Sorcerer Change Suggestions and Reasoning

Jar_Ek · August 2015

I was reading through some PTS comments a few days ago and saw some interesting change ideas - but cannot find the damned thread it was in. So I have recreated the suggestions as best I can recall them (and hence almost certainly changed them in the process) as I think they are worthy of discussion...

So what are your thoughts? Could we get around these ideas of are they too radical?
@Cathexis @Erock25 @Dracane @Xael @CP5

Lightning Form
This does not provide any protection (so no resolve or ward buffs) – or maybe only provides a minor resolve / ward buff.
The PBAoE damage it provides is much higher than currently - equivalent to Lightning Splash (and morphs) plus the current Lightning Form damage (hence why it may not provide any defence any more), but the effect is attached to the sorcerer. It is still considered to be ground targeted.
An additional idea would be to allow the lightning form to be shed, leaving a ground based AoE at the location it is shed [which could also apply a short duration root at the dropped location, 1s]. The shed lightning would last the remaining duration of the ability (and hence it would be cancelled if recast).
Base duration would be 15s, +1s per morph rank
Boundless Storm provides a mobility buff (expeditious).
Thundering Presence provides a range buff (i.e. the AoE effect is bigger) and costs / scales with Stamina/Weapon Power.

Reasoning:
This becomes the new Liquid Lightning, but the sorcerer must stay on the mob to be effective. Because it is now a melee skill, the damage is higher than Liquid Lightning (risk vs reward) – and it still synergises with Impulse (as that is also PBAoE). Because the ability can be shed, the effect of losing Liquid Lightning is reduced but to drop the Lightning the sorcerer needs to put himself at risk.
Bound Armour now becomes the class defensive skill (other than Conjured Ward).

Bound Armour
Bound Armour provides a major resolve and a major ward buff whilst active, but also reduces max magicka by 8% whilst active.
Bound Armaments provides a berserk buff (8% damage)
Bound Aegis provides a minor protection buff (8% mitigation)buff.
Each rank in a morph (past the first ) reduces the max magicka penalty by 1% (so the reduction is 5% at rank 4).

Reasoning:
This becomes the class defensive armour/spell resist skill. It has a slight impact on max magicka, but can be morphed for better protection (tanks, and some PvPers), or for better damage (dps). Both morphs are equally usable by stamina or magicka builds. The reason for a max magicka penalty is because the ability is quite powerful in this form, although the max magicka penalty could be swapped for max stamina for the Aegis morph.

Lightning Splash
Remove lightning splash completely and move the synergy either to the new Lightning Form or create a new synergy for Encase.
Replace with a “Lightning Bolt” ability. This is a close range (10m – 15m maybe) instant cast, immediate delivery, direct damage spammable single target lightning ability (such as a bolt of lightning), which does not have a CC component and is not an execute. It causes its damage immediately and does not have any appreciable casting or travel time delay. This will synergise with the class / skill line passives.
The potential morphs of this are likely to be one morph that hits multiple secondary targets based on their proximity (i.e. forked or chain lightning) and one that increases the base ability range. Alternatively there is scope for a morph to apply a debuff or CC effect (e.g. maim, defile or a snare).
One morph should be a stamina scaled morph (probably the debuff) and one a magicka scaled one (probably the multi-target one).

Reasoning: The role of Liquid Lightning has been taken by Lightning Form – freeing a slot for a new ability. The main complaint of all sorcerers is the lack of a single target direct damage, spammable ability. This provides that option for both stamina and magicka builds. It can hit relatively hard because it applies no CC and is short(ish) range, but not monstrously because it is instant and still ranged. For magicka builds it could replace Force/Crushing Shock and for melee builds could provide a class instant ability (like Veiled Strike or Lava Whip). In addition if one morph provided an AoE effect it could (at least partially) take the place of Lightning Splash for AoE damage at range (depends on the number of targets hit by it).

Questions:
Would this cripple and sorcerer playstyles?

Magicka builds:
The change to Bound Armour would reduce their potential to stack maximum magicka by 8% (which is about 3.2k at 40k magicka), but provide better base armour/spell resist and either an 8% post shield break mitigation or 8% across-the-board damage increase for the same slot requirement. So I personally think this would be neutral to positive for most magicka users.
The change to Lightning Form would mean that Impulse spam in melee range would be just as effective as currently (i.e. Impluse used with Lightning Splash whilst running Lightning Form).
The addition of Lightning Bolt would provide a spammable Lightning based filler / replacement for Force Shock/Crushing Shock and would provide much better synergies with the class passives. Depending on the morphs it could also provide some ranged AoE.

Ranged builds:
The changes could adversely affect builds that are designed to work only at range as Lightning Splash would no longer be applied at range. However weaving the new Lightning Bolt skill would be weavable with other abilities – enabling for an effective capability at range, including AoE with the multi-target morph (although with a slightly reduced range compared to Lightning Splash).

Stamina builds:
Much the same as for magicka builds, the change to Bound Armour would reduce their potential to stack maximum stamina by 8%, but provide better base armour/spell resist and either an 8% post shield break mitigation or 8% across-the-board damage increase for the same slot requirement. So again I think this would be neutral to positive for most stamina users.
The change to Lightning Form would support stamina melee favourably and better than Lighting Splash did due to the stamina morph being effective for dps.
The addition of Lightning Bolt would provide a spammable Lightning based ability that would provide much better synergies with the class passives and one morph would scale with stamina.

