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Racial options....
PlagueMonk
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I was thinking about how the current racials in general pigeonhole races into certain classes/builds and think they should be re-tooled instead with options so one could tailor their race to have at least some sync with the class/build you would like to play.
To that end I would like to propose the following (using Argonians as an example):
- Ditch "Xxxxxx Expertise" - I put pts into this originally because I didn't know better but have long since specced out of it. This ability only helps very select builds and ONLY until you are lvl 50, then it's useless. These expertise racials I am pretty sure no one really uses.
- The first level in all options is FREE. It's what the race is. You don't have to spend points on them, you start with them.
- You are allowed to spend 6 pts on upgrades across the 5 options.
Amphibian Physiology:
(*) Increases swimming speed by 50%
(+1) Reduces potion cool-down by 5 seconds and returns 5% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina when a potion is consumed.
(+2) Reduces potion cool-down by 10 seconds and returns 10% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina when a potion is consumed.
Argonian Fitness:
(*) Increases Max Health by 3%
(+1) Increases Max Health by 6%.
(+2) Increases Max Health by 9%.
Argonian Hardiness:
(*) Increases Poison /Disease Resistance by 375. Increase Physical Resistance by 1000
(+1) Increases Poison /Disease Resistance by 750. Increase Physical Resistance by 2000. (must be lvl 30 to invest)
(+2) Increases Poison /Disease Resistance by 1500. Increase Physical Resistance by 4000. (must be V1 to invest)
Gift of the Hist:
(*) Increases healing received by 5%.
(+1) Increases healing received by 10% and health regeneration by 10%.
(+2) Increases healing received by 15% and health regeneration by 20%
Guerrilla Warfare Expertise:
(*) Increases speed while stealthed by 10%
(+1) Increases speed while stealthed by 15% and stamina/magicka regeneration by 10% while in stealth.
(+2) Increases speed while stealthed by 20% and stamina/magicka regeneration by 20% while in stealth.
* = Free
I would personally like to remove the link to potions entirely and add something else but to not rock the boat too much I have left it in.
Also a shout out to tinythinker for their contribution to this idea. I know I changed a number a things (including removal of your swimming damage reduction) but I thought scaling things back might be a good idea.
To that end I would like to propose the following (using Argonians as an example):
- Ditch "Xxxxxx Expertise" - I put pts into this originally because I didn't know better but have long since specced out of it. This ability only helps very select builds and ONLY until you are lvl 50, then it's useless. These expertise racials I am pretty sure no one really uses.
- The first level in all options is FREE. It's what the race is. You don't have to spend points on them, you start with them.
- You are allowed to spend 6 pts on upgrades across the 5 options.
Amphibian Physiology:
(*) Increases swimming speed by 50%
(+1) Reduces potion cool-down by 5 seconds and returns 5% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina when a potion is consumed.
(+2) Reduces potion cool-down by 10 seconds and returns 10% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina when a potion is consumed.
Argonian Fitness:
(*) Increases Max Health by 3%
(+1) Increases Max Health by 6%.
(+2) Increases Max Health by 9%.
Argonian Hardiness:
(*) Increases Poison /Disease Resistance by 375. Increase Physical Resistance by 1000
(+1) Increases Poison /Disease Resistance by 750. Increase Physical Resistance by 2000. (must be lvl 30 to invest)
(+2) Increases Poison /Disease Resistance by 1500. Increase Physical Resistance by 4000. (must be V1 to invest)
Gift of the Hist:
(*) Increases healing received by 5%.
(+1) Increases healing received by 10% and health regeneration by 10%.
(+2) Increases healing received by 15% and health regeneration by 20%
Guerrilla Warfare Expertise:
(*) Increases speed while stealthed by 10%
(+1) Increases speed while stealthed by 15% and stamina/magicka regeneration by 10% while in stealth.
(+2) Increases speed while stealthed by 20% and stamina/magicka regeneration by 20% while in stealth.
* = Free
I would personally like to remove the link to potions entirely and add something else but to not rock the boat too much I have left it in.
Also a shout out to tinythinker for their contribution to this idea. I know I changed a number a things (including removal of your swimming damage reduction) but I thought scaling things back might be a good idea.
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MrGrimey✭✭✭✭✭I agree, I hate that if I want to respec my NB to a magic NB, then I need to redo my race or else I won't be as efficient. Same with switching from tank to magic DK, stamina to magic Templar. Sorcery is no problem since stamina sorc is trash, lol2 -
nordsavage✭✭✭✭✭Racial passive and character builds go hand in hand in ALL Elder Scrolls games. Deal with it. This is not every other MMO you play. Welcome to Tamriel.I didn't choose tank life, tank life chose me.0 -
Paulhewhewria✭✭✭nordsavage wrote: »Racial passive and character builds go hand in hand in ALL Elder Scrolls games. Deal with it. This is not every other MMO you play. Welcome to Tamriel.
