Stamina Sorcerers - the next steps for zos

Yolokin_Swagonborn · August 2015

Why oh why would you guys want to keep Crystal Blast as a projectile? The projectile from that morph actually exits the atmosphere and flies to the moon and back before it hits someone. I laugh whenever I catch someone using that morph in PvP and will still laugh if it becomes a stamina morph without some changes first.

Stamina builds are MELEE. Crystal fragments works because it procs off of magicka abilities and becomes instant cast.
Crystal Punch needs to pack a punch like surprise attack and have the same melee range. No CC. Give it some weak AoE effect (like it currently have) to keep Emma happy. Or we all pay Emma gold to give up that morph since they are the only ones in the entire game that uses it

I'm trying to put Melee sorc on par with other stamina builds and some of you want stamina damage shields? Perhaps but I don't see that as top priority at all. How can we ever pitch this to ZOS if we cant even agree among ourselves on what makes a good stam sorc

@cozmon3c_ESO Help us out here. We need to find common ground.

Edit: He's Banned??? RIP Leper Si. We can't afford to lose any stam sorcs. There aren't many of us left.

@sabresandiego_ESO Are you still around? I know you abandoned stam sorc a while ago. What would make you return? Check my Post earlier in this thread and see if you agree. Would be fun to see you take up the 2 hander sorc again.

Xael · August 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Survivability is fine. I have weeks of PvP across various different Stamina Sorcs on PTS v2.1. We need more options for damage. Again, we are still a class neutral weapon with the option of skill bloat to make use of passives that barely change anything.

I keep seeing a PvE self proclaimed carebear Magicka Sorc recommending shields, you don't even play a stam sorc, let alone pvp with one. With Rally/Vigor, Boundless Storm, and Shuffle (or Efficient Purge) I have plenty of Survivability. Please stop beating the dead horse regarding something you don't understand. If I were to connect the dots this is your way of shifting the spotlight off Crystal Blast seeing you are the only person showing up consistently in every thread about Stam Sorcs defending the ability and proposing some strange paradigm related to a facet of gameplay you have nothing to do with in the first place.

All these proposed changes are way too much and will not happen. First it's too much work, second it's way too many changes other classes don't even have the luxury of.

Again, coming from someone that PvPs regularly on a Stamina Sorc (in the current v2.1 meta) all we need is Stamina morph of Crystal Blast that mirrors the Frag morph. This will also make use of the Dark Magic passives, something most Stam Sorc lack.

Crystal Blast:
(Crystal Blast Rank IV)
Cost - 2268 Stamina | Cast Time - 1s | Radius/Range 28m range (Enemy)
Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing [x] Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.

Casting other spells & abilities has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Fragments to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.

Chance to make ability instant cast.

Now scales off Weapon Damage and Max Stamina.

Also a redesign to the Exploitation passive:
Rank I
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 10 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 39

Rank II
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 20 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 50

Problem solved, Stam Sorcs now awesome.

Since I assume your insulting comment was directed at me, I'm going to respond to it.

"I keep seeing a PvE self proclaimed carebear Magicka Sorc recommending shields, you don't even play a stam sorc, let alone pvp with one... Please stop beating the dead horse regarding something you don't understand."

The reason I rarely build my Sorc for Stamina is because StamSorc is weak as f*** and can't do half the things a Magicka Sorc can, but I do experiment from time to time. I would LOVE to play a Stamina build, but what is the point if the basic Sorc survivability skills are so heavily gimped? Surge Healing is OK against single targets, but it fails bigtime when there are multiple enemies hitting you hard. Hardened Ward scales off Magicka, so it sucks for Stamina builds. The Clannfear costs plenty of Magicka to summon, only around half of which is returned when it dies, so I don't see Stamina builds constantly re-summoning to out-heal damage. Bolt Escape is already being nerfed into a "luxury" spell for Magicka Sorcs, I don't expect to see Stamina Sorcs using it much at all.

I think it's funny you talk about "something you don't understand" when it is clearly YOU who have the extremely narrow view of the issues facing Stamina Sorcs, I'm guessing because you are a PvP-centric player who is clueless about the much larger game being played outside of Cyrodiil. Let me make it simple for you:

There have been TWO eras for Sorcs in relation to survivability. The first era lasted from Launch until Update 1.6, and during this time it was expected that Sorcs, both Magicka and Stamina, would depend on Critical Surge as a self-healing mechanic. BTW, you can go to any theory-crafting forum such as Tamriel Foundry and find builds posted during that era that describe Surge as our most important, class-defining skill.

Then came the second era, when Surge was nerfed by Update 1.6, but Conjured Ward was buffed as compensation. It quickly became clear, even when 1.6 was still on the PTS, that ZOS expected Sorcs to use this Ward as their main "heal", even though technically it's not a real heal. This is ALSO when it became apparent that ZOS didn't give a rat's ass about Stamina Sorcs, because if they did, they would have give Ward a Stamina morph! Instead, only Magicka Sorcs were left with a decent size shield. Which brings us to today and THIS thread...

I don't know if you've noticed, but Bolt Escape isn't the only thing getting nerfed in Update 1.7/2.1. Blocking and Dodging are ALSO getting horrible nerfs! You know, those two mechanics that Stamina builds use to mitigate or avoid damage? It turns out that Stamina builds ARE going to have to eat full damage from time to time. Wouldn't it be nice if Stamina Sorcs had a big ass WARD to eat that damage for them?

But, no, you don't care about all that, you just want that gimmicky Crystal Frag proc, LOL. And you say I don't understand...

First off, you were not insulted, unless standing in front of a mirror is an insult? I did not insult and I ask you to retract that.
You claim (your words) to be a "carebear." You are a magicka Sorc. You don't PvP, you don't PvP as a Stamina Sorc. You don't even play a Stamina Sorc.

Now, all I did was point that out, that is not an insult. If this is insulting then I am the new king of Spain. Guess what? I don't even speak Spanish, they're screwed.

Next, you tell me Stam Sorcs are "weak as ***." How would you know? You don't play one, let alone pvp with one. I do quite well with my Stamina Sorc, so does Fengrush. I can't speak for Erock because I have not had the pleasure of playing with him yet. Hell I even rolled a brand new Stam Sorc on live DC. If they suck so much why would I do that?

So let's dissect your claims. Rally and Vigor keep me healed up. I also have Boundless Storm. I take less damage than Templars and Nightblades, not sure why I need more survivability, but I will gladly take it, maybe I can be unkillable... You provide some hypothesis with a clannfear and mobs hitting you... wtf is this silliness? IF you are stamina, you have weapon skill lines like 2h which have Brawler (gives you a damage bubble and cone aoe), and you have Shuffle and 1hS abilities... You also have Lightning Form, Rally, Vigor, Crit Surge, etc. Just stop.

How is it I "have the extremely narrow view of the issues facing Stamina Sorcs" when I am the only one of us playing one? Let alone PvPing with it. Explain that please. You have no objective information to offer when you don't play a class or pvp on said class that you posture about. All your pontificating is pointless and either based on speculation or hearsay from the forums or game chat.

I find it strange you wish to direct me to eras and leave out major issues. First of all, I was a big contributor to Tamriel Foundry Sorc stuff, maybe YOU should go back and look. Second I was alive and kicking hard as hell during those "Eras." PvE until Craglorn was a joke. You could do any delve or content with the most worthless of builds and skate by. Thanks for leave that out. CC did not have immunity built in. You left that out as well. Why? Oh wait, you don't have a leg to stand on. Let's look further... Without CC immunity built in, you could endlessly knockback World Bosses/Elites with abilities like Magnum Shot, Frags, Wrecking Blow, etc. All of these used by STAMINA SOCERERS... omg? Thanks for conveniently leaving that out.

Crit Surge was nice, but we still had Rally and Resto abilities. Not sure about you, but I was softcapped in my stats so healing was Resto was commonplace for people with balanced stats no matter Stam or Magicka. Newsflash, most people put all their attribute points into Health and staves scaled off Stamina and Weapon Damage/Power.

I really don't care about Conjured Ward. I didn't then, I don't now. As a Stamina Sorc it's irrelevant, even for PvE endgame. I guess you never heard of raiding where people in the raid give buffs/heals to people. I guess you also still have yet to discover Lightning Form provides you with Major Resolve and Major Ward, Bound Armor gives Minor Resolve, Combat Prayer gives Minor Ward/Resolve and Berserk to boot. Strange eh? That alone is a crazy amount of mitigation. In raids you have healers providing these buffs and as a Sorc you have your own buffs already as either Stam or Magicka, that said your response is meaningless.

You mention block and dodge nerfs as if I don't pvp... I think I am well aware of the limit of dodge rolling and blocking. Again, I have Boundless Storm. I don't take a lot of damage and I survive very well with Rally and Vigor ticking alongside my Shuffle/Boundless. I also have Efficient Purge (if I need it). Maybe you should read the tooltips on these abilities and learn what they mean. Stop projecting hypothesis onto me, I play the build and I pvp with it. I don't need someone pushing their opinion on me when they themselves don't even play the class/build or PvP.

You are right, I do say you don't understand. I am not alone in this. The issue for the longest time has been that Stamina Sorcs are class neutral weapon specs, it still stands today on PTS. You go to great lengths to defend and save your horrible morph, your response doesn't surprise me.

Xael · August 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Why oh why would you guys want to keep Crystal Blast as a projectile? The projectile from that morph actually exits the atmosphere and flies to the moon and back before it hits someone. I laugh whenever I catch someone using that morph in PvP and will still laugh if it becomes a stamina morph without some changes first.

Stamina builds are MELEE. Crystal fragments works because it procs off of magicka abilities and becomes instant cast.
Crystal Punch needs to pack a punch like surprise attack and have the same melee range. No CC. Give it some weak AoE effect (like it currently have) to keep Emma happy. Or we all pay Emma gold to give up that morph since they are the only ones in the entire game that uses it

I'm trying to put Melee sorc on par with other stamina builds and some of you want stamina damage shields? Perhaps but I don't see that as top priority at all. How can we ever pitch this to ZOS if we cant even agree among ourselves on what makes a good stam sorc

@cozmon3c_ESO Help us out here. We need to find common ground.