Overall an improvement for stamina melee builds; a neutral to minor positive impact for magicka builds.
It would also support tanks better (Bound Aegis provides mitigation) and would be neutral for healers.

CP5 · August 2015

We can't have this, these would be to useful to a large number of builds. We need to keep in mind any change to a sorcerer skill must adversely reduce the effectiveness of said skill in other builds in order to be implemented.

Joking aside I like these ideas. The ability to drop the lightning form dot seems like it would be a bit to code however but these ideas are a nice refresher back to February when there were a lot more floating around. Also as someone whose stamina sorc is a bow user I would be very interested in many of these changes, and my caster alt would be able to do a lot more creative things then slowly become the fotm build. Like these ideas a lot.

Dracane · August 2015

I say no to lightning form. There are too many boss fights, where staying in melee range is no option. Hard Mage, Engine Guardian, just to name a few. Lightning splash at least gives us the possibility to increase our ranged dps a bit. If we would loose lightning splash in fights, where staying in melee range is not possible, Sorcerer DPS would extinct like the dinosaurs.

Mage's Fury is what we have to change, this has to become our spammable class ability, that is on par with other spamable abilities. Slightly increase the cost, give it more damage than crushing shock. More, because crushing shock provides an interrupt while Mage's Fury is only damage. Make mage's Fury able to crit (the initial bolt cannot crit) but make it impossible to crit against blocking targets.

And the way to boost our DPS, is by increasing the attack speed of the Twilight pet by 50%, 2,5 second attacks are tooo slow. And increase her damage a bit. Both should be achieved by adjusting the Master Summoner Passive. Also the damage of the Atronach cannot be considered ultimate for a damage ultimate. I would reduce the cost of the Atronach to ensure a better uptime, so that we can use him regulary to increase our overall dps. At the moment, he is too expensive for his liddle damage. Another suggestion that I read over and over again and that I find quite usefull, is to turn Daedric Prey into a damage over time effect. But that's only a side idea and is not the main point, even though it would make sense actually.

Yea and that's pretty much all that needs to be done to fix Sorcerer damage, and Zenimax also makes pet usefull already. Because at the moment, I wouldn't use them for damage dealing. This way we don't really interfere with Sorcerers pvp performance, make pets viable (that's what the developers want as well) and migh bring Sorcerer dps on par with other classes.

I also would like to see a change for Daedric Tomb, which is probably the least used Sorcerer ability. Maybe turning into a kind of ground AoE or so, something like the End Boss Nerien Eth does. He summons harmfull fields (yea, they also explode afterwards, but that doesn't matter here) that damage those who stand in it. Wasn't really thinking about it. BUT Daedric Tomb offers big potential to help Sorcerer DPS, we should talk about that.

DDemon · August 2015

Liquid lightning is needed to get somewhat close to half the damage other classes like templar can put out, removing it would mean removing 2,5k dps from an already low dps class. (overload excluded)

I like the idea of adding a spammable ability to sorcerer, it's really missing one, however keep in mind, in end game pve the dps is already way behind.

Your suggested change to bound armor would make it undesirable for magica sorcs to use, as it would reduce magica pool, and thus reduce dps.

I am talking about magica sorcerer here, and have no idea how it would impact a stamina sorcerer. I do realize in pvp a magica sorcerer class is still really powerful, but in end game pve it's left behind by a long shot.

Cathexis · August 2015

@Jar_Ek First off I'm honoured you consider my opinion of value ^_^

(1) I like the idea of a shed-able lightning form, I tend to run a full range build and from that perspective I can see some utility as a tactical utility to deter being chased. I am assuming that this morph or one morph would be stamina scaling (forgive me if I'm wrong). I had three thoughts about this:

- from a range build perspective it might help if this had some other utility like a snare similar to caltrops
- it would have a lot more utility if they also increased the proc rate of incinerate so it would have a chance of proving a ton of extra damage
- from a range perspective the same thing could be accomplished with a stamina scaling daedric tomb

(2) I have to agree that bound armor should increase magicka and not decrease it (that's why its useful, thats why I use the stamina equivalent). I like the idea of a morph providing a minor protection buff, and I think it would be a nice touch across bound armor and all of its morphs as oppose to providing armor and resistance (which are currently not really a reason to use it). From a bigger picture perspective as a stamina sorc, this would be a great benefit, but it still doesn't compensate for a lack of active damage mitigation (something on par with shields or reflect abilities etc)

(3) Setting aside the fact that a lot of people would be mad at losing liquid lightning, you pretty well nailed it with lightning bolt and its morphs. My only concern however is that it has to be competitive with silver shards (which has standard range attack range, can deal around 5k base physical damage + 2x 2.5k base physical damage to 2 other targets + can proc 2.5k magic damage on all targets + can proc up to 3* camo hunter + all of those can crit) and the stamina inner fire morph (3k damage + 5k magic damage synergy effect @ standard range) which means its going to have to seriously pack a punch especially if you are taking a range hit and only doing lightning damage. If it did say half physical and half lightning damage and output for the average player say 12-14k base damage total or if the lightning damage bypassed spell resistance, that would make it better for stam users. I know I probably would only keep it on my buff bar as a close range punch (right now i just use camo hunter surge buffed smite if im absolutely forced into a melee fight -- if I'm using that its usually an absolute last resort) unless it could do at minimum standard range attack distances.

