

What you say is quite similar to saying :

"The most effective way to achieve a quest is to run from quest giver to objective to complete it. Putting mobs and riddles in the way is an artificial barrier and mostly an annoyance, please remove it".

Trading in ESO is a GAME. A global AH would be sooo boring.

I haven't argued for a global auction house. I'm suggesting that what we have at the moment is akin to an utterly discombobulated auction house system. I'd settle for any kind of trading system that met the minimum requirements I set out - open to all, irrespective of level, alliance and other artificial barriers such as guild membership. Your questing analogy is completely nonsensical. However, it doesn't surprise me that you couldn't come up with a better defence of the existing system!

Tandor · August 2015

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

I have no desire to join a guild, for any reason. The fact that I HAVE to join one just to sell a couple items should be a HUGE red flag to anyone.

That is such a silly argument. It is so easy to be part of a trading guild. I am a member of 5 and have never once communicated with a single member of any of these guilds (with the exception of several 100% optional raffles, and requesting price checks on a couple items). I just don't understand your opposition to do something which is so incredibly easy and has absolutely no negative impacts. It's like holding up a glass of water, complaining that your arm is sore, yet being adamant that you refuse to place down the glass of water, and think it is ridiculous that you are required to place down the glass to relieve the soreness in your arm.

And yes, being a member of a trading guild is about as easy as setting down a glass of water...

I don't think you even really understand what a trading guild is. You seem to think it is a group of people who are constantly communicating with each other trying to buy and sell items, when in reality a vast majority of the members join the guild, then use the guild trader, and that is the extent of their interaction with the guild.

All of which amply demonstrates why it's such a defective system.

I could at least understand the point of a system in which you could join a single guild for optimum community involvement, with that guild being the focal point for trading. But to have to join 5 guilds in order to broaden the chances of your being able to sell items through a weekly bidding process, with no guarantee that your guilds will win their bids, and with no interaction with the other members of the guilds? I just don't see the benefit of such a system.

It's akin to having an auction house in which you can only sign up with certain of the auctioneers, who will take your sale items but not necessarily offer them for sale, and who will let you know if they do sell them successfully although they won't tell you which of the items they sold or where they sold them. Meanwhile it's no good interacting with those auctioneers if you also want to buy something, instead you have to run around the world to a whole mass of remote auctioneers who may or may not have the item you want until you find the item you're after at which point you might want to keep looking anyway in case there's another one somewhere else at a better price.

It's a broken system to all but those who are making a lot of money out of it. That's primarily a few dominant trading guilds with mostly high level players.

To be effective, a trading system should be open to all, irrespective of level, alliance and other artificial barriers such as guild membership.

They only point I made that could even remotely suggest that it is a broken system is the fact that I am part of five trading guilds who I seldom interact with outside of the market. But you don't by any means need to be part of five. I really only use two of those five guilds, with the others being there simply because I had three open guild slots. I mentioned that I was a member of five just to demonstrate how easy it is, not to suggest that you need five trading guilds to have success. And just because I do not interact socially with those guilds does not mean there is no social aspect. All of the guilds regularly have people chatting in guild chat, and a couple of them even do dungeon runs regularly. I said that I don't really interact with the guilds to demonstrate that being social is in no way required in these guilds, like the poster I was responding to seemed to suggest, but that doesn't mean that there is no social aspects to the guilds either.

Beyond that, you claim that my post demonstrates how it is a broken system, but then proceed to discus things completely irrelevant to what I had said as an explanation for why this is a broken system...

My fault for not making the relevance of your comments to that conclusion clearer. ZOS designed the trading system with the aim of using it to encourage a more social community. You said "I am a member of 5 and have never once communicated with a single member of any of these guilds (with the exception of several 100% optional raffles, and requesting price checks on a couple items)". Your experience isn't unique in that respect, it comes up all the time that people don't have much interaction in their guilds, and how can they when they belong to 5 of them? I never understood how allowing multiple guild memberships and guilds intended solely for trading would result in a more social community, and it hasn't. The trading system hasn't met the objectives it was designed around, and that is one aspect of its dysfunction.

