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Vet Ranks and Champion Points - What's your opinion?
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Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not sure why everyone wants veteran ranks to go away. The majority of complaints I hear about them is Cadwell's Silver/Gold and the XP grind. Neither of which is a problem with the veteran ranks themselves. ZOS just needs to add more content for VR 1-10, and make changes to the amount of XP needed and/or given (which they are in the next update). Maybe change it from veteran ranks to just levels, but it will be exactly the same.
I think the concept of Veteran Ranks should probably go and be replaced with levels; no change in the XP from 1-VR16, and no change in the gear, but just a removal of the actual post 50 system. I can't tell you how many disappointed lowbies I've run across who found out that level 50, or "Max level" as they try to call it, is nowhere near the end of their leveling journey. It's not the fact that leveling persists past 50, but just that this is so terribly unclear by the way the system is laid out.
How can anyone think it stops at 50 when you see vets running around everywhere?
Again- it's clear as mud. Veteran ranks sound like something you would attain after reaching max level; more of a "post max" system for "veteran" players to continue progressing in some way.
In actuality, it's really just levels 51-150 (if you scale it compared to 1-50). Having 1-50 and Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 instead of having 1-150 (or whatever they scale it down to) is as inefficient as calling the number 6 "half a dozen".
Just say 6.
I did the math and keeping the XP requirement increase percentage consistent we see that VR 14, as it is now, should be about level 80. Check out my thread here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/174148/level-50-80-vr-1-16-replacement-a-new-ish-concept/p1
Oh, and I call 6 "double of a quarter dozen".
Edited by Gidorick on August 3, 2015 8:05PMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!1 -
Denssor✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Not sure why everyone wants veteran ranks to go away. The majority of complaints I hear about them is Cadwell's Silver/Gold and the XP grind. Neither of which is a problem with the veteran ranks themselves. ZOS just needs to add more content for VR 1-10, and make changes to the amount of XP needed and/or given (which they are in the next update). Maybe change it from veteran ranks to just levels, but it will be exactly the same.
Champion points on the other hand are stupid. There is no way to catch up to those with tons of CP, half of the perks are broken, and they have very little as far as diminishing returns are concerned. I rather them just scrap this junk completely or add severe diminishing returns so the difference between 300 CP and 1000 CP is less than 1% difference in power. Scraping it would be easier and faster, and this way they can start working on more content sooner.
The silver and gold quests aren't actually an issue at all IF VR levels were removed.
Then those areas become optional content to play or skip depending upon someone's desires. Veteran Levels 1 - 10 are the issue.
If the game literally was levels 1 - 54 it would be a lot better overall but adding more levels isn't a fix.
VR 1 - 10 is an concern or issue for me, as well as the VR 11 - 14 which is in some cases Craglorn only but Craglorn is fun to me and decent PvE group content and a change from the 1 - VR10 way of things.
Changing he exp gain creates another issue as ppl out level content.
Just remove the dang VR levels and let ppl play post 50 with CP's and enjoy the rest as it fits.
Lower Craglorn to level VR2 -VR4 or what would be character levels 52 - 55 or so.
Like I said before, it seems that it is a content issue more than anything. Adding content for VR 1-10 would make Cadwell's Silver/Gold optional/skipable as well. Removing 10 levels from the game is extremely hard to balance with gear, skill points, attribute points, and what do you do about all that extra XP people grinded out? It is much easier to just add content for those given levels.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Not sure why everyone wants veteran ranks to go away. The majority of complaints I hear about them is Cadwell's Silver/Gold and the XP grind. Neither of which is a problem with the veteran ranks themselves. ZOS just needs to add more content for VR 1-10, and make changes to the amount of XP needed and/or given (which they are in the next update). Maybe change it from veteran ranks to just levels, but it will be exactly the same.
Champion points on the other hand are stupid. There is no way to catch up to those with tons of CP, half of the perks are broken, and they have very little as far as diminishing returns are concerned. I rather them just scrap this junk completely or add severe diminishing returns so the difference between 300 CP and 1000 CP is less than 1% difference in power. Scraping it would be easier and faster, and this way they can start working on more content sooner.
The silver and gold quests aren't actually an issue at all IF VR levels were removed.
Then those areas become optional content to play or skip depending upon someone's desires. Veteran Levels 1 - 10 are the issue.
If the game literally was levels 1 - 54 it would be a lot better overall but adding more levels isn't a fix.
VR 1 - 10 is an concern or issue for me, as well as the VR 11 - 14 which is in some cases Craglorn only but Craglorn is fun to me and decent PvE group content and a change from the 1 - VR10 way of things.
Changing he exp gain creates another issue as ppl out level content.
Just remove the dang VR levels and let ppl play post 50 with CP's and enjoy the rest as it fits.
Lower Craglorn to level VR2 -VR4 or what would be character levels 52 - 55 or so.