All in all you posted some valuable, interesting contributions, so thank you for tagging me on the post.

Scyantific · August 2015

Put the speed boost on the base form of Lightning Form, add new effects to the morphs themselves.
Thundering Presence (Stamina Morph) - restore Stamina for each mob hit (moderate number, don't make it too small or too large), grant Minor Berserk for half the duration.
Boundless Storm - Give an effect that helps out magicka DPS (snare on hit, etc.).

Bound Armor is fine, maybe have each morph give a small increase in damage (weapon or spell)

Leave Lightning Splash as is. We're already seriously lacking in AoE and you want to take more away? Please.

If anything I think Rune Prison needs a bit of a buff, since it's basically useless.

Xael · August 2015

Jar_Ek wrote: »

I was reading through some PTS comments a few days ago and saw some interesting change ideas - but cannot find the damned thread it was in. So I have recreated the suggestions as best I can recall them (and hence almost certainly changed them in the process) as I think they are worthy of discussion...

So what are your thoughts? Could we get around these ideas of are they too radical?
@Cathexis @Erock25 @Dracane @Xael @CP5

Lightning Form
This does not provide any protection (so no resolve or ward buffs) – or maybe only provides a minor resolve / ward buff.
The PBAoE damage it provides is much higher than currently - equivalent to Lightning Splash (and morphs) plus the current Lightning Form damage (hence why it may not provide any defence any more), but the effect is attached to the sorcerer. It is still considered to be ground targeted.
An additional idea would be to allow the lightning form to be shed, leaving a ground based AoE at the location it is shed [which could also apply a short duration root at the dropped location, 1s]. The shed lightning would last the remaining duration of the ability (and hence it would be cancelled if recast).
Base duration would be 15s, +1s per morph rank
Boundless Storm provides a mobility buff (expeditious).
Thundering Presence provides a range buff (i.e. the AoE effect is bigger) and costs / scales with Stamina/Weapon Power.

Reasoning:
This becomes the new Liquid Lightning, but the sorcerer must stay on the mob to be effective. Because it is now a melee skill, the damage is higher than Liquid Lightning (risk vs reward) – and it still synergises with Impulse (as that is also PBAoE). Because the ability can be shed, the effect of losing Liquid Lightning is reduced but to drop the Lightning the sorcerer needs to put himself at risk.
Bound Armour now becomes the class defensive skill (other than Conjured Ward).

Bound Armour
Bound Armour provides a major resolve and a major ward buff whilst active, but also reduces max magicka by 8% whilst active.
Bound Armaments provides a berserk buff (8% damage)
Bound Aegis provides a minor protection buff (8% mitigation)buff.
Each rank in a morph (past the first ) reduces the max magicka penalty by 1% (so the reduction is 5% at rank 4).

Reasoning:
This becomes the class defensive armour/spell resist skill. It has a slight impact on max magicka, but can be morphed for better protection (tanks, and some PvPers), or for better damage (dps). Both morphs are equally usable by stamina or magicka builds. The reason for a max magicka penalty is because the ability is quite powerful in this form, although the max magicka penalty could be swapped for max stamina for the Aegis morph.

Lightning Splash
Remove lightning splash completely and move the synergy either to the new Lightning Form or create a new synergy for Encase.
Replace with a “Lightning Bolt” ability. This is a close range (10m – 15m maybe) instant cast, immediate delivery, direct damage spammable single target lightning ability (such as a bolt of lightning), which does not have a CC component and is not an execute. It causes its damage immediately and does not have any appreciable casting or travel time delay. This will synergise with the class / skill line passives.
The potential morphs of this are likely to be one morph that hits multiple secondary targets based on their proximity (i.e. forked or chain lightning) and one that increases the base ability range. Alternatively there is scope for a morph to apply a debuff or CC effect (e.g. maim, defile or a snare).
One morph should be a stamina scaled morph (probably the debuff) and one a magicka scaled one (probably the multi-target one).

Reasoning: The role of Liquid Lightning has been taken by Lightning Form – freeing a slot for a new ability. The main complaint of all sorcerers is the lack of a single target direct damage, spammable ability. This provides that option for both stamina and magicka builds. It can hit relatively hard because it applies no CC and is short(ish) range, but not monstrously because it is instant and still ranged. For magicka builds it could replace Force/Crushing Shock and for melee builds could provide a class instant ability (like Veiled Strike or Lava Whip). In addition if one morph provided an AoE effect it could (at least partially) take the place of Lightning Splash for AoE damage at range (depends on the number of targets hit by it).

Questions:
Would this cripple and sorcerer playstyles?