Callous2208 · August 2015

A few things bug me when reading these posts, which pop up every single day.

1.Players declaring the system is broken, although they've never tried it, and outright state that they never will.

2.Players claiming the auction house system is a better system for all, because the little man can sell his wares and profit too. In every single mmo with an auction house, a group of bots and hardcore high end gear grinders profit. The little man gets very little vending his common trash with 100,000 of the same listings that every other little man is also vending.

3.Players claiming joining one of these guilds is what is holding them back because, "I play mmo's single player and refuse to socialize whatsoever." That's great, totally your choice. But know that you may miss out on a few aspects of an MMO, playing solo. That may be a harsh realization to some, but it's not a reason to lash out. Hey on the brightside, large trade guild recruit daily to keep that max membership up and get a trader. Join one and I bet they won't even care if you don't talk to them...just sell stuff.

4.Players claiming they can never find what they need at the kiosks and have to travel around the world to get a melon or whatever else. Not an issue on pc, perhaps it is on console. I'd say give it a few months and the spread of items throughout all the kiosks should stabilize. I will concede the AH system is easier for finding large quantities of specific items quickly. Although at this time, your at the mercy of Joe Melon farmer who realized there weren't any listed yet...so melons are rare, give me a cool mil per piece!

Some personal info to conclude although I'm sure no one will care. Out of the 1000 mmo's I've played, this Guild trader system has made me more money than any AH system ever could. I talk to people in my RP guild, my trade guilds are for selling items and perhaps getting a quick pug going or help with crafting. AH's are in just about every single mmo that is released, especially the generic f2p's. Let that sink in...they are easily exploitable and for the common player, a trash item dump/storage. This system works, if you try it.

GuyNamedSean · August 2015

Console players, I think we should be willing to concede right now. The PC bros are assuring us that the issues with the Trader system are largely due to supply not catching up to demand as the game is still new for us and a handful of fat cats moving their wealth over from PC. I'm willing to give this time. They are right, there's no real need to have a trader. It's difficult to hock your wares without one, but with some legwork it can still be done. And if you're unsure where to farm things yourself, most of the time simply asking will get you the answers you need. At the end of the day, I still have my guild to run and if I'm broke while doing it, whatever. I still have my guys.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2015

Tandor wrote: »

Your questing analogy is completely nonsensical. However, it doesn't surprise me that you couldn't come up with a better defence of the existing system!

As long as you don't explain why it is nonsensical in your opinion, your sentence don't mean much. And there's no point in being rude either.

The current trade system is open to all (since everyone can join a trading guild), regardless of level and faction (since guilds can be cross-faction). I would understand your point IF big trading guilds were closed, selective and hard-to-find groups but they're not, they recruit freely, openly and daily. So there's no hurdle at all.

ADarklore · August 2015

Here is my idea, instead of Guilds PAYING for a spot, the bidding system should be based on amount of items SOLD. I'm SO tired of Guild Traders getting my favorite vendor locations only to never have them have ANYTHING I need. Yet, other Guild Traders, who previously held that spot(s) always had things I needed. It seems outrageous to me that Guild Traders ask for 'donations' from their members so they can bid/buy a prime location only to not have any of their members have anything decent to sell. Seems to me the best GT's are those who actually have things to SELL, and not just the ability to generate enough gold from their members to bid/buy a prime location.

starkerealm · August 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

Here is my idea, instead of Guilds PAYING for a spot, the bidding system should be based on amount of items SOLD.

Then you'd actually have a system no one could break into. While I'll don't believe the guilds are unhealthy for the in game economy (I've explained that elsewhere), they do pull in far more transactions than trading guilds that lack kiosks. Simply because, if you have a kiosk, then you're going to be selling to players outside of your guild. While a guild without a kiosk has a maximum possible customer base of 499.

Right now, it is possible for guilds to earn enough gold through trades to get kiosks out in the wild, and gradually climb through the ranks. Under a system where volume of trades governs who gets a store, that would be impossible.

