Come on ZoS, look at all the posts! 0 Stam regen while blocking will ruin this game!

LazyLewis · August 2015

Playing this game in every class and every style since day 1 I will go down on paper and say getting rid of Stam Regen while blocking will destroy this game and is the biggest nerf this game has ever faced. PvE and PvP both. Look at all the forums posts, look at everything everyone has being say since PTS was released. Please please don't do this.

xaraan · August 2015

I'm agreeing with LazyLewis.

If that doesn't tell you something, nothing will.

Forestd16b14_ESO · August 2015

Then ZoS needs to get rid of block casting. It's either no block casting or no stamina regen simple as that.

Lord_Hev · August 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Then ZoS needs to get rid of block casting. It's either no block casting or no stamina regen simple as that.

No, it is not as simple as that. Not with the way this game is "balanced" currently.

MCMancub · August 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Then ZoS needs to get rid of block casting. It's either no block casting or no stamina regen simple as that.

Block casting is actually a good mechanic for PvE DPS. You can't just say "nerf this to the ground and it'll solve all issues", because it won't. The problem was stamina tanks having literally no playstyle in PvE other than holding block for the entire duration of a fight.

EDIT: Eliminating stam regen while blocking may end up not being the best solution (though several end game PvE guilds have confirmed that it is still very possible to do all end game content), but at least they're trying something to fix the problem. I give them an A+ for effort.

angelyn · August 2015

MCMancub wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Then ZoS needs to get rid of block casting. It's either no block casting or no stamina regen simple as that.

Block casting is actually a good mechanic for PvE DPS.

This is a good point. Some people may immediately say that as dps/healer any time spent blocking is less healing/dps and that would be correct. However in PVE:

There are instances where any type of role(healer/dps/tank) will need to block. (Sometimes all at the same time)Especially when there are millions of extra mobs swarming about and the tank may be occupied keeping a bigger target er..occupied.Or for instance when the boss throws out a massive spell that you die from unless you block.

Some people might think this won't affect healers or dps but it might:
- If you are using stamina for healing/dps ,you will now not have the Regen during those instances when you have to block certain mechanics. This means you have less stamina to heal or dps after you blocked (compared to before)
- If you are using magicka for healing/dps it is likely most of your points will be in magicka,making your stamina pool tiny. Therefore, you may only be able to block for less time than before before you run out. Say you block a massive spell from a boss (which your tank is tanking )- it chews up all your stamina from your tiny pool, then you have none left when the multiple lesser mobs converge on you..

0 stamina regen is a ridiculous idea in PVE (to me). I don't know how tanks will manage. This change will affect them the most, but it will affect the rest of the group too. ZOS have ensured this with their unique threat/aggro system. The mobs are programmed to go after people other than the tank every now and then. They also ensured that sometimes all players have to block at once,or press a synergy etc. I think anyone who thinks tanks just stand there and holds block might be mistaken.

And as @MCMancub has said,block casting is a useful thing in PVE. If they stop that you might see some healing/dps go down. ZOS have even thrown in person based AOE S like Impulse ,which require the caster to be in the middle of a bunch of enemies in order to work.

Therefore, regeneration of stamina and casting while blocking needs to stay in PVE. Sure, perhaps top players will be able to adapt , but most of the rest of us average Joes will find it very difficult and probably very frustrating.

The solution is to make a pvp change only. However, I' don't know if 0 stamina while blocking is the solution for pvp. I'm no expert there, but I would certainly be annoyed if say I was a PVE tank type build getting no stamina in PVP. I think ZOS have said before that you shouldn't need to create an entirely new build/new gear to be able to switch between PVE and PVP.

And if anyone does think current tanking is boring as Zos said, I reckon it will be even worse because tanks will be saving their stamina and doling it out in tiny bits. Tanking might end up being more boring with the 0 regen because tanks won't have any stamina spare to do anything other than press one button (block).