Like I said before, it seems that it is a content issue more than anything. Adding content for VR 1-10 would make Cadwell's Silver/Gold optional/skipable as well. Removing 10 levels from the game is extremely hard to balance with gear, skill points, attribute points, and what do you do about all that extra XP people grinded out? It is much easier to just add content for those given levels.
I would have to disagree as some would say there is content already.
Its not that the content is bad or boring or lacking, but that there is no point in VR 1- VR10 at all.
Understand I'm coming from waaay back in closed BETA before VR levels.
-When picking a faction was permanent for all characters, and where ppl strongly suggested options to play other factions story (no idea why it became mandatory vs. optional PvE content).
-prior to anything above what I believe was VR6 or 8 and later increased which at first seemed to be a PvP leveling system which made a lot of sense.
Edited by NewBlacksmurf on August 3, 2015 8:20PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Tolmos✭✭✭✭Not sure why everyone wants veteran ranks to go away. The majority of complaints I hear about them is Cadwell's Silver/Gold and the XP grind. Neither of which is a problem with the veteran ranks themselves. ZOS just needs to add more content for VR 1-10, and make changes to the amount of XP needed and/or given (which they are in the next update). Maybe change it from veteran ranks to just levels, but it will be exactly the same.
I think the concept of Veteran Ranks should probably go and be replaced with levels; no change in the XP from 1-VR16, and no change in the gear, but just a removal of the actual post 50 system. I can't tell you how many disappointed lowbies I've run across who found out that level 50, or "Max level" as they try to call it, is nowhere near the end of their leveling journey. It's not the fact that leveling persists past 50, but just that this is so terribly unclear by the way the system is laid out.
How can anyone think it stops at 50 when you see vets running around everywhere?
Again- it's clear as mud. Veteran ranks sound like something you would attain after reaching max level; more of a "post max" system for "veteran" players to continue progressing in some way.
In actuality, it's really just levels 51-150 (if you scale it compared to 1-50). Having 1-50 and Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 instead of having 1-150 (or whatever they scale it down to) is as inefficient as calling the number 6 "half a dozen".
Just say 6.
I did the math and keeping the XP requirement increase percentage consistent we see that VR 14, as it is now, should be about level 80. Check out my thread here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/174148/level-50-80-vr-1-16-replacement-a-new-ish-concept/p1
Oh, and I call 6 "double of a quarter dozen".
Yea, see: "1-80" is so much cleaner than "1-50 then Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14" lol1 -
Denssor✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Not sure why everyone wants veteran ranks to go away. The majority of complaints I hear about them is Cadwell's Silver/Gold and the XP grind. Neither of which is a problem with the veteran ranks themselves. ZOS just needs to add more content for VR 1-10, and make changes to the amount of XP needed and/or given (which they are in the next update). Maybe change it from veteran ranks to just levels, but it will be exactly the same.
Champion points on the other hand are stupid. There is no way to catch up to those with tons of CP, half of the perks are broken, and they have very little as far as diminishing returns are concerned. I rather them just scrap this junk completely or add severe diminishing returns so the difference between 300 CP and 1000 CP is less than 1% difference in power. Scraping it would be easier and faster, and this way they can start working on more content sooner.
The silver and gold quests aren't actually an issue at all IF VR levels were removed.
Then those areas become optional content to play or skip depending upon someone's desires. Veteran Levels 1 - 10 are the issue.
If the game literally was levels 1 - 54 it would be a lot better overall but adding more levels isn't a fix.
VR 1 - 10 is an concern or issue for me, as well as the VR 11 - 14 which is in some cases Craglorn only but Craglorn is fun to me and decent PvE group content and a change from the 1 - VR10 way of things.
Changing he exp gain creates another issue as ppl out level content.
Just remove the dang VR levels and let ppl play post 50 with CP's and enjoy the rest as it fits.
Lower Craglorn to level VR2 -VR4 or what would be character levels 52 - 55 or so.
Like I said before, it seems that it is a content issue more than anything. Adding content for VR 1-10 would make Cadwell's Silver/Gold optional/skipable as well. Removing 10 levels from the game is extremely hard to balance with gear, skill points, attribute points, and what do you do about all that extra XP people grinded out? It is much easier to just add content for those given levels.
I would have to disagree as some would say there is content already.
Its not that the content is bad or boring or lacking, but that there is no point in VR 1- VR10 at all.
Understand I'm coming from waaay back in closed BETA before VR levels.
-When picking a faction was permanent for all characters, and where ppl strongly suggested options to play other factions story (no idea why it became mandatory vs. optional PvE content).
-prior to anything above what I believe was VR6 or 8 and later increased which at first seemed to be a PvP leveling system which made a lot of sense.
I never said there wasn't content already, I said to add content. If you believe VR 1-10 is pointless, why not add content to make it have meaning? I just feel that adding more content for those VR levels would be a better idea, as it would be easier to handle than removing 10 levels from the game. This is just my opinion though.1 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Not sure why everyone wants veteran ranks to go away. The majority of complaints I hear about them is Cadwell's Silver/Gold and the XP grind. Neither of which is a problem with the veteran ranks themselves. ZOS just needs to add more content for VR 1-10, and make changes to the amount of XP needed and/or given (which they are in the next update). Maybe change it from veteran ranks to just levels, but it will be exactly the same.