Tre_775 · August 2015

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

The fact that I HAVE to join one just to sell a couple items should be a HUGE red flag to anyone.

Why ? (I mean, such emphasis ... "HUGE RED FLAG".... and no argument at all...)

That would be pretty obvious if you got out of your tunnel vision and looked at the bigger picture. I don't want to be in a guild. I don't want people constantly bugging me for stuff, whether it's items or money or my time. I can't sell items to other players, which is a rudimentary part of the game, without having to do things that I don't want to be a part of. If I don't want to do PvP, I don't have to. I can easily avoid PvP without it inhibiting the rest of the game. Why is trading different? It's stupid.

It really sounds like you'd prefer a single player game.

Tandor · August 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Your questing analogy is completely nonsensical. However, it doesn't surprise me that you couldn't come up with a better defence of the existing system!

As long as you don't explain why it is nonsensical in your opinion, your sentence don't mean much. And there's no point in being rude either.

The current trade system is open to all (since everyone can join a trading guild), regardless of level and faction (since guilds can be cross-faction). I would understand your point IF big trading guilds were closed, selective and hard-to-find groups but they're not, they recruit freely, openly and daily. So there's no hurdle at all.

It was nonsensical because as an analogy it made no sense. That is what "nonsensical" means. It wasn't even remotely similar to what I was talking about at all. There was nothing rude about my comment, I was simply pointing out that I wasn't surprised that you didn't have a stronger defence of the present system than an irrelevant analogy because the system's pretty indefensible. Most of those who take a full part in it want it changed in one way or another. Incidentally, you shouldn't make assumptions as to who has and who has not taken part in what you call the trading game.

The trading system is not open to all. You can't sell an item if you don't join a guild, and even if you do join a guild you still can't sell an item if your guild hasn't won a trader that week. A lot of guilds are closed because they're full. Meanwhile if you want to buy stuff most of the traders will be inaccessible to you due to your level and/or alliance - other, of course, than high level players who are the only ones able to participate more fully in the system. Even the traders in low level zones are stocked mainly with high level items because of Cadwells.

Tandor · August 2015

Callous2208 wrote: »

A few things bug me when reading these posts, which pop up every single day.

1.Players declaring the system is broken, although they've never tried it, and outright state that they never will.

2.Players claiming the auction house system is a better system for all, because the little man can sell his wares and profit too. In every single mmo with an auction house, a group of bots and hardcore high end gear grinders profit. The little man gets very little vending his common trash with 100,000 of the same listings that every other little man is also vending.

3.Players claiming joining one of these guilds is what is holding them back because, "I play mmo's single player and refuse to socialize whatsoever." That's great, totally your choice. But know that you may miss out on a few aspects of an MMO, playing solo. That may be a harsh realization to some, but it's not a reason to lash out. Hey on the brightside, large trade guild recruit daily to keep that max membership up and get a trader. Join one and I bet they won't even care if you don't talk to them...just sell stuff.

4.Players claiming they can never find what they need at the kiosks and have to travel around the world to get a melon or whatever else. Not an issue on pc, perhaps it is on console. I'd say give it a few months and the spread of items throughout all the kiosks should stabilize. I will concede the AH system is easier for finding large quantities of specific items quickly. Although at this time, your at the mercy of Joe Melon farmer who realized there weren't any listed yet...so melons are rare, give me a cool mil per piece!

Some personal info to conclude although I'm sure no one will care. Out of the 1000 mmo's I've played, this Guild trader system has made me more money than any AH system ever could. I talk to people in my RP guild, my trade guilds are for selling items and perhaps getting a quick pug going or help with crafting. AH's are in just about every single mmo that is released, especially the generic f2p's. Let that sink in...they are easily exploitable and for the common player, a trash item dump/storage. This system works, if you try it.

