The Dragonknight in 1.7

AssaultLemming · August 2015

Mystikkal wrote: »

Just wait until people start having enough champion points to start putting them into DoT damage reduction... RIP DK

I already put points in that because of siege fire dots...

Vynn · August 2015

I find the burns to be ok for dmg. Maybe slightly low for magicka builds since unstable flame is stam only. But our real problem is a lack of a good finisher IMO(and no I do not count weapon executes as they require a stamina build, which should not be a requirement). The other classes have effective finishers(ones that don't require you to activate, GDC, hold for a FULL heavy attack, and hope than the enemy has not healed, dodged or something of the like during your little "break from doing something useful"). This ability is combat ineffective and is absolute garbage. Eric Wroebel, if you see this, please consider retooling this to an ability that is actually useable.

aco5712 · August 2015

Vynn wrote: »

I find the burns to be ok for dmg. Maybe slightly low for magicka builds since unstable flame is stam only. But our real problem is a lack of a good finisher IMO(and no I do not count weapon executes as they require a stamina build, which should not be a requirement). The other classes have effective finishers(ones that don't require you to activate, GDC, hold for a FULL heavy attack, and hope than the enemy has not healed, dodged or something of the like during your little "break from doing something useful"). This ability is combat ineffective and is absolute garbage. Eric Wroebel, if you see this, please consider retooling this to an ability that is actually useable.

maybe replace it with a buff that increases our damage while the enemy is under 25% by 100% or something

Soris · August 2015

Vynn wrote: »

I find the burns to be ok for dmg. Maybe slightly low for magicka builds since unstable flame is stam only. But our real problem is a lack of a good finisher IMO(and no I do not count weapon executes as they require a stamina build, which should not be a requirement). The other classes have effective finishers(ones that don't require you to activate, GDC, hold for a FULL heavy attack, and hope than the enemy has not healed, dodged or something of the like during your little "break from doing something useful"). This ability is combat ineffective and is absolute garbage. Eric Wroebel, if you see this, please consider retooling this to an ability that is actually useable.

Before 1.6 templar get jesus beam, i was using 2h execute as magicka build. It is cheap and good damage even for magic build. You might think using that. Better than heavy attacks with molten i guess.

Armitas · August 2015

Forgot to mention this nerf to the dragon knight passive "Kindling" - increases the damage of the burning effect.

Per patch notes.

Standardized the chance an ability has to apply a secondary effect, such as burning, chilled, or concussed. These chances are:

Weapon enchants 20%
Standard ability 10%
Area of effect abilities 5%
Damage over time abilities 3%
Area of effect damage over time abilities 1%

The chance to apply burning and actually make use of the kindling passive is now substantially less.

Also with the power lash now doing 25% more damage against off balance targets this new set may pair well with us. I can only see the helm so I don't know what pieces are available.

Armor of Truth - Heavy
2 - Weapon Critical
3 - Max Stamina
4 - Weapon Damage
5 - 12% more damage against stunned or Off-Balance Targets.

Jolinius · August 2015

Yeah in pts dks are just garbage now.They just keep nerfing them like i dont get it ....feel like im taking crazy pills or something. In live right now dks are juat alright theyre not op in any way....yes theyre tanky but they dont hit hard and most of their skills are negated by shields.Now in pts they do so little damage that its laughable . All the skills have been nerfed into uselessness. Really once this goes live no reason to play dk anymore....which makes me sad. Pretty much the thing im seeing is magic dks respeccing into stam dks but stam templars and nbs > stam dks.

R.I.P. dks ill miss you

Armitas · August 2015

Yeah I'm thinking of going into stam as well after 1.7. Its the only way I can get any defense.

I can't get it from light armor because of the damage overflow problem and now shields are critable.
I can't get it from actual armor because people have 100% impen.
I can't get it from block because it's broke outside of certain very tight builds that do nothing for damage or being an effective member of the alliance.

So the only defense available to me is dodge chance from medium armor. I don't want to, but I feel I have no other option due to the continual procession of poor decisions.

Ishammael · August 2015

Armitas wrote: »

Yeah I'm thinking of going into stam as well after 1.7. Its the only way I can get any defense.
I can't get it from light armor because of the damage overflow problem and now shields are critable.