Champion points on the other hand are stupid. There is no way to catch up to those with tons of CP, half of the perks are broken, and they have very little as far as diminishing returns are concerned. I rather them just scrap this junk completely or add severe diminishing returns so the difference between 300 CP and 1000 CP is less than 1% difference in power. Scraping it would be easier and faster, and this way they can start working on more content sooner.
The silver and gold quests aren't actually an issue at all IF VR levels were removed.
Then those areas become optional content to play or skip depending upon someone's desires. Veteran Levels 1 - 10 are the issue.
If the game literally was levels 1 - 54 it would be a lot better overall but adding more levels isn't a fix.
VR 1 - 10 is an concern or issue for me, as well as the VR 11 - 14 which is in some cases Craglorn only but Craglorn is fun to me and decent PvE group content and a change from the 1 - VR10 way of things.
Changing he exp gain creates another issue as ppl out level content.
Just remove the dang VR levels and let ppl play post 50 with CP's and enjoy the rest as it fits.
Lower Craglorn to level VR2 -VR4 or what would be character levels 52 - 55 or so.
Like I said before, it seems that it is a content issue more than anything. Adding content for VR 1-10 would make Cadwell's Silver/Gold optional/skipable as well. Removing 10 levels from the game is extremely hard to balance with gear, skill points, attribute points, and what do you do about all that extra XP people grinded out? It is much easier to just add content for those given levels.
I would have to disagree as some would say there is content already.
Its not that the content is bad or boring or lacking, but that there is no point in VR 1- VR10 at all.
Understand I'm coming from waaay back in closed BETA before VR levels.
-When picking a faction was permanent for all characters, and where ppl strongly suggested options to play other factions story (no idea why it became mandatory vs. optional PvE content).
-prior to anything above what I believe was VR6 or 8 and later increased which at first seemed to be a PvP leveling system which made a lot of sense.
I never said there wasn't content already, I said to add content. If you believe VR 1-10 is pointless, why not add content to make it have meaning? I just feel that adding more content for those VR levels would be a better idea, as it would be easier to handle than removing 10 levels from the game. This is just my opinion though.
We agree on (Why not add content) but from what I've observed from ESO Live and QuakeCon, etc Zenmiax's PvE content is supposed to scale to a players level so it doesn't seem that they have any interest in creating level specific content int he future.
In order to replace the VR1- VR10 zones, the content would need to wipe the skill points quests, shards, etc from all silver and gold content. This would be a huge and troubling overhaul or change and replace in new content as people pending completion would be more confused and or frustrated.
The simple change is to remove all VR levels and allow players to access content at 50. I'm not saying the NPCs should be dumbed down but just lower their hit points, damage taken at level 50 and damage produced.Edited by NewBlacksmurf on August 3, 2015 8:46PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
nimander99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like the system as is. And I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that ZoS can't figure out how to remove ranks.
Edit: I'm not against re naming vet ranks 1-16 lvls 51-85 or w/e it would come out to mathematically.Edited by nimander99 on August 3, 2015 8:51PMI AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
"Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
"moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
"MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
"MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
"MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
"MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
"MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
"MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
"MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
"MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???
Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP4501 -
Tolmos✭✭✭✭nimander99 wrote: »I like the system as is. And I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that ZoS can't figure out how to remove ranks.
Edit: I'm not against re naming vet ranks 1-16 lvls 51-85 or w/e it would come out to mathematically.
Honestly, I can't imagine they would remove the XP/gear post 50. There's already tons of content, skill points, gear, etc that is all tied to post 50 progression... what would they even do with all that? Logically, it just always seemed like the only option for them to remove the system was simply to rename it/replace it with actual levels; the only difference players see is their level goes up above 50, instead of resetting to 1 with a V in front of it.
I would be VERY surprised if they were like "BAM! Level 50 is the max now!" lol. That would be a TON of work on their part, and I don't see how they as a company would benefit much from that. >_>0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nimander99 wrote: »I like the system as is. And I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that ZoS can't figure out how to remove ranks.
Edit: I'm not against re naming vet ranks 1-16 lvls 51-85 or w/e it would come out to mathematically.
Honestly, I can't imagine they would remove the XP/gear post 50. There's already tons of content, skill points, gear, etc that is all tied to post 50 progression... what would they even do with all that? Logically, it just always seemed like the only option for them to remove the system was simply to rename it/replace it with actual levels; the only difference players see is their level goes up above 50, instead of resetting to 1 with a V in front of it.
I would be VERY surprised if they were like "BAM! Level 50 is the max now!" lol. That would be a TON of work on their part, and I don't see how they as a company would benefit much from that. >_>
Very sound comment....but would it be bad considering level 50 with CP's is the exact same as VR10 or VR14 but without extra character skill/stat points which don't have to leave.