Because as a Stamina Sorc, something I actually play and PvP with, we have enough melee already. Back before caps were removed Cystal Frag was a staple to most Stam Sorcs and used well with Crit Rush or DW builds. We procced it constantly with Boundless Storm and Crit Surge. Still would work the same way.

Stamina builds are not just melee... Guess you have yet to see a Bow, try one. Flying Blade is ranged as well. Even Wrecking Blow has a decent range. Don't even get me started on class abilities like Javelin.

I don't know why you are talking about a crystal "punch", it's neither here nor there.
Leper is banned. If you need to get a message from him let me know and I will tell him. Also he already sides with me on this.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · August 2015

Xael wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Why oh why would you guys want to keep Crystal Blast as a projectile? The projectile from that morph actually exits the atmosphere and flies to the moon and back before it hits someone. I laugh whenever I catch someone using that morph in PvP and will still laugh if it becomes a stamina morph without some changes first.

Stamina builds are MELEE. Crystal fragments works because it procs off of magicka abilities and becomes instant cast.
Crystal Punch needs to pack a punch like surprise attack and have the same melee range. No CC. Give it some weak AoE effect (like it currently have) to keep Emma happy. Or we all pay Emma gold to give up that morph since they are the only ones in the entire game that uses it

I'm trying to put Melee sorc on par with other stamina builds and some of you want stamina damage shields? Perhaps but I don't see that as top priority at all. How can we ever pitch this to ZOS if we cant even agree among ourselves on what makes a good stam sorc

@cozmon3c_ESO Help us out here. We need to find common ground.

Because as a Stamina Sorc, something I actually play and PvP with, we have enough melee already. Back before caps were removed Cystal Frag was a staple to most Stam Sorcs and used well with Crit Rush or DW builds. We procced it constantly with Boundless Storm and Crit Surge. Still would work the same way.

Stamina builds are not just melee... Guess you have yet to see a Bow, try one. Flying Blade is ranged as well. Even Wrecking Blow has a decent range. Don't even get me started on class abilities like Javelin.

I don't know why you are talking about a crystal "punch", it's neither here nor there.
Leper is banned. If you need to get a message from him let me know and I will tell him. Also he already sides with me on this.

Back in 1.5 frags was a staple for "stam sorc" because "stam sorc" wasn't really a true stamina build. It was a hybrid build. You could run 2.5k stam, 2k magicka and 2.5K health and have all the things. Hell I ran curse with my stam build and hardened ward as well. Hybrid builds are dead and projectiles are useless in PvP unless they are instant cast, hard to see (like the bow skills), or very fast like venom arrow.

Crystal Blast is reflectable, dodgeable, clunky and useless as a magicka ability and will still be all that as a stam ability. If you want ranged on your stam sorc, run 2h/Bow.

I don't expect Leper to agree with me, I just wanted his voice in here with the rest of us so we can try to find some common ground. Sad to hear he was silenced.

Edit: if you absolutely need it to be ranged, then call it crystal buckshot and make it function like the bow bombard skill with a narrow cone AOE. Just dont make it have a cast time or be reflect-able. I could deal with conal AOE, that would also satisfy emma who is an aoe fan, and satisfy me since it wouldnt be absorbed by S&B tanks or reflected in my face.

Xael · August 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Why oh why would you guys want to keep Crystal Blast as a projectile? The projectile from that morph actually exits the atmosphere and flies to the moon and back before it hits someone. I laugh whenever I catch someone using that morph in PvP and will still laugh if it becomes a stamina morph without some changes first.

Stamina builds are MELEE. Crystal fragments works because it procs off of magicka abilities and becomes instant cast.
Crystal Punch needs to pack a punch like surprise attack and have the same melee range. No CC. Give it some weak AoE effect (like it currently have) to keep Emma happy. Or we all pay Emma gold to give up that morph since they are the only ones in the entire game that uses it

I'm trying to put Melee sorc on par with other stamina builds and some of you want stamina damage shields? Perhaps but I don't see that as top priority at all. How can we ever pitch this to ZOS if we cant even agree among ourselves on what makes a good stam sorc

@cozmon3c_ESO Help us out here. We need to find common ground.

Because as a Stamina Sorc, something I actually play and PvP with, we have enough melee already. Back before caps were removed Cystal Frag was a staple to most Stam Sorcs and used well with Crit Rush or DW builds. We procced it constantly with Boundless Storm and Crit Surge. Still would work the same way.

Stamina builds are not just melee... Guess you have yet to see a Bow, try one. Flying Blade is ranged as well. Even Wrecking Blow has a decent range. Don't even get me started on class abilities like Javelin.

I don't know why you are talking about a crystal "punch", it's neither here nor there.
Leper is banned. If you need to get a message from him let me know and I will tell him. Also he already sides with me on this.

Back in 1.5 frags was a staple for "stam sorc" because "stam sorc" wasn't really a true stamina build. It was a hybrid build. You could run 2.5k stam, 2k magicka and 2.5K health and have all the things. Hell I ran curse with my stam build and hardened ward as well. Hybrid builds are dead and projectiles are useless in PvP unless they are instant cast, hard to see (like the bow skills), or very fast like venom arrow.

Crystal Blast is reflectable, dodgeable, clunky and useless as a magicka ability and will still be all that as a stam ability. If you want ranged on your stam sorc, run 2h/Bow.

I don't expect Leper to agree with me, I just wanted his voice in here with the rest of us so we can try to find some common ground. Sad to hear he was silenced.

First, 1.5 was vastly different than 1.4 and lower.
In 1.5 most everyone was 1hS/Resto, Light Armor, Impen. Crit Surge was crap and hybrid died (particularly when caps got raised). I mentioned caps being raised not because of damage but it was around this time everyone shifted to 1hS with reflect/Lightarmor spell resist builds with impen. Burst builds were crap at this point unless you were doing a sneak attack build.

I have no idea why you are responding with any of this, it's irrelevant and not related at all contextually to what I wrote.

Regarding projectiles, if Blast was changed to a Stamina morph that functioned like Frags it would work extremely well. Even right now on my magicka sorc I melt people with Frag procs constantly. If you think Frags is useless I guess you have not pvped in the past 5 months, particularly with people like me and Pixy out there melting frags... Also you can cloak this ability within other abilities like Wrecking Blow or Crit Rush, not to mention other various methods.

Dracane · August 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Survivability is fine. I have weeks of PvP across various different Stamina Sorcs on PTS v2.1. We need more options for damage. Again, we are still a class neutral weapon with the option of skill bloat to make use of passives that barely change anything.

I keep seeing a PvE self proclaimed carebear Magicka Sorc recommending shields, you don't even play a stam sorc, let alone pvp with one. With Rally/Vigor, Boundless Storm, and Shuffle (or Efficient Purge) I have plenty of Survivability. Please stop beating the dead horse regarding something you don't understand. If I were to connect the dots this is your way of shifting the spotlight off Crystal Blast seeing you are the only person showing up consistently in every thread about Stam Sorcs defending the ability and proposing some strange paradigm related to a facet of gameplay you have nothing to do with in the first place.

All these proposed changes are way too much and will not happen. First it's too much work, second it's way too many changes other classes don't even have the luxury of.

Again, coming from someone that PvPs regularly on a Stamina Sorc (in the current v2.1 meta) all we need is Stamina morph of Crystal Blast that mirrors the Frag morph. This will also make use of the Dark Magic passives, something most Stam Sorc lack.

Crystal Blast:
(Crystal Blast Rank IV)
Cost - 2268 Stamina | Cast Time - 1s | Radius/Range 28m range (Enemy)
Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing [x] Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.

Casting other spells & abilities has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Fragments to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.

Chance to make ability instant cast.

Now scales off Weapon Damage and Max Stamina.

Also a redesign to the Exploitation passive:
Rank I
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 10 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 39

Rank II
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 20 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 50

Problem solved, Stam Sorcs now awesome.

Since I assume your insulting comment was directed at me, I'm going to respond to it.

"I keep seeing a PvE self proclaimed carebear Magicka Sorc recommending shields, you don't even play a stam sorc, let alone pvp with one... Please stop beating the dead horse regarding something you don't understand."

The reason I rarely build my Sorc for Stamina is because StamSorc is weak as f*** and can't do half the things a Magicka Sorc can, but I do experiment from time to time. I would LOVE to play a Stamina build, but what is the point if the basic Sorc survivability skills are so heavily gimped? Surge Healing is OK against single targets, but it fails bigtime when there are multiple enemies hitting you hard. Hardened Ward scales off Magicka, so it sucks for Stamina builds. The Clannfear costs plenty of Magicka to summon, only around half of which is returned when it dies, so I don't see Stamina builds constantly re-summoning to out-heal damage. Bolt Escape is already being nerfed into a "luxury" spell for Magicka Sorcs, I don't expect to see Stamina Sorcs using it much at all.

I think it's funny you talk about "something you don't understand" when it is clearly YOU who have the extremely narrow view of the issues facing Stamina Sorcs, I'm guessing because you are a PvP-centric player who is clueless about the much larger game being played outside of Cyrodiil. Let me make it simple for you:

There have been TWO eras for Sorcs in relation to survivability. The first era lasted from Launch until Update 1.6, and during this time it was expected that Sorcs, both Magicka and Stamina, would depend on Critical Surge as a self-healing mechanic. BTW, you can go to any theory-crafting forum such as Tamriel Foundry and find builds posted during that era that describe Surge as our most important, class-defining skill.

Then came the second era, when Surge was nerfed by Update 1.6, but Conjured Ward was buffed as compensation. It quickly became clear, even when 1.6 was still on the PTS, that ZOS expected Sorcs to use this Ward as their main "heal", even though technically it's not a real heal. This is ALSO when it became apparent that ZOS didn't give a rat's ass about Stamina Sorcs, because if they did, they would have give Ward a Stamina morph! Instead, only Magicka Sorcs were left with a decent size shield. Which brings us to today and THIS thread...

I don't know if you've noticed, but Bolt Escape isn't the only thing getting nerfed in Update 1.7/2.1. Blocking and Dodging are ALSO getting horrible nerfs! You know, those two mechanics that Stamina builds use to mitigate or avoid damage? It turns out that Stamina builds ARE going to have to eat full damage from time to time. Wouldn't it be nice if Stamina Sorcs had a big ass WARD to eat that damage for them?

