Zsymon wrote: »

ZOS made these changes because everyone agreed damage spikes were too high, and TTK was too low. This only served solo streamers. ZOS reacted to these requests and they lowered damage spikes and increased TTK, which is what we asked.

Now suddenly damage is too low and it needs to go up again? And when it goes up we resume complaining about dying too fast again? What the hell do you people want?

I agree with the OP, ZOS needs to stand their ground and allow people to adjust before reacting in panic to the wailing of the few.

PvP should not be about a few elite 1vXers who destroy everyone while all others are left in the dust. Those streams are fun to watch sure, but such game play is unattainable for most people. I'd say death to the streamers and hooray to the majority of us normals. If everyone having more fun means no more 1vX streams, then I say bring it on.

Sypher, Aetcha and King Richard discussed the problems with 1.7 in detail last night. The idea is to reduce the 50% damage reduction to 40% or 35% as this would provide just enough burst to exploit an opponent's mistake. Similarly, resource management is lopsided in favor of Magicka builds since Magicka regen is not affected by blocking and allows them to DPS and CC break when needed. There were far more detailed explanations covering most of the PTS issues and they said they plan to do a podcast very soon discussing everything.

Also, you only need to look at the knee-jerk reaction ZoS is having with damage shields to understand that they do not understand how to properly balance their game. Anyone who has every professionally tested a product understands that you fix/minimize the existing faults before changing non-essential mechanics/dimensions as this creates entirely separate issues. ZoS still hasn't fixed the glitches associated with damage shields on PTS yet they are ready to apply crit damage to them while a known bug affects overflow damage. That's like having multiple coders alter the same live code at the same time; it's a recipe for disaster in most cases.

So yes, ZoS understands the direction they want their game to go but no, they do not understand how the in-game mechanics are applied to get things right without help from the players. This is the entire point of the PTS. Please note that ZoS has a history of ignoring PTS feedback and this is why so many issues still exist currently and need to be addressed yet again. Not all PTS feedback is correct but there are many suggestions that would vastly improve the foundation that ZoS has proposed.

Lastly, you seem to be against skilled players such as the popular streamers when their skill implies they have a much better understanding of the game's mechanics than most casuals do. Isn't purposely working against their feedback counterintuitive to the game's balance? I mean you don't ask John from accounting about IT just because he uses an email account; you ask the person with a proper understanding of the field in question. As IC is mostly PvP content, you ask the best PvP'ers you can find for feedback.

timidobserver wrote: »

I have a lot of respect for many of our streamers, but everybody should have their opinion weighed equally.

While I disagree, let's assess your statement. Who is 'everybody' and how do we weight their opinion if they haven't commented on an issue?

timidobserver wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I have a lot of respect for many of our streamers, but everybody should have their opinion weighed equally.

While I disagree, let's assess your statement. Who is 'everybody' and how do we weight their opinion if they haven't commented on an issue?

FYI I not going to participate in debate of semantics and feigned misunderstanding with you. If you can't discern the intent of my statement I am content with you remaining ignorant of it.

I expected an attack for a statement that cannot be defended. Honestly, let's think about it... the PTS changes affect everyone equally, including console players yet their opinion is uninformed both based on less experience playing ESO and the inability to actually test the PTS changes. Many PC players are not participating in the PTS, does their opinion also count equally? Many players participating in the PTS have not tested the mechanics in question, does their opinion matter more or less than the previous two groups? What about players that are just doing the PvE dungeons since IC is mostly PvP focussed? Lastly, what about those players that have spent 25+ hours playing the PTS and are actively testing mechanics, new sets, finding and reporting bugs, and working to improve the new system in every possible way?

Excuse my ignorance but the opinions of these different groups are far from equal yet I would include them as 'everybody'. My intent is not to debate or insult your comment, merely to make you see the impossibility of it in an applied setting.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I have a lot of respect for many of our streamers, but everybody should have their opinion weighed equally.

While I disagree, let's assess your statement. Who is 'everybody' and how do we weight their opinion if they haven't commented on an issue?

FYI I not going to participate in debate of semantics and feigned misunderstanding with you. If you can't discern the intent of my statement I am content with you remaining ignorant of it.

