IC feedback. Whats working/not working so far

Aunatar · August 2015

AssaultLemming wrote: »

Komma wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

9.I think cloak might need a penalty like streak does. IC is NB heaven. putting a +50% cost for consecutive uses within 4 secs might do the trick. Its pretty op as it is. NB's can just sprint through mobs easily and focus the aggro on you.

You need to separate the magicka NB with the stamina NB. With roll dodge already being nerfed to the extreme a move like this would be the death of Stamina NB in pvp and maybe even kill off most magicka NB's.

It already doesnt work all the time as it is. Add that cost and you may as well remove the skill from the game. It doesn't stun or do dmg like bolt escape so dont even compare it to that.

Stam NB's took plenty of hits this round so please consider all the issues before asking for something like this.

Yah, as a stam nb currently I can only cloak 4 times, less if I want to also cast anything else such as double take. Magicka nb do feel ridiculously op with their ability to infinite cloak though. If it stays like this it's hard to see why I would stay stam, cloak and concealed weapon are all you need to stealth kill to victory...

I can cloak 8-9 times in a row with my veteran SEVEN stamblade nightblade, in combat, with a single magicka regen bonus. Please stop providing misinformation for your own profit.

AssaultLemming · August 2015

Aunatar wrote: »

AssaultLemming wrote: »

Komma wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

9.I think cloak might need a penalty like streak does. IC is NB heaven. putting a +50% cost for consecutive uses within 4 secs might do the trick. Its pretty op as it is. NB's can just sprint through mobs easily and focus the aggro on you.

You need to separate the magicka NB with the stamina NB. With roll dodge already being nerfed to the extreme a move like this would be the death of Stamina NB in pvp and maybe even kill off most magicka NB's.

It already doesnt work all the time as it is. Add that cost and you may as well remove the skill from the game. It doesn't stun or do dmg like bolt escape so dont even compare it to that.

Stam NB's took plenty of hits this round so please consider all the issues before asking for something like this.

Yah, as a stam nb currently I can only cloak 4 times, less if I want to also cast anything else such as double take. Magicka nb do feel ridiculously op with their ability to infinite cloak though. If it stays like this it's hard to see why I would stay stam, cloak and concealed weapon are all you need to stealth kill to victory...

I can cloak 8-9 times in a row with my veteran SEVEN stamblade nightblade, in combat, with a single magicka regen bonus. Please stop providing misinformation for your own profit.

Good for you. I don't know what you mean by a single magicka regen bonus though, please be more specific. Do you mean regen food? I get 4 cloaks out of my character, maybe 5 if I eat purple food.

InsidiousMagnus · August 2015

I really like the IC with all the changes and especially the armors. But with the concerning the armor motifs. Right now you can only make the Glass & Imperial/Deadric armor but it would be really cool if you could also make the Daggerfall Armor, Pact Armor and the Dominion armor. I realize these armor's are to signify that they are Tel Var armor's but some of us will not get Tel Var armor but we still like the armor styles. its just a thought but either way the IC is still amazing!

ZOS_RyanRuzich · August 2015

~ninja stealth lurk on~

In all seriousness, for things that are broken, detailed reproduction steps help tremendously. Video capture is also super helpful to make sure everyone's on the same page.

rodderstheangry · August 2015

@Vatter

I don't think Dark Cloak needs a nerf, that is all NB's have left! I say let it play out for a while and see how it goes, no? Other then that great feedback. Just hating all the nerf calls all the time. Peace

gilbegger · August 2015

Making "Dark Cloak" cost more.... along the lines of Sorc 's bolt and the dodging cost makes sense. And yes my main is NB.

Maulkin · August 2015

Guys, regarding armor penetration:
Stop saying that they need to make it a % instead of a flat value. It already is a %

sharpened%20maces_zpsf8znbklr.jpg

- The Piercing passive from Ritual Champion tree maxes at 25%
- 2 Maces should provide 10% + 10% = 20% from Twin Blade and Blunt. Same as 1 Maul based on Heavy weapons passive. 20%
- If sharpened and legendary they should also penetrate another 14%

Maximum penetration (with armor debuff skills) is 59%. That is a per cent.