I can't get it from actual armor because people have 100% impen.

I can't get it from block because it's broke outside of certain very tight builds that do nothing for damage or being an effective member of the alliance.

So the only defense available to me is dodge chance from medium armor. I don't want to, but I feel I have no other option due to the continual procession of poor decisions.

Armitas, I don't think it's doom and gloom quite yet for magicka DKs. Here's why: you can still use shuffle as your stam sink, you get shields, resto staff healing, and better flexibility with skills.

Unfortunately the 50% heal nerf has completely wiped out most of the DK class synergy. (Double nerf on inhale and embers, gdb now useless) What I think isn't readily apparent when people look at DK skills is how well the work together. That is, the power of the class is skill combinations rather than the raw damage or heal of the skill itself. For instance: igneous, gdb, inhale; talons, engulfing, whip; petrify, leap, whip, talons; and so forth.

Edit: even after writing all that, going stam and spamming hidden blade may simply be better....

Armitas · August 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Yeah I'm thinking of going into stam as well after 1.7. Its the only way I can get any defense.
I can't get it from light armor because of the damage overflow problem and now shields are critable.

I can't get it from actual armor because people have 100% impen.

I can't get it from block because it's broke outside of certain very tight builds that do nothing for damage or being an effective member of the alliance.

So the only defense available to me is dodge chance from medium armor. I don't want to, but I feel I have no other option due to the continual procession of poor decisions.

Armitas, I don't think it's doom and gloom quite yet for magicka DKs. Here's why: you can still use shuffle as your stam sink, you get shields, resto staff healing, and better flexibility with skills.

That's true, Shuffle works well with shields because the shield can dodge an attack and last longer. I used to use that but didn't have the stamina, but i've got the stam now so I'm putting that back on.

I'd also like to see if I can overcome the healing problem with quick recovery from CP along with hot heals and use heavy armor with spell damage. The full heavy requirement of igneous will give me a lot of magicka restore on each weave and the hots might help me live through the charges. But that will only work if I can break through their healing nerf.

Lykurgis · August 2015

xylena wrote: »

good solution: significantly reduce damage output while you're holding block

I actually put that as feedback on the last 2 patches on PTS.

you gain 50% reduced damage while holing block, should also cause 50% less damage while holding block as well for an offset.

Ishammael · August 2015

Lykurgis wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

good solution: significantly reduce damage output while you're holding block

I actually put that as feedback on the last 2 patches on PTS.

you gain 50% reduced damage while holing block, should also cause 50% less damage while holding block as well for an offset.

Really like this suggestion as well.

Armitas wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Yeah I'm thinking of going into stam as well after 1.7. Its the only way I can get any defense.
I can't get it from light armor because of the damage overflow problem and now shields are critable.

I can't get it from actual armor because people have 100% impen.

I can't get it from block because it's broke outside of certain very tight builds that do nothing for damage or being an effective member of the alliance.

So the only defense available to me is dodge chance from medium armor. I don't want to, but I feel I have no other option due to the continual procession of poor decisions.

Armitas, I don't think it's doom and gloom quite yet for magicka DKs. Here's why: you can still use shuffle as your stam sink, you get shields, resto staff healing, and better flexibility with skills.

That's true, Shuffle works well with shields because the shield can dodge an attack and last longer. I used to use that but didn't have the stamina, but i've got the stam now so I'm putting that back on.

I'd also like to see if I can overcome the healing problem with quick recovery from CP along with hot heals and use heavy armor with spell damage. The full heavy requirement of igneous will give me a lot of magicka restore on each weave and the hots might help me live through the charges. But that will only work if I can break through their healing nerf.

I don't think heavy will be viable. But then, I haven't been able to test as much as I'd like. My initial impression is to go 5l/1h/1m, shuffle, shields, and resto staff heals (mutagen or blessing of resto). With damage reduced, you need the spell pen and critical from light armor passives.

vortexman11 · August 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

I don't think heavy will be viable. But then, I haven't been able to test as much as I'd like. My initial impression is to go 5l/1h/1m, shuffle, shields, and resto staff heals (mutagen or blessing of resto). With damage reduced, you need the spell pen and critical from light armor passives.