But, no, you don't care about all that, you just want that gimmicky Crystal Frag proc, LOL. And you say I don't understand...

He's accusing you of beating a dead horse either ? He tried the same with me.
I wouldn't worry too much if I was you, you're right with your arguments.

Xael · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Survivability is fine. I have weeks of PvP across various different Stamina Sorcs on PTS v2.1. We need more options for damage. Again, we are still a class neutral weapon with the option of skill bloat to make use of passives that barely change anything.

I keep seeing a PvE self proclaimed carebear Magicka Sorc recommending shields, you don't even play a stam sorc, let alone pvp with one. With Rally/Vigor, Boundless Storm, and Shuffle (or Efficient Purge) I have plenty of Survivability. Please stop beating the dead horse regarding something you don't understand. If I were to connect the dots this is your way of shifting the spotlight off Crystal Blast seeing you are the only person showing up consistently in every thread about Stam Sorcs defending the ability and proposing some strange paradigm related to a facet of gameplay you have nothing to do with in the first place.

All these proposed changes are way too much and will not happen. First it's too much work, second it's way too many changes other classes don't even have the luxury of.

Again, coming from someone that PvPs regularly on a Stamina Sorc (in the current v2.1 meta) all we need is Stamina morph of Crystal Blast that mirrors the Frag morph. This will also make use of the Dark Magic passives, something most Stam Sorc lack.

Crystal Blast:
(Crystal Blast Rank IV)
Cost - 2268 Stamina | Cast Time - 1s | Radius/Range 28m range (Enemy)
Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing [x] Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.

Casting other spells & abilities has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Fragments to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.

Chance to make ability instant cast.

Now scales off Weapon Damage and Max Stamina.

Also a redesign to the Exploitation passive:
Rank I
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 10 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 39

Rank II
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 20 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 50

Problem solved, Stam Sorcs now awesome.

Since I assume your insulting comment was directed at me, I'm going to respond to it.

"I keep seeing a PvE self proclaimed carebear Magicka Sorc recommending shields, you don't even play a stam sorc, let alone pvp with one... Please stop beating the dead horse regarding something you don't understand."

The reason I rarely build my Sorc for Stamina is because StamSorc is weak as f*** and can't do half the things a Magicka Sorc can, but I do experiment from time to time. I would LOVE to play a Stamina build, but what is the point if the basic Sorc survivability skills are so heavily gimped? Surge Healing is OK against single targets, but it fails bigtime when there are multiple enemies hitting you hard. Hardened Ward scales off Magicka, so it sucks for Stamina builds. The Clannfear costs plenty of Magicka to summon, only around half of which is returned when it dies, so I don't see Stamina builds constantly re-summoning to out-heal damage. Bolt Escape is already being nerfed into a "luxury" spell for Magicka Sorcs, I don't expect to see Stamina Sorcs using it much at all.

I think it's funny you talk about "something you don't understand" when it is clearly YOU who have the extremely narrow view of the issues facing Stamina Sorcs, I'm guessing because you are a PvP-centric player who is clueless about the much larger game being played outside of Cyrodiil. Let me make it simple for you:

There have been TWO eras for Sorcs in relation to survivability. The first era lasted from Launch until Update 1.6, and during this time it was expected that Sorcs, both Magicka and Stamina, would depend on Critical Surge as a self-healing mechanic. BTW, you can go to any theory-crafting forum such as Tamriel Foundry and find builds posted during that era that describe Surge as our most important, class-defining skill.

Then came the second era, when Surge was nerfed by Update 1.6, but Conjured Ward was buffed as compensation. It quickly became clear, even when 1.6 was still on the PTS, that ZOS expected Sorcs to use this Ward as their main "heal", even though technically it's not a real heal. This is ALSO when it became apparent that ZOS didn't give a rat's ass about Stamina Sorcs, because if they did, they would have give Ward a Stamina morph! Instead, only Magicka Sorcs were left with a decent size shield. Which brings us to today and THIS thread...

I don't know if you've noticed, but Bolt Escape isn't the only thing getting nerfed in Update 1.7/2.1. Blocking and Dodging are ALSO getting horrible nerfs! You know, those two mechanics that Stamina builds use to mitigate or avoid damage? It turns out that Stamina builds ARE going to have to eat full damage from time to time. Wouldn't it be nice if Stamina Sorcs had a big ass WARD to eat that damage for them?

But, no, you don't care about all that, you just want that gimmicky Crystal Frag proc, LOL. And you say I don't understand...

He's accusing you of beating a dead horse either ? He tried the same with me.
I wouldn't worry too much if I was you, you're right with your arguments.

"Nightblades and Cloak are OP" spam and "Sorcerer's shouldn't be able to play as a Stamina build"? Yeah, you are definitely "special". I have never seen anyone openly, myopically say something like "x class should not be allowed to play as a stamina build." Thanks for that.

Dracane · August 2015

Xael wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Survivability is fine. I have weeks of PvP across various different Stamina Sorcs on PTS v2.1. We need more options for damage. Again, we are still a class neutral weapon with the option of skill bloat to make use of passives that barely change anything.

I keep seeing a PvE self proclaimed carebear Magicka Sorc recommending shields, you don't even play a stam sorc, let alone pvp with one. With Rally/Vigor, Boundless Storm, and Shuffle (or Efficient Purge) I have plenty of Survivability. Please stop beating the dead horse regarding something you don't understand. If I were to connect the dots this is your way of shifting the spotlight off Crystal Blast seeing you are the only person showing up consistently in every thread about Stam Sorcs defending the ability and proposing some strange paradigm related to a facet of gameplay you have nothing to do with in the first place.

All these proposed changes are way too much and will not happen. First it's too much work, second it's way too many changes other classes don't even have the luxury of.

Again, coming from someone that PvPs regularly on a Stamina Sorc (in the current v2.1 meta) all we need is Stamina morph of Crystal Blast that mirrors the Frag morph. This will also make use of the Dark Magic passives, something most Stam Sorc lack.

Crystal Blast:
(Crystal Blast Rank IV)
Cost - 2268 Stamina | Cast Time - 1s | Radius/Range 28m range (Enemy)
Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing [x] Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.

Casting other spells & abilities has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Fragments to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.

Chance to make ability instant cast.

Now scales off Weapon Damage and Max Stamina.

Also a redesign to the Exploitation passive:
Rank I
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 10 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 39

Rank II
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 20 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 50

Problem solved, Stam Sorcs now awesome.

Since I assume your insulting comment was directed at me, I'm going to respond to it.

"I keep seeing a PvE self proclaimed carebear Magicka Sorc recommending shields, you don't even play a stam sorc, let alone pvp with one... Please stop beating the dead horse regarding something you don't understand."

The reason I rarely build my Sorc for Stamina is because StamSorc is weak as f*** and can't do half the things a Magicka Sorc can, but I do experiment from time to time. I would LOVE to play a Stamina build, but what is the point if the basic Sorc survivability skills are so heavily gimped? Surge Healing is OK against single targets, but it fails bigtime when there are multiple enemies hitting you hard. Hardened Ward scales off Magicka, so it sucks for Stamina builds. The Clannfear costs plenty of Magicka to summon, only around half of which is returned when it dies, so I don't see Stamina builds constantly re-summoning to out-heal damage. Bolt Escape is already being nerfed into a "luxury" spell for Magicka Sorcs, I don't expect to see Stamina Sorcs using it much at all.

I think it's funny you talk about "something you don't understand" when it is clearly YOU who have the extremely narrow view of the issues facing Stamina Sorcs, I'm guessing because you are a PvP-centric player who is clueless about the much larger game being played outside of Cyrodiil. Let me make it simple for you:

There have been TWO eras for Sorcs in relation to survivability. The first era lasted from Launch until Update 1.6, and during this time it was expected that Sorcs, both Magicka and Stamina, would depend on Critical Surge as a self-healing mechanic. BTW, you can go to any theory-crafting forum such as Tamriel Foundry and find builds posted during that era that describe Surge as our most important, class-defining skill.

Then came the second era, when Surge was nerfed by Update 1.6, but Conjured Ward was buffed as compensation. It quickly became clear, even when 1.6 was still on the PTS, that ZOS expected Sorcs to use this Ward as their main "heal", even though technically it's not a real heal. This is ALSO when it became apparent that ZOS didn't give a rat's ass about Stamina Sorcs, because if they did, they would have give Ward a Stamina morph! Instead, only Magicka Sorcs were left with a decent size shield. Which brings us to today and THIS thread...

I don't know if you've noticed, but Bolt Escape isn't the only thing getting nerfed in Update 1.7/2.1. Blocking and Dodging are ALSO getting horrible nerfs! You know, those two mechanics that Stamina builds use to mitigate or avoid damage? It turns out that Stamina builds ARE going to have to eat full damage from time to time. Wouldn't it be nice if Stamina Sorcs had a big ass WARD to eat that damage for them?

But, no, you don't care about all that, you just want that gimmicky Crystal Frag proc, LOL. And you say I don't understand...

He's accusing you of beating a dead horse either ? He tried the same with me.
I wouldn't worry too much if I was you, you're right with your arguments.

"Nightblades and Cloak are OP" spam and "Sorcerer's shouldn't be able to play as a Stamina build"? Yeah, you are definitely "special". I have never seen anyone openly, myopically say something like "x class should not be allowed to play as a stamina build." Thanks for that.

Okay

Where did I say this ? I didn't. But I'm used to your wild fantasy, so I don't mind anymore.
I say that Sorcerers selling point should be Magicka, that's it. Each class should perform each roll, but not each class performs equally good in each roll.

kkampaseb17_ESO · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Survivability is fine. I have weeks of PvP across various different Stamina Sorcs on PTS v2.1. We need more options for damage. Again, we are still a class neutral weapon with the option of skill bloat to make use of passives that barely change anything.