Surely ZOS can come up with a solution for PVP(if that is the problem) and leave PVE as is. If anyone wants to spice things up in PVE maybe just don't block like someone said in another thread or ZOS could look into spicing it up (without affecting the entire playerbase)

These are just my personal views on this. Basically there should be some solution to whatever the issue is, that doesn't affect areas that are not part of the issue.

Average( possibly leaning to atrocious) PVE person

@ZOS_RichLambert how about a /lurk here

Gilvoth · August 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Then ZoS needs to get rid of block casting. It's either no block casting or no stamina regen simple as that.

the comment i quoted is correct and the only answer.
it will also give us stamina nightblades a chance to get atleast 30% of a fight in (instead of 1%) before killed by constant block spaming dragonights and sorcerers and templars.

Fat_Cat45 · August 2015

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Then ZoS needs to get rid of block casting. It's either no block casting or no stamina regen simple as that.

the comment i quoted is correct and the only answer.
it will also give us stamina nightblades a chance to get atleast 30% of a fight in (instead of 1%) before killed by constant block spaming dragonights and sorcerers and templars.

A proposed solution is to put the 0% stam regen for blocking attached to the Battle Spirit buff. But then ZOS also stated that PvE tanking was too much of holding block, so they wanted to change that as well.

Possibly 0% stam regen with the Battle Spirit buff, and 50% reduction elsewhere? Because I do agree that full 100% stamina recovery while blocking does make some PvE content very easy for sustaining block on a tank (especially with no softcap for stamina regen).

sabresandiego_ESO · August 2015

Learn to adapt to an improved game. Holding block forever was incredibly dumb and it will never come back. Thankfully

Ferretstalker · August 2015

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Learn to adapt to an improved game. Holding block forever was incredibly dumb and it will never come back. Thankfully

Nothing has changed except the stamina regen. All content is still the same. Which begs the question of how tanking was supposed to be done, since clearly the meta sprang up for a reason.

Lionxoft · August 2015

The lack of stamina regen while blocking is one of the top 5 best major design changes. If you can't play without holding block for days then it's a huge L2P.

olemanwinter · August 2015

Lionxoft wrote: »

The lack of stamina regen while blocking is one of the top 5 best major design changes. If you can't play without holding block for days then it's a huge L2P.

The lack of stamina regen while blocking is one of the top 5 worst major design changes. If you thought that tanking before this change was boring then you weren't half the tank you could have been and it's a huge L2P.

Personofsecrets · August 2015

Lionxoft wrote: »

The lack of stamina regen while blocking is one of the top 5 best major design changes. If you can't play without holding block for days then it's a huge L2P.

What makes the change good?

Lionxoft · August 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

The lack of stamina regen while blocking is one of the top 5 best major design changes. If you can't play without holding block for days then it's a huge L2P.

The lack of stamina regen while blocking is one of the top 5 worst major design changes. If you thought that tanking before this change was boring then you weren't half the tank you could have been and it's a huge L2P.

If you can't tank with these changes then you're a pretty poor player. I have no problem with stamina that isn't alleviated or solved by set bonuses, potions, timing or abilities.

Seriously, L2P.

Lionxoft · August 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

The lack of stamina regen while blocking is one of the top 5 best major design changes. If you can't play without holding block for days then it's a huge L2P.

What makes the change good?

I think it's fairly obvious. It forces tanks to actually be a part of the game instead of taping down RMB. It forces them to solve how they will return their resources.

Just a side story of where I've seen a similar mechanic change. I remember when DC Universe Online implemented PvP counter mechanics where bosses could break your block, knock you down and do massive damage if you were blocking at the wrong time or too long. Before that change tanks would spend more than 90% of the time in raids just holding block for the exact same reasons tanks hold block in ESO. It was grab aggro->block. Rinse and repeat. This new change encourages active gameplay or clever use of game mechanics to overcome. There's certainly nothing wrong with that but people complained like it was the end of the world. Same story here. You'll get over it eventually or you'll just stop playing the game because it was too hard for you.