We could still gain 14 stat boosts per character when we gain 1 CP....right?
Edit: the skill/stat boost would come per character rather than per CP per account just like VR works now but removing the VR levels and VR level content limits. No changes to the CP system tho, just doing this so that the conversion is simple.Edited by NewBlacksmurf on August 3, 2015 9:00PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Tolmos✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »nimander99 wrote: »I like the system as is. And I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that ZoS can't figure out how to remove ranks.
Edit: I'm not against re naming vet ranks 1-16 lvls 51-85 or w/e it would come out to mathematically.
Honestly, I can't imagine they would remove the XP/gear post 50. There's already tons of content, skill points, gear, etc that is all tied to post 50 progression... what would they even do with all that? Logically, it just always seemed like the only option for them to remove the system was simply to rename it/replace it with actual levels; the only difference players see is their level goes up above 50, instead of resetting to 1 with a V in front of it.
I would be VERY surprised if they were like "BAM! Level 50 is the max now!" lol. That would be a TON of work on their part, and I don't see how they as a company would benefit much from that. >_>
Very sound comment....but would it be bad considering level 50 with CP's is the exact same as VR10 or VR14 but without extra character skill/stat points which don't have to leave.
We could still gain 14 stat boosts per character when we gain 1 CP....right?
We could, but ZOS has a bit of a horse in the race for us to keep leveling up. Between XP pots, already having content scaling post 50 and enough content to get you to (according to someone else's calculations) level 80, and the possibility that CP is going to get capped/possibly have no CP campaigns in PvP, it seems like a lot of their interests align with at least keeping total XP from 1 to max as it is now, regardless of what you call that max.
Honestly, I'd be cool either way. If they leave it as it is but call it something else, then nothing changes except the naming scheme becomes more clear. If they lower the XP needed to max, then I can level up alts more quickly (which I love, cause I'm an altaholic). So no matter what path they take, I at worst lose nothing, and at best gain something. But I can't really see the benefit to ZOS themselves in reducing the total XP for us to hit cap.Edited by Tolmos on August 3, 2015 9:02PM1 -
J2JMC✭✭✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »Everything is good.
People who actually want to put their time into game have some reward for it.
The only problem with CP and VR are lazy people who want to get everything for free, so each time they see someone with higher lvl or more CP, instead of investing their own time into game and working for it, they will just whine that they want CP and VR removed because reasons.
I want cp removed because I don't want stupid blanket nerfs like 0 percent stam regen during blocking happening...
Knee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert1 -
Mighty_oakk✭✭✭✭✭It seems they are basically removing cp's anyways with the seasonal cap and catch up mechanic which Lambert described as get cps waaay faster, or something to that effect.
I only have 90cps or so but I'd be pissed if I had abunch
0 -
wrathofrraath✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »Everything is good.
People who actually want to put their time into game have some reward for it.
The only problem with CP and VR are lazy people who want to get everything for free, so each time they see someone with higher lvl or more CP, instead of investing their own time into game and working for it, they will just whine that they want CP and VR removed because reasons.
Tired of other people calling others lazy and or whining. Some people like myself have been subbed with the game since before it was even released, with time played well over 100 and are interested in the actual game its exploration, pvp, crafting, economy, theory crafting, getting #1 times on trials and everything else the game has to offer. I am sorry you choose to feel that these people who didnt grind mobs every minute of their gameplay are lazy but that is not the case my friend. The "reward" has been granted unto the most lazy style of gameplay that literally take no effort beside how much time you can afford to not work sleep or go out. Maybe if our xp was actually tracked with a just CP reward I would feel different but there are some people who had RL hit pretty hard amongst the release of the champ system who were punished by not grinding, exploiting npcs, or glitched with perma enlightenment upon its release. The problem is that these very skilled players are mathematically unable to catch up to those who grinded their gameplay away. MMO yes come with their share of grinding but ESO is advertised as a hybrid to cater to both MMO fans and true fans of the Elder Scrolls series. Enlightenment was half assed on release and was supposed generate while in towns crafting, offline, or playing a non vet alt. Now people don't do any of those three things because of the CP race. The saddist part is that many of some of the best players I knew since launch have left the game due to this ever growing power gap. I stuck with it despite my one month absence from the game and I've gained about 100 CP in under a month playing this game of catch up while working, sleeping, and traveling to perform with a band and that makes me lazy because I'm only at 350 ? Sorry man but the only ones whining are the ones who are afraid that the playing feild will be leveled to the point where skill mattered like it did in 1.5 and the only lazy ones are the grinders. This isnt whining this is raging, feel the wrath of rraath.Vokul Lovaas - V16 Magicka Dragonknight
Vokul Vol - V16 Magicka Nightblade
Order of Mundus - NA DC
DK heals OP1 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Not sure why everyone wants veteran ranks to go away. The majority of complaints I hear about them is Cadwell's Silver/Gold and the XP grind. Neither of which is a problem with the veteran ranks themselves. ZOS just needs to add more content for VR 1-10, and make changes to the amount of XP needed and/or given (which they are in the next update). Maybe change it from veteran ranks to just levels, but it will be exactly the same.