Don't worry, people already understand that most of the defence of the present system comes from those who are making the most money from it

! However, not everyone who wants it changed is looking for an auction house. I'd be happy with the present system being retained but in a way that opened it up to more players at all levels of the game, for example by each city having a trader that was open to non-guild members but with a higher rate of commission that would be shared among the guilds trading in that location. I'd also like a decent search function for buyers, preferably with a paid-for delivery service that would allow buyers to access items being sold in areas they cannot reach due to level or alliance etc.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2015

Tandor wrote: »

It was nonsensical because as an analogy it made no sense. That is what "nonsensical" means. It wasn't even remotely similar to what I was talking about at all. There was nothing rude about my comment, I was simply pointing out that I wasn't surprised that you didn't have a stronger defence of the present system than an irrelevant analogy because the system's pretty indefensible.

- It's nonsensical because it makes no sense (no further explanation as to WHY it makes no sense) ;
- Its impossible to defend the system because it is indefensible...(tautological loop)

Okay... okay... I won't comment further

Tandor wrote: »

Don't worry, people already understand that most of the defence of the present system comes from those who are making the most money from it ! However, not everyone who wants it changed is looking for an auction house. I'd be happy with the present system being retained but in a way that opened it up to more players at all levels of the game, for example by each city having a trader that was open to non-guild members but with a higher rate of commission that would be shared among the guilds trading in that location.

1/ Which proves that it is working : most people who play "the trading game" enjoy it and benefit from it. The whiners are the ones that don't want to play it, but hey, no play no reward, makes sense. If I don't PvP I don't get AP. If you don't play the trading game you don't sell/buy/make gold. That's it. Even then, that's no hurdle : having no AP doesn't prevent me from playing all the PvE I want, and having no gold doesn't prevent you from farming what you need yourself and craft decent gear.

2/ All capital cities are major trading hubs with big guilds that sell everything including lower-level stuff, so everything is accessible at all levels.

3/ Lower levels don't need that much stuff anyway, they loot/farm enough along the quests, or they can have stuff crafted by guildies or themselves. Rarer stuff is required only by min/maxers at endgame.

4/ Everybody can make good, very good money by selling alchemy ingredients at ANY LEVEL, since they're available everywhere.

5/ Even if it were less fair, it makes sense to me that players who are not that advanced in the game have access to less things. Effort/Advancement/Reward.

willymchilybily · August 2015

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Blame the sheep who join those types of guilds!

yes but i can go to the bank and look at what the guilds im in have all in one location. I can search 5 different big name trading guilds with multiple members. and if they dont have it. i figure no one does.

also not the sheep the pc transfer to PS4/xbox keeping all the gold they have from Pc etc.

Krayor · August 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

.../...
To be effective, a trading system should be open to all, irrespective of level, alliance and other artificial barriers such as guild membership.

That's because you're not interested in the "trading game" and have not experienced it at all in ESO.

I guess you'd be shocked to find out how few people are interested in that then. And I'm certain Tandor has used this system quite extensively since he has been discussing it since before PC release. Your assumptions are unbecoming (as well as your reading comprehension skills).

Trading in ESO is a GAME

No, it's a feature. If you want to make a game out of it, knock your socks off (or better yet, try a real finance game like Capitalization 2). Don't try to force everyone else, who isn't interested, in playing that game, though. And yes, people who want to viably buy and sell have to use this inefficient system.

On the other hand, the solution isn't simply to add an AH, since the economy is way too dependent on guild traders at the moment. The whole economy would have to be revamped with other major money sinks, or how money enters the game would need to be nerfed pretty hard. Otherwise gold will have even less value and the economy would become borked worse than it is. While this system is in desperate need of revamping, it's not as easy as simply including an AH.

That said, AH is a better system than the current one.

I don't like being forced to join multiple trading guilds in order to reliably sell items.
I don't like to be forced to log into the game in order to keep my spot in trading guilds during times I'd like time off from the game (this creates burnout).
I don't like being forced to find new trading guilds when the ones I have been in fall apart due to burnout.
I don't like being forced to give large sums of money in order to just sell items on a guild trader (sometimes taking a loss).