I expected an attack for a statement that cannot be defended. Honestly, let's think about it... the PTS changes affect everyone equally, including console players yet their opinion is uninformed both based on less experience playing ESO and the inability to actually test the PTS changes. Many PC players are not participating in the PTS, does their opinion also count equally? Many players participating in the PTS have not tested the mechanics in question, does their opinion matter more or less than the previous two groups? What about players that are just doing the PvE dungeons since IC is mostly PvP focussed? Lastly, what about those players that have spent 25+ hours playing the PTS and are actively testing mechanics, new sets, finding and reporting bugs, and working to improve the new system in every possible way?

Excuse my ignorance but the opinions of these different groups are far from equal yet I would include them as 'everybody'. My attempt is not to debate or insult your comment, merely to make you see the impossibility of it in an applied setting.

It wasn't an attack. It was just a statement that I would not go back and forth over the semantics of "everybody." The intent was to get you to skip that and go ahead with your point instead of asking me for definitions, which you have done.

I do not think that skill, experience, the platform played on, youtube channel subscriber count, ect should make one player's opinion weigh more than another's. The end result of that path is a game designed to appeal to a minority. They should aim to consider as much player feedback as possible.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I have a lot of respect for many of our streamers, but everybody should have their opinion weighed equally.

While I disagree, let's assess your statement. Who is 'everybody' and how do we weight their opinion if they haven't commented on an issue?

FYI I not going to participate in debate of semantics and feigned misunderstanding with you. If you can't discern the intent of my statement I am content with you remaining ignorant of it.

I expected an attack for a statement that cannot be defended. Honestly, let's think about it... the PTS changes affect everyone equally, including console players yet their opinion is uninformed both based on less experience playing ESO and the inability to actually test the PTS changes. Many PC players are not participating in the PTS, does their opinion also count equally? Many players participating in the PTS have not tested the mechanics in question, does their opinion matter more or less than the previous two groups? What about players that are just doing the PvE dungeons since IC is mostly PvP focussed? Lastly, what about those players that have spent 25+ hours playing the PTS and are actively testing mechanics, new sets, finding and reporting bugs, and working to improve the new system in every possible way?

Excuse my ignorance but the opinions of these different groups are far from equal yet I would include them as 'everybody'. My attempt is not to debate or insult your comment, merely to make you see the impossibility of it in an applied setting.

It wasn't an attack. It was just a statement that I would not go back and forth over the semantics of "everybody." The intent was to get you to skip that and go ahead with your point instead of asking me for definitions, which you have done.

I do not think that skill, experience, the platform played on, youtube channel subscriber count, ect should make one player's opinion weigh more than another's. The end result of that path is a game designed to appeal to a minority. They should aim to consider as much player feedback as possible.

I agree that considering feedback is important but most players (or people in general) are simply uinformed or worse, misinformed. The opinions of the informed are worth far more than the opinions of the masses. If, however, a post provides detailed information and a logical and founded analysis/suggestion, I would consider it regardless of the experience/background of the poster in question. All of the things you mentioned are not important if the comment is informative and accurate but most comments posted in this forum are QQ'ing about something, not trying to balance the game for everyone. If ZoS weighted every comment equally, ESO would be far worse because of it.

I guess we disagree. I can't see a better game coming out of valuing what a small percent of a percent of the player base thinks over the rest.

Ezareth wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I have a lot of respect for many of our streamers, but everybody should have their opinion weighed equally.

While I disagree, let's assess your statement. Who is 'everybody' and how do we weight their opinion if they haven't commented on an issue?

FYI I not going to participate in debate of semantics and feigned misunderstanding with you. If you can't discern the intent of my statement I am content with you remaining ignorant of it.

I expected an attack for a statement that cannot be defended. Honestly, let's think about it... the PTS changes affect everyone equally, including console players yet their opinion is uninformed both based on less experience playing ESO and the inability to actually test the PTS changes. Many PC players are not participating in the PTS, does their opinion also count equally? Many players participating in the PTS have not tested the mechanics in question, does their opinion matter more or less than the previous two groups? What about players that are just doing the PvE dungeons since IC is mostly PvP focussed? Lastly, what about those players that have spent 25+ hours playing the PTS and are actively testing mechanics, new sets, finding and reporting bugs, and working to improve the new system in every possible way?

