WHY no CP CAP yet? The gap creates great imbalance in the game PvP+PvE, more and more quit the game

Forestd16b14_ESO · August 2015

They said there thinking of having one with the catch up mechanic but I for one am not for it cause it will hurt those players in the middle with 200+ CP and not solve the real problem with those with 700+ CP. Cause those high end CP players already have there power and will keep it there till the gap catches up with them months or years down the road.

Dymence · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Well being in Hardcore raid guild EP with an average of 400 CP I do care that AD/DC hardcore raid guilds most have 700+ CP

And please dont tell me I just should go grind...

There are only a few individuals with such high CP, by no means do the hardcore raiding guilds all have this amount of CP.

Some dude just told me 2h ago that he has 780 CP and he has to catch up to his guildies...he said there arent that much with such cp but in his guild there are 8-9 dudes. not gonna tell names tho. believe it or not i dont care.

Well I don't know who you're talking about, but I'm sitting at 335 and most in the group I'm in have similar cp (slightly lower or higher). There are only like 2 people with 800+

Wycks · August 2015

CP is so unbalanced, this this is going to cause major problems, it's another case of the game devs not really thinking things through very well.

They have no foresight so the game becomes a mess, players leave and then they change the meta around as a solution.

There is a pvp player with 1.3k CP, he's a sorc on top of that. He is 100% impossible to 1v1 and can completely ignore /dance 1v2 and 1v3. I mean he literally does nothing against 1v3 rank 25+ players.

The CP is so out of whack that fighting someone with over 1k CP when you are between 100-300CP is like an unbuffed vet 1 vs a buffed vet 14.

Several people got very high CP from not the most honest means....

BugCollector · August 2015

Totally agree!

Freeman · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Well being in Hardcore raid guild EP with an average of 400 CP I do care that AD/DC hardcore raid guilds most have 700+ CP

And please dont tell me I just should go grind...

There are only a few individuals with such high CP, by no means do the hardcore raiding guilds all have this amount of CP.

Some dude just told me 2h ago that he has 780 CP and he has to catch up to his guildies...he said there arent that much with such cp but in his guild there are 8-9 dudes. not gonna tell names tho. believe it or not i dont care.

Freeman wrote: »

@Alcast

Sounds like you have a Learn to Play issue. Instead of spending time trying to figure out how to imporve yourself/build/gear, you come to the forums and blame your lack of skill on 'all the players that have 1k CP'.

You also failed to mention how many points you have. Don't think you have very many? Well then go grind/get more points like everyone else that's put the time in. There are plenty of efficient spots to do so. Say you don't have time for that? Then find time if it's that important to you. Otherwise deal with it and be content with the points you do earn during the time you can play and maximize your gear/build/skill. You're still going to die at times no matter how many points you have. And you're not going to be handed everything because you whine and complain and don't want to put in the work for it.

I am sitting at 407 CP.

and NO GRINDING GOBLINS is not a l2p issue LOOOOL /holymotherofretardedness

prolly getting banned for that but w/e

Those are 2 entirely seperate things I was talking about. But good try reading anyway.

trimsic_ESO · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

WHY no CP CAP yet? Just let the 1k guys keep wrecking the newbies? You wanna get rid of subs??

I mean, cant be that hard to introduce a cap...really...its annoying as f....

Agree: no reason not to implement a CP cap per season (DLC) when IC is released. I'd rather see IC delayed than IC without the CP cap.

SickDuck · August 2015

For PvP they should consider account based PvP ranking and PvP rank based campaigns. PvE noobs with high CP still will be dead meat for experienced PvPers.

For PvE it can be a big issue too but only if you are aiming for the leaderboards. As much as I don't like the way those work today I don't think it should be solved by punishing people with high CP. Leaderboards sadly and greatly depend on DPS which is greatly affected by the amount of CP to a certain point - as pointed out. I'd welcome a change in the system that would reward skills more than raw fire power but don't see why that should punish grinders.

That said I'm currently sitting at 308 CP and have no time to grind at all...

Divinius · August 2015

I've said it before, and I'll say it a thousand times if I have to until someone listens.

Capping CP is not the solution.

No matter how low they set the cap, there will always be people well below it getting crushed in PvP and complaining about it (regardless of whether the CP difference was the actual cause of them getting crushed).