The single biggest problem I have with the current system is its over reliance on guilds. Severing that tie would be a step in the right direction. The lack of global search functions (or even good search functions in the current interface) creates an incredibly tedious situation, not to mention an abusable one.

A previous poster said that AH is more abusable. Not nearly as much as this system. This system creates a far less informed population. Price checking is up in the air and it's near impossible to get reliable information (Master Merchant is laughable for price checks since it's only using data from guilds a player is currently in). This creates a situation that is far more open to manipulation than if the population had easier access to more reliable data (thus, being an informed population). AH is also more susceptible to market flooding, which makes it very risky to attempt market cornering as compared to the fragmented system currently in place. Price creep on an AH would spiral downwards as more people put up the same items that get bought at a pace that's near impossible for an abuser to keep up with. Not nearly as big of a problem in the current system since there is no global market to worry about, an abuser only need tend to his/her area. The notion that an AH is more open to abuse is absurd. This system is highly susceptible to abuse by anyone ambitious enough.

tordr86b16_ESO · August 2015

Because the people that run these guilds make it their GAME. They put hundreds of hours maintaining, keeping the stores full and placing high bigs for locations that bring in the most profits.

strikeback1247 · August 2015

Tandor wrote: »

The trading system is not open to all. You can't sell an item if you don't join a guild, and even if you do join a guild you still can't sell an item if your guild hasn't won a trader that week.

These two statements are completely wrong. You can easily use zone chat to sell your items and console players can use voice chat. Furthermore, there are enough guilds that do not have a trader and still sell items. You have a higher chance of selling an item with a guild trader, but you can easily sell stuff to other guild members.

Even if you can't sell your items, lower the price or you can always sell them to the good ol' NPC stores

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2015

Krayor wrote: »

I don't like being forced to join multiple trading guilds in order to reliably sell items.

You don't have to, one is enough. Even none if you use zone/area chat to sell.

Krayor wrote: »

I don't like to be forced to log into the game in order to keep my spot in trading guilds during times I'd like time off from the game (this creates burnout).

Most guilds have a 7 days policy so that shouldn't be an issue. If you want to log on even less than that, forget about trading anyway, just like IRL, your business won't run if you don't actively take care of it and play/farm to replenish your stocks.

Krayor wrote: »

I don't like being forced to find new trading guilds when the ones I have been in fall apart due to burnout.

It's not difficuult to find a trading guild, and anyway, that's not a trading system relevant issue, it's a general guild issue. Many PVE/PVP/social guilds have fallen apart due to burnout of leaders or members and, while not enjoyable, it's part of MMO life. Now if you don't like guilds at all, maybe this is the wrong game for you. Past level 50, ESO is very guild-oriented for anything.

Krayor wrote: »

I don't like being forced to give large sums of money in order to just sell items on a guild trader (sometimes taking a loss).

You don't have to. Many guilds don't require fees. If you refer to the 7% taxes/house cut, that's not a lot of money and you can't take a loss on that anyway (unless you place your items at unrealistic prices anyway).

Krayor wrote: »

The single biggest problem I have with the current system is its over reliance on guilds.

The entire game relies on guild past level 50.

As to the rest, I agree with you that the search interface at guild store could be vastly improved (re. Awesome Guild Store addon on PC. I'd be annoyed too if I did not have it if I played on console).

I disagree as to a global AH being less abusable than the current system but I agree that's debatable.

As to buyer's information, yes gathering pricing and market information requires some work and time, that's what makes it a game. Every buyer is responsible for gathering the information he needs, and if decides not to, he has a risk of buying overpriced. That's part of the game. Just like running whatever dungeon is more difficult if you haven't taken the time and effort to gather adequate gear.

You want trade to be a convenient feature, I like it to be a part of the game that requires playtime and effort, that's what it comes down to and where we can agree to disagree.

