Stalwart385 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

MrTtheDK wrote: »

After tanking both vet white gold tower and imperial city prison on my dummer dk, I can confirm that it isnt an issue at all for pvers to complete content. I can also say that for the most part, I didnt even require repentance nor shards. 1.6 tanking is joke. This change imo is much needed to re-balance tanking so that it just isnt a dps with a taunt. Yes tanking is harder but the current content in 1.6 is very disappointing if your tank doesnt have to worry about running out of stam. FYI I perma blocked every fight and never ran out so the one hitter quiter manti shots are not something you need to worry about.

I agree, personally. You can use siphoning attacks on a Nightblade on pts equally as easily, and I have tested even with a a bunch of mobs hitting me and pretending I was tanking a trial by keeping a bunch of those, taunted, without a problem in a nice build. I tanked a little bit of vet stuff and solo'd a ton of sewers trash packs with reasonably quick killing speed still even and got the hang of it pretty quickly when practicing. Sorcs now have dark deal as a 1 second cast, and templars have their own benefits such as empowering sweep for a large flat damage percent reduction on all incoming damage with a high uptime, along with their own niceties such as blazing or radiant ward (worse damage but better magicka efficiency for aoe per shield due to increased strength), and Eclipse to shut down casters, and for aoe pulls repentance is killer. I never tanked regularly on live, because quite frankly it was drop dead boring with how simple it felt and was. With the 2.1 changes on pts I'm very much interested now in tanking trials and other content again finally with regularity.

Stalwart385 wrote: »

I call bs. Make sure its on vet next time. Normal mode is a face roll. Adapted and completed is one thing, completed with no stam issues is bs.

The fact that you think vet prison is no problem for all pvers says it all. The first bosses flurry hit for 30k+ with minor maim and 32.5k armor. Two atros and the second boss will drop your stam like it was never there. Good luck getting a run of the mill group grenading the spawn so you have less than three atros. Dont get me wrong, I like that its tough but you are way off base with what you are conveying.

You can not perma block without running out of stam. If you could the whole nerf was for naught. Is the content still doable, sure. Are tank going to have issues, yes they will have to adapt. Along with the healers and dps, because tanks can't do as much as they used to.

That's why you recognize a skill starting its channel with multiple hits like flurry, and dodge roll rather than standing there grinning with your block key held down and calling it tanking. Or sidestep, because Npc flurries, last I checked and this did include even Hiath in round 10 vet DSA, do not follow you if you aren't in front of it. Only the last hit, if you look at the Tooltip for flurry, hits very hard. Either one makes you not take anywhere near as much damage or stamina loss as stamina is a flat cost for each hit absorbed, and flurry has six. That's the kind of thing, among numerous other bits, I was surprised to see so, so very many tanks insist they never did and that they only really tried to permablock, and that was why the PTS change, which was insisted by the overwhelming majority of live tanks, would supposedly make tanking impossibly or nearly so, hard that most couldn't even do it and even many of the best supposedly wouldn't manage it.

I tanked vdsa Hiath a long time ago with a dual staff setup in 5pc light armor with a fairly new group that asked me to tag in. They didn't do 50 to zero, let alone 100 to zero, and so I had to not only tank the adds, but also withstand the flames to boot. The group ultimately didn't have the dps or healing and so I remained the last one alive each time with their best attempt landing at about 10 percent with the adds dead on Hiath. Those were each extremely long attempts in that group, with all of the adds eventually dead, but failed before they could finish.

I don't tank very regularly, and that isn't because I can't do it on live for trials etc but because if you put on a sword and shield right now and then either 5pc heavy or some block cost reduction glyphs instead, and then simply use an armor/spell buff, it is downright too easy to the point of being boring to me even in trials. Strong dps has a much higher skill cap there, and even healing does if you're also doing moderate dps.

I argued it would add a much needed change in difficulty but no one really, apart from a select few insightful posters, picked up on it even though I outlined numerous ways to tank more effectively in particular once this was going to hit the PTS and they should wait on judgement before even logging in there, because if they didn't do anything but tape down block now they would need to learn how to more interactively tank, as simply overpowering the game's tanking mechanics wouldn't work well anymore but the game would benefit.

Zos mentioned on eso live that before pts the feedback was basically 99 percent against it. As of Friday they had already seen a marked and drastic split to about half supporting it at many different player skill levels, and half not liking it. As I kept saying, try it, learn how to do it if you didn't already efficiently tank on live, and you'll probably find with a bit of time you'll come to like it. If not, then maybe some other role .

The flurry can not be sidestepped. If you try and dodge it he will chase you down and hit you before you get block back up. Not to mention the waste of stam. The entire attack quickly drops your health. You can watch it drop in chunks.

I find it insulting that people think end game 1.6 tanks sat there with rmb held down and ate some lunch. If you want a better score you did more as a tank. You helped your healers by avoiding damage so they could dps more or needed less healers. You gathered mobs to increase aoe dps. You did damage your self, along with buff/debuff rotations. That is how you made your group better. Now tanks have to be purely worried about tanking and healers more concerned with their tanks. If that is bad or good thats opinion. But dont tell me its no issue and no one will have peoblems. Im doing extra to get higher leaderboard scores. What about the people having trouble completing vdsa and hard modes just doing their basic roles as is. They are going to have big issues. If you thought tanking was boring you were gimping what you could have done for your group.

MrTtheDK wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

MrTtheDK wrote: »

After tanking both vet white gold tower and imperial city prison on my dummer dk, I can confirm that it isnt an issue at all for pvers to complete content. I can also say that for the most part, I didnt even require repentance nor shards. 1.6 tanking is joke. This change imo is much needed to re-balance tanking so that it just isnt a dps with a taunt. Yes tanking is harder but the current content in 1.6 is very disappointing if your tank doesnt have to worry about running out of stam. FYI I perma blocked every fight and never ran out so the one hitter quiter manti shots are not something you need to worry about.