However something goes horribly wrong when Twin Blade and Blunt or Heavy Weapons passives stack with Sharpened. The penetration ends up above 100%. Because if it didn't you wouldn't hit 28k Armor targets as if they wore nothing, they would still have 11k left at worst case and mitigate around ~17% of the damage.

Sharpened Axes don't penetrate all armor. Non-trait maces don't penetrate all armor. Sharpened maces do. So to me it seems obvious it has to do with how the two passives stack.

Stalwart385 · August 2015

Vatter wrote: »

5. I love the no stamina regen while blocking. Its fantastic to not see dk or nb tanks just running around nuking everyone and everything while infinitely blocking. This game is just too easy as it is so having to pve tank with these changes should add some spice.

I think the blcoking nerf was overkill. Heavy armor tanks nuking people is a myth. Watch streams of heavy armor DK tanks in PvP. They run around trying to stay alive, being lucky if they finish off a kill. People were frustrated they were hard to kill, that was the only issue. You are not going to be nearly as effective, damage wise, in heavy armor with S&B. The passives just aren't there.

Nerf perma-blocking in PvP, sure I don't have an issue with that. Not that it is a big issue. Nerfing blocking so that it effects PvE tanks and situational blocking is overkill. Along with adding nothing to balance the power, tanks everywhere took an unnecessarily big hit.

Kartalin · August 2015

I noticed yesterday that using Piercing Mark against NPCs in Imperial City was causing them to be immune to attack, meaning that when I would go for an ambush to start combat the skill simply would not happen. Or I'd go up behind and try to heavy attack to initiate combat and it would miss even when I was right on top of the npc. After a few seconds it'd start to work again. This may or may not have caused the crashing issues I was having at the same time.

Piercing Mark seemed to have no trouble against players.

Stalwart385 · August 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Guys, regarding armor penetration:
Stop saying that they need to make it a % instead of a flat value. It already is a %

- The Piercing passive from Ritual Champion tree maxes at 25%
- 2 Maces should provide 10% + 10% = 20% from Twin Blade and Blunt. Same as 1 Maul based on Heavy weapons passive. 20%
- If sharpened and legendary they should also penetrate another 14%

Maximum penetration (with armor debuff skills) is 59%. That is a per cent.

However something goes horribly wrong when Twin Blade and Blunt or Heavy Weapons passives stack with Sharpened. The penetration ends up above 100%. Because if it didn't you wouldn't hit 28k Armor targets as if they wore nothing, they would still have 11k left at worst case and mitigate around ~17% of the damage.

Sharpened Axes don't penetrate all armor. Non-trait maces don't penetrate all armor. Sharpened maces do. So to me it seems obvious it has to do with how the two passives stack.

From what I've heard, the issue is some things do stack flat values when they shouldn't. People have up 50k armor pen because of this. It's an issue of assuming what the the tooltip says is right versus actually testing it.

This should be fixed in the next PTS patch.

Vatter · August 2015

Not sure if this is intended but skills that provide +8% healing are giving base heals a huge boost.
Heal at 5k. pop a +8% skill and get 7k heals.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2015

Porting directly into the PvE dungeons from outside Cyrodiil does not seem to work. Infinite loading screens. I assume this is tied in to the combo check for campaign entry and entry into the dungeon.

Also, can't port inside from the two entry gates of your Alliance. This is asinine, as you're heading to a PvE dungeon within Cyrodiil. A simple walk to the wayshrine will allow you to port without issue (still in Cyrodiil, still at the Alliance entry points).

MCMancub · August 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Guys, regarding armor penetration:
Stop saying that they need to make it a % instead of a flat value. It already is a %

- The Piercing passive from Ritual Champion tree maxes at 25%
- 2 Maces should provide 10% + 10% = 20% from Twin Blade and Blunt. Same as 1 Maul based on Heavy weapons passive. 20%
- If sharpened and legendary they should also penetrate another 14%

Maximum penetration (with armor debuff skills) is 59%. That is a per cent.

However something goes horribly wrong when Twin Blade and Blunt or Heavy Weapons passives stack with Sharpened. The penetration ends up above 100%. Because if it didn't you wouldn't hit 28k Armor targets as if they wore nothing, they would still have 11k left at worst case and mitigate around ~17% of the damage.

Sharpened Axes don't penetrate all armor. Non-trait maces don't penetrate all armor. Sharpened maces do. So to me it seems obvious it has to do with how the two passives stack.