Lucio · August 2015

No auction house = no economy, pretty frustrating without item search option and guild trading tax

Callous2208 · August 2015

Lucio wrote: »

No auction house = no economy, pretty frustrating without item search option and guild trading tax

No Auction House=No Economy-Completely False. As to your other points, I thought in most games global AH's had a house cut tax implemented as well. Search would probably be a nice convenience tool for the console crowd.

F7sus4 · August 2015

The main problem of the "horror" is that everyone wants to run a guild from scratch and be successful at it, instead of joining one that is established already.

It's like you'd run a small grocery store in the suburbs and complained about not becoming Walmart in a few months. Everything is possible, yet not everything is meant for everybody.

GuyNamedSean · August 2015

F7sus4 wrote: »

The main problem of the "horror" is that everyone wants to run a guild from scratch and be successful at it, instead of joining one that is established already.

It's like you'd run a small grocery store in the suburbs and complained about not becoming Walmart in a few months. Everything is possible, yet not everything is meant for everybody.

You're right. I do want to have my own that I started from scratch. There weren't really any already established, though, as I started it on console launch with a group of previous friends and gathered about half of our most loyal members in the first week of the game.

When it comes to trading in person, that isn't terribly easy right now. As the PC guys are starting to realise from the grievances of console players, our economy is currently being ransacked by players that moved from PC and are still exploiting their massive advantage. Granted we've had the time to foster some home-grown millionaires, there just hasn't been enough time for our issues to be remedied. If I go out and sell my wares in person, I have three options realistically: low-levelled areas full of players who don't fully understand the benefits of what I'm trying to sell(in my case arms, armour, and provisioning), players that are in the mid-ranged populace cities in which I must shout over a cacophony of other traders hoping that somehow my wares are better or cheaper than theirs, or in the high levelled areas where no-one wants to buy anything but the absolute top-tier of materials for dirt cheap as they often have a guildmate that can construct it or supply it for them.

There simply isn't much option for small time traders on consoles right now. An example from my personal experience:
I prefer wearing Dwemer armour with Daedric weapons. I'm VR8 right now, nearly VR9, so I can gather the Daedra Hearts easily without even taking time to farm them. They just appear in loot. As far as anyone I've talked to can tell, the drop rate for Dwemer Scrap has been reduced. We simply cannot find them as easily anymore. I decided to go out and sell provisioning supplies because I have at least twenty of every ingredient and a recipe for nearly every affect at every level.

Davon's Watch: No-one interested in food or drinks of any sort.
Mournhold: No-one interested even after acknowledging that my prices were under what was normal.
Windhelm: No-one interested.
Riften: Two people interested in 5000 gold total between them and one guy that wanted purples better than VR10.
Coldharbour: No-one interested.
All Cadwell's Silver and Gold cities were dead quiet.
Belkarth: PC import VR14s and top-tier console players bragging about scamming noobs and farming Monster Masks.

I ended up having to just sell my supply of Perfect Roe to gather money to buy Dwemer Frames. One of my mates was farming Dwemer ruins for two hours at this same time and only gathered six scraps and a few blue and Dwemer motifs to sell, made a tad less money than me (2500 to my 3000).

The economy is very rough on consoles from right now and every time I encounter PC import players they tend to be discussing taking advantage of their pre-existing wealth to profit off the conditions.

But again I will say, I'll trust you PC bros that it's just a matter of time before our economy stabilises.

gard · August 2015

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

The idea of needing to be in a guild to sell to other players is, and always will be, completely stupid. Right now, I have an Argonian and Altmer motif sitting in my inventory gathering dust. I would LOVE to sell these, but I'm not joining a guild that I don't even want to be a part of in the first place and is most likely going to charge me for membership, just to sell two items. Instead, my only options are to NPC them and get 10 gold each, or let them sit and take up space. I would need a hundred of them just to make up for the price I COULD be selling them for. And the bank and inventory space are EXTREMELY limited even without dead weight sitting there, which I could expand IF I could make a decent amount of gold in this game. So basically, my only two options are non-options. The most insane thing about this is that people think this is GOOD.