Champion points on the other hand are stupid. There is no way to catch up to those with tons of CP, half of the perks are broken, and they have very little as far as diminishing returns are concerned. I rather them just scrap this junk completely or add severe diminishing returns so the difference between 300 CP and 1000 CP is less than 1% difference in power. Scraping it would be easier and faster, and this way they can start working on more content sooner.
The silver and gold quests aren't actually an issue at all IF VR levels were removed.
Then those areas become optional content to play or skip depending upon someone's desires. Veteran Levels 1 - 10 are the issue.
If the game literally was levels 1 - 54 it would be a lot better overall but adding more levels isn't a fix.
VR 1 - 10 is an concern or issue for me, as well as the VR 11 - 14 which is in some cases Craglorn only but Craglorn is fun to me and decent PvE group content and a change from the 1 - VR10 way of things.
Changing he exp gain creates another issue as ppl out level content.
Just remove the dang VR levels and let ppl play post 50 with CP's and enjoy the rest as it fits.
Lower Craglorn to level VR2 -VR4 or what would be character levels 52 - 55 or so.
Like I said before, it seems that it is a content issue more than anything. Adding content for VR 1-10 would make Cadwell's Silver/Gold optional/skipable as well. Removing 10 levels from the game is extremely hard to balance with gear, skill points, attribute points, and what do you do about all that extra XP people grinded out? It is much easier to just add content for those given levels.
I would have to disagree as some would say there is content already.
Its not that the content is bad or boring or lacking, but that there is no point in VR 1- VR10 at all.
Understand I'm coming from waaay back in closed BETA before VR levels.
-When picking a faction was permanent for all characters, and where ppl strongly suggested options to play other factions story (no idea why it became mandatory vs. optional PvE content).
-prior to anything above what I believe was VR6 or 8 and later increased which at first seemed to be a PvP leveling system which made a lot of sense.
I never said there wasn't content already, I said to add content. If you believe VR 1-10 is pointless, why not add content to make it have meaning? I just feel that adding more content for those VR levels would be a better idea, as it would be easier to handle than removing 10 levels from the game. This is just my opinion though.
We agree on (Why not add content) but from what I've observed from ESO Live and QuakeCon, etc Zenmiax's PvE content is supposed to scale to a players level so it doesn't seem that they have any interest in creating level specific content int he future.
In order to replace the VR1- VR10 zones, the content would need to wipe the skill points quests, shards, etc from all silver and gold content. This would be a huge and troubling overhaul or change and replace in new content as people pending completion would be more confused and or frustrated.
The simple change is to remove all VR levels and allow players to access content at 50. I'm not saying the NPCs should be dumbed down but just lower their hit points, damage taken at level 50 and damage produced.
LOL. If you remove the levels, hitpoints and outgoing dmg of mobs how else would you describe it other than "dumbing it down"? It's just a stupid idea to remove existing progression in the game so that some people can skip past content they don't like.
What you are proposing is basically to homogenize 16 levels of content into an even more boring slog because the difficulty on all that content will be the same with little sense of progression outside of the CS. If people think it's boring now just wait until people try doing it with no sense of advancement and mob difficulty that stays the same through two entire alliances. That would be awful. Not to mention how it would totally gut and ruin the crafting system and skills associated with them.
There are better ways to allow people to skip content or experience the "end game" content. They already allow battle leveling for those who want to PvP before hitting max level so if PvP is your thing you don't *have* to go through silver/gold (and they could improve battle leveling to be more effective). The only other reason would be trials and they could scale trials down to V1 or V5 or something so people who want that content could experience it sooner without having to reach max level.
They could also do some kind of battle leveling up for trials or something so lower level players could play with their higher level friends. That would be far easier than trying to remove so much existing progression that people have already earned and so much of the game is built on.
The reason they haven't removed VR and have in fact added more is because it's not possible to put the toothpaste back in the tube. They won't remove VR so stop dreaming. The only thing you will get is a transfer from VR levels to regular levels or something similar. There is no way to flatten 16 levels of existing progression without completely ruining the game.0 -
OzJohnD✭✭✭✭There is so much talk/debate about Veteran Ranks and Champion Points.
sure is ..Everyone knows the phenomenon of trying to hold your breath underwater - how at first it's alright and you can handle it, and then as it gets closer and closer to the time when you must breathe, how urgent the need becomes, the lust and the hunger to breathe. And then the panic sets in when you begin to think that you won't be able to breathe - and finally, when you take in air and the anxiety subsides...that's what it's like to be a vampire and need blood.
Francis Ford Coppola - BS Dracula: The Film and the Legend0 -
OzJohnD✭✭✭✭What my immediate concern is, having hit V14 recently as a casual player, mostly solo, what is there left to do with my V14 toon except grind zombies for crawlers and worms for fishing ... (and CPs being "forced" on me and my alts)
At least I have worked out (for me at least) the perfect single ability bar for AoE grinding.