And no matter how high they set the cap, the hardcore grinders are going to get annoyed that they can't progress their CP once they hit it.

Also, what happens to the people that are already over the cap, when the cap is implemented? Where do their extra CP go? They can't go to the void, or there will be infinite raging. They could be "locked", I suppose, but that just means that when the cap is next raised, they'll instantly be at it.

Once again, CP imbalance is only a problem in PvP (and before anyone says it, PvE leaderboards are totally a "LOL" reason to want a cap). Just make all PvP campaigns "zero-CP" (or "battle level" everyone to 1200 CP or something), and leave the rest of the game alone! Problem solved, without the need for any stupid global CP caps.

Rook_Master · August 2015

It's a L2P issue.

Learn 2 Pitch a tent in the goblin cave and quit your job to farm 10h/day until you have a competitive amount of CP.

F7sus4 · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Well being in Hardcore raid guild EP with an average of 400 CP I do care that AD/DC hardcore raid guilds most have 700+ CP

Both BFB and BI are in their 400 CPs on average and it doesn't help you much.

Alcast · August 2015

F7sus4 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Well being in Hardcore raid guild EP with an average of 400 CP I do care that AD/DC hardcore raid guilds most have 700+ CP

Both BFB and BI are in their 400 CPs on average and it doesn't help you much.

you made my day

Tyr · August 2015

BEZDNA wrote: »

Also ZoS sad that there are 35 ppl with more then 600 cp total. I don't know about NA, but i know more then 35 on EU who has more then 600 cp, so that shud be *snipe* information.

Actually there's no way for you to know that for sure because there's no way to check player info in game.

In other words, those people are mostly lying to you to inflate their own ego.

Tyr · August 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

They said there thinking of having one with the catch up mechanic but I for one am not for it cause it will hurt those players in the middle with 200+ CP and not solve the real problem with those with 700+ CP. Cause those high end CP players already have there power and will keep it there till the gap catches up with them months or years down the road.

Well no, they won't get to spend more than the cap for CP, and most people will be able to reach the cap by the time the next DLC launches.

A cap will be totally pointless if they don't force a reset of CP, so expect them to do that when Orsinium launches.

TheBull · August 2015

Ayantir wrote: »

If zos didn't lied, there are are ~50 players with > 600 cp

so :

25 eu / 25 na

8 EU EP
8 EU AD
8 EU DC

8 NA EP
8 NA AD
8 NA DC

So you can mathematically get as ennemy ~16 over powered players due to their CP. That's not a "so big issue".

And they said there will be a cap at orsinium.
Guess it will be 400cp / dlc. So orsinium cap should be at 800. That's fair enought.

PS: 3600 CP = base game + 8 dlc.

Link?

NobleNerd · August 2015

Ayantir wrote: »

@Leandor : Last Twitch or ask us anything, I don't know the name of thoses web broadcast. they only said ~50 players > 600cp

As a guild leader I don't have much time to grind out CP, but I am personally sitting at almost 200. I doubt there is only 50 in the game at 600 or higher.

Wycks · August 2015

The problem is that you can gain CP from PvE. So what some PvP'ers do is just farm PvE all day (maybe they have no life) and then flip over into PvP and have an advantage, which is lame.

Why should a PvE farmer have a PvP advantage? It makes no sense.

In DAOC you got abilities based on PvP and only PvP, mixing pve gains in pvp is always a recipe for failure.

Slylok · August 2015

I play in non vet campaigns ( since level 10 and just now 25 on my templar that I am using ) so unless every enemy I have come across has no or little CPs I cant tell a difference between how tough an enemy is due to CPs.

But this is another example how PvP balance can potentially ruin a good progression system.

Xael · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Global CP caps are totally stupid.

Just make CP capped in PvP only. That's the only place where it's an issue.

In PvE its also an issue, lol. Its a dps increase of 8k+ from 0 to around 500 CP.

The number of people with that many CPs is such a small percentage of the overall playerbase that their impact on gameplay (in both PvE and PvP) is negligible. If people want to grind for hundreds of hours to top the leaderboards or wreck pugs, that's fine with me. Thanks to Enlightenment CP numbers likely resemble a pretty standard bell curve. There's nothing wrong with having small percentages of outliers--in both directions--in an MMO.

so you are totally find rewarding grinders for ENDLESS hours killing goblins? .....ok

Absolutely.
Do we reward grinders who run around in zergballs farming AP?
Where do we draw the line? This *** is getting old fast.

