Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
ZOS....please make non-cp campaigns......and yes I know this has been said before
-
markt84✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?
Who says anything like that now? Their "stats beat me". No one is saying a non-cp campaign will make everyone equal, that everyone will be the same class, that no one will level up, and put your non-cp armor on before you come in. Will people ALWAYS have and advantage be it gear, builds, skill, whatever? Yes, but that will only be marginal, nothing skill can't overcome. CPs on the other hand not so much. The boost isn't maginal at all, the boost is 25% on top of the "stats". Everyone knows there is a huge difference in 0 CPs and 300+ champion points. You guys that want to grind CPs all day so you can PvP at night, go ahead no one is trying to stop you. Just saying people like me want to play in a non cp-campaign.
Ok I'll provide examples:Come on dude. How crappy of a player must you be to get a 25% damage boost while taking 25% less damage while 25% more health and resources to pull from to not win most fights? Your stock pile of CPs isn't skill, it's a buff to hide behindAnd I think that your argument places way more emphasis on "skill" than there really is. The game is simple, really. The skill is just doing the right thing at the right time, which most people already do. When, due to CP, I have 20% more physical and spell resistance than you, and 20% more spell and weapon damage than you, and 20% higher stamina, magica and health pools, my skill didn't beat you, my CP did.
Both of those from this same thread and are summed up as stating "Their Stats beat me".
The stats difference from a max/min set up is not near as marginal as you assume. Take the time to figure up how much more damage a max/min player can deal as compare to the average player in a mix of Fine and Superior gear. It's much closer to 25% than you are obviously aware. For instance 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based ability.
Ahahaha what? You think 1000 CPs gives you a 3% boost in damage? Geez that's why we need a non-cp campaign, for people like you that get on here and just pretend that CPs don't make a difference. I'm a vet 4 my buddy was a level 14, a LEVEL 14, and with his stam, magic, and health boosts, he did more damage than me. So yeah there is already a system in place to make up for armor and things like that. There is NO boost to make up for cps. But feel free to continue to spew BS on this subject
Did I say 1000 CP or did I say 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based "ability" [abilities]? Clearly I said the later.
Also please show at which point I personally said CP doesn't make a difference. I have said that CP pads skill, but doesn't replace, never that it doesn't make a difference.
Under 50/VR1 a player is scaled up to a VR12 in moderate gear. After the IC update everyone under VR14, including VR1-VR13 will be scaled to that point, again with moderate gear. They are not scaled to max level and moderate gear is by no means maxed out. That is referred to as 'battle leveling' and of course it does not make up for large amounts of CP. I am not saying it does. However CP is ultimately a stat increase, and it is not the only way to gain increased stats.
In a hypothetical vet campaign without CP there will still be players with more stats than the average player. Those are players who are max level and choose to spend the effort to max/min their setups. Battle leveling again like with CP will not make up for that difference, and the difference is enough will be a deciding factor.
You want to play in a PVP campaign without having to grind anything. Well a non-CP vet campaign will not give that to. At it's core ESO is an RPG will vertical progression. It will by it's very nature reward those who to spend time grinding, unless PVP is separated in it's entirety from the rest of the game and reworked to a system with linear progression.
Will people always get upset about something they think didn't go their way and should of? Of course. But CPs are a HUGE problem in PvP, and they only people that don't want to admit that are the people that "earned" them. And I'm sorry dude, I'm not doing something that sucks to get more "power" in PvP. I don't play games to do tedious and boring things...aka grinding. I play to enjoy myself. And the grinders have a place to go PvP, and people like me want our place to go PvP. The only reason people are against this idea is because they KNOW it will be the preferred way to PvP for the masses, and they didn't grind for so many hours to fight against other grinders.....because they don't want a fair fight. And they will actually need skill to win those fights, and they didn't grind all those hours to need skill to win, just CPs.
So you make no effort to maximize your build. You only want to PVP, is that correct? Did you ever think there was more to it than just CP?
I'm not saying CP isn't an issue. It very much is, in both PVE and PVP. What I am saying is that even without CP players that choose to maximize their builds will have a great advantage. They will be able to do things like deal 25% more damage. That number sound familiar?
You will not get "fair fights" in Cyrodiil, CP or not. PVP in ESO is linked to a vertical progression system. Even without CP that is the fact of the matter. Those players who work to climb that ladder are rewarded for it with stat advantages.
I get that builds matter, no on is arguing that. I get that people are better than other skill wise, I get that. But CPs eliminate all need for skill in this game. And that's fine the game has a continuous progression, I'm not saying remove that. It's cool to play a game where you never stop progressing. I'm not saying stop any of that. I'm just saying convert campaigns that are empty into non-cp campaigns. Everyone in them still gain xp and CPs, but while ur in a non-cp campaign your CPs aren't slotted. No one has to change their builds that are only made viable with CPs, because you don't have to play in non-cp campaigns. This will make CPs a non issue. They won't need to figure out how to make a proper catchup right now, don't needs to figure out what the caps for CPs should be for now, it's takes care of all of this because people, like me, will have a place to PvP where CPs don't matter. No need for people, like me, to cry about them anymore, because we have a place to avoid them. CPs will no longer be an issue. Doing this hurts NO ONE, and makes the game more enjoyable for non-cp grinders.
Like I've said a few times, this is too easy of a fix to not do
It won't fix anything long term, players like yourself will be back to complain about other players who are better geared with better builds. You want to ignore all other aspects of the game's character progression, and blame your woes on CP. You simply cannot neglect your own character progression and expect skill to carry you through. Frankly you'll never be on the level of players who work to optimize their setups. You have to take a backseat to them or play the game in boarder strokes than just PVPing in Cyrodiil.
What I should grind for hours to get 1000 CPs to "optimize" my character, then go PvP and call it skill? I do work to optimize my character, I just refuse to grind to do it. People like you wan to hide behind CPs and call it skill
CP is not the only way to optimize your character. Gear, Abilities, Skill Points, Provisions and even Race are all part of it as well. A player has to branch out and play other parts of the game even if they just want to excel at PVP. This is an RPG, it rewards time spent on character progression. Even if CP was not in the game that would still be true.
By "grind" do you mean refuse to play anything but PVP?PvP is where this game shines IMO. If you only got better gear and a lot more xp, there would be no reason to play the main story at all. I only started playing the story because I finally hit vet1, and my dude is way too soft now my buff is gone
Do you remember saying this? You can call me unskilled all you like, I don't care. It's also not going to change the that you refuse to actually spend time developing your character and want to blame the failings of that on CP. You went in to Cyrodiil at level 10 and didn't leave to do anything else, you're suffering the consequences of that choice, and CP didn't do that to you. You did that to yourself.
Suffer the consequences of playing PvP to become better at PvP? Yeah I should fight mindless AI that have no real way to defended themselves outside of predetermined moves, over playing against actual people that can instantly defend themselves. Great point. And yes if you could get better gear in PvP there would be no reason to ever leave. But since you can't I travel from guild trader to guild trader looking for the best set armor types for my build. Not sure what point you are trying to make. The AI in the game are just stupid easy, I can stand right in front of them and kill basically any boss outside of dungeons and leave with full health. But yeah I should fight that to get better at PvP. And once non-CP campaigns come open you find me on the battlefield and we can see who is more skillful. Well once all your skill is taken away, you know the wall of CPs you hide behind
But I'm glad you have been checking up on me, not sure what you were trying to find, but if that was best you could come up with....you waisted your timeEdited by markt84 on August 10, 2015 4:01AM1 -
Dru1076✭✭✭✭I know this has been pointed out already, but here's what Brian Wheeler had to say not long ago in a very similar thread. They have heard, and I think once the Imperial City is up and running more resources might go toward to this cp free campaign idea.ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »We are still looking to add non-Champion point campaigns, but it's not easy to do as people have noted. When we have an ETA we'll post it for you all though
Relax guys...it is just a matter of time.
Sure, there are many factors affecting the results in PVP, but those claiming cp's don't make any difference are not fooling anybody. If they didn't make any difference, there would be no point to having them at all and no one would come into threads like this vigorously defending them and trying to prevent cp free campaigns.Edited by Dru1076 on August 10, 2015 4:32AMAsk not what your sweetroll can do for you....2 -
VincentBlanquin✭✭✭sure there will be no cp campaign in the future. stay tuned for 2016, after experience scrolls selling droped noticely. So the best you can do to have non cp campaign is stop buying exp scrolls and say everybody dont do that tooIrwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?
