I play a game for fun. Once a game becomes more work than a real job, I stop playing it. I would rather go get a second real job and make real money to spend on doing something more fun than playing a game that makes me work too much.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe you don't think of it as a grind and think of it as oh I don't know maybe as new content ? Just saying stuff tends to come to those who just play instead of grinding.

Ok, but what happens when you complete the new content? You have to do it over and over again to progress your character, and that's when it becomes a grind

Yeah, this'll be a 12 month thing for me.
I will get my VR15 gear and be done with it. Honestly VR16 is too much work for a casual like myself.

Glass motif I'll (very slowly) accumulate.

All my excitement about this DLC is gone. I really don't care about it anymore. As far as I'm concerned it's just 2 new dungeons and a bunch of nerfs.

Whatever.

I haven't played in over 2 months, but i have been following the forums to keep up to speed with ZOS's developments. all of my friends stopped playing this game because of the VR System and the Gear treadmill that follows it. we all quit WoW back in the day for the same reason and since have stayed clear of games that believe in this as content.

when ZOS brought in the Campion system i was excited, but that did not last once it was clear it was based of a percentile vertical progression. still, i think the Champion system could be altered to actually work. however what upsets me the most, is the fact that they have gone back on their word for removing Vet Levels. To add insult to injury, not only are they bringing the gear/grind treadmill back (which to me was the whole point in removing VR levels and replacing it with the champion system!), they are making it TEN TIMES harder to accomplish. now, if that is not a slap in the face, i don't know what is. they can claim all they want that VR levels are going away, but the Gear treadmill is certainly here to stay.

its sad really, that a company has to use old MMO tricks on their customer base. so many great ideas have been shared on this forum for ways to improve current systems. they should be thinking of activities and systems that engage players to work with or against one another (hello Ark Age before it went PTW!?!?!). this was the company's chance to be innovative and original, but they have decided to play it safe and the game (and it's community) has suffered for it.

I wont be buying into their schemes personally, ill keep an eye on how things progress. as it stands, they have made mistake over mistake over mistake and it doesn't look like they are learning from them anytime soon.

As is becoming obvious, layers of RNG only make things worse.

Zsymon wrote: »

The grind in ESO is nothing compared to that of many MMOs, especially Asian ones.

In most MMOs it takes endless grinding of mats and gold just to level up your crafting skills, in ESO this is so much better.

Grinding for the sake of grinding is simply poor design, not to mention, judging by this update we can guess future content will expand the grinds even more so that ESO will soon become grind-centric like the MMOs you mention. This is worth discussing because it goes against what ZOS said they would do with the B2P switch, and deadens the otherwise great game they've created.

I'm concerned that ZOS is attempting to deliberately limit the appeal of the game to hardcore players with nothing to do with their time other than play, which is not something I support. I play the game a fair bit (I got it 4 months ago and have a literal month of playtime at least, in hours), but I can handle it as it has been because it's kept me entertained and engaged, there's nothing entertaining or engaging about grinding for DAYS, which is what it would take to get even one of the IC things accrued. I don't want to waste all my time running around in circles for a tragically low payout, even Nirncrux pushes the limits of how much time I'm willing to spend walking around in circles, and let's not even get started on Perfect Roe and Psijic Ambrosia fragments. How about keeping the game accessible to your player-base instead of narrowing it into a niche? I love Elder Scrolls but I don't know how patient I can be with this magnitude of time wasting, which is what I have to call it because there's no clever way to avoid it, because of how much is left to chance. If you include a way for people to be challenged more for a greater payout I'll be fine with all this ridiculous masochism, but as things stand there's not going to be room for success unless you're rich or grind all the time.

helediron wrote: »

It is a mistake to put basic crafting materials behind a big grind. That unnecessarily limits crafted gear choices. When at vr16 having epic vr16 gear should be the norm. There is already limited supply of golden impovements (well not for wax currently, oink). ZOS, let people craft new sets, test and try. Making them golden and kuta glyphed is already limited with hireling changes.

Putting 150 mats to vr16 is a cheap trick. ZoS developed nothing new to crafting, just extended current system tables. Instead of improving top level crafting they squeeze it at the bottom when making white vr16 gear. There is nothing new to achieve for top crafters for better gear. This is just dumbing down crafting.

My suggestion is to rename Colossus Ingots to Just Another Brick in the Wall, Daedric Skin to Masochist's Skin and Harvestor Silk to Torn Hair of the Grinder.

Not only putting 150mats to VR16 but also rigging VR15/VR16 materials to give NOT MORE than one single piece of crafting material upon deconstructing.
And in addition to that LIMITING VR15/VR16 gear drops practically only to the DLC. Because ZOS decided that every other player is not worthy of obtaining VR15/VR16 gear outside of IC, so they decided that even if old dungeons will scale up to VR16, the monsters inside wont drop VR16 gear (only bosses and minibosses will have a chance to drop deconstruction gear, in this case we are looking at top 6 pieces of gear to be obtained after single run of old dungeon).

When he game began the grinds were fairly reasonable with the exception of the vr system.

The steady increase in grindy pointless content has been steadily ruining the game.

What is really worring in prespective - how it will look with next dlc's? 500 materials for 1 piece of vr 18 gear? And then?

LadyDestiny wrote: »

WarlordGrievous wrote: »

FloppyFrank wrote: »

ESO is starting to turn more into work and less like a game

Hate to say it,but yeah this sums up my feels as well.

Yeah some of this seems like a horrible long grind for a pvp zone. I haven't even finished nirnhoned and would like to work on a different class for awhile. Most time is spent farming for tempers and to keep up with writs. Oh and sorting the unstackable guild bank. I farmed for all my motifs on all three crafters that needed them. This time I may just fork over the cash and be done with it.

I'll bet my bottom dollar that someone at ZOS read your last sentence and thought, "working as intended".

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Updated OP with relevant changes from newest patch, 2.1.1.

I do not enjoy grinding either ... but well... there are so many buts.

What is end game content to you? What would replace the 'grind'? Personally, I would like some pvp Arenas and maybe a pve solo arena, but meh that opens a whole other can of worms.

Thanks for the update. We will see how this all pans out.