Moreover after about 400 CP it's a dropoff, and all I do is pvp and yet have I died and sat back and said "Wow man, that guy must have a lot of CP to have beaten me" This is never the case.

For the record I have disabled my CP on my PvP characters keeping only 30 in Apprentice or Ritual (depending on stam or magicka) for the Crit. That's it. Just to prove I don't need CP to crap all over people. Everyone is constantly looking for an excuse to why they are not on the same level as other people. This is so weak and tiresome, it really needs to stop. That said, with only 30 CP I don't find myself being outplayed due to CP. If you are a competent PvPer, CP is not going to be an issue. Otherwise you are making excuses...

cazlonb16_ESO · August 2015

bob.ellisonb16_ESO wrote: »

CP is so unbalanced, this this is going to cause major problems, it's another case of the game devs not really thinking things through very well.

They have no foresight so the game becomes a mess, players leave and then they change the meta around as a solution.

And have to spend enormous amounts of efforts to do so that with some better planning could have been put to much much better use. We've seen this pattern repeatedly now.

For having so many MMO vets on their team they seem to be surprisingly oblivious to what behaviour to expect of players.

sadownik · August 2015

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

bob.ellisonb16_ESO wrote: »

CP is so unbalanced, this this is going to cause major problems, it's another case of the game devs not really thinking things through very well.

They have no foresight so the game becomes a mess, players leave and then they change the meta around as a solution.

And have to spend enormous amounts of efforts to do so that with some better planning could have been put to much much better use. We've seen this pattern repeatedly now.

For having so many MMO vets on their team they seem to be surprisingly oblivious to what behaviour to expect of players.

This buges me too. Those are the things that should be obvious and yet here we are.

Domander · August 2015

You mean, all 6 of them?

You probably shouldn't blame champion points for getting wrecked.

Apokh · August 2015

Yeah, if you meet one of these six its time to begin playing lottery. Perhaps take a look at the cp, it has an influence - sure. But do a some maths and you will ask, who makes a thread like this one.

nimander99 · August 2015

Lets be honest, newbs get beat with or without cp's

I also have a question for everyone who has issue with cp's... when they are effectively removed from the game (because you know zos will buckle eventually) and you all continue to get face rolled... what system will you point too then as the reason you are still dying in Cyrodiil?

timidobserver · August 2015

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

WHY no CP CAP yet? Just let the 1k guys keep wrecking the newbies? You wanna get rid of subs??

I mean, cant be that hard to introduce a cap...really...its annoying as f....

Agree: no reason not to implement a CP cap per season (DLC) when IC is released. I'd rather see IC delayed than IC without the CP cap.

This needs to happen in addition to a sliding catch-up mechanic. People with more than 75% off of the cap gain 40% more cp. People more than 50% off gain 20% more.

Master_Kas · August 2015

Ayantir wrote: »

If zos didn't lied, there are are ~50 players with > 600 cp

so :

25 eu / 25 na

8 EU EP
8 EU AD
8 EU DC

8 NA EP
8 NA AD
8 NA DC

So you can mathematically get as ennemy ~16 over powered players due to their CP. That's not a "so big issue".

And they said there will be a cap at orsinium.
Guess it will be 400cp / dlc. So orsinium cap should be at 800. That's fair enought.

PS: 3600 CP = base game + 8 dlc.

LOL thats *** xD I got 400ish CP and I've hardly been grinding.

Some people grind hours in CWC daily with mara partner + sub bonus + xp scrolls/pots. They are way above 750+

MisterBigglesworth · August 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

Lets be honest, newbs get beat with or without cp's

I also have a question for everyone who has issue with cp's... when they are effectively removed from the game (because you know zos will buckle eventually) and you all continue to get face rolled... what system will you point too then as the reason you are still dying in Cyrodiil?

Lack of soft caps.
Animation cancelling.
Lag.

nimander99 · August 2015

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Lets be honest, newbs get beat with or without cp's

I also have a question for everyone who has issue with cp's... when they are effectively removed from the game (because you know zos will buckle eventually) and you all continue to get face rolled... what system will you point too then as the reason you are still dying in Cyrodiil?

Lack of soft caps.

Animation cancelling.

Lag.