Magicka builds:
The change to Bound Armour would reduce their potential to stack maximum magicka by 8% (which is about 3.2k at 40k magicka), but provide better base armour/spell resist and either an 8% post shield break mitigation or 8% across-the-board damage increase for the same slot requirement. So I personally think this would be neutral to positive for most magicka users.
The change to Lightning Form would mean that Impulse spam in melee range would be just as effective as currently (i.e. Impluse used with Lightning Splash whilst running Lightning Form).
The addition of Lightning Bolt would provide a spammable Lightning based filler / replacement for Force Shock/Crushing Shock and would provide much better synergies with the class passives. Depending on the morphs it could also provide some ranged AoE.

Ranged builds:
The changes could adversely affect builds that are designed to work only at range as Lightning Splash would no longer be applied at range. However weaving the new Lightning Bolt skill would be weavable with other abilities – enabling for an effective capability at range, including AoE with the multi-target morph (although with a slightly reduced range compared to Lightning Splash).

Stamina builds:
Much the same as for magicka builds, the change to Bound Armour would reduce their potential to stack maximum stamina by 8%, but provide better base armour/spell resist and either an 8% post shield break mitigation or 8% across-the-board damage increase for the same slot requirement. So again I think this would be neutral to positive for most stamina users.
The change to Lightning Form would support stamina melee favourably and better than Lighting Splash did due to the stamina morph being effective for dps.
The addition of Lightning Bolt would provide a spammable Lightning based ability that would provide much better synergies with the class passives and one morph would scale with stamina.

Overall an improvement for stamina melee builds; a neutral to minor positive impact for magicka builds.
It would also support tanks better (Bound Aegis provides mitigation) and would be neutral for healers.

@Jar_Ek
Thanks for the tag.

I read the post and I like the idea of Bound Arms giving a damage buff like a minor berserk. This would make it worth using. As it currently stands the ability is NOT worth a slot. It would be maybe if the overload bug was still working, but otherwise no, too many more necessary things to slot just to stay at average. Even with the upcoming change (THAT DID NOT MAKE IT ONTO PTS) regarding our passives, as the spell stands, it would still not be worth slotting. So yeah, I'm all for a minor berserk.

Regarding Lightning Form... I can't get behind this one.
I have been a longtime fan of Boundless Storm. I used it in the beta, I used at launch, I use it now. I love it. Everything about it in fact. Pre 1.5 I remember when softcaps were in and I would play as a hybrid and my Boundless Storm would proc Disintegrate and do like 1200 damage. Remember, if you had 3k Health back then as a non DK you were a bad ass

Anyhow, I love Boundless Storm even today. Though I noticed Disintegrate is not doing the damage it should with 1.6 type of stats/damage. I love the resist/armor it gives and it has been a lifesaver countless times. It's also amazing for breaching things like towers or keeps in Cyrodiil where normal people would get wrecked. So yeah, I say keep it as it is instead of some strange quirky aoe thing. I told a few people already if they changed Boundless Storm I would quit my Sorc. That's the last straw. 2 things I absolutely love about the class, Streak and Boundless. Streak is already on the way out...

Lightning Splash... well I didn't like the Lightning Form change idea, so I kinda can't get behind this as it's predicated on the former. I know a few people that use this AoE so I know they would not want it removed. Since launch it has given Might of the Guild procs, most people don't know this, others are quiet about it because its awesome

Pretty sure it got fixed in this patch on PTS though

Honestly aside from a much needed change to Crystal Blast (making it a Stam Frag), I don't see the need to have "new" stuff. ZOS can't even get the old stuff right, I would hate to try and get them to add new stuff and remove old stuff. Right now it's like pulling teeth trying to get Eric Wrobel or @ZOS_BrianWheeler to address my Stam Sorc question even though it was in his hand. I know it was skipped intentionally as you addressed the one immediately before mine and the one after

Anyhow... Really all we need currently is the damage on Thundering Presence to be adjusted, more Weapon Damage, and a Stam morph of Frags (cyrstal blast a carbon copy of Frags just stam based). Regarding the passive for weapon damage (expert mage)... @ZOS_BrianWheeler currently the skills a Sorc would need to slot to benefit from this would be Streak/Lightning Form/Bound Arms/Dark Exchange. These are the only real skills a Stamina Sorc would consider in PvP and Bound Arms/Dark Exchange in their current form ARE NOT worth slotting, ever. To even stay at average damage (v2.1) we need a buff/bow second bar (Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Camo, Degen, etc) with our main bar (Streak, Lightning Form, Execute, WreckingBlow, Stampede). We really need those 3 2h skills and Lightning Form is a no-brainer. Streak I suppose you could drop, but why would you? It's one of the best set-ups we can slot. Now that said, do you see how paltry Expert Mage would be? Do you really think we would want to add 2 more abilities to our offensive attack bar? I mean think about it, we want the weapon damage to affect our damage so this means our offensive bar. Nobody is going to have Dark Exchange or other Magicka morphs on their bar. It's just not happening. Please consider what I have said @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Dracane · August 2015

[quote="Xael;2143425"Even with the upcoming change (THAT DID NOT MAKE IT ONTO PTS) regarding our passives, as the spell stands, it would still not be worth slotting.

[/quote]

What kind of change is this ? Any usefull buffs for our passives ?
Or are you talking about this stamina Sorcerer stuff ?