I keep seeing a PvE self proclaimed carebear Magicka Sorc recommending shields, you don't even play a stam sorc, let alone pvp with one. With Rally/Vigor, Boundless Storm, and Shuffle (or Efficient Purge) I have plenty of Survivability. Please stop beating the dead horse regarding something you don't understand. If I were to connect the dots this is your way of shifting the spotlight off Crystal Blast seeing you are the only person showing up consistently in every thread about Stam Sorcs defending the ability and proposing some strange paradigm related to a facet of gameplay you have nothing to do with in the first place.

All these proposed changes are way too much and will not happen. First it's too much work, second it's way too many changes other classes don't even have the luxury of.

Again, coming from someone that PvPs regularly on a Stamina Sorc (in the current v2.1 meta) all we need is Stamina morph of Crystal Blast that mirrors the Frag morph. This will also make use of the Dark Magic passives, something most Stam Sorc lack.

Crystal Blast:
(Crystal Blast Rank IV)
Cost - 2268 Stamina | Cast Time - 1s | Radius/Range 28m range (Enemy)
Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing [x] Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.

Casting other spells & abilities has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Fragments to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.

Chance to make ability instant cast.

Now scales off Weapon Damage and Max Stamina.

Also a redesign to the Exploitation passive:
Rank I
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 10 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 39

Rank II
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 20 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 50

Problem solved, Stam Sorcs now awesome.

Since I assume your insulting comment was directed at me, I'm going to respond to it.

"I keep seeing a PvE self proclaimed carebear Magicka Sorc recommending shields, you don't even play a stam sorc, let alone pvp with one... Please stop beating the dead horse regarding something you don't understand."

The reason I rarely build my Sorc for Stamina is because StamSorc is weak as f*** and can't do half the things a Magicka Sorc can, but I do experiment from time to time. I would LOVE to play a Stamina build, but what is the point if the basic Sorc survivability skills are so heavily gimped? Surge Healing is OK against single targets, but it fails bigtime when there are multiple enemies hitting you hard. Hardened Ward scales off Magicka, so it sucks for Stamina builds. The Clannfear costs plenty of Magicka to summon, only around half of which is returned when it dies, so I don't see Stamina builds constantly re-summoning to out-heal damage. Bolt Escape is already being nerfed into a "luxury" spell for Magicka Sorcs, I don't expect to see Stamina Sorcs using it much at all.

I think it's funny you talk about "something you don't understand" when it is clearly YOU who have the extremely narrow view of the issues facing Stamina Sorcs, I'm guessing because you are a PvP-centric player who is clueless about the much larger game being played outside of Cyrodiil. Let me make it simple for you:

There have been TWO eras for Sorcs in relation to survivability. The first era lasted from Launch until Update 1.6, and during this time it was expected that Sorcs, both Magicka and Stamina, would depend on Critical Surge as a self-healing mechanic. BTW, you can go to any theory-crafting forum such as Tamriel Foundry and find builds posted during that era that describe Surge as our most important, class-defining skill.

Then came the second era, when Surge was nerfed by Update 1.6, but Conjured Ward was buffed as compensation. It quickly became clear, even when 1.6 was still on the PTS, that ZOS expected Sorcs to use this Ward as their main "heal", even though technically it's not a real heal. This is ALSO when it became apparent that ZOS didn't give a rat's ass about Stamina Sorcs, because if they did, they would have give Ward a Stamina morph! Instead, only Magicka Sorcs were left with a decent size shield. Which brings us to today and THIS thread...

I don't know if you've noticed, but Bolt Escape isn't the only thing getting nerfed in Update 1.7/2.1. Blocking and Dodging are ALSO getting horrible nerfs! You know, those two mechanics that Stamina builds use to mitigate or avoid damage? It turns out that Stamina builds ARE going to have to eat full damage from time to time. Wouldn't it be nice if Stamina Sorcs had a big ass WARD to eat that damage for them?

But, no, you don't care about all that, you just want that gimmicky Crystal Frag proc, LOL. And you say I don't understand...

He's accusing you of beating a dead horse either ? He tried the same with me.
I wouldn't worry too much if I was you, you're right with your arguments.

"Nightblades and Cloak are OP" spam and "Sorcerer's shouldn't be able to play as a Stamina build"? Yeah, you are definitely "special". I have never seen anyone openly, myopically say something like "x class should not be allowed to play as a stamina build." Thanks for that.

Okay

Where did I say this ? I didn't. But I'm used to your wild fantasy, so I don't mind anymore.
I say that Sorcerers selling point should be Magicka, that's it. Each class should perform each roll, but not each class performs equally good in each roll.

Then what's the point of actually having that roll if you don't perform it adequately....and where do you put the percentile of acceptable performance compared to the best class? 90%? 95%?

Seriously what is this argument? Since all classes have stamina versions and were depicted as such by the devs....the devs should strive to perfect each one of these classes at each one of their roles.

Xael · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

"Nightblades and Cloak are OP" spam and "Sorcerer's shouldn't be able to play as a Stamina build"? Yeah, you are definitely "special". I have never seen anyone openly, myopically say something like "x class should not be allowed to play as a stamina build." Thanks for that.

Okay

Where did I say this ? I didn't. But I'm used to your wild fantasy, so I don't mind anymore.
I say that Sorcerers selling point should be Magicka, that's it. Each class should perform each roll, but not each class performs equally good in each roll.

Do I need to comb through the forum and and look at every post? Just be honest man. You are like in every thread, have something like 2000 posts, I am not going to sift through all your stuff. Anytime I or Erock post about Stamina sorc, you show up and drop your nonsense like :

Dracane wrote: »

I say, stop this insanity. This whole stamina Sorc thing is afflicting the Sorcerer community like a tumor since 6 months.
I'm so glad, Zenimax managed to keep the damage low so far by making intelligent tweaks. But the limit is pretty much reached and they can barely make changes without causing damage to what Sorcerer is meant to be, A FREAKING MAGE omg.

Dracane wrote: »

Agreed. Sorcerer is a mage, no Warrior. Sad to see how our own kind totally conquers this class and turns it into a fancy warrior..

I have seen both you and another dude (the guy you were talking to) openly admit you don't think Sorcerers should be able to play as Stamina (as shown in evidence above). So just cut it out. In fact it wasn't until about a week ago or so that you stopped outright opposing it. Now you are being evasive and dishonest.

Dracane · August 2015

Xael wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

"Nightblades and Cloak are OP" spam and "Sorcerer's shouldn't be able to play as a Stamina build"? Yeah, you are definitely "special". I have never seen anyone openly, myopically say something like "x class should not be allowed to play as a stamina build." Thanks for that.

Okay

Where did I say this ? I didn't. But I'm used to your wild fantasy, so I don't mind anymore.
I say that Sorcerers selling point should be Magicka, that's it. Each class should perform each roll, but not each class performs equally good in each roll.

Do I need to comb through the forum and and look at every post? Just be honest man. You are like in every thread, have something like 2000 posts, I am not going to sift through all your stuff. Anytime I or Erock post about Stamina sorc, you show up and drop your nonsense like :

Dracane wrote: »

I say, stop this insanity. This whole stamina Sorc thing is afflicting the Sorcerer community like a tumor since 6 months.
I'm so glad, Zenimax managed to keep the damage low so far by making intelligent tweaks. But the limit is pretty much reached and they can barely make changes without causing damage to what Sorcerer is meant to be, A FREAKING MAGE omg.

Dracane wrote: »

Agreed. Sorcerer is a mage, no Warrior. Sad to see how our own kind totally conquers this class and turns it into a fancy warrior..

I have seen both you and another dude (the guy you were talking to) openly admit you don't think Sorcerers should be able to play as Stamina (as shown in evidence above). So just cut it out. In fact it wasn't until about a week ago or so that you stopped outright opposing it. Now you are being evasive and dishonest.

Because it's true

It's not that Sorcerers shouldn't have Stamina options. I'm just worried, that this class turns into a warrior more and more. I choosed this class 2 years ago, because it was a spellcaster and had no warrior-like behavior unlike the other 3 classes. My worry might be totally unjustified, but I felt like saying it anyway.

Mojmir · August 2015

think im gonna build a sorc tank now, this *** is for real

Emma_Overload · August 2015

Xael wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Survivability is fine. I have weeks of PvP across various different Stamina Sorcs on PTS v2.1. We need more options for damage. Again, we are still a class neutral weapon with the option of skill bloat to make use of passives that barely change anything.

I keep seeing a PvE self proclaimed carebear Magicka Sorc recommending shields, you don't even play a stam sorc, let alone pvp with one. With Rally/Vigor, Boundless Storm, and Shuffle (or Efficient Purge) I have plenty of Survivability. Please stop beating the dead horse regarding something you don't understand. If I were to connect the dots this is your way of shifting the spotlight off Crystal Blast seeing you are the only person showing up consistently in every thread about Stam Sorcs defending the ability and proposing some strange paradigm related to a facet of gameplay you have nothing to do with in the first place.

All these proposed changes are way too much and will not happen. First it's too much work, second it's way too many changes other classes don't even have the luxury of.

Again, coming from someone that PvPs regularly on a Stamina Sorc (in the current v2.1 meta) all we need is Stamina morph of Crystal Blast that mirrors the Frag morph. This will also make use of the Dark Magic passives, something most Stam Sorc lack.

Crystal Blast:
(Crystal Blast Rank IV)
Cost - 2268 Stamina | Cast Time - 1s | Radius/Range 28m range (Enemy)
Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing [x] Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.

Casting other spells & abilities has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Fragments to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.

Chance to make ability instant cast.

Now scales off Weapon Damage and Max Stamina.

Also a redesign to the Exploitation passive:
Rank I
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 10 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 39

Rank II
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 20 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 50

Problem solved, Stam Sorcs now awesome.

Since I assume your insulting comment was directed at me, I'm going to respond to it.

"I keep seeing a PvE self proclaimed carebear Magicka Sorc recommending shields, you don't even play a stam sorc, let alone pvp with one... Please stop beating the dead horse regarding something you don't understand."