Love this change. A++

Wisler89 · August 2015

A question for all those who say 0 stam regen is a good change: have you ever tanked trials or vdsa? If yes, how do you expect an average or below average group to ever complete a dungeon or trial or dsa? If no, your comments are extremly unhelpful, seriously.

Lionxoft · August 2015

Wisler89 wrote: »

A question for all those who say 0 stam regen is a good change: have you ever tanked trials or vdsa? If yes, how do you expect an average or below average group to ever complete a dungeon or trial or dsa? If no, your comments are extremly unhelpful, seriously.

Average groups shouldn't be completing veteran content without challenge. There is no problem with this.

Love the change. A++

Bashev · August 2015

Lionxoft wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

The lack of stamina regen while blocking is one of the top 5 best major design changes. If you can't play without holding block for days then it's a huge L2P.

What makes the change good?

I think it's fairly obvious. It forces tanks to actually be a part of the game instead of taping down RMB. It forces them to solve how they will return their resources.

Just a side story of where I've seen a similar mechanic change. I remember when DC Universe Online implemented PvP counter mechanics where bosses could break your block, knock you down and do massive damage if you were blocking at the wrong time or too long. Before that change tanks would spend more than 90% of the time in raids just holding block for the exact same reasons tanks hold block in ESO. It was grab aggro->block. Rinse and repeat. This new change encourages active gameplay or clever use of game mechanics to overcome. There's certainly nothing wrong with that but people complained like it was the end of the world. Same story here. You'll get over it eventually or you'll just stop playing the game because it was too hard for you.

Love this change. A++

If a tank has to take care for their resources why then DPS and Healers should spam their skills all day without thing about any resource management? Before the soft caps every magicka dps used spell symmetry. Now nobody uses this skill anymore.
If ZoS make a change after casting a magicka skill next 2 seconds you dont regen magicka (the same for a stamina skill) and all the other players start writing L2P it is not a big deal. How will you feel? You will be still able to recover resources with heavy attacks and synergies. It will be doable but you will not enjoy the game the same way as you enjoy it now.

Rinmaethodain · August 2015

PVPer + "Love this change. A++ " totally no personal gains in supporting unjustified ubernerf

People who have no idea about tanking and never tanked in their life are repeating same lie over and over again "oh noe tanking is boring, now it will be fun and you will have to work with boss mechanics, tanking is too easy"

They are trying to make tanks scapegoats of ESO. They blame tanks for their boring and repetitive dungeon runs. They are wrong.

If they insist on keep repeating the lie that "tanking and dungeon runs" are boring they should get their facts straight and stick their head out of whatever bag they keep it.

If they insist on claiming that "tanking got too easy and runs are boring" then the tanks are NOT at fault.
The fault is with OP DPSes who can burn everything and they let tank to "hold'n'block" to wait it out. #NerfAllDPS #DPSareOP

This change encourages active gameplay?

This is active gameplay, in current live game, where tanks have proper respect and they are allowed to do what they are meant to do. Be able to block.

This is active gameplay, in any dungeon run with normal group of people, not the specially selected 1% group of friends, with OP DPS builds, perfect weapons, set of skills with every exploit memorised and cookie cutter builds copied from video tutorials after one year of playing game:
- tanks block, tanks sprint to kite some enemies and position them properly, tanks roll to get fast from big AOE or get quickly to other enemies, tanks help getting group up if people start dying because they do what they are meant to be, be the last one to die - blocking? eats stamina, sprinting? eats stamina, rolling? eats stamina, taunting? eats stamina, shield bash? eats stamina and counts as blocking

This is the gameplay for tanks after ZOS decides to put this unjustified nerf into live game:
- tanks block, tanks.... block, tanks... block and watch their stamina bar go to 0, tanks die

this is supposed to be "active" gameplay? tanks will be forced to just block and watch stamina bar. Tank want to run out of AOE? No sprint, no roll - stamina out. Tank wants to taunt? Too bad, your stamina just ran out from blocking. Want to shield bash to interrupt that attack that will either heal boss for 1/4 of his hp or insta kill party member? Sorry bro, you are out of stamina and shield bash will block your regen timer.