I agree, personally. You can use siphoning attacks on a Nightblade on pts equally as easily, and I have tested even with a a bunch of mobs hitting me and pretending I was tanking a trial by keeping a bunch of those, taunted, without a problem in a nice build. I tanked a little bit of vet stuff and solo'd a ton of sewers trash packs with reasonably quick killing speed still even and got the hang of it pretty quickly when practicing. Sorcs now have dark deal as a 1 second cast, and templars have their own benefits such as empowering sweep for a large flat damage percent reduction on all incoming damage with a high uptime, along with their own niceties such as blazing or radiant ward (worse damage but better magicka efficiency for aoe per shield due to increased strength), and Eclipse to shut down casters, and for aoe pulls repentance is killer. I never tanked regularly on live, because quite frankly it was drop dead boring with how simple it felt and was. With the 2.1 changes on pts I'm very much interested now in tanking trials and other content again finally with regularity.

Stalwart385 wrote: »

I call bs. Make sure its on vet next time. Normal mode is a face roll. Adapted and completed is one thing, completed with no stam issues is bs.

The fact that you think vet prison is no problem for all pvers says it all. The first bosses flurry hit for 30k+ with minor maim and 32.5k armor. Two atros and the second boss will drop your stam like it was never there. Good luck getting a run of the mill group grenading the spawn so you have less than three atros. Dont get me wrong, I like that its tough but you are way off base with what you are conveying.

You can not perma block without running out of stam. If you could the whole nerf was for naught. Is the content still doable, sure. Are tank going to have issues, yes they will have to adapt. Along with the healers and dps, because tanks can't do as much as they used to.

That's why you recognize a skill starting its channel with multiple hits like flurry, and dodge roll rather than standing there grinning with your block key held down and calling it tanking. Or sidestep, because Npc flurries, last I checked and this did include even Hiath in round 10 vet DSA, do not follow you if you aren't in front of it. Only the last hit, if you look at the Tooltip for flurry, hits very hard. Either one makes you not take anywhere near as much damage or stamina loss as stamina is a flat cost for each hit absorbed, and flurry has six. That's the kind of thing, among numerous other bits, I was surprised to see so, so very many tanks insist they never did and that they only really tried to permablock, and that was why the PTS change, which was insisted by the overwhelming majority of live tanks, would supposedly make tanking impossibly or nearly so, hard that most couldn't even do it and even many of the best supposedly wouldn't manage it.

I tanked vdsa Hiath a long time ago with a dual staff setup in 5pc light armor with a fairly new group that asked me to tag in. They didn't do 50 to zero, let alone 100 to zero, and so I had to not only tank the adds, but also withstand the flames to boot. The group ultimately didn't have the dps or healing and so I remained the last one alive each time with their best attempt landing at about 10 percent with the adds dead on Hiath. Those were each extremely long attempts in that group, with all of the adds eventually dead, but failed before they could finish.

I don't tank very regularly, and that isn't because I can't do it on live for trials etc but because if you put on a sword and shield right now and then either 5pc heavy or some block cost reduction glyphs instead, and then simply use an armor/spell buff, it is downright too easy to the point of being boring to me even in trials. Strong dps has a much higher skill cap there, and even healing does if you're also doing moderate dps.

I argued it would add a much needed change in difficulty but no one really, apart from a select few insightful posters, picked up on it even though I outlined numerous ways to tank more effectively in particular once this was going to hit the PTS and they should wait on judgement before even logging in there, because if they didn't do anything but tape down block now they would need to learn how to more interactively tank, as simply overpowering the game's tanking mechanics wouldn't work well anymore but the game would benefit.

Zos mentioned on eso live that before pts the feedback was basically 99 percent against it. As of Friday they had already seen a marked and drastic split to about half supporting it at many different player skill levels, and half not liking it. As I kept saying, try it, learn how to do it if you didn't already efficiently tank on live, and you'll probably find with a bit of time you'll come to like it. If not, then maybe some other role .

The flurry can not be sidestepped. If you try and dodge it he will chase you down and hit you before you get block back up. Not to mention the waste of stam. The entire attack quickly drops your health. You can watch it drop in chunks.

I find it insulting that people think end game 1.6 tanks sat there with rmb held down and ate some lunch. If you want a better score you did more as a tank. You helped your healers by avoiding damage so they could dps more or needed less healers. You gathered mobs to increase aoe dps. You did damage your self, along with buff/debuff rotations. That is how you made your group better. Now tanks have to be purely worried about tanking and healers more concerned with their tanks. If that is bad or good thats opinion. But dont tell me its no issue and no one will have peoblems. Im doing extra to get higher leaderboard scores. What about the people having trouble completing vdsa and hard modes just doing their basic roles as is. They are going to have big issues. If you thought tanking was boring you were gimping what you could have done for your group.

So you know Ive tanked everything in the game from 1.4 VDSA through this current patch hardmode SO. Tanking isnt challenging the way it is now. Ive completed VDSA 100's of times with very good groups so I understand that a real good tank does a lot more than just stand and hold block but content should not allow you to be a dps with a taunt. In tanking dps gear I was getting 10-15K for each round in VDSA which is low for a lot of DPS tanks. Content and mechanics should be hard enough where a tank has to be a tank. I am not sure on your prior experience or if you had the opportunity to tank VDSA before the 100 nerfs or SO prior to the I can eat cleaves deal of 1.6 but that was not real tanking. This change while it maybe crazy to some will not only balance pvp blocking out but also provide another challenge to pve tanking because while its more difficult its not as crazy as everyone is thinking.