Jar_Ek · August 2015

Thanks all for taking the time to look at these suggestions. I will quickly restate they aren't really mine and I posted them to foster debate - although I do think they would be interesting.

The key thing to note is that bound armour would provide the major armour and spell resist buffs (and could come with a no increase or decrease to max resource), which means that lightning form would not need it, and then as lightning form would provide the aoe DoT then lightning splash would be less necessary. So the suggestions are all linked.

Now I do understand the concern with the removal of lightning splash as it is a powerful, ranged, ground targeted aoe, and similarly understand the love for boundless lightning. These changes would shift things around, but in theory keep all the same capability and release an ability slot for a spammed direct damage ability. But taking them piecemeal would be horrible.

That said taking a few elements piecemeal would not be so bad maybe, esp. If the buff system was more intelligently designed so that two major buffs converted to a major and a minor. That way bound armour could have a major buff for example.

Jar_Ek · August 2015

Also one other thing, I am against having skills with a bonus to maximum stats as they become increasingly powerful and potentially required skills as the game and stats increase. This makes for a balance nightmare and means the same skill provides wildly different levels of support. I would far rather have a fixed value that scaled with level. Thus the current bound armour, magelight, and structured entropy would all provide a fixed bonus rather than a %... probably of about 2.5k.

Dracane · August 2015

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Now I do understand the concern with the removal of lightning splash as it is a powerful, ranged, ground targeted ao

Naaaah, that's a bit exaggerated

I wouldn't call it strong. It's good, as we don't have anything else, but strong....

Dracane · August 2015

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Also one other thing, I am against having skills with a bonus to maximum stats as they become increasingly powerful and potentially required skills as the game and stats increase. This makes for a balance nightmare and means the same skill provides wildly different levels of support. I would far rather have a fixed value that scaled with level. Thus the current bound armour, magelight, and structured entropy would all provide a fixed bonus rather than a %... probably of about 2.5k.

Nightblades get 8% max Magicka for free from their passives, by simply slotting an Ultimate for example. All of their passives are extremely overpowered compared to other classes, and especially to our foolish passives. But this 8% max Magicka passives tops it all. A thief has 8% more Magicka and 15% more Magicka regen, while a Mage has only 10% Magicka regen and needs a useless toggle to achieve 8% more Magicka. This becomes a problem, as Magicka works as a focus, not as a ressource in this case and having it on your offensive bar is more than enough, no need to have it on my seconds bar

If they would turn Bound Armor into a buff, just like in Oblivion. Make it last 40 seconds or so and let it increase Magicka and so on. This way we would at least spare one skill slot and would be more on par with Nightblades. Having one more skill slot is essential and valueable. I don't dare dpsing anymore, as I don't know how to find a balance between damage output and how easy my build is to play. Currently, my dps build is impossible to play and is not efficient.

Jar_Ek · August 2015

@Dracane I agree wrt nightblades. However I still think that all skills (active and passive) should have a fixed level based effect and not be a % increase. It just makes balance so much easier to achieve... but it's probably way too late for that.

As for bound armour my view (and all toggles) is that it must be better than a normal skill slot as it takes 2 slots to maintain the passive benefits and hence is more restrictive than a straight passive or a straight active.

Dracane · August 2015

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@Dracane I agree wrt nightblades. However I still think that all skills (active and passive) should have a fixed level based effect and not be a % increase. It just makes balance so much easier to achieve... but it's probably way too late for that.

As for bound armour my view (and all toggles) is that it must be better than a normal skill slot as it takes 2 slots to maintain the passive benefits and hence is more restrictive than a straight passive or a straight active.

Indeed. Just like our poor rebate passive. it used to be a percentage, now it's a useless fix amount.
Other classes should suffer the same way.

And Bound armor has to become muuuch better. Magelight offers 7% Magicka and 10% crit. Why would I use Bound armor over Magelight ? I wouldn't

Jar_Ek · August 2015

I guess if zos were to harmonise major and minor buffs such that if a major buff already existed then a minor would be applied (unless the new major had a greater duration in which case it's major would be applied and the existing would become a minor), then you could use bound armour instead of lightning form for armour purposes (assuming it was buffed enough - upgrading the armour is a kinda null factor).. and stacking crit surge with rally would be beneficial. However I expect there would be all kinds of unforeseen side-effects unless someone were to sit down and work through all the ramifications.

Btw I like the idea of expeditious buff being a base element of lightning form, and then having morphs off that which suit magicka or stamina. It bypasses the issue around the speed buff being required. @Scyantific

I guess if the consensus is that lightning form and lightning splash need to stay as is, then mages fury should change and maybe a stamiina crystal shards morph - though I have been trying to work out alternatives to those, esp. shards.

My best compromise solution was still 3 morphs or an alternative passive morphs,to enable hybrids, stamina and non-fotm builds to work. But I can't see zos doing either of those idea. If you're interested, look at my threads history.