If V14 becomes V16 with the Imperial City PvP DLC I am hoping there is a legitimate non-grind means of getting to V16Everyone knows the phenomenon of trying to hold your breath underwater - how at first it's alright and you can handle it, and then as it gets closer and closer to the time when you must breathe, how urgent the need becomes, the lust and the hunger to breathe. And then the panic sets in when you begin to think that you won't be able to breathe - and finally, when you take in air and the anxiety subsides...that's what it's like to be a vampire and need blood.
Francis Ford Coppola - BS Dracula: The Film and the Legend1 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My opinion is that if theyre going to remove Vet Ranks then they need to work on that rather then adding new levels.
As for the CP. A Cap in my opinion is a terrible idea. The better solution would of been a increased CPXP for people with less than a certain amount of CP and larger CPXP demands on anyone above a certain amount.
This would slow down those way above the average while giving others a chance to catch up. Those grinding out the CP for hours would still have something to work towards but wouldnt be able to out pace those at the bottom.
This whole CP issue is a classic have and have not issue. The have nots think theyre entitled to the CP points that they dont have the time to gain and rather have ZOS tackle the issue in a meaningful manner. They praise ZOS for taking the bandaid lazy way out of the issue because while it doesnt benefit them it harms the other side that they have come to envy and hate. Just look at anyone talking about people who spend 8 hours a day in the game....To the Have Nots those with all the CP are 'No-Lifers'. They dont know these people in any way shape or form. They dont know the persons lifestyle or situation but theyve already shoved them into this neat little box that they can point at and villianize.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Not sure why everyone wants veteran ranks to go away. The majority of complaints I hear about them is Cadwell's Silver/Gold and the XP grind. Neither of which is a problem with the veteran ranks themselves. ZOS just needs to add more content for VR 1-10, and make changes to the amount of XP needed and/or given (which they are in the next update). Maybe change it from veteran ranks to just levels, but it will be exactly the same.
Champion points on the other hand are stupid. There is no way to catch up to those with tons of CP, half of the perks are broken, and they have very little as far as diminishing returns are concerned. I rather them just scrap this junk completely or add severe diminishing returns so the difference between 300 CP and 1000 CP is less than 1% difference in power. Scraping it would be easier and faster, and this way they can start working on more content sooner.
The silver and gold quests aren't actually an issue at all IF VR levels were removed.
Then those areas become optional content to play or skip depending upon someone's desires. Veteran Levels 1 - 10 are the issue.
If the game literally was levels 1 - 54 it would be a lot better overall but adding more levels isn't a fix.
VR 1 - 10 is an concern or issue for me, as well as the VR 11 - 14 which is in some cases Craglorn only but Craglorn is fun to me and decent PvE group content and a change from the 1 - VR10 way of things.
Changing he exp gain creates another issue as ppl out level content.
Just remove the dang VR levels and let ppl play post 50 with CP's and enjoy the rest as it fits.
Lower Craglorn to level VR2 -VR4 or what would be character levels 52 - 55 or so.
Like I said before, it seems that it is a content issue more than anything. Adding content for VR 1-10 would make Cadwell's Silver/Gold optional/skipable as well. Removing 10 levels from the game is extremely hard to balance with gear, skill points, attribute points, and what do you do about all that extra XP people grinded out? It is much easier to just add content for those given levels.
I would have to disagree as some would say there is content already.
Its not that the content is bad or boring or lacking, but that there is no point in VR 1- VR10 at all.
Understand I'm coming from waaay back in closed BETA before VR levels.
-When picking a faction was permanent for all characters, and where ppl strongly suggested options to play other factions story (no idea why it became mandatory vs. optional PvE content).
-prior to anything above what I believe was VR6 or 8 and later increased which at first seemed to be a PvP leveling system which made a lot of sense.
I never said there wasn't content already, I said to add content. If you believe VR 1-10 is pointless, why not add content to make it have meaning? I just feel that adding more content for those VR levels would be a better idea, as it would be easier to handle than removing 10 levels from the game. This is just my opinion though.
We agree on (Why not add content) but from what I've observed from ESO Live and QuakeCon, etc Zenmiax's PvE content is supposed to scale to a players level so it doesn't seem that they have any interest in creating level specific content int he future.
In order to replace the VR1- VR10 zones, the content would need to wipe the skill points quests, shards, etc from all silver and gold content. This would be a huge and troubling overhaul or change and replace in new content as people pending completion would be more confused and or frustrated.
The simple change is to remove all VR levels and allow players to access content at 50. I'm not saying the NPCs should be dumbed down but just lower their hit points, damage taken at level 50 and damage produced.
LOL. If you remove the levels, hitpoints and outgoing dmg of mobs how else would you describe it other than "dumbing it down"? It's just a stupid idea to remove existing progression in the game so that some people can skip past content they don't like.