Also lol at people who are throwing out "just eat a shard" or "heavy attack". "Play as you want, but if you want to be healer then only templar. But remember you play any way you want". And good luck throwing in heavy attack, standing vulnerable for 3 second, while being attacked by multiple enemies at different intervals.

NO ONE EVER COMPLAINS that they successfully completed a dungeon and didnt get wiped out because tank had enough stamina to block attack coming at him, healer could focus on dungeon, not on mashing heal buttons, and group didnt get wiped out because most dangerous attack could be interrupted by tank.

The only people who support this change are obviously PVPers who are angry at tanks for being... tanky and not dying like fleas from every poke they get,
or they are seasoned players, the perfect 1% who are suprised that after year of playing game and repeating content they suddenly find it boring or easy, so in the peak of their selfishness they are supporting a change that will make content unplayable for the majority of playerbase, while they will maintain their superiority - a simple logic, they want less competition so when their

Also, a quick idea. I think ZOS should make forum accounts somehow linked to character account. So next to your post, it would display for example highest PVP rank out of all characters on account and classes of characters. A dedicated PVPer should not be allowed to complain and bash people who are against change that ruins PVE. A person who completed every dungeon 100 times + should not be allowed to complain that "old content is too easy".
A simple thing like that would reveal who actually is for this change (And then what selfish motives are driving them) and who actually cares for it and his feedback is viable.
Same should go to in game /feedback, whoever processes it should have information along the feedback, what is player profile of person who sends it.

Arvs · August 2015

To the people claiming this is a L2P issue and tanks should learn more than to just hold down block, the best tanks don't just sit down and hold block. Top tier tanks now have evolved into doing DPS and/or Heals while tanking, the change into stam regen makes such things impossible. You can no longer tank in Light Armor, you can't do it while throwing out skills to add DPS to your group as tank, this makes tanking even less interactive, now you have to conserve every bit of stamina you have and are unable to actually use abilities. With this change it is now virtually impossible to DPS/Tank Veteran Dragonstar as well as attempting to Tank/Heal it. Sure, you can go full tank for such, but the whole purpose of this change is to make Tanking more fun and interactive (or so they said) and they're doing the exact opposite of such.

Ryuho · August 2015

Reduce stam regen while blocking by 50% and should be okey..

WRX · August 2015

I prefer this change, and it seems to be fairly balanced from what I have seen. Most PvEers I know have 0 issue with the new content, especially with the new regen enchants available.

Bashev · August 2015

WRX wrote: »

I prefer this change, and it seems to be fairly balanced from what I have seen. Most PvEers I know have 0 issue with the new content, especially with the new regen enchants available.

And how a regen enchant helps?

Rinmaethodain · August 2015

Apparently the X stamina regen that still becomes 0 while blocking works like placebo effect.

WRX · August 2015

Bashev wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I prefer this change, and it seems to be fairly balanced from what I have seen. Most PvEers I know have 0 issue with the new content, especially with the new regen enchants available.

And how a regen enchant helps?

It is possible to lay off that middle finger on the mouse.

Block when you need to.

Dracane · August 2015

Zenimax, please revert the stamina block change. Make PvP tanks unkillable with the damage mitigation of 1.7 on top of that. This will be sooo healthy for the game and will make pvp fights so exciting, everyone loves 30+ minutes fight against permablocking turtles. Make them even more unkillable than they are on the live server. Let them forget all their skill, because all you have to do is stacking health and holding down one mouse button all day long to become unkillable. Beautiful

Rinmaethodain · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Zenimax, please revert the stamina block change. Make PvP tanks unkillable with the damage mitigation of 1.7 on top of that. This will be sooo healthy for the game and will make pvp fights so exciting, everyone loves 30+ minutes fight against permablocking turtles. Make them even more unkillable than they are on the live server.