Part of me wants to say this^ ,but even you got to admit the Argonian passives are crap.0 -
RooBeeO✭✭nordsavage wrote: »Racial passive and character builds go hand in hand in ALL Elder Scrolls games. Deal with it. This is not every other MMO you play. Welcome to Tamriel.
Yet playing any race with any faction does not, however this version of the game you can. Why is that? If they can allow this then why not allow what the OP wants or a version of it also.0 -
J2JMC✭✭✭✭✭While Argonians definitely need a buff, look at King Richard's redguard sorc. To get the highest possible stats racial passives are definitely beneficial. In terms of just getting enough stats to reach a certain threshold of what could be considered powerful, race generally does not matter.Knee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert0 -
nordsavage✭✭✭✭✭nordsavage wrote: »Racial passive and character builds go hand in hand in ALL Elder Scrolls games. Deal with it. This is not every other MMO you play. Welcome to Tamriel.
Yet playing any race with any faction does not, however this version of the game you can. Why is that? If they can allow this then why not allow what the OP wants or a version of it also.
In Tamriel lore and across the games there are many instances of races that establish communities in foreign regions, merchants who roam, displaced refugees etc.. There many established and logical reasons why the factions would have subjects that consist of the opposing races. The Empire wasn't always broken apart.Edited by nordsavage on August 10, 2015 6:23AMI didn't choose tank life, tank life chose me.1 -
NTclaymore✭✭✭✭While im sure this is another one of those threads about argonians being weak ESO was forced to follow
what previos elder scrolls game have laid out for them.
Argonians has been giving buffs in Water in the other games. they had to include that here while it is pretty useless.
Reason why nords resist Cold n dunmers fire.
Reason why high-elf gets offensive magicka traits while Bretons gets defensive.
About the part where you should not be spending skillpoints in the racial tree.
i disagree. Theres enough skillpoints in the game so it shouldnt be a problem even if you get all crafts on 1 charrecter
(like me) it shouldnt be free because your race doesnt have to be a part of your build. Any race can fit any role.
even argonians can be made awesome anything. the extra niche the racial buffs gives shouldnt be needed and should be optional. even if it Means spending extra skillpointsHe spoke, the son of Padomay, and nodded his head with the dark brows
and the imortally anointed hair of the great god
swept from his divine head, and all Mundus was shaken.0 -
PlagueMonk✭✭✭✭✭NTclaymore wrote: »While im sure this is another one of those threads about argonians being weak ESO was forced to follow
what previos elder scrolls game have laid out for them.
Argonians has been giving buffs in Water in the other games. they had to include that here while it is pretty useless.
Reason why nords resist Cold n dunmers fire.
Reason why high-elf gets offensive magicka traits while Bretons gets defensive.
And Argonians poison and disease resistance......and everything else I put into the options above. All of it fits with what Argonians in past games can do (with a bit of creative thinking and staying within ESOs game mechanics)
If you really insist I can find an old thread where I posted excerpts from all of the past ES games about Argonian abilities or you can just believe me when I say it fits the lore.
About the part where you should not be spending skillpoints in the racial tree.
i disagree. Theres enough skillpoints in the game so it shouldnt be a problem even if you get all crafts on 1 charrecter
(like me) it shouldnt be free because your race doesnt have to be a part of your build. Any race can fit any role.
even argonians can be made awesome anything. the extra niche the racial buffs gives shouldnt be needed and should be optional. even if it Means spending extra skillpoints
Ah, you seem to have missed how my idea functions. You only get the FIRST level in each skill line for free. You are then only allowed to spend a total of 6 points to upgrade the other abilities. This means you could fully upgrade 3 abilities while leaving 2 at base level, or all 5 options at level 2 withe one more pt you can upgrade to lvl 3......etc.
Again, this won't necessarily help an Argonian become say a great mage....being able to get bonuses from pots and regen mag in stealth are of some help but pale in comparison to what say HEs racials for being a mage. An Argonian mage could also upgrade Gift of the Hist to gain extra armor which is always good for a lt. armor user.....As I said, some small degree of sync.
You all seem to have missed the greater point though....while yes, this did start out as something posted in one of the Argonian threads, I was really hoping people will jump on the band wagon and come up with similar profiles for the other races.
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tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
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The original version (which isn't an Argonian buff thread, just uses them as an example) also has an example for Nords. I prefer not to give the first passive away though, new players get progression by upgrading more. Haven't had time to do other races, but I've got some work done on a couple. Just added Dunmer.PlagueMonk wrote: »You all seem to have missed the greater point though....while yes, this did start out as something posted in one of the Argonian threads, I was really hoping people will jump on the band wagon and come up with similar profiles for the other races.