Cathexis · August 2015

@Xael I disagree about the current state of bound armaments, 8% stamina provides a generous buff. I use it on all 3 bars. I first realized its potential as a supplemental damage buff for execute, providing flat damage and resources instead of a resource drain and a low health damage bonus. The problem is you have to sacrifice 3 slots for it and it doesn't provide a significant defensive advantage or any other buffs short of meager life regen and defense. Personally I think it would be better suited as a 1-2 minute buff than a toggle.

Xael · August 2015

Cathexis wrote: »

@Xael I disagree about the current state of bound armaments, 8% stamina provides a generous buff. I use it on all 3 bars. I first realized its potential as a supplemental damage buff for execute, providing flat damage and resources instead of a resource drain and a low health damage bonus. The problem is you have to sacrifice 3 slots for it and it doesn't provide a significant defensive advantage or any other buffs.

@Cathexis you say you disagree with me and then agree with the reasons I cited for why I don't like/use it.

I don't understand your response unless you just want me to be aware that you disagree yet agree?

Currently in v2.1 there is no way you can use this without being subpar. I already have over 32k Stamina. Basically you are telling me to give up much needed skills for a toggle I need on both bars for 2400 Stamina, 154 tooltip damage on Execute, 460 extra tooltip damage on Wrecking blow and even less tooltip damage (100-200) for dual wield skills? Hell no. That's horrible. The damage increase in PvP is so miniscule it's not even worth having. I can't follow your reasoning here. This ability is currently garbage.

Dracane · August 2015

Xael wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

@Xael I disagree about the current state of bound armaments, 8% stamina provides a generous buff. I use it on all 3 bars. I first realized its potential as a supplemental damage buff for execute, providing flat damage and resources instead of a resource drain and a low health damage bonus. The problem is you have to sacrifice 3 slots for it and it doesn't provide a significant defensive advantage or any other buffs.

@Cathexis you say you disagree with me and then agree with the reasons I cited for why I don't like/use it.
I don't understand your response unless you just want me to be aware that you disagree yet agree?

Currently in v2.1 there is no way you can use this without being subpar. I already have over 32k Stamina. Basically you are telling me to give up much needed skills for a toggle I need on both bars for 2400 Stamina, 154 tooltip damage on Execute, 460 extra tooltip damage on Wrecking blow and even less tooltip damage (100-200) for dual wield skills? Hell no. That's horrible. The damage increase in PvP is so miniscule it's not even worth having. I can't follow your reasoning here. This ability is currently garbage.

True, Bound Armor is garbage and has always been garbage. If you look at what it demands from you and what it gives you in exchange.... no thanks.

Darnathian · August 2015

Buff sorcs! Takes 1.4 seconds to kill. That is game breaking!

Dracane · August 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

Buff sorcs! Takes 1.4 seconds to kill. That is game breaking!

Spare us with your sabotage attempt, we all know you hate Sorcerers.
We're discussing about PvE changes here.

Xael · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Buff sorcs! Takes 1.4 seconds to kill. That is game breaking!

Spare us with your sabotage attempt, we all know you hate Sorcerers.
We're discussing about PvE changes here.

No. We're definitely not.

Darnathian · August 2015

I don't hate sorcs. I hate sorcs that are not reasonable. Unfortunately ZOS does not distinguish between PVE and pvp as you know. So it will be a buff in pvp as well. So like I said buff sorcs

Most of all I hate imbalance and love the underdog. Hence why I play my dk and not my nb or sorc

Darnathian · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Buff sorcs! Takes 1.4 seconds to kill. That is game breaking!

Spare us with your sabotage attempt, we all know you hate Sorcerers.
We're discussing about PvE changes here.

You mean like you do with saying healing ward is the problem? Not hardened wards that do 18k? So funny. But a dk tank shield does 6k on a good day. Yes I will keep stating facts

Dracane · August 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Buff sorcs! Takes 1.4 seconds to kill. That is game breaking!

Spare us with your sabotage attempt, we all know you hate Sorcerers.
We're discussing about PvE changes here.

You mean like you do with saying healing ward is the problem? Not hardened wards that do 18k? So funny. But a dk tank shield does 6k on a good day. Yes I will keep stating facts

Yea because you have no clue about the game, simple as that. Don't want to be harsh, but you're the only person on this forum destroying my nerves with your unreasonable arguments.

A DK has mighty survival tools,a Sorcerer only has Bolt Escape, which got nerfed hard. That's why he has a strong class shield to compensate for that
You can't just compare classes like this.... but you do it anyway, because you have 0 insight for how classes are supposed to work and nothing will change your mind, you're too stubborn. Hardened ward offers 8-12k 13k max shield (only if you exploit) depending on your Magicka ! Note: I'm talking about the now and here, which is 1.7 with the pvp debuff.

Darnathian wrote: »

I don't hate sorcs. I hate sorcs that are not reasonable. Unfortunately ZOS does not distinguish between PVE and pvp as you know. So it will be a buff in pvp as well. So like I said buff sorcs

Most of all I hate imbalance and love the underdog. Hence why I play my dk and not my nb or sorc

Wrong again. Zenimax made clever buffs to Sorcerer dps. Where did Lightning splash interfere with PvP in a serious manner ? It did not. Could you.... could you please think a few seconds until starting to shout out your "facts" as you call it ? Or could you just play the game ? Seems like you've only played one class, so don't try arguing with me.