Who says anything like that now? Their "stats beat me". No one is saying a non-cp campaign will make everyone equal, that everyone will be the same class, that no one will level up, and put your non-cp armor on before you come in. Will people ALWAYS have and advantage be it gear, builds, skill, whatever? Yes, but that will only be marginal, nothing skill can't overcome. CPs on the other hand not so much. The boost isn't maginal at all, the boost is 25% on top of the "stats". Everyone knows there is a huge difference in 0 CPs and 300+ champion points. You guys that want to grind CPs all day so you can PvP at night, go ahead no one is trying to stop you. Just saying people like me want to play in a non cp-campaign.
Ok I'll provide examples:Come on dude. How crappy of a player must you be to get a 25% damage boost while taking 25% less damage while 25% more health and resources to pull from to not win most fights? Your stock pile of CPs isn't skill, it's a buff to hide behindAnd I think that your argument places way more emphasis on "skill" than there really is. The game is simple, really. The skill is just doing the right thing at the right time, which most people already do. When, due to CP, I have 20% more physical and spell resistance than you, and 20% more spell and weapon damage than you, and 20% higher stamina, magica and health pools, my skill didn't beat you, my CP did.
Both of those from this same thread and are summed up as stating "Their Stats beat me".
The stats difference from a max/min set up is not near as marginal as you assume. Take the time to figure up how much more damage a max/min player can deal as compare to the average player in a mix of Fine and Superior gear. It's much closer to 25% than you are obviously aware. For instance 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based ability.
Ahahaha what? You think 1000 CPs gives you a 3% boost in damage? Geez that's why we need a non-cp campaign, for people like you that get on here and just pretend that CPs don't make a difference. I'm a vet 4 my buddy was a level 14, a LEVEL 14, and with his stam, magic, and health boosts, he did more damage than me. So yeah there is already a system in place to make up for armor and things like that. There is NO boost to make up for cps. But feel free to continue to spew BS on this subject
Did I say 1000 CP or did I say 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based "ability" [abilities]? Clearly I said the later.
Also please show at which point I personally said CP doesn't make a difference. I have said that CP pads skill, but doesn't replace, never that it doesn't make a difference.
Under 50/VR1 a player is scaled up to a VR12 in moderate gear. After the IC update everyone under VR14, including VR1-VR13 will be scaled to that point, again with moderate gear. They are not scaled to max level and moderate gear is by no means maxed out. That is referred to as 'battle leveling' and of course it does not make up for large amounts of CP. I am not saying it does. However CP is ultimately a stat increase, and it is not the only way to gain increased stats.
In a hypothetical vet campaign without CP there will still be players with more stats than the average player. Those are players who are max level and choose to spend the effort to max/min their setups. Battle leveling again like with CP will not make up for that difference, and the difference is enough will be a deciding factor.
You want to play in a PVP campaign without having to grind anything. Well a non-CP vet campaign will not give that to. At it's core ESO is an RPG will vertical progression. It will by it's very nature reward those who to spend time grinding, unless PVP is separated in it's entirety from the rest of the game and reworked to a system with linear progression.
Will people always get upset about something they think didn't go their way and should of? Of course. But CPs are a HUGE problem in PvP, and they only people that don't want to admit that are the people that "earned" them. And I'm sorry dude, I'm not doing something that sucks to get more "power" in PvP. I don't play games to do tedious and boring things...aka grinding. I play to enjoy myself. And the grinders have a place to go PvP, and people like me want our place to go PvP. The only reason people are against this idea is because they KNOW it will be the preferred way to PvP for the masses, and they didn't grind for so many hours to fight against other grinders.....because they don't want a fair fight. And they will actually need skill to win those fights, and they didn't grind all those hours to need skill to win, just CPs.
So you make no effort to maximize your build. You only want to PVP, is that correct? Did you ever think there was more to it than just CP?
I'm not saying CP isn't an issue. It very much is, in both PVE and PVP. What I am saying is that even without CP players that choose to maximize their builds will have a great advantage. They will be able to do things like deal 25% more damage. That number sound familiar?
You will not get "fair fights" in Cyrodiil, CP or not. PVP in ESO is linked to a vertical progression system. Even without CP that is the fact of the matter. Those players who work to climb that ladder are rewarded for it with stat advantages.
I get that builds matter, no on is arguing that. I get that people are better than other skill wise, I get that. But CPs eliminate all need for skill in this game. And that's fine the game has a continuous progression, I'm not saying remove that. It's cool to play a game where you never stop progressing. I'm not saying stop any of that. I'm just saying convert campaigns that are empty into non-cp campaigns. Everyone in them still gain xp and CPs, but while ur in a non-cp campaign your CPs aren't slotted. No one has to change their builds that are only made viable with CPs, because you don't have to play in non-cp campaigns. This will make CPs a non issue. They won't need to figure out how to make a proper catchup right now, don't needs to figure out what the caps for CPs should be for now, it's takes care of all of this because people, like me, will have a place to PvP where CPs don't matter. No need for people, like me, to cry about them anymore, because we have a place to avoid them. CPs will no longer be an issue. Doing this hurts NO ONE, and makes the game more enjoyable for non-cp grinders.
Like I've said a few times, this is too easy of a fix to not do
It won't fix anything long term, players like yourself will be back to complain about other players who are better geared with better builds. You want to ignore all other aspects of the game's character progression, and blame your woes on CP. You simply cannot neglect your own character progression and expect skill to carry you through. Frankly you'll never be on the level of players who work to optimize their setups. You have to take a backseat to them or play the game in boarder strokes than just PVPing in Cyrodiil.
What I should grind for hours to get 1000 CPs to "optimize" my character, then go PvP and call it skill? I do work to optimize my character, I just refuse to grind to do it. People like you wan to hide behind CPs and call it skill
CP is not the only way to optimize your character. Gear, Abilities, Skill Points, Provisions and even Race are all part of it as well. A player has to branch out and play other parts of the game even if they just want to excel at PVP. This is an RPG, it rewards time spent on character progression. Even if CP was not in the game that would still be true.
By "grind" do you mean refuse to play anything but PVP?PvP is where this game shines IMO. If you only got better gear and a lot more xp, there would be no reason to play the main story at all. I only started playing the story because I finally hit vet1, and my dude is way too soft now my buff is gone
Do you remember saying this? You can call me unskilled all you like, I don't care. It's also not going to change the that you refuse to actually spend time developing your character and want to blame the failings of that on CP. You went in to Cyrodiil at level 10 and didn't leave to do anything else, you're suffering the consequences of that choice, and CP didn't do that to you. You did that to yourself.
Suffer the consequences of playing PvP to become better at PvP? Yeah I should fight mindless AI that have no real way to defended themselves outside of predetermined moves, over playing against actual people that can instantly defend themselves. Great point. And yes if you could get better gear in PvP there would be no reason to ever leave. But since you can't I travel from guild trader to guild trader looking for the best set armor types for my build. Not sure what point you are trying to make. The AI in the game are just stupid easy, I can stand right in front of them and kill basically any boss outside of dungeons and leave with full health. But yeah I should fight that to get better at PvP. And once non-CP campaigns come open you find me on the battlefield and we can see who is more skillful. Well once all your skill is taken away, you know the wall of CPs you hide behind
But I'm glad you have been checking up on me, not sure what you were trying to find, but if that was best you could come up with....you waisted your time
The part about "Gear, Abilitites, Skill Points, Provisions, and even Race" sailed right over your head, didn't it?
Leveling up is faster in PVE, and being at VR14 in vet PVP gives you access to more stats, along with better gear and consumables.
With a few exceptions purchased with AP, most of the best gear to PVP in, is a mix of crafted sets, items looted from chests, and dropped in dungeons, trials, and VDSA. Not all of it can be bought from a Guild Trader either, because some items like Monster Sets are bound to account on pick up.
For some builds, skills from the Fighter's and/or Mage's Guild are needed. A player needs to hunt Lore Books to level Mage's Guild and kill Undead and Daedra to level Fighter's. Both of these level faster in PVE. A player cannot become a Vampire or Werewolf in PVP, both offer useful benefits in PVP however, and again the skill lines are easier to level in PVE.
While a player does gain Skill Points from Alliance Rank, and there are Skyshards in Cyrodiil. Skill Points are more readily available in PVE. In order to maximize a build's potential, a player will need around 120 or more Skill Points on average. This is because even after skills are leveled and morphed there are still many passives to purchase.
For provisions I include both food and drinks as well as potions, those support consumables go a long way in Cyrodiil. Food gives flat increases to Health, Stamina, and/or Magicka, while drinks increase regen of Health, Stamina, and/or Magicka. Potions are a swiss army knife and can restore resources, increase damage and crit rating. As well as granting invisibility, knockdown and crowd control immunity, or increased movement speed and stealth detection.