Edited by tinythinker on August 11, 2015 3:13AM❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
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Support Mudcrab Mode for ESO (\/)!_!(\/) - part joke, part serious, all glorious! You butter be ready for this0 -
AshTal✭✭✭✭I like racials in a game but they need to be balanced, by adding more choice and having us pick the lore accurate racial s not only are we less pigeon holed the devs should have an easy time balancing them because they would be able to put a number of identical racials just with different names on each race.0
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Tdroid✭✭✭nordsavage wrote: »Racial passive and character builds go hand in hand in ALL Elder Scrolls games. Deal with it. This is not every other MMO you play. Welcome to Tamriel.
Except the main games does less to min/max your character than ESO, with only the Bretons and Altmer as exceptions. And in Skyrim, only the Altmer. Yes, each race have a passive and/or activated ability that is unique to that race, and they have attribute/skill differences as starting values. However, nothing about being a Nord or Redguard keeps you from maxing out your speechcraft to be on par with Imperials, or Bosmer from levelling their strength and endurance to be on par with Nords and Orcs. The skill bonuses are a nice guideline for what has the most synergy with the arrtibutes, but they are no more important than the +15% exp for X skill line we have in ESO.
This is where ESO goes a bit different from the main series. In the main games, 2(1 in Skyrim) of the 10 races have a bonus to max magicka that cannot be matched by the other races, while the rest of the racial identity is either taken from passive resistances(Frost, Fire and Magic, f.ex) or activated abilities(Battlecry and Voice of the Emperor f.ex). The resistances are nice, but very situational(except Breton magic resist in Oblivion, that was way too powerful with the change to resist magic from Morrowind), and the activated abilities are also usually situational and, more importantly, short lived with a full in-game day cooldown. Sure, for those 60 seconds the Orcs will be the most badass warrior ever, but the remaining time they will be no more good as warriors than the Altmer are. And, for the most part, worse than most other races that have a passive ability that can save their life.
ESO goes much further when it comes to passives for the races and it simply makes it so that you cannot play unconventional race/build settups as effectively as you can in the main series. For example, in Skyrim, my Nord mage is just as good as my Breton or Dark Elf mage, but, in ESO, my Nord mage cannot be as good as my Breton or Dark Elf mage.0 -
Miwerton✭✭✭An option ive said in another thread was to make so each of the 3 passives from race line let you choose 3 options for what to have as a the racial bonus on that tier, To better choose what fits what have you thought out for that character.
Would also be benficial to dunmer who dont need the fire talent when not a dk, and also make it so that Argonians arent a tank race, which is doubly bizzare since Argonia/ Black marsh is the last place you would want to be clad in heavy armor.
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TheValkyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭An option ive said in another thread was to make so each of the 3 passives from race line let you choose 3 options for what to have as a the racial bonus on that tier, To better choose what fits what have you thought out for that character.
Would also be benficial to dunmer who dont need the fire talent when not a dk, and also make it so that Argonians arent a tank race, which is doubly bizzare since Argonia/ Black marsh is the last place you would want to be clad in heavy armor.
If I remember correctly there was a group of Dunmer slavers that were quite literally cooked alive in their plate armor.0 -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I play Bosmer for all my classes (Bosmer master race) despite most of them being magicka. Argonains do have a pretty useless passive (swim speed, how much do you swim honestly, its not even like you can fight in water)
I DO however, want them to bring back Racial ultimates.~Thallen~0 -
Miwerton✭✭✭Perhaps not directly ultimates but more of a passive that could be trigerred uniqe to the race.
Examples:
Bosmer: % chance to make wildlife friendly and to fight for you, die when effects ends.
Dunmer: % chance when low on health for an ancestral spirit to be summoned and aid you.
Altmer: % chance when low on magicka to trigger highborn for increased magicka regen
Redguard: % chane when low on stamina to trigger adrenaline rush for increased stamina regen.0 -
Helluin✭✭✭For Bosmer something related to wildlife or bow can be interesting.
Speaking about racial passive in game, if Magelight goes live as it is on PTS, Stealthy (Bosmer & Khajiit) could be reworked or replaced by something else.
About Argonian: honestly I don't dislike Amphibious but there are races surely with better racial skills.
Too bad NB's Catalyst is not what it was, Catalyst + Amphibious was really good imho."... and the blue fire of Helluin flickered in the mists above the borders of the world, in that hour the Children of the Earth awoke, the Firstborn of Ilúvatar."0 -
PlagueMonk✭✭✭✭✭Holy necroing a thread Batman!
I didn't intend resurrecting this thread with the link to it from the other thread.0 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭The base idea (same as tinythinkers) is really nice but it would be a a lot of work for zos for very marginal benefit (for zos that is - compared to new content or skill lines or even bug fixes).
I hope they buff Argonian and Nord passives in the race revamp but I suspect it won't be anything so complex or complete.0 -
joleda4ub17_ESO✭✭✭nordsavage wrote: »Racial passive and character builds go hand in hand in ALL Elder Scrolls games. Deal with it. This is not every other MMO you play. Welcome to Tamriel.
Translated: I am smarter/better/bigger than you for min-maxing my character from day one. Deal with it.0