Darnathian · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Buff sorcs! Takes 1.4 seconds to kill. That is game breaking!

Spare us with your sabotage attempt, we all know you hate Sorcerers.
We're discussing about PvE changes here.

You mean like you do with saying healing ward is the problem? Not hardened wards that do 18k? So funny. But a dk tank shield does 6k on a good day. Yes I will keep stating facts

Yea because you have no clue about the game, simple as that. Don't want to be harsh, but you're the only person on this forum destroying my nerves with your unreasonable arguments.

A DK has might survival tools,a Sorcerer only has Bolt Escape, which got nerfed hard. That's why he has a strong class shield to compensate for that
You can't just compare classes like this.... but you do it anyway, because you have 0 insight for how classes are supposed to work and nothing will change your mind, you're too stubborn.

Darnathian wrote: »

I don't hate sorcs. I hate sorcs that are not reasonable. Unfortunately ZOS does not distinguish between PVE and pvp as you know. So it will be a buff in pvp as well. So like I said buff sorcs

Most of all I hate imbalance and love the underdog. Hence why I play my dk and not my nb or sorc

Wrong again. Zenimax made clever buffs to Sorcerer dps. Where did Lightning splash interfere with PvP in a serious manner ? It did not. Could you.... could you please think a few seconds until starting to shout out your "facts" as you call it ? Or could you just play the game ? Seems like you've only played one class, so don't try arguing with me.

I will the second you do. Do you deny that sorcs get a 18k spammable shield? Do you really believe that healing ward is the problem?

18k class shield and rising with cp points. That is a fact

Darnathian · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Buff sorcs! Takes 1.4 seconds to kill. That is game breaking!

Spare us with your sabotage attempt, we all know you hate Sorcerers.
We're discussing about PvE changes here.

You mean like you do with saying healing ward is the problem? Not hardened wards that do 18k? So funny. But a dk tank shield does 6k on a good day. Yes I will keep stating facts

Yea because you have no clue about the game, simple as that. Don't want to be harsh, but you're the only person on this forum destroying my nerves with your unreasonable arguments.

A DK has mighty survival tools,a Sorcerer only has Bolt Escape, which got nerfed hard. That's why he has a strong class shield to compensate for that
You can't just compare classes like this.... but you do it anyway, because you have 0 insight for how classes are supposed to work and nothing will change your mind, you're too stubborn. Hardened ward offers 8-12k 13k max shield (only if you exploit) depending on your Magicka ! Get your facts straight

Darnathian wrote: »

I don't hate sorcs. I hate sorcs that are not reasonable. Unfortunately ZOS does not distinguish between PVE and pvp as you know. So it will be a buff in pvp as well. So like I said buff sorcs

Most of all I hate imbalance and love the underdog. Hence why I play my dk and not my nb or sorc

Wrong again. Zenimax made clever buffs to Sorcerer dps. Where did Lightning splash interfere with PvP in a serious manner ? It did not. Could you.... could you please think a few seconds until starting to shout out your "facts" as you call it ? Or could you just play the game ? Seems like you've only played one class, so don't try arguing with me.

Oh and what survival tools? Put your money where your mouth is. Gdb? Nerfed. Scales? Nerfed. Igneous shield? Nerfed.

So what survival tools are left? Let alone compare to a 18k class shield.

Dracane · August 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Buff sorcs! Takes 1.4 seconds to kill. That is game breaking!

Spare us with your sabotage attempt, we all know you hate Sorcerers.
We're discussing about PvE changes here.

You mean like you do with saying healing ward is the problem? Not hardened wards that do 18k? So funny. But a dk tank shield does 6k on a good day. Yes I will keep stating facts

Yea because you have no clue about the game, simple as that. Don't want to be harsh, but you're the only person on this forum destroying my nerves with your unreasonable arguments.

A DK has might survival tools,a Sorcerer only has Bolt Escape, which got nerfed hard. That's why he has a strong class shield to compensate for that
You can't just compare classes like this.... but you do it anyway, because you have 0 insight for how classes are supposed to work and nothing will change your mind, you're too stubborn.

Darnathian wrote: »

I don't hate sorcs. I hate sorcs that are not reasonable. Unfortunately ZOS does not distinguish between PVE and pvp as you know. So it will be a buff in pvp as well. So like I said buff sorcs

Most of all I hate imbalance and love the underdog. Hence why I play my dk and not my nb or sorc

Wrong again. Zenimax made clever buffs to Sorcerer dps. Where did Lightning splash interfere with PvP in a serious manner ? It did not. Could you.... could you please think a few seconds until starting to shout out your "facts" as you call it ? Or could you just play the game ? Seems like you've only played one class, so don't try arguing with me.

I will the second you do. Do you deny that sorcs get a 18k spammable shield? Do you really believe that healing ward is the problem?

18k class shield and rising with cp points. That is a fact

The only fact here, is that your mind is filled with wrong informations.
Not even on live, average Sorcerers have 18k Hardened ward. It would require you to have bound armor and magelight at the same and pets. Good luck making a playable build with 3 or 4 toggles.