It's a percentage based on a flat value. I can open my character pane and see the exact amount of armor I will shred. It's the same against all targets. Essentially everyone gets X penetration. Gaining an extra 10% means you will ignore X * 1.10 armor.

The way it should work is a percentage based on the armor of the target you're attacking. Everyone gets X% armor penetration. Attacking a target will reduce their armor by X% before damage, not by a flat amount.

MCMancub · August 2015

Vatter wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

Again with the "counter" thing? Ok, if you think everything needs a counter, provide some balance, then. How is it possible that stacking 7 reinforced heavy armor parts is completely countered by a simple trait on 2 weapons? A trait which is useful not only on heavy armor, but on everything else, also mobs and bosses? And it's still 7 pieces vs 2. Come on, be serious.

Because the implementation of said counter is not correct. As I've stated above (I have to repeat myself quite frequently on these forums due to incompetence, it seems), the system should be based on a percentage value, not flat value.

How is it possible that stacking 7 reinforced heavy armor parts is completely countered by a simple trait on 2 weapons?

2 traits shouldn't shred every part of a 7 piece armor set (again, percentage based values are needed), but you're being incredibly obtuse if you think nothing should counter you by stacking 7 pieces of reinforced armor. Even if the values were percentage based, you'd still be whining that armor isn't a catch-all-to-win stat. The day tanks can stack armor/spell resist and nothing else and never die is the day ESO dies. The best genre of games to look to for these combat mechanics, surprisingly, are MOBAs, as every part of a MOBA revolves around combat balancing these 3 fundamental traits: health, damage, and mitigation.

EDIT: Again, I'm not saying the implementation is correct, but these are all equivalent, at least in theory.
1. "How is it possible that stacking armor is completely countered by people stacking armor penetration?"
2. "How is it possible that stacking armor penetration is completely countered by people stacking health?"
3. "How is it possible that stacking health is completely countered by people stacking damage?"
4. "How is it possible that stacking damage is completely countered by people stacking armor?"

There should always be a counter. I'm not saying ZOS has implemented any of these stats perfectly (I think they're all relatively in an OK position), but this is the principle that should be followed.

You have completely missed a very fundamental point on heavy armor. The entire purpose to wearing heavy armor in eso is to MITIGATE PHYSICAL DAMAGE. By wearing nothing but heavy armor you are sacrificing other stats that light armor and med armor give IN ORDER TO TAKE LESS PHYSICAL DAMAGE. THATS THE COUNTER TO IT. YOU DO LESS DAMAGE, AND HAVE LESS REGEN. look at the passives you get for equipping heavy. Having an ability to completely reduce armor to 0 when the whole point of the design is to give you some protection at the expense of other stats is not balanced.

The counter to wearing heavy armor isn't the downsides that come with it. That's not a counter. That's simply balance. Stacking damage means you have less resistances, and visa versa.

The fact that you have so many "agree" badges shows there is a serious lack of understanding the difference between physical damage and armor penetration in the community, and that's a bad sign.

If I attack you for 10,000 physical damage with no armor penetration and you have, say, 30% mitigation, you will take 7,000 damage. If I attack you for 10,000 physical damage with 10% armor penetration and have you, again, 30% mitigation, you will lose 10% of that 30% mitigation and be left to only mitigate 27% of that physical damage and take 7,300 damage instead of 7,000. This isn't exactly correct, since mitigation percent is not linear in this game, but it's not meant for accuracy, just for example. Look here to see the actual armor formula. In other words if I have 10% armor penetration, it shouldn't remove 3% from 30%. It should remove 10% from your total physical resistance and then mitigation is calculated based on the remaining value.

This is not the way it currently works (as far as I can tell with several addons showing armor penetration), but this is the way it should work! Armor penetration should remove a percentage based value of the mitigation of the target.

wraith808 · August 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Not to stir the pot here, but the entire historical purpose of hammers/maces/mauls is to defeat heavy armor.

The amount of penetration might be a bit high, but that's what it was designed to do and it was extremely effective at it.

I guess that historically getting electrocuted by high voltage electricity is a one shot resulting in instant death other loss or consciousness, so we should make all lightning abilities work like that?

Using a historical basis, however, for differences between weapons is a perfectly justified stance to take. Else, why even have the different weapon types in the game?