While a player can buy some gear, and consumables they cannot buy abilities or Skill Points. Also the best ways to make large sums of gold involve PVE activities in order to get something to sell whether to an NPC merchant or to other players via trading.
If you take one thing away from this, let it be that you must do some PVE in order to make your character stronger. Else you will always be behind the players who do, even in a non-CP vet campaign. It's not about becoming more skilled by fighting the Engine. It's about the things gained and the bonuses they give you.
For someone with so much self professed skill you talk about it often. Are you reassuring yourself that you are truly skilled? You don't know how much CP I have or even whether I'm skilled or not, yet you assume. You assume over and over that anyone with CP is unskilled and only hiding behind it. Do you also assume that anyone who downs you in Cyrodiil is drowning in CP? Is that another method to reassure yourself that you are skilled? You really couldn't know how much CP they have yet, you continue to assume.0 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I know this has been pointed out already, but here's what Brian Wheeler had to say not long ago in a very similar thread. They have heard, and I think once the Imperial City is up and running more resources might go toward to this cp free campaign idea.ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »We are still looking to add non-Champion point campaigns, but it's not easy to do as people have noted. When we have an ETA we'll post it for you all though
Relax guys...it is just a matter of time.
Sure, there are many factors affecting the results in PVP, but those claiming cp's don't make any difference are not fooling anybody. If they didn't make any difference, there would be no point to having them at all and no one would come into threads like this vigorously defending them and trying to prevent cp free campaigns.
I would much rather that instead of focusing on some half a*&(*& "solution" like separate campaigns ZOS devs put their energies into fixing the runaway CP system which is the root of the problem and reason so many players have left and feel uninspired to come back.
They said they were looking at "catch-up mechanics" as well. So, when can we expect some progress on that, now that we already have people with over 1000 CP ruining the game balance? It is only a matter of time before end-game content is "500+ CP or GTFO."
I wish the devs would stop knee-jerking after every forum thread and just stick to fixing the balacne issues that are most important. I mean I know it was super mission critical to make it so trophies could no longer be banked, but instead of wasting time fixing things that aren't broke for no reason other than to make things more inconvenient (most likely we will see bag space increases on the crown store soon) how about you actually FOCUS on what is destroying your game?
Or not.1 -
markt84✭✭✭
Maybe because it will be the only active campaign?
Assuming a player could not perform well in PVP at any capacity without CP, which I find unlikely. A hypothetical non-CP vet campaign existed and was the only campaign with much activity. I'd find it more plausible that those players simply wouldn't play PVP.I know this has been pointed out already, but here's what Brian Wheeler had to say not long ago in a very similar thread. They have heard, and I think once the Imperial City is up and running more resources might go toward to this cp free campaign idea.ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »We are still looking to add non-Champion point campaigns, but it's not easy to do as people have noted. When we have an ETA we'll post it for you all though
Relax guys...it is just a matter of time.
Sure, there are many factors affecting the results in PVP, but those claiming cp's don't make any difference are not fooling anybody. If they didn't make any difference, there would be no point to having them at all and no one would come into threads like this vigorously defending them and trying to prevent cp free campaigns.
I would much rather that instead of focusing on some half a*&(*& "solution" like separate campaigns ZOS devs put their energies into fixing the runaway CP system which is the root of the problem and reason so many players have left and feel uninspired to come back.
They said they were looking at "catch-up mechanics" as well. So, when can we expect some progress on that, now that we already have people with over 1000 CP ruining the game balance? It is only a matter of time before end-game content is "500+ CP or GTFO."
I wish the devs would stop knee-jerking after every forum thread and just stick to fixing the balacne issues that are most important. I mean I know it was super mission critical to make it so trophies could no longer be banked, but instead of wasting time fixing things that aren't broke for no reason other than to make things more inconvenient (most likely we will see bag space increases on the crown store soon) how about you actually FOCUS on what is destroying your game?
Or not.
See how upset these people get about a campaign they don't even have to join that is without CPs, how mad do you think these guys will get if they make it so that people that don't grind as much can catch up with them in half the time? This forum would blow up with cp grinders crying. CPs are a big issue and it will be hard to properly fix them. Non-cp campaigns would buy them time to figure it out, and allow players that don't grind NPCs all day at the same place to not get ruled by cp grinders that have 1000 of them already
Edited by markt84 on August 10, 2015 12:29PM0 -
VincentBlanquin✭✭✭CP grinders will do best return back to WoW and stop ruining all games. locustsIrwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade0 -
RoamingRiverElk✭✭✭✭✭I have a DK and a sorc... The reason why I really, really wish they'd add a 300 or 360 max CP campaign is that the DK is less viable currently with 0 CP than a sorc is. Give us a campaign where it's possible to assign SOME CP, but not unlimited CP, and it will support build diversity.
So, I'm in favor of having four different kinds of campaigns (all enabled at the same time) when it comes to CP:
* Nonvet, no CP
* Vet, unlimited CP
* Vet, 360 CP max per character assigned
* Vet, no CP
And, well, I wouldn't mind if there was also a nonvet with CP campaign.Edited by RoamingRiverElk on August 10, 2015 12:33PMDalris Aalr - Magicka (Stamina) DK | Dalfish - Magicka Sorc | Dal Aalr - Magicka Warden | Dalrish - Mag/Stam NB | Irana Aalr - PvE Templar0 -
markt84✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?
Who says anything like that now? Their "stats beat me". No one is saying a non-cp campaign will make everyone equal, that everyone will be the same class, that no one will level up, and put your non-cp armor on before you come in. Will people ALWAYS have and advantage be it gear, builds, skill, whatever? Yes, but that will only be marginal, nothing skill can't overcome. CPs on the other hand not so much. The boost isn't maginal at all, the boost is 25% on top of the "stats". Everyone knows there is a huge difference in 0 CPs and 300+ champion points. You guys that want to grind CPs all day so you can PvP at night, go ahead no one is trying to stop you. Just saying people like me want to play in a non cp-campaign.
Ok I'll provide examples:Come on dude. How crappy of a player must you be to get a 25% damage boost while taking 25% less damage while 25% more health and resources to pull from to not win most fights? Your stock pile of CPs isn't skill, it's a buff to hide behindAnd I think that your argument places way more emphasis on "skill" than there really is. The game is simple, really. The skill is just doing the right thing at the right time, which most people already do. When, due to CP, I have 20% more physical and spell resistance than you, and 20% more spell and weapon damage than you, and 20% higher stamina, magica and health pools, my skill didn't beat you, my CP did.
Both of those from this same thread and are summed up as stating "Their Stats beat me".
The stats difference from a max/min set up is not near as marginal as you assume. Take the time to figure up how much more damage a max/min player can deal as compare to the average player in a mix of Fine and Superior gear. It's much closer to 25% than you are obviously aware. For instance 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based ability.
Ahahaha what? You think 1000 CPs gives you a 3% boost in damage? Geez that's why we need a non-cp campaign, for people like you that get on here and just pretend that CPs don't make a difference. I'm a vet 4 my buddy was a level 14, a LEVEL 14, and with his stam, magic, and health boosts, he did more damage than me. So yeah there is already a system in place to make up for armor and things like that. There is NO boost to make up for cps. But feel free to continue to spew BS on this subject
Did I say 1000 CP or did I say 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based "ability" [abilities]? Clearly I said the later.
Also please show at which point I personally said CP doesn't make a difference. I have said that CP pads skill, but doesn't replace, never that it doesn't make a difference.
Under 50/VR1 a player is scaled up to a VR12 in moderate gear. After the IC update everyone under VR14, including VR1-VR13 will be scaled to that point, again with moderate gear. They are not scaled to max level and moderate gear is by no means maxed out. That is referred to as 'battle leveling' and of course it does not make up for large amounts of CP. I am not saying it does. However CP is ultimately a stat increase, and it is not the only way to gain increased stats.
In a hypothetical vet campaign without CP there will still be players with more stats than the average player. Those are players who are max level and choose to spend the effort to max/min their setups. Battle leveling again like with CP will not make up for that difference, and the difference is enough will be a deciding factor.
You want to play in a PVP campaign without having to grind anything. Well a non-CP vet campaign will not give that to. At it's core ESO is an RPG will vertical progression. It will by it's very nature reward those who to spend time grinding, unless PVP is separated in it's entirety from the rest of the game and reworked to a system with linear progression.