What you are proposing is basically to homogenize 16 levels of content into an even more boring slog because the difficulty on all that content will be the same with little sense of progression outside of the CS. If people think it's boring now just wait until people try doing it with no sense of advancement and mob difficulty that stays the same through two entire alliances. That would be awful. Not to mention how it would totally gut and ruin the crafting system and skills associated with them.
There are better ways to allow people to skip content or experience the "end game" content. They already allow battle leveling for those who want to PvP before hitting max level so if PvP is your thing you don't *have* to go through silver/gold (and they could improve battle leveling to be more effective). The only other reason would be trials and they could scale trials down to V1 or V5 or something so people who want that content could experience it sooner without having to reach max level.
They could also do some kind of battle leveling up for trials or something so lower level players could play with their higher level friends. That would be far easier than trying to remove so much existing progression that people have already earned and so much of the game is built on.
The reason they haven't removed VR and have in fact added more is because it's not possible to put the toothpaste back in the tube. They won't remove VR so stop dreaming. The only thing you will get is a transfer from VR levels to regular levels or something similar. There is no way to flatten 16 levels of existing progression without completely ruining the game.
I hear you but in this game unlike other traditional MMORPG's the game isn't about gear progression by content difficulty.
I'm not suggesting to create ways to skip content but instead make the silver and gold areas only optional.
I get why you're saying skip tho because as is...it'd be skipping content.
I might be wrong but from what we are seeing in incoming DLC, it's all said to be character scaling so I think it makes sense to adjust the character into the CP system.
It's not all or nothing. If the skills and stats move to CP gains by character then the only changes are VR npc level becomes CP or maybe even remains the same.
Make sense?
-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Azurephoenix999✭✭✭✭✭I think they should reduce the XP between each Veteran Rank and Champion Point.
Additionally, if they do remove Veteran Ranks, they should at least have the decency to replace it with something different.
I don't want all the effort I went through to get from VR1 to VR3 to be for nothing (I know, not that much. But still).
If I make it to VR 16 before they remove the ranks, I don't want to suddenly be on par with Level 50s again. It would make all of the XP I've earned since then be absolutely meaningless.
As for Champion Points, I don't like the idea of "infinite progression" for an MMO. Even if I did, the current system sucks. They say they always want us to be able to aspire towards something, but there's no end result to the Champion system other than that almost non-existant, miniscule, insignificant boost we get each time we earn CP.
Instead of having them as an endless thing like they're planning, they should make it so you get rewarded more often and in more significant ways.
Decrease XP between each VR.
Decrease XP between each CP.
Increase bonus for each CP that is redeeemed.
Decrease CP required for each of the bonus perks.Guildmaster of Spectral Liberty - Xbox One - European Megaserver0 -
OzJohnD✭✭✭✭Repeating the same quest lines for 8 different toons to get them to V14 ... no thanks.
If ZO implemented a way to insta-level toons to V10 conditional on already having a V14 leveling the normal way it could alleviate some of the grind angst.
I doubt at this stage it would occur, but for example with many players dropping out of WoW Blizzard introduced a means of bumping a toon up to lvl 90 (for real money) for the final run 90-100 in the latest expansion to encourage players to come back to WoW.Everyone knows the phenomenon of trying to hold your breath underwater - how at first it's alright and you can handle it, and then as it gets closer and closer to the time when you must breathe, how urgent the need becomes, the lust and the hunger to breathe. And then the panic sets in when you begin to think that you won't be able to breathe - and finally, when you take in air and the anxiety subsides...that's what it's like to be a vampire and need blood.
Francis Ford Coppola - BS Dracula: The Film and the Legend0 -
Celas_Dranacea✭✭✭✭✭I don't villanize 8hour/day players, I just think that in a game designed for thousands of players, privileging 1 segment of the population (the ultra hardcore) over everyone else with a very high power differential is not good for the game.
I think those ultra hardcore people are great, I'm glad they exist as many of them are super knowledgeable, great teammates and leaders, etc. it just doesn't make sense to me that in pvp, if you play 8 hours a day you can eventually make it so that any fight with a casual player is extremely unbalanced, outside of skill.
Even take me for example, I play 1-2 hours a day usually and I definitely don't need an advantage in pvp over newer players. I'm fairly skilled and have decent gear - I don't really want to beat those more casual players on the basis that Ive got way more cp - I think that is cheap.
However, I will continue to do what I can to earn and spend cp cause there are people running around with 1-4x what I have, and not using my cp to be fair to new players would severely gimp me.
Too much to think about - just want balance and fun for all denizens of Tamriel.A Bosmer Nightblade Werewolf2 -
Violynne✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm probably of a handful of players who doesn't give a squat about level so I wouldn't care if veteran ranks are removed and capped at 50.
As for CP, it's a wasted system that's only designed to give people some type of "reward" for playing the game, considering veteran ranks don't level as fast.
Because of this, the point system is scaled to a level I call ridiculous. Spending 1 CP point of 0.2% of a buff is just asinine. Either increase it by 1% or just drop it completely.