Excuse my ignorance but the opinions of these different groups are far from equal yet I would include them as 'everybody'. My attempt is not to debate or insult your comment, merely to make you see the impossibility of it in an applied setting.

It wasn't an attack. It was just a statement that I would not go back and forth over the semantics of "everybody." The intent was to get you to skip that and go ahead with your point instead of asking me for definitions, which you have done.

I do not think that skill, experience, the platform played on, youtube channel subscriber count, ect should make one player's opinion weigh more than another's. The end result of that path is a game designed to appeal to a minority. They should aim to consider as much player feedback as possible.

I agree that considering feedback is important but most players (or people in general) are simply uinformed or worse, misinformed. The opinions of the informed are worth far more than the opinions of the masses. If, however, a post provides detailed information and a logical and founded analysis/suggestion, I would consider it regardless of the experience/background of the poster in question. All of the things you mentioned are not important if the comment is informative and accurate but most comments posted in this forum are QQ'ing about something, not trying to balance the game for everyone. If ZoS weighted every comment equally, ESO would be far worse because of it.

I guess we disagree. I can't see a better game coming out of valuing what a small percent of a percent of the player base thinks over the rest.

Because Mob Rule has worked so well in so many instances.

Sometimes it takes the ideas of the few, well-educated elite to create something spectacular. (i.e. the US). If you give a voice to every Joe out there you'll have a mess that no one wants.

Best post I've ever seen on these forums. 'Merica!

If ZOS keeps going the way they are, the game will lose more people then it can retain in the long run. They have jacked up more in the last 6 months then they have fixed in a year.

Ezareth wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I have a lot of respect for many of our streamers, but everybody should have their opinion weighed equally.

While I disagree, let's assess your statement. Who is 'everybody' and how do we weight their opinion if they haven't commented on an issue?

FYI I not going to participate in debate of semantics and feigned misunderstanding with you. If you can't discern the intent of my statement I am content with you remaining ignorant of it.

I expected an attack for a statement that cannot be defended. Honestly, let's think about it... the PTS changes affect everyone equally, including console players yet their opinion is uninformed both based on less experience playing ESO and the inability to actually test the PTS changes. Many PC players are not participating in the PTS, does their opinion also count equally? Many players participating in the PTS have not tested the mechanics in question, does their opinion matter more or less than the previous two groups? What about players that are just doing the PvE dungeons since IC is mostly PvP focussed? Lastly, what about those players that have spent 25+ hours playing the PTS and are actively testing mechanics, new sets, finding and reporting bugs, and working to improve the new system in every possible way?

Excuse my ignorance but the opinions of these different groups are far from equal yet I would include them as 'everybody'. My attempt is not to debate or insult your comment, merely to make you see the impossibility of it in an applied setting.

It wasn't an attack. It was just a statement that I would not go back and forth over the semantics of "everybody." The intent was to get you to skip that and go ahead with your point instead of asking me for definitions, which you have done.

I do not think that skill, experience, the platform played on, youtube channel subscriber count, ect should make one player's opinion weigh more than another's. The end result of that path is a game designed to appeal to a minority. They should aim to consider as much player feedback as possible.

I agree that considering feedback is important but most players (or people in general) are simply uinformed or worse, misinformed. The opinions of the informed are worth far more than the opinions of the masses. If, however, a post provides detailed information and a logical and founded analysis/suggestion, I would consider it regardless of the experience/background of the poster in question. All of the things you mentioned are not important if the comment is informative and accurate but most comments posted in this forum are QQ'ing about something, not trying to balance the game for everyone. If ZoS weighted every comment equally, ESO would be far worse because of it.

I guess we disagree. I can't see a better game coming out of valuing what a small percent of a percent of the player base thinks over the rest.

Because Mob Rule has worked so well in so many instances.

Sometimes it takes the ideas of the few, well-educated elite to create something spectacular. (i.e. the US). If you give a voice to every Joe out there you'll have a mess that no one wants.

Well then, I guess we thoroughly understand that we disagree with each other and that there is no possibility for a middle ground, so there is no need to drag this on. I guess we will have to wait until the next PTS patch to see whether ZOS takes the few elite approach or the consider all feedback equally approach.