Will people always get upset about something they think didn't go their way and should of? Of course. But CPs are a HUGE problem in PvP, and they only people that don't want to admit that are the people that "earned" them. And I'm sorry dude, I'm not doing something that sucks to get more "power" in PvP. I don't play games to do tedious and boring things...aka grinding. I play to enjoy myself. And the grinders have a place to go PvP, and people like me want our place to go PvP. The only reason people are against this idea is because they KNOW it will be the preferred way to PvP for the masses, and they didn't grind for so many hours to fight against other grinders.....because they don't want a fair fight. And they will actually need skill to win those fights, and they didn't grind all those hours to need skill to win, just CPs.
So you make no effort to maximize your build. You only want to PVP, is that correct? Did you ever think there was more to it than just CP?
I'm not saying CP isn't an issue. It very much is, in both PVE and PVP. What I am saying is that even without CP players that choose to maximize their builds will have a great advantage. They will be able to do things like deal 25% more damage. That number sound familiar?
You will not get "fair fights" in Cyrodiil, CP or not. PVP in ESO is linked to a vertical progression system. Even without CP that is the fact of the matter. Those players who work to climb that ladder are rewarded for it with stat advantages.
I get that builds matter, no on is arguing that. I get that people are better than other skill wise, I get that. But CPs eliminate all need for skill in this game. And that's fine the game has a continuous progression, I'm not saying remove that. It's cool to play a game where you never stop progressing. I'm not saying stop any of that. I'm just saying convert campaigns that are empty into non-cp campaigns. Everyone in them still gain xp and CPs, but while ur in a non-cp campaign your CPs aren't slotted. No one has to change their builds that are only made viable with CPs, because you don't have to play in non-cp campaigns. This will make CPs a non issue. They won't need to figure out how to make a proper catchup right now, don't needs to figure out what the caps for CPs should be for now, it's takes care of all of this because people, like me, will have a place to PvP where CPs don't matter. No need for people, like me, to cry about them anymore, because we have a place to avoid them. CPs will no longer be an issue. Doing this hurts NO ONE, and makes the game more enjoyable for non-cp grinders.
Like I've said a few times, this is too easy of a fix to not do
It won't fix anything long term, players like yourself will be back to complain about other players who are better geared with better builds. You want to ignore all other aspects of the game's character progression, and blame your woes on CP. You simply cannot neglect your own character progression and expect skill to carry you through. Frankly you'll never be on the level of players who work to optimize their setups. You have to take a backseat to them or play the game in boarder strokes than just PVPing in Cyrodiil.
What I should grind for hours to get 1000 CPs to "optimize" my character, then go PvP and call it skill? I do work to optimize my character, I just refuse to grind to do it. People like you wan to hide behind CPs and call it skill
CP is not the only way to optimize your character. Gear, Abilities, Skill Points, Provisions and even Race are all part of it as well. A player has to branch out and play other parts of the game even if they just want to excel at PVP. This is an RPG, it rewards time spent on character progression. Even if CP was not in the game that would still be true.
By "grind" do you mean refuse to play anything but PVP?PvP is where this game shines IMO. If you only got better gear and a lot more xp, there would be no reason to play the main story at all. I only started playing the story because I finally hit vet1, and my dude is way too soft now my buff is gone
Do you remember saying this? You can call me unskilled all you like, I don't care. It's also not going to change the that you refuse to actually spend time developing your character and want to blame the failings of that on CP. You went in to Cyrodiil at level 10 and didn't leave to do anything else, you're suffering the consequences of that choice, and CP didn't do that to you. You did that to yourself.
Suffer the consequences of playing PvP to become better at PvP? Yeah I should fight mindless AI that have no real way to defended themselves outside of predetermined moves, over playing against actual people that can instantly defend themselves. Great point. And yes if you could get better gear in PvP there would be no reason to ever leave. But since you can't I travel from guild trader to guild trader looking for the best set armor types for my build. Not sure what point you are trying to make. The AI in the game are just stupid easy, I can stand right in front of them and kill basically any boss outside of dungeons and leave with full health. But yeah I should fight that to get better at PvP. And once non-CP campaigns come open you find me on the battlefield and we can see who is more skillful. Well once all your skill is taken away, you know the wall of CPs you hide behind
But I'm glad you have been checking up on me, not sure what you were trying to find, but if that was best you could come up with....you waisted your time
The part about "Gear, Abilitites, Skill Points, Provisions, and even Race" sailed right over your head, didn't it?
Leveling up is faster in PVE, and being at VR14 in vet PVP gives you access to more stats, along with better gear and consumables.
With a few exceptions purchased with AP, most of the best gear to PVP in, is a mix of crafted sets, items looted from chests, and dropped in dungeons, trials, and VDSA. Not all of it can be bought from a Guild Trader either, because some items like Monster Sets are bound to account on pick up.
For some builds, skills from the Fighter's and/or Mage's Guild are needed. A player needs to hunt Lore Books to level Mage's Guild and kill Undead and Daedra to level Fighter's. Both of these level faster in PVE. A player cannot become a Vampire or Werewolf in PVP, both offer useful benefits in PVP however, and again the skill lines are easier to level in PVE.
While a player does gain Skill Points from Alliance Rank, and there are Skyshards in Cyrodiil. Skill Points are more readily available in PVE. In order to maximize a build's potential, a player will need around 120 or more Skill Points on average. This is because even after skills are leveled and morphed there are still many passives to purchase.
For provisions I include both food and drinks as well as potions, those support consumables go a long way in Cyrodiil. Food gives flat increases to Health, Stamina, and/or Magicka, while drinks increase regen of Health, Stamina, and/or Magicka. Potions are a swiss army knife and can restore resources, increase damage and crit rating. As well as granting invisibility, knockdown and crowd control immunity, or increased movement speed and stealth detection.
While a player can buy some gear, and consumables they cannot buy abilities or Skill Points. Also the best ways to make large sums of gold involve PVE activities in order to get something to sell whether to an NPC merchant or to other players via trading.
If you take one thing away from this, let it be that you must do some PVE in order to make your character stronger. Else you will always be behind the players who do, even in a non-CP vet campaign. It's not about becoming more skilled by fighting the Engine. It's about the things gained and the bonuses they give you.
For someone with so much self professed skill you talk about it often. Are you reassuring yourself that you are truly skilled? You don't know how much CP I have or even whether I'm skilled or not, yet you assume. You assume over and over that anyone with CP is unskilled and only hiding behind it. Do you also assume that anyone who downs you in Cyrodiil is drowning in CP? Is that another method to reassure yourself that you are skilled? You really couldn't know how much CP they have yet, you continue to assume.
Wow all that to say nothing. I beat the game, I am a werewolf, I beat the fighters guild, I'm level 4 in the mages guild. But yes you can find good gear in dungeons, and I haven't done much of those.
The point is you have no idea how skilled you are when surrounded by a wall of CPs. Your build probably relies on you having those CPs, and CPs make such a huge difference it changed your play style. But it's fine, you will never be forced to play in a non-cp campaign, so you have nothing to worry about0 -
PurifedBladez✭✭✭✭✭It would of been cool if pc players didn't get to jump there characters into the consoles... yeah that would of been cool.0
-
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »CP grinders will do best return back to WoW and stop ruining all games. locusts
ZOS should be ashamed to be catering to this plague, but I guess they are desperate for customers.
In the words of Idiocracy, "do you think that makes the ecomony suck?"
I guess ZOS hasn't put the pieces together yet. Could the reason you are hurting for players have something to do with your taking 6+ months to fix critical exploits, and allowing blatant macro botting and CP grinding to completely unbalance the game?
Naaaaaaaah. Better continue to cater to it then. Maybe some day they will learn.0 -
markt84✭✭✭PurifedBladez wrote: »It would of been cool if pc players didn't get to jump there characters into the consoles... yeah that would of been cool.
Agreed. That pissed me off, and made PvP tuff, and I was outspoken about their presence in PvP, but I changed my stance because they aren't going anywhere. The CPs is what makes them so OP, so now I'm for non-cp campaigns. The game rewards the players that spend 8 hours a day farming NPCs, instead of actually playing the game.
Like that dude said I should be doing, farming NPCs is how you get CPs, not quests and everything else. Grinding, that's the most effiecent way to level up CPs in this game, and that is the root of the problem, well and it also became a problem very quickly on consoles because they allowed PC transfers. But give us non-cp campaigns and you can allow every PC gamer to transfer.0 -
PurifedBladez✭✭✭✭✭PurifedBladez wrote: »It would of been cool if pc players didn't get to jump there characters into the consoles... yeah that would of been cool.