And as I said above, Hardened ward is somewhere between 8-12k with the next update.
And yes, Healing Ward IS the problem and pretty much everyone agrees, that Healing ward is freaking op.

Darnathian · August 2015

Don't take my word for it. Fine. How about Ezareths? Very respected player. Won't even play his. Easy mode right now. Tank with 30 k shields, 2k spell power, and 30k+ magika. That is the norm now for sorcs.

How about those facts?

Dracane · August 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Buff sorcs! Takes 1.4 seconds to kill. That is game breaking!

Spare us with your sabotage attempt, we all know you hate Sorcerers.
We're discussing about PvE changes here.

You mean like you do with saying healing ward is the problem? Not hardened wards that do 18k? So funny. But a dk tank shield does 6k on a good day. Yes I will keep stating facts

Yea because you have no clue about the game, simple as that. Don't want to be harsh, but you're the only person on this forum destroying my nerves with your unreasonable arguments.

A DK has mighty survival tools,a Sorcerer only has Bolt Escape, which got nerfed hard. That's why he has a strong class shield to compensate for that
You can't just compare classes like this.... but you do it anyway, because you have 0 insight for how classes are supposed to work and nothing will change your mind, you're too stubborn. Hardened ward offers 8-12k 13k max shield (only if you exploit) depending on your Magicka ! Get your facts straight

Darnathian wrote: »

I don't hate sorcs. I hate sorcs that are not reasonable. Unfortunately ZOS does not distinguish between PVE and pvp as you know. So it will be a buff in pvp as well. So like I said buff sorcs

Most of all I hate imbalance and love the underdog. Hence why I play my dk and not my nb or sorc

Wrong again. Zenimax made clever buffs to Sorcerer dps. Where did Lightning splash interfere with PvP in a serious manner ? It did not. Could you.... could you please think a few seconds until starting to shout out your "facts" as you call it ? Or could you just play the game ? Seems like you've only played one class, so don't try arguing with me.

Oh and what survival tools? Put your money where your mouth is. Gdb? Nerfed. Scales? Nerfed. Igneous shield? Nerfed.

So what survival tools are left? Let alone compare to a 18k class shield.

You're nothing but another QQ guy who wants Sorcerer to be free AP, so that even you can kill them. I'm sure you're a full health tank who is wondering, that he can't kill anyone. Leave me alone already, unbelieveable. I want all classes to be balanced, I'm playing all 4 classes and I want all classes to be viable. But Sorcerer is my worried child in pve and Sorcerers need love here, no doubt.

Jar_Ek · August 2015

@Darnathian

If you love underdogs, then play a stamina sorcerer.
And atm we are trying to discuss ways to improve sorcerers such that if/when sorcerer shields are reduced and bolt escape is further nerfed, we have some tools to use to survive. Hence ways to make Bound Armour worth slotting, and alternative methods of dps-ing, rather than the current crystal shards..

Darnathian · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Buff sorcs! Takes 1.4 seconds to kill. That is game breaking!

Spare us with your sabotage attempt, we all know you hate Sorcerers.
We're discussing about PvE changes here.

You mean like you do with saying healing ward is the problem? Not hardened wards that do 18k? So funny. But a dk tank shield does 6k on a good day. Yes I will keep stating facts

Yea because you have no clue about the game, simple as that. Don't want to be harsh, but you're the only person on this forum destroying my nerves with your unreasonable arguments.

A DK has might survival tools,a Sorcerer only has Bolt Escape, which got nerfed hard. That's why he has a strong class shield to compensate for that
You can't just compare classes like this.... but you do it anyway, because you have 0 insight for how classes are supposed to work and nothing will change your mind, you're too stubborn.

Darnathian wrote: »

I don't hate sorcs. I hate sorcs that are not reasonable. Unfortunately ZOS does not distinguish between PVE and pvp as you know. So it will be a buff in pvp as well. So like I said buff sorcs

Most of all I hate imbalance and love the underdog. Hence why I play my dk and not my nb or sorc

Wrong again. Zenimax made clever buffs to Sorcerer dps. Where did Lightning splash interfere with PvP in a serious manner ? It did not. Could you.... could you please think a few seconds until starting to shout out your "facts" as you call it ? Or could you just play the game ? Seems like you've only played one class, so don't try arguing with me.

I will the second you do. Do you deny that sorcs get a 18k spammable shield? Do you really believe that healing ward is the problem?

18k class shield and rising with cp points. That is a fact

The only fact here, is that your mind is filled with wrong informations.
Not even on live, average Sorcerers have 18k Hardened ward. It would require you to have bound armor and magelight at the same and pets. Good luck making a playable build with 3 or 4 toggles.

And as I said above, Hardened ward is somewhere between 8-12k with the next update.
And yes, Healing Ward IS the problem and pretty much everyone agrees, that Healing ward is freaking op.

Omg. Healing ward is for everyone. Cancels each other's out.

Do you hear yourself right now? 8-12k after next patch with nerf? That is higher than igneous shield now. Lol. You are completely off you rocker.

Pretty much everyone? Who besides sorcs? Nice try. You try to speak for people and fail at it. Read the forums. Can't argue numbers. You literally just quantified why they are OP. You're words not mine.

This is why defendants don't take the witness stand. Good job