Just my two gold coins.
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notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭honestly, i'd remove VR levels and cadwells.
make level cap 50
gear tiers to replace VR gear tiers
cadwells completely optional for skyshards and quest/mob loot
removes grind to win
remove combat bonuses from CP, make it a lot more cosmetic
cadwells broke this game, every band aid applied afterwards broke it even further. the AAA rating is for the amount of times the game has been boned in the pooper.
love the combat in this game, but loathe the management of endgame.
CP is not supposed to be cosmetic... That would be a massively stupid change
1-50 = 20-30hrs of work
Cadwells didn't break the game, it required you to put effort into a character.1 -
MaximusDargus wrote: »Everything is good.
People who actually want to put their time into game have some reward for it.
The only problem with CP and VR are lazy people who want to get everything for free, so each time they see someone with higher lvl or more CP, instead of investing their own time into game and working for it, they will just whine that they want CP and VR removed because reasons.
Everything is good huh? I guess that's why the game went F2P......
IF everything is good why did ZOS have to go F2P in order to bring in new players just to have high CP players pummel them in PVP.....I'm a new player who just subbed. How long do you think ZOS can keep players like me playing PVP when you have one player being hit by 20 others and just barely seeing he health bar go down? And, if everything is good why aren't long timers subbing to this game anymore?
Truth of the matter is you guys (the ones who have been here from the beginning) aren't supporting the game financially that's where the heart of the matter is...so ZOS has to keep two players happy
The old one
and the new ones
whether you guys like it or not CHANGES have to be made to retain us new players who jumped in...
if every new player left the game right now what state would ESO be in right now? that's including consoles.
You guys don't think about questions like these. But, the ZOS has to because their a business that runs on revenue.
NOT exploits, potions, and mounts....the mentality of these forums is just mind boggling
people always complain about changes and then when the game is gone they are like "Why did the game shut down?" seriously0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm probably of a handful of players who doesn't give a squat about level so I wouldn't care if veteran ranks are removed and capped at 50.
As for CP, it's a wasted system that's only designed to give people some type of "reward" for playing the game, considering veteran ranks don't level as fast.
Because of this, the point system is scaled to a level I call ridiculous. Spending 1 CP point of 0.2% of a buff is just asinine. Either increase it by 1% or just drop it completely.
Just my two gold coins.
Your comment tho...raising the affects of the CP to 1% makes a lot of sense.-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
I'm probably of a handful of players who doesn't give a squat about level so I wouldn't care if veteran ranks are removed and capped at 50.
As for CP, it's a wasted system that's only designed to give people some type of "reward" for playing the game, considering veteran ranks don't level as fast.
Because of this, the point system is scaled to a level I call ridiculous. Spending 1 CP point of 0.2% of a buff is just asinine. Either increase it by 1% or just drop it completely.
Just my two gold coins.
In the grand scheme of things (ZOS) it's just a way to keep you guys busy...no new content we'll just let you grind 1000000000000000XP points till you reach VR16 and CP max points..
Oh but wait there is imperial city? Oh yah how long is that going to last 2 weeks, 1 month, 2 months...we have a humongous PVP zones and there are so threads "I'm bored of PVP" ...?????
Imperial City with 2 more VR ranks that will KEEP YOU BUSY.
There are better ways to keep players busy but they require more land, more content, more weapons, more armor, more of everything...but $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
It's a way to keep the long time players PLAYING and for the new players it's a
slingshot around the galaxy.
and you long time players gladly accept it by the way these forums are behaving.
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Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭do away with vet ranks, unless we can get a grind spot that doesnt get nerfed. i actually liked it before craglorn got nerfed.0 -
Farorin✭✭✭✭✭Champion points do buff your character, but not to an insane degree, they clearly give you a distinct advantage, but not a game breaking one. I think that CP should be easier to obtain, or that there should be a CP cap in at least some campaigns for PVP, but I like the CP system. I do want the vet ranks to be removed though, as they frustrate me to no end when trying to level alts, and when trying to play PVP, also the extra division between ranks divides players further, as for PVE people are less likely to want you in a group if you are a significantly lower vet level than them.0 -
RSram✭✭✭✭✭I think ZOS should get rid of the VR and CP systems. I don't like the CP system as it is currently implemented, but what I think ZOS should have did was to have the player just earn CP towards his character's racial bonuses. It would make race play a more important role than it does currently. Leave the CP tree only for those attributes that are non-racial specific.
I don't agree with the system of account level CP; it should apply to only one character.
BTW I'm sick of hearing that the CP system isn't fair.I'm not stating it isn't fair, I just stating that I don't like the way it's implemented. It doesn't matter what system ZOS puts in the game, the most dedicated, motivated, experienced and knowledgeable players are always going to to excel further than the causal player; Winners are ordinary people with extraordinary determination.0 -
Itoq✭✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »The only problem with CP and VR are lazy people who want to get everything for free,
So, play more video game is less lazy and play less video game is more lazy. Hmm.0