Agreed. That pissed me off, and made PvP tuff, and I was outspoken about their presence in PvP, but I changed my stance because they aren't going anywhere. The CPs is what makes them so OP, so now I'm for non-cp campaigns. The game rewards the players that spend 8 hours a day farming NPCs, instead of actually playing the game.
Like that dude said I should be doing, farming NPCs is how you get CPs, not quests and everything else. Grinding, that's the most effiecent way to level up CPs in this game, and that is the root of the problem, well and it also became a problem very quickly on consoles because they allowed PC transfers. But give us non-cp campaigns and you can allow every PC gamer to transfer.
I'll probably never farm for cp. So I guess I'll always be at a disadvantage especially to the pc players with 300+. Whatever though what can I do about it?0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?
Who says anything like that now? Their "stats beat me". No one is saying a non-cp campaign will make everyone equal, that everyone will be the same class, that no one will level up, and put your non-cp armor on before you come in. Will people ALWAYS have and advantage be it gear, builds, skill, whatever? Yes, but that will only be marginal, nothing skill can't overcome. CPs on the other hand not so much. The boost isn't maginal at all, the boost is 25% on top of the "stats". Everyone knows there is a huge difference in 0 CPs and 300+ champion points. You guys that want to grind CPs all day so you can PvP at night, go ahead no one is trying to stop you. Just saying people like me want to play in a non cp-campaign.
Ok I'll provide examples:Come on dude. How crappy of a player must you be to get a 25% damage boost while taking 25% less damage while 25% more health and resources to pull from to not win most fights? Your stock pile of CPs isn't skill, it's a buff to hide behindAnd I think that your argument places way more emphasis on "skill" than there really is. The game is simple, really. The skill is just doing the right thing at the right time, which most people already do. When, due to CP, I have 20% more physical and spell resistance than you, and 20% more spell and weapon damage than you, and 20% higher stamina, magica and health pools, my skill didn't beat you, my CP did.
Both of those from this same thread and are summed up as stating "Their Stats beat me".
The stats difference from a max/min set up is not near as marginal as you assume. Take the time to figure up how much more damage a max/min player can deal as compare to the average player in a mix of Fine and Superior gear. It's much closer to 25% than you are obviously aware. For instance 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based ability.
Ahahaha what? You think 1000 CPs gives you a 3% boost in damage? Geez that's why we need a non-cp campaign, for people like you that get on here and just pretend that CPs don't make a difference. I'm a vet 4 my buddy was a level 14, a LEVEL 14, and with his stam, magic, and health boosts, he did more damage than me. So yeah there is already a system in place to make up for armor and things like that. There is NO boost to make up for cps. But feel free to continue to spew BS on this subject
Did I say 1000 CP or did I say 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based "ability" [abilities]? Clearly I said the later.
Also please show at which point I personally said CP doesn't make a difference. I have said that CP pads skill, but doesn't replace, never that it doesn't make a difference.
Under 50/VR1 a player is scaled up to a VR12 in moderate gear. After the IC update everyone under VR14, including VR1-VR13 will be scaled to that point, again with moderate gear. They are not scaled to max level and moderate gear is by no means maxed out. That is referred to as 'battle leveling' and of course it does not make up for large amounts of CP. I am not saying it does. However CP is ultimately a stat increase, and it is not the only way to gain increased stats.
In a hypothetical vet campaign without CP there will still be players with more stats than the average player. Those are players who are max level and choose to spend the effort to max/min their setups. Battle leveling again like with CP will not make up for that difference, and the difference is enough will be a deciding factor.
You want to play in a PVP campaign without having to grind anything. Well a non-CP vet campaign will not give that to. At it's core ESO is an RPG will vertical progression. It will by it's very nature reward those who to spend time grinding, unless PVP is separated in it's entirety from the rest of the game and reworked to a system with linear progression.
Will people always get upset about something they think didn't go their way and should of? Of course. But CPs are a HUGE problem in PvP, and they only people that don't want to admit that are the people that "earned" them. And I'm sorry dude, I'm not doing something that sucks to get more "power" in PvP. I don't play games to do tedious and boring things...aka grinding. I play to enjoy myself. And the grinders have a place to go PvP, and people like me want our place to go PvP. The only reason people are against this idea is because they KNOW it will be the preferred way to PvP for the masses, and they didn't grind for so many hours to fight against other grinders.....because they don't want a fair fight. And they will actually need skill to win those fights, and they didn't grind all those hours to need skill to win, just CPs.
So you make no effort to maximize your build. You only want to PVP, is that correct? Did you ever think there was more to it than just CP?
I'm not saying CP isn't an issue. It very much is, in both PVE and PVP. What I am saying is that even without CP players that choose to maximize their builds will have a great advantage. They will be able to do things like deal 25% more damage. That number sound familiar?
You will not get "fair fights" in Cyrodiil, CP or not. PVP in ESO is linked to a vertical progression system. Even without CP that is the fact of the matter. Those players who work to climb that ladder are rewarded for it with stat advantages.
I get that builds matter, no on is arguing that. I get that people are better than other skill wise, I get that. But CPs eliminate all need for skill in this game. And that's fine the game has a continuous progression, I'm not saying remove that. It's cool to play a game where you never stop progressing. I'm not saying stop any of that. I'm just saying convert campaigns that are empty into non-cp campaigns. Everyone in them still gain xp and CPs, but while ur in a non-cp campaign your CPs aren't slotted. No one has to change their builds that are only made viable with CPs, because you don't have to play in non-cp campaigns. This will make CPs a non issue. They won't need to figure out how to make a proper catchup right now, don't needs to figure out what the caps for CPs should be for now, it's takes care of all of this because people, like me, will have a place to PvP where CPs don't matter. No need for people, like me, to cry about them anymore, because we have a place to avoid them. CPs will no longer be an issue. Doing this hurts NO ONE, and makes the game more enjoyable for non-cp grinders.
Like I've said a few times, this is too easy of a fix to not do
It won't fix anything long term, players like yourself will be back to complain about other players who are better geared with better builds. You want to ignore all other aspects of the game's character progression, and blame your woes on CP. You simply cannot neglect your own character progression and expect skill to carry you through. Frankly you'll never be on the level of players who work to optimize their setups. You have to take a backseat to them or play the game in boarder strokes than just PVPing in Cyrodiil.
What I should grind for hours to get 1000 CPs to "optimize" my character, then go PvP and call it skill? I do work to optimize my character, I just refuse to grind to do it. People like you wan to hide behind CPs and call it skill
CP is not the only way to optimize your character. Gear, Abilities, Skill Points, Provisions and even Race are all part of it as well. A player has to branch out and play other parts of the game even if they just want to excel at PVP. This is an RPG, it rewards time spent on character progression. Even if CP was not in the game that would still be true.
By "grind" do you mean refuse to play anything but PVP?PvP is where this game shines IMO. If you only got better gear and a lot more xp, there would be no reason to play the main story at all. I only started playing the story because I finally hit vet1, and my dude is way too soft now my buff is gone
Do you remember saying this? You can call me unskilled all you like, I don't care. It's also not going to change the that you refuse to actually spend time developing your character and want to blame the failings of that on CP. You went in to Cyrodiil at level 10 and didn't leave to do anything else, you're suffering the consequences of that choice, and CP didn't do that to you. You did that to yourself.
Suffer the consequences of playing PvP to become better at PvP? Yeah I should fight mindless AI that have no real way to defended themselves outside of predetermined moves, over playing against actual people that can instantly defend themselves. Great point. And yes if you could get better gear in PvP there would be no reason to ever leave. But since you can't I travel from guild trader to guild trader looking for the best set armor types for my build. Not sure what point you are trying to make. The AI in the game are just stupid easy, I can stand right in front of them and kill basically any boss outside of dungeons and leave with full health. But yeah I should fight that to get better at PvP. And once non-CP campaigns come open you find me on the battlefield and we can see who is more skillful. Well once all your skill is taken away, you know the wall of CPs you hide behind
But I'm glad you have been checking up on me, not sure what you were trying to find, but if that was best you could come up with....you waisted your time
The part about "Gear, Abilitites, Skill Points, Provisions, and even Race" sailed right over your head, didn't it?
Leveling up is faster in PVE, and being at VR14 in vet PVP gives you access to more stats, along with better gear and consumables.
With a few exceptions purchased with AP, most of the best gear to PVP in, is a mix of crafted sets, items looted from chests, and dropped in dungeons, trials, and VDSA. Not all of it can be bought from a Guild Trader either, because some items like Monster Sets are bound to account on pick up.