There's a third option (possibly, depending on whether you play PC):

Zone chat.

gard · August 2015

I very rarely buy things from guild traders. Simply because I can't be bothered to waste time hopping around from trader to trader looking for what I want.

Maybe I'm not the typical player though.

Xendyn · August 2015

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

When it comes to trading in person, that isn't terribly easy right now. As the PC guys are starting to realise from the grievances of console players, our economy is currently being ransacked by players that moved from PC and are still exploiting their massive advantage. Granted we've had the time to foster some home-grown millionaires, there just hasn't been enough time for our issues to be remedied.

The economy is very rough on consoles from right now and every time I encounter PC import players they tend to be discussing taking advantage of their pre-existing wealth to profit off the conditions.

But again I will say, I'll trust you PC bros that it's just a matter of time before our economy stabilises.

To those bolded parts there, naw man we Saw this coming as soon as they announced how they were doing the transfers. We even had people posting on here how they were going to "borrow" mats and gold in order to go into console release as filthy rich gougers. Seeing some of the prices on here for things like Daedra Hearts and Improvement mats, just has us shaking our heads.

We tried to tell ZOS this wasn't going to be good but they weren't listening.

ZOS made two major mistakes with consoles: allowing those transfers without inventory limits and not giving you guys text chat to be able to advertise to the entire zone outside of the guilds. That's an error on the Dev's part tho, not the fault of the Guild Kiosk system.

I do feel that it will equalize with time as you guys get your supplies built up and start weeding out those bad guilds that overcharge both their customers and members.
Good Luck over there and know you have the support of at least some of us on PC.

Whendim_ESO · August 2015

Art Imitates Life. A small cadre of super corps affecting the world economy. I wonder if you can become too big to fail in an MMORPG?

Zorrashi · August 2015

Whendim_ESO wrote: »

Art Imitates Life. A small cadre of super corps affecting the world economy. I wonder if you can become too big to fail in an MMORPG?

The small cadre of super corps guilds only affect the economy if you let them (i.e you buy from them). The only reason people buy at their premium prices is because they are paying for convenience. Several on the side of the road kiosks offer the same products for much much cheaper precisely because they get less player traffic and they know it so they adjust prices accordingly.

It is not only the "super guilds" that succeed in this economy.

Whendim_ESO · August 2015

Zorrashi wrote: »

Whendim_ESO wrote: »

Art Imitates Life. A small cadre of super corps affecting the world economy. I wonder if you can become too big to fail in an MMORPG?

The small cadre of super corps guilds only affect the economy if you let them (i.e you buy from them). The only reason people buy at their premium prices is because they are paying for convenience. Several on the side of the road kiosks offer the same products for much much cheaper precisely because they get less player traffic and they know it so they adjust prices accordingly.

It is not only the "super guilds" that succeed in this economy.

What you say is true (I'm in one of those smaller guilds that's more social and isn't focued on the trade game), but like in real life, lots of people opt for convenience, or name recognition or fashion, which feeds into bigger companies getting bigger and small mom and pop stores getting forced out. Once Wal-Mart has decimated the competition, the store prices go up.

Personofsecrets · August 2015

If you can't find goods at cheaper than Rawlka prices, then you have l2p problem.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2015

Whendim_ESO wrote: »

Once Wal-Mart has decimated the competition, the store prices go up.

Except for the fact that, in ESO, a guild can only bid on ONE trader and thus cannot eliminate smaller guilds.

Some big guilds try to run "several guilds" at once but they usually fail, since it's very hard to coordinate and control.
The system works.

Tan9oSuccka · August 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Whendim_ESO wrote: »

Once Wal-Mart has decimated the competition, the store prices go up.

Except for the fact that, in ESO, a guild can only bid on ONE trader and thus cannot eliminate smaller guilds.

Some big guilds try to run "several guilds" at once but they usually fail, since it's very hard to coordinate and control.
The system works.

If I want a simple baked potato recipe, I need to visit multiple zones all across Tamriel with most guild stores being pretty much empty.

Handy! The system works!