HAHAHAHAHAHAA! You got me there mate

coyteriarwb17_ESO · August 2015

How does ZoS have all this time for nerfing classes but not capping champion points... They need to be capped regardless of percentage of players.

omfgitsbatman · August 2015

Even if a cap were to be put on CP's , it wouldn't fix anything for very long.
If you consider a vast disparity of champion points as a problem, then you are going to be disappointed. Even if they did cap CP in a proggressively increasing amount (which is what I believe is being asked for) as soon as the cap got raised, there would be a vast disparity between Players that have been around a while and players that are new to the game. With something like the champion system, a veteran player is always going to have that advantage over a newbie. There really isn't anything to be done about it as long as the champion system is a thing.

On a somewhat related note, champion points really do start mattering less and less. I'm not saying that they don't matter once you get more of them. I would be stupid to say something like that. They matter. Of course they do. But they don't matter that much.
A person that played on 2 accounts on 2 o the exact same character builds with one account having 100 CP and one having 400 CP would notice the difference, but it would not be a make or break for any fight in the game, pve or pvp.
Similarily, a person with 400 points will not notice a huge spike between 400 and 800 points. It will be noticed, but again, it will not be raid breaking.
The difference between 100 and 800 champion points would be pretty large though.
There are only so many really useful places to put points in any given build. After a while, a PVE magicka sorcerer is going to start putting points into reduced roll dodge cost or something of the sort. This really isn't helping his overall performance in pve but a miniscule amount in some cases.

vanzan · August 2015

As a stam glass nb:
- 300cp
-- Warrior: -15% crit/ -15% hardy
-- Thief: +25% stam regen
-- Mage: +15% base/ +15% crit

- 600cp
-- Warrior: -15% crit/ -15% hardy/ -15% block cost/ -15% elemental
-- Thief: +25% stam regen/ +15% mag regen/ -10% stam cost
-- Mage: +20% base/ +20% crit/ +15% heavy attack

- 900cp
-- Warrior: -15% crit/ -15% hardy/ -15% block cost/ -15% elemental/ -15% dots/ +10% healing
-- Thief: +25% stam regen/ +15% mag regen/ -10% stam cost/ -10% mag cost/ -15% sprint cost
-- Mage: +25% base/ +25% crit/ +15% heavy attack / +15% armor pen

- 1200cp
-- Warrior: -15% crit/ -15% hardy/ -15% block cost/ -15% elemental/ -15% dots/ +10% healing/ +15% shields / +15% spell res
-- Thief:+25% stam regen/ +25% mag regen/ -10% stam cost/ -10% mag cost/ -15% sprint cost/ +11% dodgeroll
-- Mage: +25% base/ +25% crit/ +15% heavy attack / +15% armor pen / +15% healing/ +15% crit heals

- 1500cp
-- Warrior: -25% crit/ -25% hardy/ -15% block cost/ -15% elemental/ -15% dots/ +10% healing/ +15% shields / +15% spell res
-- Thief:+25% stam regen/ +25% mag regen/ -10% stam cost/ -10% mag cost/ -15% sprint cost/ +11% dodgeroll/ -24% time in snare
-- Mage: +25% base/ +25% crit/ +25% heavy attack / +25% armor pen / +15% healing/ +15% crit heals

- 1800cp
-- Warrior: -25% crit/ -25% hardy/ -15% block cost/ -20% elemental/ -20% dots/ +10% healing/ +25% shields / +15% spell res
-- Thief: +25% stam regen/ +25% mag regen/ -10% stam cost/ -10% mag cost/ -15% sprint cost/ +11% dodgeroll/ -24% time in snare/ -15% bash cost/ +10% return from heavy attack
-- Mage: +25% base/ +25% crit/ +25% axe&mace / +25% armor pen / +25% healing/ +15% crit heals/ +15% blade heavy

- 2100cp
-- Warrior: -25% crit/ -25% hardy/ -15% block cost/ -25% elemental/ -25% dots/ +10% healing/ +25% shields / +25% spell res
-- Thief:+25% stam regen/ +25% mag regen/ -15% stam cost/ -10% mag cost/ -15% sprint cost/ +18% dodgeroll/ -24% time in snare/ -15% bash cost/ +10% return from heavy attack
-- Mage: +25% base/ +25% crit/ +25% axe&mace / +25% armor pen / +25% healing/ +25% crit heals/ +15% blade heavy/ 15% spell pen