The reason I rarely build my Sorc for Stamina is because StamSorc is weak as f*** and can't do half the things a Magicka Sorc can, but I do experiment from time to time. I would LOVE to play a Stamina build, but what is the point if the basic Sorc survivability skills are so heavily gimped? Surge Healing is OK against single targets, but it fails bigtime when there are multiple enemies hitting you hard. Hardened Ward scales off Magicka, so it sucks for Stamina builds. The Clannfear costs plenty of Magicka to summon, only around half of which is returned when it dies, so I don't see Stamina builds constantly re-summoning to out-heal damage. Bolt Escape is already being nerfed into a "luxury" spell for Magicka Sorcs, I don't expect to see Stamina Sorcs using it much at all.

I think it's funny you talk about "something you don't understand" when it is clearly YOU who have the extremely narrow view of the issues facing Stamina Sorcs, I'm guessing because you are a PvP-centric player who is clueless about the much larger game being played outside of Cyrodiil. Let me make it simple for you:

There have been TWO eras for Sorcs in relation to survivability. The first era lasted from Launch until Update 1.6, and during this time it was expected that Sorcs, both Magicka and Stamina, would depend on Critical Surge as a self-healing mechanic. BTW, you can go to any theory-crafting forum such as Tamriel Foundry and find builds posted during that era that describe Surge as our most important, class-defining skill.

Then came the second era, when Surge was nerfed by Update 1.6, but Conjured Ward was buffed as compensation. It quickly became clear, even when 1.6 was still on the PTS, that ZOS expected Sorcs to use this Ward as their main "heal", even though technically it's not a real heal. This is ALSO when it became apparent that ZOS didn't give a rat's ass about Stamina Sorcs, because if they did, they would have give Ward a Stamina morph! Instead, only Magicka Sorcs were left with a decent size shield. Which brings us to today and THIS thread...

I don't know if you've noticed, but Bolt Escape isn't the only thing getting nerfed in Update 1.7/2.1. Blocking and Dodging are ALSO getting horrible nerfs! You know, those two mechanics that Stamina builds use to mitigate or avoid damage? It turns out that Stamina builds ARE going to have to eat full damage from time to time. Wouldn't it be nice if Stamina Sorcs had a big ass WARD to eat that damage for them?

But, no, you don't care about all that, you just want that gimmicky Crystal Frag proc, LOL. And you say I don't understand...

First off, you were not insulted, unless standing in front of a mirror is an insult? I did not insult and I ask you to retract that.
You claim (your words) to be a "carebear." You are a magicka Sorc. You don't PvP, you don't PvP as a Stamina Sorc. You don't even play a Stamina Sorc.

Now, all I did was point that out, that is not an insult. If this is insulting then I am the new king of Spain. Guess what? I don't even speak Spanish, they're screwed.

Next, you tell me Stam Sorcs are "weak as ***." How would you know? You don't play one, let alone pvp with one. I do quite well with my Stamina Sorc, so does Fengrush. I can't speak for Erock because I have not had the pleasure of playing with him yet. Hell I even rolled a brand new Stam Sorc on live DC. If they suck so much why would I do that?

So let's dissect your claims. Rally and Vigor keep me healed up. I also have Boundless Storm. I take less damage than Templars and Nightblades, not sure why I need more survivability, but I will gladly take it, maybe I can be unkillable... You provide some hypothesis with a clannfear and mobs hitting you... wtf is this silliness? IF you are stamina, you have weapon skill lines like 2h which have Brawler (gives you a damage bubble and cone aoe), and you have Shuffle and 1hS abilities... You also have Lightning Form, Rally, Vigor, Crit Surge, etc. Just stop.

How is it I "have the extremely narrow view of the issues facing Stamina Sorcs" when I am the only one of us playing one? Let alone PvPing with it. Explain that please. You have no objective information to offer when you don't play a class or pvp on said class that you posture about. All your pontificating is pointless and either based on speculation or hearsay from the forums or game chat.

I find it strange you wish to direct me to eras and leave out major issues. First of all, I was a big contributor to Tamriel Foundry Sorc stuff, maybe YOU should go back and look. Second I was alive and kicking hard as hell during those "Eras." PvE until Craglorn was a joke. You could do any delve or content with the most worthless of builds and skate by. Thanks for leave that out. CC did not have immunity built in. You left that out as well. Why? Oh wait, you don't have a leg to stand on. Let's look further... Without CC immunity built in, you could endlessly knockback World Bosses/Elites with abilities like Magnum Shot, Frags, Wrecking Blow, etc. All of these used by STAMINA SOCERERS... omg? Thanks for conveniently leaving that out. Crit Surge was nice, but we still had Rally and Resto abilities. Not sure about you, but I was softcapped in my stats so healing was Resto was commonplace for people with balanced stats no matter Stam or Magicka. Newsflash, most people put all their attribute points into Health and staves scaled off Stamina and Weapon Damage/Power.

I really don't care about Conjured Ward. I didn't then, I don't now. As a Stamina Sorc it's irrelevant, even for PvE endgame. I guess you never heard of raiding where people in the raid give buffs/heals to people. I guess you also still have yet to discover Lightning Form provides you with Major Resolve and Major Ward, Bound Armor gives Minor Resolve, Combat Prayer gives Minor Ward/Resolve and Berserk to boot. Strange eh? That alone is a crazy amount of mitigation. In raids you have healers providing these buffs and as a Sorc you have your own buffs already as either Stam or Magicka, that said your response is meaningless.

You mention block and dodge nerfs as if I don't pvp... I think I am well aware of the limit of dodge rolling and blocking. Again, I have Boundless Storm. I don't take a lot of damage and I survive very well with Rally and Vigor ticking alongside my Shuffle/Boundless. I also have Efficient Purge (if I need it). Maybe you should read the tooltips on these abilities and learn what they mean. Stop projecting hypothesis onto me, I play the build and I pvp with it. I don't need someone pushing their opinion on me when they themselves don't even play the class/build or PvP.

You are right, I do say you don't understand. I am not alone in this. The issue for the longest time has been that Stamina Sorcs are class neutral weapon specs, it still stands today on PTS. You go to great lengths to defend and save your horrible morph, your response doesn't surprise me.

I don't care about the Crystal morph nearly as much as I do about the lack of a Ward morph. Just for the sake of argument... you can HAVE it! Have your stamina "Crystal Punch" and then see what has changed. Nothing! Maybe in PvP, which I know little about and care even less, this might have some niche use. But you know what I DO know about PvP? The forum is FULL of guys whining about "shield stacking". You know why? Because shields actually ****ing WORK. They keep you alive. It's that simple.

You also seemed to have skimmed over my statement "The reason I rarely build my Sorc for Stamina is because StamSorc is weak as f*** and can't do half the things a Magicka Sorc can, but I do experiment from time to time" and missed the last part. Just because I don't play a Stamina Sorc all the time doesn't mean I don't understand the issues such a build faces in MY area of interest, which is PvE. Just today I went on the PTS and tested a Bosmer Stam Sorc for a couple hours using the template equipment (DW, 2H, and Bow), and guess what? Stam Sorcs are still screwed for hardcore PvE. There have been a number of improvements but it's still not enough. A Stam Sorc is not going to be able to do stuff like solo the 4-man Pledge dungeons, which I do all the time with a Magicka Sorc. It might be possible with 3600 CP, but not with 300.

The major issue is this: What is a Stamina Sorc going to do about a constant drain of incoming damage of 10K per second when he's overrun by a a bunch of mobs? What about bosses who hit you with an ublockable, unbreakable CC and then hit you for 20K? Magicka Sorcs can handle these problems with a big fat Ward, among other things. The fact that you even mention something as WEAK as Vigor in your rant shows me you don't understand the game outside Cyrodiil. Stam Sorcs can't outheal the highest damage mobs, not with Vigor or Rally or Resto Staff or whatever. Thanks to nerfs that were begged for by PvP whiners, you will soon not be able to perma-block and "tank" your way through the toughest encounters, simply because you'll run out of stamina and die. For the same reason, dodge-rolling isn't going to save your ass, either, after 1.7 hits the Live server.

CP5 · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

"Nightblades and Cloak are OP" spam and "Sorcerer's shouldn't be able to play as a Stamina build"? Yeah, you are definitely "special". I have never seen anyone openly, myopically say something like "x class should not be allowed to play as a stamina build." Thanks for that.

Okay

Where did I say this ? I didn't. But I'm used to your wild fantasy, so I don't mind anymore.
I say that Sorcerers selling point should be Magicka, that's it. Each class should perform each roll, but not each class performs equally good in each roll.

Do I need to comb through the forum and and look at every post? Just be honest man. You are like in every thread, have something like 2000 posts, I am not going to sift through all your stuff. Anytime I or Erock post about Stamina sorc, you show up and drop your nonsense like :

Dracane wrote: »

I say, stop this insanity. This whole stamina Sorc thing is afflicting the Sorcerer community like a tumor since 6 months.
I'm so glad, Zenimax managed to keep the damage low so far by making intelligent tweaks. But the limit is pretty much reached and they can barely make changes without causing damage to what Sorcerer is meant to be, A FREAKING MAGE omg.

Dracane wrote: »

Agreed. Sorcerer is a mage, no Warrior. Sad to see how our own kind totally conquers this class and turns it into a fancy warrior..

I have seen both you and another dude (the guy you were talking to) openly admit you don't think Sorcerers should be able to play as Stamina (as shown in evidence above). So just cut it out. In fact it wasn't until about a week ago or so that you stopped outright opposing it. Now you are being evasive and dishonest.

Because it's true It's not that Sorcerers shouldn't have Stamina options. I'm just worried, that this class turns into a warrior more and more. I choosed this class 2 years ago, because it was a spellcaster and had no warrior-like behavior unlike the other 3 classes. My worry might be totally unjustified, but I felt like saying it anyway.

I hope I speak for more stamina sorc's out there when I say this, but with this being the case shouldn't we focus more on discussing ideas on how to improve the class that we can mostly agree with as opposed to shouting down ideas? I chose the class because I planed on using a bow and being a stamina build, and I saw useful skills in all trees that could support my intended play style.

With how heavily the classes skills and passives only support magicka builds what wouldn't be the end of the world if changed to allow the class to do something different? I get that ZOS's record isn't the brightest in their balance changes, but if we get to a good common ground with luck the combat team will take notice. All they have to look at now is how much we in-fight.

TheBonesXXX · August 2015

Crystal Punch, just make that thing a bloody stam gap closer with the AoE.