For some builds, skills from the Fighter's and/or Mage's Guild are needed. A player needs to hunt Lore Books to level Mage's Guild and kill Undead and Daedra to level Fighter's. Both of these level faster in PVE. A player cannot become a Vampire or Werewolf in PVP, both offer useful benefits in PVP however, and again the skill lines are easier to level in PVE.
While a player does gain Skill Points from Alliance Rank, and there are Skyshards in Cyrodiil. Skill Points are more readily available in PVE. In order to maximize a build's potential, a player will need around 120 or more Skill Points on average. This is because even after skills are leveled and morphed there are still many passives to purchase.
For provisions I include both food and drinks as well as potions, those support consumables go a long way in Cyrodiil. Food gives flat increases to Health, Stamina, and/or Magicka, while drinks increase regen of Health, Stamina, and/or Magicka. Potions are a swiss army knife and can restore resources, increase damage and crit rating. As well as granting invisibility, knockdown and crowd control immunity, or increased movement speed and stealth detection.
While a player can buy some gear, and consumables they cannot buy abilities or Skill Points. Also the best ways to make large sums of gold involve PVE activities in order to get something to sell whether to an NPC merchant or to other players via trading.
If you take one thing away from this, let it be that you must do some PVE in order to make your character stronger. Else you will always be behind the players who do, even in a non-CP vet campaign. It's not about becoming more skilled by fighting the Engine. It's about the things gained and the bonuses they give you.
For someone with so much self professed skill you talk about it often. Are you reassuring yourself that you are truly skilled? You don't know how much CP I have or even whether I'm skilled or not, yet you assume. You assume over and over that anyone with CP is unskilled and only hiding behind it. Do you also assume that anyone who downs you in Cyrodiil is drowning in CP? Is that another method to reassure yourself that you are skilled? You really couldn't know how much CP they have yet, you continue to assume.
Wow all that to say nothing. I beat the game, I am a werewolf, I beat the fighters guild, I'm level 4 in the mages guild. But yes you can find good gear in dungeons, and I haven't done much of those.
The point is you have no idea how skilled you are when surrounded by a wall of CPs. Your build probably relies on you having those CPs, and CPs make such a huge difference it changed your play style. But it's fine, you will never be forced to play in a non-cp campaign, so you have nothing to worry about
More assumptions, and more points you fail to grasp. You keep that up right. I'm going to laugh if/when a non-CP campaign is implemented and you're right back here complaining about something else because it's never something you did wrong, it's always something or someone else's fault.
Oh, and my build is the same one a I've used since non-vet. It works just fine without CP, but if it helps you feel better about yourself to think I'm unskilled and hiding behind CP go right ahead. It doesn't make any difference to me. However it seems to mean a great deal to you.0 -
markt84✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?
Who says anything like that now? Their "stats beat me". No one is saying a non-cp campaign will make everyone equal, that everyone will be the same class, that no one will level up, and put your non-cp armor on before you come in. Will people ALWAYS have and advantage be it gear, builds, skill, whatever? Yes, but that will only be marginal, nothing skill can't overcome. CPs on the other hand not so much. The boost isn't maginal at all, the boost is 25% on top of the "stats". Everyone knows there is a huge difference in 0 CPs and 300+ champion points. You guys that want to grind CPs all day so you can PvP at night, go ahead no one is trying to stop you. Just saying people like me want to play in a non cp-campaign.
Ok I'll provide examples:Come on dude. How crappy of a player must you be to get a 25% damage boost while taking 25% less damage while 25% more health and resources to pull from to not win most fights? Your stock pile of CPs isn't skill, it's a buff to hide behindAnd I think that your argument places way more emphasis on "skill" than there really is. The game is simple, really. The skill is just doing the right thing at the right time, which most people already do. When, due to CP, I have 20% more physical and spell resistance than you, and 20% more spell and weapon damage than you, and 20% higher stamina, magica and health pools, my skill didn't beat you, my CP did.
Both of those from this same thread and are summed up as stating "Their Stats beat me".
The stats difference from a max/min set up is not near as marginal as you assume. Take the time to figure up how much more damage a max/min player can deal as compare to the average player in a mix of Fine and Superior gear. It's much closer to 25% than you are obviously aware. For instance 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based ability.
Ahahaha what? You think 1000 CPs gives you a 3% boost in damage? Geez that's why we need a non-cp campaign, for people like you that get on here and just pretend that CPs don't make a difference. I'm a vet 4 my buddy was a level 14, a LEVEL 14, and with his stam, magic, and health boosts, he did more damage than me. So yeah there is already a system in place to make up for armor and things like that. There is NO boost to make up for cps. But feel free to continue to spew BS on this subject
Did I say 1000 CP or did I say 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based "ability" [abilities]? Clearly I said the later.
Also please show at which point I personally said CP doesn't make a difference. I have said that CP pads skill, but doesn't replace, never that it doesn't make a difference.
Under 50/VR1 a player is scaled up to a VR12 in moderate gear. After the IC update everyone under VR14, including VR1-VR13 will be scaled to that point, again with moderate gear. They are not scaled to max level and moderate gear is by no means maxed out. That is referred to as 'battle leveling' and of course it does not make up for large amounts of CP. I am not saying it does. However CP is ultimately a stat increase, and it is not the only way to gain increased stats.
In a hypothetical vet campaign without CP there will still be players with more stats than the average player. Those are players who are max level and choose to spend the effort to max/min their setups. Battle leveling again like with CP will not make up for that difference, and the difference is enough will be a deciding factor.
You want to play in a PVP campaign without having to grind anything. Well a non-CP vet campaign will not give that to. At it's core ESO is an RPG will vertical progression. It will by it's very nature reward those who to spend time grinding, unless PVP is separated in it's entirety from the rest of the game and reworked to a system with linear progression.
Will people always get upset about something they think didn't go their way and should of? Of course. But CPs are a HUGE problem in PvP, and they only people that don't want to admit that are the people that "earned" them. And I'm sorry dude, I'm not doing something that sucks to get more "power" in PvP. I don't play games to do tedious and boring things...aka grinding. I play to enjoy myself. And the grinders have a place to go PvP, and people like me want our place to go PvP. The only reason people are against this idea is because they KNOW it will be the preferred way to PvP for the masses, and they didn't grind for so many hours to fight against other grinders.....because they don't want a fair fight. And they will actually need skill to win those fights, and they didn't grind all those hours to need skill to win, just CPs.
So you make no effort to maximize your build. You only want to PVP, is that correct? Did you ever think there was more to it than just CP?
I'm not saying CP isn't an issue. It very much is, in both PVE and PVP. What I am saying is that even without CP players that choose to maximize their builds will have a great advantage. They will be able to do things like deal 25% more damage. That number sound familiar?
You will not get "fair fights" in Cyrodiil, CP or not. PVP in ESO is linked to a vertical progression system. Even without CP that is the fact of the matter. Those players who work to climb that ladder are rewarded for it with stat advantages.
I get that builds matter, no on is arguing that. I get that people are better than other skill wise, I get that. But CPs eliminate all need for skill in this game. And that's fine the game has a continuous progression, I'm not saying remove that. It's cool to play a game where you never stop progressing. I'm not saying stop any of that. I'm just saying convert campaigns that are empty into non-cp campaigns. Everyone in them still gain xp and CPs, but while ur in a non-cp campaign your CPs aren't slotted. No one has to change their builds that are only made viable with CPs, because you don't have to play in non-cp campaigns. This will make CPs a non issue. They won't need to figure out how to make a proper catchup right now, don't needs to figure out what the caps for CPs should be for now, it's takes care of all of this because people, like me, will have a place to PvP where CPs don't matter. No need for people, like me, to cry about them anymore, because we have a place to avoid them. CPs will no longer be an issue. Doing this hurts NO ONE, and makes the game more enjoyable for non-cp grinders.
Like I've said a few times, this is too easy of a fix to not do
It won't fix anything long term, players like yourself will be back to complain about other players who are better geared with better builds. You want to ignore all other aspects of the game's character progression, and blame your woes on CP. You simply cannot neglect your own character progression and expect skill to carry you through. Frankly you'll never be on the level of players who work to optimize their setups. You have to take a backseat to them or play the game in boarder strokes than just PVPing in Cyrodiil.
What I should grind for hours to get 1000 CPs to "optimize" my character, then go PvP and call it skill? I do work to optimize my character, I just refuse to grind to do it. People like you wan to hide behind CPs and call it skill
CP is not the only way to optimize your character. Gear, Abilities, Skill Points, Provisions and even Race are all part of it as well. A player has to branch out and play other parts of the game even if they just want to excel at PVP. This is an RPG, it rewards time spent on character progression. Even if CP was not in the game that would still be true.