Another person who thinks that PVP is only part of game

Dracane · August 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Zenimax, please revert the stamina block change. Make PvP tanks unkillable with the damage mitigation of 1.7 on top of that. This will be sooo healthy for the game and will make pvp fights so exciting, everyone loves 30+ minutes fight against permablocking turtles. Make them even more unkillable than they are on the live server.

Another person who thinks that PVP is only part of game

That's why there is a simple solution. First off, thanks for knowing what I'm thinking. Even though I love pve and these days, I'm playing more pve than pvp.

If so many people feel overwhelmed by this change, then the only solution is to implement this block change into the Battlespirit pvp buff. Would be very sad to have this reverted in pve, but well.

Birdovic · August 2015

MCMancub wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Then ZoS needs to get rid of block casting. It's either no block casting or no stamina regen simple as that.

Block casting is actually a good mechanic for PvE DPS. You can't just say "nerf this to the ground and it'll solve all issues", because it won't. The problem was stamina tanks having literally no playstyle in PvE other than holding block for the entire duration of a fight.

EDIT: Eliminating stam regen while blocking may end up not being the best solution (though several end game PvE guilds have confirmed that it is still very possible to do all end game content), but at least they're trying something to fix the problem. I give them an A+ for effort.

This exactly reflect my opinion, couldnt agree more.

Lionxoft wrote: »

Wisler89 wrote: »

A question for all those who say 0 stam regen is a good change: have you ever tanked trials or vdsa? If yes, how do you expect an average or below average group to ever complete a dungeon or trial or dsa? If no, your comments are extremly unhelpful, seriously.

Average groups shouldn't be completing veteran content without challenge. There is no problem with this.

Love the change. A++

As long only average players got issues with completing vet dungeons/vetdsa/Trials, thats totally fine to me. With some practice they can manage and no more be "average"

How boring was this game if there was not atleast some challenge included^^

Lionxoft · August 2015

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Wisler89 wrote: »

A question for all those who say 0 stam regen is a good change: have you ever tanked trials or vdsa? If yes, how do you expect an average or below average group to ever complete a dungeon or trial or dsa? If no, your comments are extremly unhelpful, seriously.

Average groups shouldn't be completing veteran content without challenge. There is no problem with this.

Love the change. A++

As long only average players got issues with completing vet dungeons/vetdsa/Trials, thats totally fine to me. With some practice they can manage and no more be "average"
How boring was this game if there was not atleast some challenge included^^

My point exactly. There are a lot of average chumps in this thread complaining without trying to actually tackle the challenge.

Rinmaethodain · August 2015

Lionxoft wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Wisler89 wrote: »

A question for all those who say 0 stam regen is a good change: have you ever tanked trials or vdsa? If yes, how do you expect an average or below average group to ever complete a dungeon or trial or dsa? If no, your comments are extremly unhelpful, seriously.

Average groups shouldn't be completing veteran content without challenge. There is no problem with this.

Love the change. A++

As long only average players got issues with completing vet dungeons/vetdsa/Trials, thats totally fine to me. With some practice they can manage and no more be "average"
How boring was this game if there was not atleast some challenge included^^

My point exactly. There are a lot of average chumps in this thread complaining without trying to actually tackle the challenge.

So just because someone is average, he doesn't have right to express his opinion on controversial ubernerf to stamina regen? Just because he is average he is not allowed to complete vet dungeons? Elitist complex much? The 1% strikes back.
You want feel special? Ask ZOS for harder content. Unless you want feel "im the only one to finish vet banished cells" special after you back-pat ZOS on every unjustified nerf to cripple PVE tanks.