*drools*

Zsymon · August 2015

Imo the only change that is really necessary for now, is making pets scale off your highest resource. This would make stamina PVE builds a lot better.

Mojmir · August 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

Imo the only change that is really necessary for now, is making pets scale off your highest resource. This would make stamina PVE builds a lot better.

instead of a pet, we can have a spotter, ill name mine "UevenLiftBro?"

im all for stamina sorcs, but pets is just too much. hell the things dont even belong in the class IMO. theyre sorcs not conjurers. if you wants pets,they should be familiars. let them grant buffs not do your tanking for you.

kkampaseb17_ESO · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

"Nightblades and Cloak are OP" spam and "Sorcerer's shouldn't be able to play as a Stamina build"? Yeah, you are definitely "special". I have never seen anyone openly, myopically say something like "x class should not be allowed to play as a stamina build." Thanks for that.

Okay

Where did I say this ? I didn't. But I'm used to your wild fantasy, so I don't mind anymore.
I say that Sorcerers selling point should be Magicka, that's it. Each class should perform each roll, but not each class performs equally good in each roll.

Do I need to comb through the forum and and look at every post? Just be honest man. You are like in every thread, have something like 2000 posts, I am not going to sift through all your stuff. Anytime I or Erock post about Stamina sorc, you show up and drop your nonsense like :

Dracane wrote: »

I say, stop this insanity. This whole stamina Sorc thing is afflicting the Sorcerer community like a tumor since 6 months.
I'm so glad, Zenimax managed to keep the damage low so far by making intelligent tweaks. But the limit is pretty much reached and they can barely make changes without causing damage to what Sorcerer is meant to be, A FREAKING MAGE omg.

Dracane wrote: »

Agreed. Sorcerer is a mage, no Warrior. Sad to see how our own kind totally conquers this class and turns it into a fancy warrior..

I have seen both you and another dude (the guy you were talking to) openly admit you don't think Sorcerers should be able to play as Stamina (as shown in evidence above). So just cut it out. In fact it wasn't until about a week ago or so that you stopped outright opposing it. Now you are being evasive and dishonest.

Because it's true It's not that Sorcerers shouldn't have Stamina options. I'm just worried, that this class turns into a warrior more and more. I choosed this class 2 years ago, because it was a spellcaster and had no warrior-like behavior unlike the other 3 classes. My worry might be totally unjustified, but I felt like saying it anyway.

This shouldn't be a reason why you shut down some very good ideas that are proposed here. This shows a very very polarized bias due to your worry. Sorry to say this but it has no place here. I worry for plenty of stuff but I don't run to each thread and post on things in order to calm down my worries.

Mojmir · August 2015

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

"Nightblades and Cloak are OP" spam and "Sorcerer's shouldn't be able to play as a Stamina build"? Yeah, you are definitely "special". I have never seen anyone openly, myopically say something like "x class should not be allowed to play as a stamina build." Thanks for that.

Okay

Where did I say this ? I didn't. But I'm used to your wild fantasy, so I don't mind anymore.
I say that Sorcerers selling point should be Magicka, that's it. Each class should perform each roll, but not each class performs equally good in each roll.

Do I need to comb through the forum and and look at every post? Just be honest man. You are like in every thread, have something like 2000 posts, I am not going to sift through all your stuff. Anytime I or Erock post about Stamina sorc, you show up and drop your nonsense like :

Dracane wrote: »

I say, stop this insanity. This whole stamina Sorc thing is afflicting the Sorcerer community like a tumor since 6 months.
I'm so glad, Zenimax managed to keep the damage low so far by making intelligent tweaks. But the limit is pretty much reached and they can barely make changes without causing damage to what Sorcerer is meant to be, A FREAKING MAGE omg.

Dracane wrote: »

Agreed. Sorcerer is a mage, no Warrior. Sad to see how our own kind totally conquers this class and turns it into a fancy warrior..

I have seen both you and another dude (the guy you were talking to) openly admit you don't think Sorcerers should be able to play as Stamina (as shown in evidence above). So just cut it out. In fact it wasn't until about a week ago or so that you stopped outright opposing it. Now you are being evasive and dishonest.

Because it's true It's not that Sorcerers shouldn't have Stamina options. I'm just worried, that this class turns into a warrior more and more. I choosed this class 2 years ago, because it was a spellcaster and had no warrior-like behavior unlike the other 3 classes. My worry might be totally unjustified, but I felt like saying it anyway.

This shouldn't be a reason why you shut down some very good ideas that are proposed here. This shows a very very polarized bias due to your worry. Sorry to say this but it has no place here. I worry for plenty of stuff but I don't run to each thread and post on things in order to calm down my worries.

i see the class having so much potential, unfortunatley its a mash up of 2-3 different classes thrown together and lacks direction. on one hand you have pets, doesnt even fit the theme of a electro wielding dynamo, aside from the storm atronauch which is gimmicky at best. if its a storm/lightning theme theyre after, its needs some "air power". might be OP but the bound axes the AA mage uses fit this class, thats a stamina ability if i ever saw one. how about smashing your weapon into the ground for "rolling thunder" as a stun for aoe?

Mojmir · August 2015

Mojmir wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

"Nightblades and Cloak are OP" spam and "Sorcerer's shouldn't be able to play as a Stamina build"? Yeah, you are definitely "special". I have never seen anyone openly, myopically say something like "x class should not be allowed to play as a stamina build." Thanks for that.

Okay

Where did I say this ? I didn't. But I'm used to your wild fantasy, so I don't mind anymore.
I say that Sorcerers selling point should be Magicka, that's it. Each class should perform each roll, but not each class performs equally good in each roll.

Do I need to comb through the forum and and look at every post? Just be honest man. You are like in every thread, have something like 2000 posts, I am not going to sift through all your stuff. Anytime I or Erock post about Stamina sorc, you show up and drop your nonsense like :

Dracane wrote: »

I say, stop this insanity. This whole stamina Sorc thing is afflicting the Sorcerer community like a tumor since 6 months.
I'm so glad, Zenimax managed to keep the damage low so far by making intelligent tweaks. But the limit is pretty much reached and they can barely make changes without causing damage to what Sorcerer is meant to be, A FREAKING MAGE omg.

Dracane wrote: »

Agreed. Sorcerer is a mage, no Warrior. Sad to see how our own kind totally conquers this class and turns it into a fancy warrior..

I have seen both you and another dude (the guy you were talking to) openly admit you don't think Sorcerers should be able to play as Stamina (as shown in evidence above). So just cut it out. In fact it wasn't until about a week ago or so that you stopped outright opposing it. Now you are being evasive and dishonest.

Because it's true It's not that Sorcerers shouldn't have Stamina options. I'm just worried, that this class turns into a warrior more and more. I choosed this class 2 years ago, because it was a spellcaster and had no warrior-like behavior unlike the other 3 classes. My worry might be totally unjustified, but I felt like saying it anyway.

This shouldn't be a reason why you shut down some very good ideas that are proposed here. This shows a very very polarized bias due to your worry. Sorry to say this but it has no place here. I worry for plenty of stuff but I don't run to each thread and post on things in order to calm down my worries.

i see the class having so much potential, unfortunatley its a mash up of 2-3 different classes thrown together and lacks direction. on one hand you have pets, doesnt even fit the theme of a electro wielding dynamo, aside from the storm atronauch which is gimmicky at best. if its a storm/lightning theme theyre after, its needs some "air power". might be OP but the bound axes the AA mage uses fit this class, thats a stamina ability if i ever saw one. how about smashing your weapon into the ground for "rolling thunder" as a stun for aoe?

if you have doubts a sorcerer could ever be a warrior, look at thor,zeus neither of these guys look like gandalf or ming the merciless.

Jar_Ek · August 2015

Tbh guys I think we have to keep to relatively simple changes rather than out right rebuilding the class from scratch (although that would be an interesting exercise).

Thus far the main suggestions are (and tbh have always been from 1.6):
1. Provide a direct damage instant ability either via a morph of crystal shards being the same as frags but for stamina; or through a stamina morph of mages fury that is instant and has decent damage (details on both can be found above)
2. Enable one morph of conjured ward to scale off health rather than magicka (empowered).
3. Summoned pets to scale with stamina or magicka.
4. Make surge work with DoTs in a nice way or at least with channels (ie flurry)
5. Make one morph of daedric mines scale of stamina.

And just for reference...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197466/stamina-sorcerer-changes-a-plea#latest

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/167102/sorcerer-skilltrees-a-re-imagining/p1

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153309/critique-of-current-sorcerer-skill-trees#latest

which ought to show some of the evolution in thinking.

Erock25 · August 2015

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Tbh guys I think we have to keep to relatively simple changes rather than out right rebuilding the class from scratch (although that would be an interesting exercise).

Thus far the main suggestions are (and tbh have always been from 1.6):
1. Provide a direct damage instant ability either via a morph of crystal shards being the same as frags but for stamina; or through a stamina morph of mages fury that is instant and has decent damage (details on both can be found above)
2. Enable one morph of conjured ward to scale off health rather than magicka (empowered).
3. Summoned pets to scale with stamina or magicka.
4. Make surge work with DoTs in a nice way or at least with channels (ie flurry)
5. Make one morph of daedric mines scale of stamina.

And just for reference...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197466/stamina-sorcerer-changes-a-plea#latest

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/167102/sorcerer-skilltrees-a-re-imagining/p1

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153309/critique-of-current-sorcerer-skill-trees#latest

which ought to show some of the evolution in thinking.

This is a great and concise list, but I also think we should add a 6 which is make also increase weapon crit on Exploitation passive which is really just a no brainer as you would rarely if ever benefit from both weapon and spell crit at the same time. I think 4 is an absolute must, at least the flurry part. Then, I think 1 and 2 should happen. Crystal Blast being stam version of Frags is awesome because it gives the chance at an instant cast ability without giving us a spammable dps skill (which devs seem to want to avoid) while also giving us the meager Blood Magic heals. Empowered Ward should also change to scaling with health to give us another skill besides Bound Armaments to slot for the Daedric Protection passive while also giving stam sorcs some more defensive tools. The shield should be around 6k to 10k (in PVP) with 20k to 30k health.