By "grind" do you mean refuse to play anything but PVP?PvP is where this game shines IMO. If you only got better gear and a lot more xp, there would be no reason to play the main story at all. I only started playing the story because I finally hit vet1, and my dude is way too soft now my buff is gone
Do you remember saying this? You can call me unskilled all you like, I don't care. It's also not going to change the that you refuse to actually spend time developing your character and want to blame the failings of that on CP. You went in to Cyrodiil at level 10 and didn't leave to do anything else, you're suffering the consequences of that choice, and CP didn't do that to you. You did that to yourself.
Suffer the consequences of playing PvP to become better at PvP? Yeah I should fight mindless AI that have no real way to defended themselves outside of predetermined moves, over playing against actual people that can instantly defend themselves. Great point. And yes if you could get better gear in PvP there would be no reason to ever leave. But since you can't I travel from guild trader to guild trader looking for the best set armor types for my build. Not sure what point you are trying to make. The AI in the game are just stupid easy, I can stand right in front of them and kill basically any boss outside of dungeons and leave with full health. But yeah I should fight that to get better at PvP. And once non-CP campaigns come open you find me on the battlefield and we can see who is more skillful. Well once all your skill is taken away, you know the wall of CPs you hide behind
But I'm glad you have been checking up on me, not sure what you were trying to find, but if that was best you could come up with....you waisted your time
The part about "Gear, Abilitites, Skill Points, Provisions, and even Race" sailed right over your head, didn't it?
Leveling up is faster in PVE, and being at VR14 in vet PVP gives you access to more stats, along with better gear and consumables.
With a few exceptions purchased with AP, most of the best gear to PVP in, is a mix of crafted sets, items looted from chests, and dropped in dungeons, trials, and VDSA. Not all of it can be bought from a Guild Trader either, because some items like Monster Sets are bound to account on pick up.
For some builds, skills from the Fighter's and/or Mage's Guild are needed. A player needs to hunt Lore Books to level Mage's Guild and kill Undead and Daedra to level Fighter's. Both of these level faster in PVE. A player cannot become a Vampire or Werewolf in PVP, both offer useful benefits in PVP however, and again the skill lines are easier to level in PVE.
While a player does gain Skill Points from Alliance Rank, and there are Skyshards in Cyrodiil. Skill Points are more readily available in PVE. In order to maximize a build's potential, a player will need around 120 or more Skill Points on average. This is because even after skills are leveled and morphed there are still many passives to purchase.
For provisions I include both food and drinks as well as potions, those support consumables go a long way in Cyrodiil. Food gives flat increases to Health, Stamina, and/or Magicka, while drinks increase regen of Health, Stamina, and/or Magicka. Potions are a swiss army knife and can restore resources, increase damage and crit rating. As well as granting invisibility, knockdown and crowd control immunity, or increased movement speed and stealth detection.
While a player can buy some gear, and consumables they cannot buy abilities or Skill Points. Also the best ways to make large sums of gold involve PVE activities in order to get something to sell whether to an NPC merchant or to other players via trading.
If you take one thing away from this, let it be that you must do some PVE in order to make your character stronger. Else you will always be behind the players who do, even in a non-CP vet campaign. It's not about becoming more skilled by fighting the Engine. It's about the things gained and the bonuses they give you.
For someone with so much self professed skill you talk about it often. Are you reassuring yourself that you are truly skilled? You don't know how much CP I have or even whether I'm skilled or not, yet you assume. You assume over and over that anyone with CP is unskilled and only hiding behind it. Do you also assume that anyone who downs you in Cyrodiil is drowning in CP? Is that another method to reassure yourself that you are skilled? You really couldn't know how much CP they have yet, you continue to assume.
Wow all that to say nothing. I beat the game, I am a werewolf, I beat the fighters guild, I'm level 4 in the mages guild. But yes you can find good gear in dungeons, and I haven't done much of those.
The point is you have no idea how skilled you are when surrounded by a wall of CPs. Your build probably relies on you having those CPs, and CPs make such a huge difference it changed your play style. But it's fine, you will never be forced to play in a non-cp campaign, so you have nothing to worry about
More assumptions, and more points you fail to grasp. You keep that up right. I'm going to laugh if/when a non-CP campaign is implemented and you're right back here complaining about something else because it's never something you did wrong, it's always something or someone else's fault.
Oh, and my build is the same one a I've used since non-vet. It works just fine without CP, but if it helps you feel better about yourself to think I'm unskilled and hiding behind CP go right ahead. It doesn't make any difference to me. However it seems to mean a great deal to you.
Hahaha take them off then. If they mean nothing to you, strip all your CPs away and see if your able to just as good. And guy, a level 45 DK 1v1ed me an won the other night. Do you see me on here crying about that? I'm I now saying non-vets get way too much of a boost, since the are brought up to v12 and I'm still v4? Am I saying DKs need nerfed because a level 45 beat me? Ummmmmmm no. Now would the fight of went differently if I actually slotted the 34 CPs I have unused? Maybe, but the CPs would of given me the edge and not my skill. The guy beat me because in that fight he was better than me, well done, I'll respawn and give it another go.Edited by markt84 on August 10, 2015 2:14PM0 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭More assumptions, and more points you fail to grasp. You keep that up right. I'm going to laugh if/when a non-CP campaign is implemented and you're right back here complaining about something else because it's never something you did wrong, it's always something or someone else's fault.
Attacking the person instead of the idea. Assuming that anyone who disagrees with you must necessarily be wrong, regardless of their point, which you ignore. Assuming there is and can be no legit cause for concern about uncapped CP unbalancing the game in favor of those that mindlessly grind/macro bot or pay someone to mindlessly grind/macro bot for them.
Classy.Oh, and my build is the same one a I've used since non-vet. It works just fine without CP, but if it helps you feel better about yourself to think I'm unskilled and hiding behind CP go right ahead. It doesn't make any difference to me. However it seems to mean a great deal to you.
Perhaps if you tried making a point without the condescending sarcasm and internet tough guy attitude, people might take what you have to say more seriously.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content/Language]Edited by ZOS_Alex on August 10, 2015 3:15PM0 -
IIIMPIII✭all i see is a bunch of whiners. People work hard for the cp. If you dont like it dont play0
-
markt84✭✭✭all i see is a bunch of whiners. People work hard for the cp. If you dont like it dont play
And all I see is a bunch of people attacking a non-cp campaigns, when it that will have 0 effect on their playing experience. They just can't stand the thought of people that don't spend theirs days farming NPCs will have a place to go to avoid the ones that doEdited by markt84 on August 10, 2015 2:29PM2 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭More assumptions, and more points you fail to grasp. You keep that up right. I'm going to laugh if/when a non-CP campaign is implemented and you're right back here complaining about something else because it's never something you did wrong, it's always something or someone else's fault.
Attacking the person instead of the idea. Assuming that anyone who disagrees with you must necessarily be wrong, regardless of their point, which you ignore. Assuming there is and can be no legit cause for concern about uncapped CP unbalancing the game in favor of those that mindlessly grind/macro bot or pay someone to mindlessly grind/macro bot for them.
Classy.Oh, and my build is the same one a I've used since non-vet. It works just fine without CP, but if it helps you feel better about yourself to think I'm unskilled and hiding behind CP go right ahead. It doesn't make any difference to me. However it seems to mean a great deal to you.
Perhaps if you tried making a point without the condescending sarcasm and internet tough guy attitude, people might take what you have to say more seriously.
You should read through the thread and pay attention to my actual stance on CP. Nevertheless thanks for the lols.
[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]Edited by ZOS_Alex on August 10, 2015 3:16PM0 -
ZOS_Alex✭✭✭Hi, everyone.
We understand that people are going to disagree from time to time, but please remember to keep your comments respectful at all times on our forums, even when you disagree with others. Insults or other disruptive behavior do not help further discussion and can move a thread off topic quickly. We encourage sharing opinions, but we ask that they are constructively stated when doing so, as this will help keep the discussion on track.