I'd have to agree with you, although heavy has its bonuses, such as increased healing received and decreased damage taken (until you run into a NB using maces) it's just not worth it. I'd say 1.7 is closer to 1.5 in the fact that you can't get both good sustain and good damage when in heavy armour. Of course only time will tell what builds come up, but I see much greater importance in the reduce cost/increase magicka regen passives in 1.7 than I did in 1.6 because I find myself having to use up jewelry enchant spots for spell damage in order to not tickle

Armitas · August 2015

vortexman11 wrote: »

Of course only time will tell what builds come up, but I see much greater importance in the reduce cost/increase magicka regen passives in 1.7 than I did in 1.6 because I find myself having to use up jewelry enchant spots for spell damage in order to not tickle

Is that from the damage nerf requiring more casts of a damage skill which in turn requires more magicka?

vortexman11 · August 2015

Armitas wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Of course only time will tell what builds come up, but I see much greater importance in the reduce cost/increase magicka regen passives in 1.7 than I did in 1.6 because I find myself having to use up jewelry enchant spots for spell damage in order to not tickle

Is that from the damage nerf requiring more casts of a damage skill which in turn requires more magicka?

That's basically it, you either do that or simply stack more spell damage to make your skills hit harder, either way, I don't see a viable way to play a damage dealing magicka DK in heavy armour at the moment

Armitas · August 2015

vortexman11 wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Of course only time will tell what builds come up, but I see much greater importance in the reduce cost/increase magicka regen passives in 1.7 than I did in 1.6 because I find myself having to use up jewelry enchant spots for spell damage in order to not tickle

Is that from the damage nerf requiring more casts of a damage skill which in turn requires more magicka?

That's basically it, you either do that or simply stack more spell damage to make your skills hit harder, either way, I don't see a viable way to play a damage dealing magicka DK in heavy armour at the moment

Bummer, even with the magicka restore on heavy staff attacks? It can go up to 25% more with CP Though I've never sat down and tried it's effectiveness. I was hoping to tie that with igenous and get most of my damage from heavies.

vortexman11 · August 2015

Armitas wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Of course only time will tell what builds come up, but I see much greater importance in the reduce cost/increase magicka regen passives in 1.7 than I did in 1.6 because I find myself having to use up jewelry enchant spots for spell damage in order to not tickle

Is that from the damage nerf requiring more casts of a damage skill which in turn requires more magicka?

That's basically it, you either do that or simply stack more spell damage to make your skills hit harder, either way, I don't see a viable way to play a damage dealing magicka DK in heavy armour at the moment

Bummer, even with the magicka restore on heavy staff attacks? It can go up to 25% more with CP Though I've never sat down and tried it's effectiveness. I was hoping to tie that with igenous and get most of my damage from heavies.

It's worth a try, but that champ passive only really becomes useful once you get around 700 CPs since you can just put points in Magician for reduced cost and Arcanist for Regen. Not to mention heavy attacks take foooorrreevvverr to charge, might be a good idea to use a weighted staff with it

Armitas · August 2015

Update. Armor pen is being fixed.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

......
As an aside... we also fixed the armor penetration issue with the sharpened and piercing traits.

This is a big change to magicka DK, especially with the light armor value buff. 5 light 2 medium with sword and board, volatile armor and bloodspawn guise is a whole lot of mitigation. Throw in some CP and you can easily reach Armor cap in light armor. I'm at ~45% mitigation on live with this build and 2 werewolf rings and 0 CP invested, some of that comes form nord though. Throw in Igneous on top of that (they appear to be fixing shield bug) and we could be very powerful indeed. Oh yeah, bloodspawn can trigger through shields now so things are looking very, very good right now.

Ishammael · August 2015

Armitas wrote: »

Update. Armor pen is being fixed.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

......
As an aside... we also fixed the armor penetration issue with the sharpened and piercing traits.