Dracane · August 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Tbh guys I think we have to keep to relatively simple changes rather than out right rebuilding the class from scratch (although that would be an interesting exercise).

Thus far the main suggestions are (and tbh have always been from 1.6):
1. Provide a direct damage instant ability either via a morph of crystal shards being the same as frags but for stamina; or through a stamina morph of mages fury that is instant and has decent damage (details on both can be found above)
2. Enable one morph of conjured ward to scale off health rather than magicka (empowered).
3. Summoned pets to scale with stamina or magicka.
4. Make surge work with DoTs in a nice way or at least with channels (ie flurry)
5. Make one morph of daedric mines scale of stamina.

And just for reference...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197466/stamina-sorcerer-changes-a-plea#latest

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/167102/sorcerer-skilltrees-a-re-imagining/p1

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153309/critique-of-current-sorcerer-skill-trees#latest

which ought to show some of the evolution in thinking.

This is a great and concise list, but I also think we should add a 6 which is make also increase weapon crit on Exploitation passive which is really just a no brainer as you would rarely if ever benefit from both weapon and spell crit at the same time. I think 4 is an absolute must, at least the flurry part. Then, I think 1 and 2 should happen. Crystal Blast being stam version of Frags is awesome because it gives the chance at an instant cast ability without giving us a spammable dps skill (which devs seem to want to avoid) while also giving us the meager Blood Magic heals. Empowered Ward should also change to scaling with health to give us another skill besides Bound Armaments to slot for the Daedric Protection passive while also giving stam sorcs some more defensive tools. The shield should be around 6k to 10k (in PVP) with 20k to 30k health.

I think they should also change the amount of resistance the minor armor and spell resistance buff is giving to make the defensive aspect of bound armor more appealing. Minor fracture is over 2000 penetration, I think minor armor buffs should grant the same amount of resistance.

You're summoning a fat armor O.o and it only reduces damage by ~1% . Also, the minor spell resistance bonus to Bound Aegis is pretty lame. Why isn't this included in the base version of bound armor ? Bound Armaments should get this as well and Bound Aegis should get a Minor heal buff to help Sorcerer healers.

Cathexis · August 2015

Mojmir wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

"Nightblades and Cloak are OP" spam and "Sorcerer's shouldn't be able to play as a Stamina build"? Yeah, you are definitely "special". I have never seen anyone openly, myopically say something like "x class should not be allowed to play as a stamina build." Thanks for that.

Okay

Where did I say this ? I didn't. But I'm used to your wild fantasy, so I don't mind anymore.
I say that Sorcerers selling point should be Magicka, that's it. Each class should perform each roll, but not each class performs equally good in each roll.

Do I need to comb through the forum and and look at every post? Just be honest man. You are like in every thread, have something like 2000 posts, I am not going to sift through all your stuff. Anytime I or Erock post about Stamina sorc, you show up and drop your nonsense like :

Dracane wrote: »

I say, stop this insanity. This whole stamina Sorc thing is afflicting the Sorcerer community like a tumor since 6 months.
I'm so glad, Zenimax managed to keep the damage low so far by making intelligent tweaks. But the limit is pretty much reached and they can barely make changes without causing damage to what Sorcerer is meant to be, A FREAKING MAGE omg.

Dracane wrote: »

Agreed. Sorcerer is a mage, no Warrior. Sad to see how our own kind totally conquers this class and turns it into a fancy warrior..

I have seen both you and another dude (the guy you were talking to) openly admit you don't think Sorcerers should be able to play as Stamina (as shown in evidence above). So just cut it out. In fact it wasn't until about a week ago or so that you stopped outright opposing it. Now you are being evasive and dishonest.

Because it's true It's not that Sorcerers shouldn't have Stamina options. I'm just worried, that this class turns into a warrior more and more. I choosed this class 2 years ago, because it was a spellcaster and had no warrior-like behavior unlike the other 3 classes. My worry might be totally unjustified, but I felt like saying it anyway.

This shouldn't be a reason why you shut down some very good ideas that are proposed here. This shows a very very polarized bias due to your worry. Sorry to say this but it has no place here. I worry for plenty of stuff but I don't run to each thread and post on things in order to calm down my worries.

i see the class having so much potential, unfortunatley its a mash up of 2-3 different classes thrown together and lacks direction. on one hand you have pets, doesnt even fit the theme of a electro wielding dynamo, aside from the storm atronauch which is gimmicky at best. if its a storm/lightning theme theyre after, its needs some "air power". might be OP but the bound axes the AA mage uses fit this class, thats a stamina ability if i ever saw one. how about smashing your weapon into the ground for "rolling thunder" as a stun for aoe?

https://youtu.be/V4UfAL9f74I

Cathexis · August 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Tbh guys I think we have to keep to relatively simple changes rather than out right rebuilding the class from scratch (although that would be an interesting exercise).

Thus far the main suggestions are (and tbh have always been from 1.6):
1. Provide a direct damage instant ability either via a morph of crystal shards being the same as frags but for stamina; or through a stamina morph of mages fury that is instant and has decent damage (details on both can be found above)
2. Enable one morph of conjured ward to scale off health rather than magicka (empowered).
3. Summoned pets to scale with stamina or magicka.
4. Make surge work with DoTs in a nice way or at least with channels (ie flurry)
5. Make one morph of daedric mines scale of stamina.

And just for reference...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197466/stamina-sorcerer-changes-a-plea#latest

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/167102/sorcerer-skilltrees-a-re-imagining/p1

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153309/critique-of-current-sorcerer-skill-trees#latest

which ought to show some of the evolution in thinking.

This is a great and concise list, but I also think we should add a 6 which is make also increase weapon crit on Exploitation passive which is really just a no brainer as you would rarely if ever benefit from both weapon and spell crit at the same time. I think 4 is an absolute must, at least the flurry part. Then, I think 1 and 2 should happen. Crystal Blast being stam version of Frags is awesome because it gives the chance at an instant cast ability without giving us a spammable dps skill (which devs seem to want to avoid) while also giving us the meager Blood Magic heals. Empowered Ward should also change to scaling with health to give us another skill besides Bound Armaments to slot for the Daedric Protection passive while also giving stam sorcs some more defensive tools. The shield should be around 6k to 10k (in PVP) with 20k to 30k health.

I have to say that empowered ward scaling with health, while bringing it in Line with other shields, still makes it relatively useless. If all your points are in stam, how is scaling with health any better than magicka? It might be a little useful if shields weren't bugged so that surplus damage is unmitigated. Add on top of that the new ceitable shield reforms, I just don't see why asking for a stamina based shield would be unreasonable for a class spec that is typically a close range fighter (with the exception of snipe builds)

Is the shield bug being fixed?

Mojmir · August 2015

Cathexis wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

"Nightblades and Cloak are OP" spam and "Sorcerer's shouldn't be able to play as a Stamina build"? Yeah, you are definitely "special". I have never seen anyone openly, myopically say something like "x class should not be allowed to play as a stamina build." Thanks for that.

Okay

Where did I say this ? I didn't. But I'm used to your wild fantasy, so I don't mind anymore.
I say that Sorcerers selling point should be Magicka, that's it. Each class should perform each roll, but not each class performs equally good in each roll.

Do I need to comb through the forum and and look at every post? Just be honest man. You are like in every thread, have something like 2000 posts, I am not going to sift through all your stuff. Anytime I or Erock post about Stamina sorc, you show up and drop your nonsense like :

Dracane wrote: »

I say, stop this insanity. This whole stamina Sorc thing is afflicting the Sorcerer community like a tumor since 6 months.
I'm so glad, Zenimax managed to keep the damage low so far by making intelligent tweaks. But the limit is pretty much reached and they can barely make changes without causing damage to what Sorcerer is meant to be, A FREAKING MAGE omg.

Dracane wrote: »

Agreed. Sorcerer is a mage, no Warrior. Sad to see how our own kind totally conquers this class and turns it into a fancy warrior..

I have seen both you and another dude (the guy you were talking to) openly admit you don't think Sorcerers should be able to play as Stamina (as shown in evidence above). So just cut it out. In fact it wasn't until about a week ago or so that you stopped outright opposing it. Now you are being evasive and dishonest.

Because it's true It's not that Sorcerers shouldn't have Stamina options. I'm just worried, that this class turns into a warrior more and more. I choosed this class 2 years ago, because it was a spellcaster and had no warrior-like behavior unlike the other 3 classes. My worry might be totally unjustified, but I felt like saying it anyway.

This shouldn't be a reason why you shut down some very good ideas that are proposed here. This shows a very very polarized bias due to your worry. Sorry to say this but it has no place here. I worry for plenty of stuff but I don't run to each thread and post on things in order to calm down my worries.

i see the class having so much potential, unfortunatley its a mash up of 2-3 different classes thrown together and lacks direction. on one hand you have pets, doesnt even fit the theme of a electro wielding dynamo, aside from the storm atronauch which is gimmicky at best. if its a storm/lightning theme theyre after, its needs some "air power". might be OP but the bound axes the AA mage uses fit this class, thats a stamina ability if i ever saw one. how about smashing your weapon into the ground for "rolling thunder" as a stun for aoe?

https://youtu.be/V4UfAL9f74I

i was waiting for that "DK" to dragon leap up outta the abyss and whip him again lol

Cathexis · August 2015

Mojmir wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

"Nightblades and Cloak are OP" spam and "Sorcerer's shouldn't be able to play as a Stamina build"? Yeah, you are definitely "special". I have never seen anyone openly, myopically say something like "x class should not be allowed to play as a stamina build." Thanks for that.

Okay

Where did I say this ? I didn't. But I'm used to your wild fantasy, so I don't mind anymore.
I say that Sorcerers selling point should be Magicka, that's it. Each class should perform each roll, but not each class performs equally good in each roll.

Do I need to comb through the forum and and look at every post? Just be honest man. You are like in every thread, have something like 2000 posts, I am not going to sift through all your stuff. Anytime I or Erock post about Stamina sorc, you show up and drop your nonsense like :

Dracane wrote: »

I say, stop this insanity. This whole stamina Sorc thing is afflicting the Sorcerer community like a tumor since 6 months.
I'm so glad, Zenimax managed to keep the damage low so far by making intelligent tweaks. But the limit is pretty much reached and they can barely make changes without causing damage to what Sorcerer is meant to be, A FREAKING MAGE omg.