Thank you!1 -
VincentBlanquin✭✭✭this is silly. people typing that they work hard. People! We are playing game! Game must be about fun, not about get something for work....
this is how this community is divided. on one side are grinders and hardworkers and on the other players playing for enjoy. neveerending storyEdited by VincentBlanquin on August 10, 2015 3:21PMIrwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade3 -
markt84✭✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »this is silly. people typing that they work hard. People! We are playing game! Game must be about fun, not about get something for work....
this is how this community is divided. on one side are grinders and hardworkers and on the other players playing for enjoy. neveerending story
Yup. And I refuse to do things that take away from my enjoyment of playing a video game. People say it's my fault because I don't play the game I should. It's an mmo, it should be enjoyable no matter how you choose to play. For me thinks like grinding, farming, tedious, and boring will never be something I sign up to play. That's just me tho. I work and play video games to enjoy myself, not got to work to play a video that feel like work. Maybe that makes me a "casual" player, whatever I play to enjoy myself0 -
CtrlAltDlt✭✭✭I Agree about a non-cp campaign or possible capped cp campaigns. Imo the cp is system was not completely thought out, how is it possible that it takes the same amount of exp to get one cp for someone with 0 and someone with 1000? How are new players supposed to ever become competitive with such a system.PC NA - jeazzy
stamblade outnumbered pvp vol 1. youtu.be/h1ONYfpAJJ8
Stamblade outbumbered pvp vol 2. No cheese youtu.be/rN4_aRVMvWw0 -
RustedValor✭✭✭The problem with CP is that it simply breaks the balance of the game so badly with infinite resource builds and crazy damage that ZOS was forced to throw in a bunch of bandaid quick fixes to try to make Imperial City more balanced and just threw the entire games balance out of wack. Without CP problems there would be no need to add dodge roll, teleport, or block changes along with many of the other skill changes and nerfs to various classes. Also there would be no need for the 50% damage/healing/shield reductions in pvp because those skills would have been way easier to balance had CP not been a factor for PvP. Progression should be done through gear after max level, not an endless grind fest that is impossible to balance.Edited by RustedValor on August 10, 2015 6:32PM1
-
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭RustedValor wrote: »The problem with CP is that it simply breaks the balance of the game so badly with infinite resource builds and crazy damage that ZOS was forced to throw in a bunch of bandaid quick fixes to try to make Imperial City more balanced and just threw the entire games balance out of wack. Without CP problems there would be no need to add dodge roll, teleport, or block changes along with many of the other skill changes and nerfs to various classes. Also there would be no need for the 50% damage/healing/shield reductions in pvp because those skills would have been way easier to balance had CP not been a factor for PvP. Progression should be done through gear after max level, not an endless grind fest that is impossible to balance.
Generally agree. Prior to CPs there were some class balancing issues as with any game, but CPs has essentially made it so much worse.
There are people who claim "CPs don't make a difference cuz it comes down to skill"; if that's true, why aren't they skillfully defeating an emp that goes around instantly creating little crosses on the ground with one or two abilities?
Disabling the grass may improve performance.1 -
Tolmos✭✭✭✭RustedValor wrote: »The problem with CP is that it simply breaks the balance of the game so badly with infinite resource builds and crazy damage that ZOS was forced to throw in a bunch of bandaid quick fixes to try to make Imperial City more balanced and just threw the entire games balance out of wack. Without CP problems there would be no need to add dodge roll, teleport, or block changes along with many of the other skill changes and nerfs to various classes. Also there would be no need for the 50% damage/healing/shield reductions in pvp because those skills would have been way easier to balance had CP not been a factor for PvP. Progression should be done through gear after max level, not an endless grind fest that is impossible to balance.
Generally agree. Prior to CPs there were some class balancing issues as with any game, but CPs has essentially made it so much worse.
There are people who claim "CPs don't make a difference cuz it comes down to skill"; if that's true, why aren't they skillfully defeating an emp that goes around instantly creating little crosses on the ground with one or two abilities?
Or very afraid of losing the ability to rely on that crutch by having CP negated in PvP? If it doesn't make any real difference, there's no real loss in it being relegated to PvE... right?
Edited by Tolmos on August 10, 2015 8:04PM0 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭RustedValor wrote: »The problem with CP is that it simply breaks the balance of the game so badly with infinite resource builds and crazy damage that ZOS was forced to throw in a bunch of bandaid quick fixes to try to make Imperial City more balanced and just threw the entire games balance out of wack. Without CP problems there would be no need to add dodge roll, teleport, or block changes along with many of the other skill changes and nerfs to various classes. Also there would be no need for the 50% damage/healing/shield reductions in pvp because those skills would have been way easier to balance had CP not been a factor for PvP. Progression should be done through gear after max level, not an endless grind fest that is impossible to balance.
Generally agree. Prior to CPs there were some class balancing issues as with any game, but CPs has essentially made it so much worse.
There are people who claim "CPs don't make a difference cuz it comes down to skill"; if that's true, why aren't they skillfully defeating an emp that goes around instantly creating little crosses on the ground with one or two abilities?
Or very afraid of losing the ability to rely on that crutch by having CP negated in PvP? If it doesn't make any real difference, there's no real loss in it being relegated to PvE... right?
No loss at all. :-)
Just today I read a post by someone demonstrating the mathematical capability of a max magicka build to have a 60k+ shield stack if one has great gear and invests 100 CPs into bastion. I mean, everyone who plays this game has that right? I just have to laugh. And then people complain about zergs? It's not like low-CP folks are on equal footing anywhere they go.
[edit]
Also, re. zerging, there were zergs shortly from the time Cyrodiil first opened, lol. But yeah, CPs (and lack of FCs) have made it worse.Edited by k2blader on August 10, 2015 8:22PMDisabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
nimander99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Build trumps CP's 9 out of ten times.I AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
"Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
"moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
"MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
"MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
"MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
"MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
"MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
"MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
"MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
"MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???
Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP4500 -
Sureshawt✭✭✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »this is silly. people typing that they work hard. People! We are playing game! Game must be about fun, not about get something for work....
this is how this community is divided. on one side are grinders and hardworkers and on the other players playing for enjoy. neveerending story
Yup. And I refuse to do things that take away from my enjoyment of playing a video game. People say it's my fault because I don't play the game I should. It's an mmo, it should be enjoyable no matter how you choose to play. For me thinks like grinding, farming, tedious, and boring will never be something I sign up to play. That's just me tho. I work and play video games to enjoy myself, not got to work to play a video that feel like work. Maybe that makes me a "casual" player, whatever I play to enjoy myself
This^
The first popular graphical MMO was Ultima Online and it did NOT have grind and in fact had an adjustable skill cap. MMOs only need grind, at least in PvP, if the game environment and gameplay is shallow. ESO does not need grind in my opinion, however, it appears they are going to cater to the hard workers....uhhh hard working gamer?
I can only hope ZOS gives its customers a choice and I will certainly choose the grind free non-CP campaign if given that choice. However, I do have my backup in GW2 which has chosen to avoid grind in PvP.
The only reason I lurk around around here is because I do find ESO to have more compelling gameplay and a more interesting environment to play in. However, if I have to choose between 'working' in my game and 'having fun' in my game ....well I already have plenty of real work in my life.
Edited by Sureshawt on August 10, 2015 8:49PM1 -
markt84✭✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »this is silly. people typing that they work hard. People! We are playing game! Game must be about fun, not about get something for work....
this is how this community is divided. on one side are grinders and hardworkers and on the other players playing for enjoy. neveerending story
Yup. And I refuse to do things that take away from my enjoyment of playing a video game. People say it's my fault because I don't play the game I should. It's an mmo, it should be enjoyable no matter how you choose to play. For me thinks like grinding, farming, tedious, and boring will never be something I sign up to play. That's just me tho. I work and play video games to enjoy myself, not got to work to play a video that feel like work. Maybe that makes me a "casual" player, whatever I play to enjoy myself
This^
The first popular graphical MMO was Ultima Online and it did NOT have grind and in fact had an adjustable skill cap. MMOs only need grind, at least in PvP, if the game environment and gameplay is shallow. ESO does not need grind in my opinion, however, it appears they are going to cater to the hard workers....uhhh hard working gamer?
I can only hope ZOS gives its customers a choice and I will certainly choose the grind free non-CP campaign if given that choice. However, I do have my backup in GW2 which has chosen to avoid grind in PvP.
The only reason I lurk around around here is because I do find ESO to have more compelling gameplay and a more interesting environment to play in. However, if I have to choose between 'working' in my game and 'having fun' in my game ....well I already have plenty of real work in my life.
I really hope a lot of people don't give up, because it is really a great game and it will only last if people stick around.
But I really don't understand that pushback on a non-cp campaign. No one is taking your 1000 CPs away, no is saying you don't get to use them, I'm just saying I want to play in a campaign where no one gets to use them including me. You don't have to join the campaign. But I think a lot of players would better enjoy a campaign without CPs. You play the way you want, and let us play the way we want1