This is a big change to magicka DK, especially with the light armor value buff. 5 light 2 medium with sword and board, volatile armor and bloodspawn guise is a whole lot of mitigation. Throw in some CP and you can easily reach Armor cap in light armor. I'm at ~45% mitigation on live with this build and 2 werewolf rings and 0 CP invested, some of that comes form nord though. Throw in Igneous on top of that (they appear to be fixing shield bug) and we could be very powerful indeed. Oh yeah, bloodspawn can trigger through shields now so things are looking very, very good right now.

Yes this is good news. I think I'll still shoot for 1h/1m. Volatile armor plus bloodspawn proc gets you +11k armor. I still think we are stuck with resto staff in the off bar unless the gdb heal is fixed. (Fingers crossed that they fix the double nerf of draw essence)

actosh · August 2015

Ill wait until tests prove that it is fixed.

Armitas · August 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Update. Armor pen is being fixed.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

......
As an aside... we also fixed the armor penetration issue with the sharpened and piercing traits.

This is a big change to magicka DK, especially with the light armor value buff. 5 light 2 medium with sword and board, volatile armor and bloodspawn guise is a whole lot of mitigation. Throw in some CP and you can easily reach Armor cap in light armor. I'm at ~45% mitigation on live with this build and 2 werewolf rings and 0 CP invested, some of that comes form nord though. Throw in Igneous on top of that (they appear to be fixing shield bug) and we could be very powerful indeed. Oh yeah, bloodspawn can trigger through shields now so things are looking very, very good right now.

Yes this is good news. I think I'll still shoot for 1h/1m. Volatile armor plus bloodspawn proc gets you +11k armor. I still think we are stuck with resto staff in the off bar unless the gdb heal is fixed. (Fingers crossed that they fix the double nerf of draw essence)

Yeah thats my plan too. sticking with resto and rapid regen on my off bar. Always loved that skill, cheap cast, fire and forget, and i'll probably replace gdb with healing ward if it's not fixed.

tist · August 2015

They need to scrap molten armaments.. Way too situational and difficult to pull off in PVP. It requires a GCD, Fully charged heavy attack and the opponent to stand still with their thumbs...

Erock25 · August 2015

tist wrote: »

They need to scrap molten armaments.. Way too situational and difficult to pull off in PVP. It requires a GCD, Fully charged heavy attack and the opponent to stand still with their thumbs...

thumbs as in plural? Ouch.

Garwulf · August 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

As a non-dk, I can tell you that Ferocious Leap his HARD. I've taken quite a few 12k Ferocious Leaps to the face and because of how the animation priority system works, it's very easy to layer that with a wrecking blow plus heavy attack. Very good burst.

Try using it in any large PVP fight and you will likely get stuck in the animation and die. Of course I am only talking theoretically as we all know there is no lag if any kind in Cyrodiil. Havet heoreciticaly been in fights in PVP where the ping rate was over 20k. You could feel the non existent'lag creaping up as you stood there waiting in anticipation of the coming fight.

Back in the real workd of ESO where there is no lag, Ferocious leap and Wrecking blow are excellent choices....

Armitas · August 2015

Elder Dragon - Increase health recovery by 5% for each draconic ability slotted.

Health recovery is only useful when there is no one healing you and you can not sustain the healing cost yourself. That is essentially what health recovery is, a free minor hot to keep you up when no one else is around to, and you can't afford it yourself. If you are tanking for your group you are relying on inc healing and blocking spike damage, not health recovery. If you are in PvP a single disease attack will reduce your health recovery to 50% making any crazy build you made worthless. There is no situation other than soloing a dungeon in which this stat is notably valuable.

I would like to see this passive changed to +X% weapon base damage while equipping a sword and board. What I mean here is the listed damage on the weapon, not weapon/spell power in your character page.

Here is why. Current changes to stamina and blocking aside, our class is deeply tied to sword and board due to our lack of ranged attacks, lack of a working class gap closer, and our iron skin passive giving us 10% more block mitigation. However last update in 1.6, we took a significant loss in spell damage due to the changes to base spell/weapon damage which now come from weapons... of which s/b is one of the weakest. This would be a nice boost to our lack luster class specific damage in pvp while being congruent with our class archetype. By making the passive increase base weapon damage it also boosts stamina DKs by buffing s/b abilities as well as weapon strike damage.