Dracane wrote: »

Agreed. Sorcerer is a mage, no Warrior. Sad to see how our own kind totally conquers this class and turns it into a fancy warrior..

I have seen both you and another dude (the guy you were talking to) openly admit you don't think Sorcerers should be able to play as Stamina (as shown in evidence above). So just cut it out. In fact it wasn't until about a week ago or so that you stopped outright opposing it. Now you are being evasive and dishonest.

Because it's true It's not that Sorcerers shouldn't have Stamina options. I'm just worried, that this class turns into a warrior more and more. I choosed this class 2 years ago, because it was a spellcaster and had no warrior-like behavior unlike the other 3 classes. My worry might be totally unjustified, but I felt like saying it anyway.

This shouldn't be a reason why you shut down some very good ideas that are proposed here. This shows a very very polarized bias due to your worry. Sorry to say this but it has no place here. I worry for plenty of stuff but I don't run to each thread and post on things in order to calm down my worries.

i see the class having so much potential, unfortunatley its a mash up of 2-3 different classes thrown together and lacks direction. on one hand you have pets, doesnt even fit the theme of a electro wielding dynamo, aside from the storm atronauch which is gimmicky at best. if its a storm/lightning theme theyre after, its needs some "air power". might be OP but the bound axes the AA mage uses fit this class, thats a stamina ability if i ever saw one. how about smashing your weapon into the ground for "rolling thunder" as a stun for aoe?

https://youtu.be/V4UfAL9f74I

i was waiting for that "DK" to dragon leap up outta the abyss and whip him again lol

Hey now let's remember gandalf not only wins that fight, he gets a respec.

Erock25 · August 2015

Cathexis wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Tbh guys I think we have to keep to relatively simple changes rather than out right rebuilding the class from scratch (although that would be an interesting exercise).

Thus far the main suggestions are (and tbh have always been from 1.6):
1. Provide a direct damage instant ability either via a morph of crystal shards being the same as frags but for stamina; or through a stamina morph of mages fury that is instant and has decent damage (details on both can be found above)
2. Enable one morph of conjured ward to scale off health rather than magicka (empowered).
3. Summoned pets to scale with stamina or magicka.
4. Make surge work with DoTs in a nice way or at least with channels (ie flurry)
5. Make one morph of daedric mines scale of stamina.

And just for reference...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197466/stamina-sorcerer-changes-a-plea#latest

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/167102/sorcerer-skilltrees-a-re-imagining/p1

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153309/critique-of-current-sorcerer-skill-trees#latest

which ought to show some of the evolution in thinking.

This is a great and concise list, but I also think we should add a 6 which is make also increase weapon crit on Exploitation passive which is really just a no brainer as you would rarely if ever benefit from both weapon and spell crit at the same time. I think 4 is an absolute must, at least the flurry part. Then, I think 1 and 2 should happen. Crystal Blast being stam version of Frags is awesome because it gives the chance at an instant cast ability without giving us a spammable dps skill (which devs seem to want to avoid) while also giving us the meager Blood Magic heals. Empowered Ward should also change to scaling with health to give us another skill besides Bound Armaments to slot for the Daedric Protection passive while also giving stam sorcs some more defensive tools. The shield should be around 6k to 10k (in PVP) with 20k to 30k health.

I have to say that empowered ward scaling with health, while bringing it in Line with other shields, still makes it relatively useless. If all your points are in stam, how is scaling with health any better than magicka? It might be a little useful if shields weren't bugged so that surplus damage is unmitigated. Add on top of that the new ceitable shield reforms, I just don't see why asking for a stamina based shield would be unreasonable for a class spec that is typically a close range fighter (with the exception of snipe builds)

Is the shield bug being fixed?

6k shield after PVP debuffs at 20k HP is greater than DK and Temp shields, right? I would of course like them to fix the dmg shield bug where overflow dmg hits unmitigated, but a 6k shield with a 20s duration is pretty nice IMO, especially combined with roll dodges. It is like a single attack buffer and the combination of Empowered Ward canceled with a dodge roll while Vigor and Rally tick away is appealing to me, much more so than using Streak as my magicka dump. Even with the roll dodge and block nerfs, I feel that medium armor users have enough other forms of defense that giving them a stamina scaling shield would be a little out of control. I also would love to tank with a Sorc with 30k+ HP in PVE and PVP.

Cathexis · August 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Tbh guys I think we have to keep to relatively simple changes rather than out right rebuilding the class from scratch (although that would be an interesting exercise).

Thus far the main suggestions are (and tbh have always been from 1.6):
1. Provide a direct damage instant ability either via a morph of crystal shards being the same as frags but for stamina; or through a stamina morph of mages fury that is instant and has decent damage (details on both can be found above)
2. Enable one morph of conjured ward to scale off health rather than magicka (empowered).
3. Summoned pets to scale with stamina or magicka.
4. Make surge work with DoTs in a nice way or at least with channels (ie flurry)
5. Make one morph of daedric mines scale of stamina.

And just for reference...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197466/stamina-sorcerer-changes-a-plea#latest

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/167102/sorcerer-skilltrees-a-re-imagining/p1

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153309/critique-of-current-sorcerer-skill-trees#latest

which ought to show some of the evolution in thinking.

This is a great and concise list, but I also think we should add a 6 which is make also increase weapon crit on Exploitation passive which is really just a no brainer as you would rarely if ever benefit from both weapon and spell crit at the same time. I think 4 is an absolute must, at least the flurry part. Then, I think 1 and 2 should happen. Crystal Blast being stam version of Frags is awesome because it gives the chance at an instant cast ability without giving us a spammable dps skill (which devs seem to want to avoid) while also giving us the meager Blood Magic heals. Empowered Ward should also change to scaling with health to give us another skill besides Bound Armaments to slot for the Daedric Protection passive while also giving stam sorcs some more defensive tools. The shield should be around 6k to 10k (in PVP) with 20k to 30k health.

I have to say that empowered ward scaling with health, while bringing it in Line with other shields, still makes it relatively useless. If all your points are in stam, how is scaling with health any better than magicka? It might be a little useful if shields weren't bugged so that surplus damage is unmitigated. Add on top of that the new ceitable shield reforms, I just don't see why asking for a stamina based shield would be unreasonable for a class spec that is typically a close range fighter (with the exception of snipe builds)

Is the shield bug being fixed?

6k shield after PVP debuffs at 20k HP is greater than DK and Temp shields, right? I would of course like them to fix the dmg shield bug where overflow dmg hits unmitigated, but a 6k shield with a 20s duration is pretty nice IMO, especially combined with roll dodges. It is like a single attack buffer and the combination of Empowered Ward canceled with a dodge roll while Vigor and Rally tick away is appealing to me, much more so than using Streak as my magicka dump. Even with the roll dodge and block nerfs, I feel that medium armor users have enough other forms of defense that giving them a stamina scaling shield would be a little out of control. I also would love to tank with a Sorc with 30k+ HP in PVE and PVP.

I'm not sure what forms of stamina based defense you mean. In my experience bound armor, evasion, and defensive stance are meager at best. I suppose you could count rally and vigor but those abilities dont mitigate damage, they inly compensate after the fact. Off hand I can't think of any other active combat defensive abilities except the new dark deal (which I admit looks promising).

Erock25 · August 2015

Cathexis wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Tbh guys I think we have to keep to relatively simple changes rather than out right rebuilding the class from scratch (although that would be an interesting exercise).

Thus far the main suggestions are (and tbh have always been from 1.6):
1. Provide a direct damage instant ability either via a morph of crystal shards being the same as frags but for stamina; or through a stamina morph of mages fury that is instant and has decent damage (details on both can be found above)
2. Enable one morph of conjured ward to scale off health rather than magicka (empowered).
3. Summoned pets to scale with stamina or magicka.
4. Make surge work with DoTs in a nice way or at least with channels (ie flurry)
5. Make one morph of daedric mines scale of stamina.

And just for reference...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197466/stamina-sorcerer-changes-a-plea#latest

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/167102/sorcerer-skilltrees-a-re-imagining/p1

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153309/critique-of-current-sorcerer-skill-trees#latest

which ought to show some of the evolution in thinking.

This is a great and concise list, but I also think we should add a 6 which is make also increase weapon crit on Exploitation passive which is really just a no brainer as you would rarely if ever benefit from both weapon and spell crit at the same time. I think 4 is an absolute must, at least the flurry part. Then, I think 1 and 2 should happen. Crystal Blast being stam version of Frags is awesome because it gives the chance at an instant cast ability without giving us a spammable dps skill (which devs seem to want to avoid) while also giving us the meager Blood Magic heals. Empowered Ward should also change to scaling with health to give us another skill besides Bound Armaments to slot for the Daedric Protection passive while also giving stam sorcs some more defensive tools. The shield should be around 6k to 10k (in PVP) with 20k to 30k health.

I have to say that empowered ward scaling with health, while bringing it in Line with other shields, still makes it relatively useless. If all your points are in stam, how is scaling with health any better than magicka? It might be a little useful if shields weren't bugged so that surplus damage is unmitigated. Add on top of that the new ceitable shield reforms, I just don't see why asking for a stamina based shield would be unreasonable for a class spec that is typically a close range fighter (with the exception of snipe builds)

Is the shield bug being fixed?

6k shield after PVP debuffs at 20k HP is greater than DK and Temp shields, right? I would of course like them to fix the dmg shield bug where overflow dmg hits unmitigated, but a 6k shield with a 20s duration is pretty nice IMO, especially combined with roll dodges. It is like a single attack buffer and the combination of Empowered Ward canceled with a dodge roll while Vigor and Rally tick away is appealing to me, much more so than using Streak as my magicka dump. Even with the roll dodge and block nerfs, I feel that medium armor users have enough other forms of defense that giving them a stamina scaling shield would be a little out of control. I also would love to tank with a Sorc with 30k+ HP in PVE and PVP.

I'm not sure what forms of stamina based defense you mean.

I mean the ability to roll dodge more often, even after the recent nerf.