ZOS, your racial balancing is bad and you should feel bad too

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Bwookiee wrote: »

Or clear all racials and put them into 3 categories, a primary stat, a regen, and an "other" and you can pick one from each column.... If any class can tank/heal/dps, we should have the ability to customize racials too.

Just a thought

I agree and have suggested this in the past, as well. Separate the aesthetics (looking/being a cat-man, a walking lizard, a snooty high-elf, etc.

) from the gameplay. My thought was to have a "Racial Legacies" skill line in place of the current Racial one. Then, the idea was to provide three unique points to be spent in that line, with the existing racials correlating at each level spent in them. Spend one point in "Khajit Legacy" and you would get the same bonus as you do now for speccing one point into each of those current racials. Spec two, and you get the same as having had two points in each.

However, you could also choose to split your points, and say, invest two points into the Orc racial bundle, and two into the Khajit one, to mix the bonuses at proportional power levels. The other main idea I've had is to instead just provide one of these unique points, and speccing that point acts as your racial passive choice giving you the same bonuses as rank 3 does now, for all of their respective passives (one point in "Dunmer Heritage" would mean the same gains as 3 points in each of the existing passives, then).

Then, they could add race appearance changes to the crown store as I've seen suggested in some threads instead as full-out race changes, without severely impacting gameplay, along with letting everyone choose how they want to look. Personally, I always had wanted to be an Argonian lizard-man when I first had seen a screenshot of ESO years ago. Their racials, however, are terrible for how I want to play the game, and so I do not look like a lizard-man

. I'd happily pay a few bucks to be one, but not suffer in my character's performance as a result.

@ZOS_GinaBruno / @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Strider_Roshin · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Bwookiee wrote: »

Or clear all racials and put them into 3 categories, a primary stat, a regen, and an "other" and you can pick one from each column.... If any class can tank/heal/dps, we should have the ability to customize racials too.

Just a thought

I agree and have suggested this in the past, as well. Separate the aesthetics (looking/being a cat-man, a walking lizard, a snooty high-elf, etc. ) from the gameplay. My thought was to have a "Racial Legacies" skill line in place of the current Racial one. Then, the idea was to provide three unique points to be spent in that line, with the existing racials correlating at each level spent in them. Spend one point in "Khajit Legacy" and you would get the same bonus as you do now for speccing one point into each of those current racials. Spec two, and you get the same as having had two points in each.

However, you could also choose to split your points, and say, invest two points into the Orc racial bundle, and two into the Khajit one, to mix the bonuses at proportional power levels. The other main idea I've had is to instead just provide one of these unique points, and speccing that point acts as your racial passive choice giving you the same bonuses as rank 3 does now, for all of their respective passives (one point in "Dunmer Heritage" would mean the same gains as 3 points in each of the existing passives, then).

Then, they could add race appearance changes to the crown store as I've seen suggested in some threads instead as full-out race changes, without severely impacting gameplay, along with letting everyone choose how they want to look. Personally, I always had wanted to be an Argonian lizard-man when I first had seen a screenshot of ESO years ago. Their racials, however, are terrible for how I want to play the game, and so I do not look like a lizard-man . I'd happily pay a few bucks to be one, but not suffer in my character's performance as a result.

@ZOS_GinaBruno / @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I think this is an awesome and fun idea. It would be great if they were to implement something like this in the future =]

tinythinker · July 2015

If you missed it on the current ESO special with Wrobel, Wheeler, and Lambert they said Max Health bonus for Argonians going up to 6% and healing received to 9%.

Oh, and Bosmer/Altmer changes are being reverted.

ThatNeonZebraAgain · July 2015

Bosmer and Altmer changes being reverted?! That's... unexpected and welcomed.

Strider_Roshin · July 2015

tinythinker wrote: »

If you missed it on the current ESO special with Wrobel, Wheeler, and Lambert they said Max Health bonus for Argonians going up to 6% and healing received to 9%.

Oh, and Bosmer/Altmer changes are being reverted.

A step in the right direction? How unexpected. Now if they can just give orcs and Nords robust constitution and put robust in its rightful grave we'd be all set.

Rosveen · August 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Bwookiee wrote: »

Or clear all racials and put them into 3 categories, a primary stat, a regen, and an "other" and you can pick one from each column.... If any class can tank/heal/dps, we should have the ability to customize racials too.

Just a thought

I agree and have suggested this in the past, as well. Separate the aesthetics (looking/being a cat-man, a walking lizard, a snooty high-elf, etc. ) from the gameplay. My thought was to have a "Racial Legacies" skill line in place of the current Racial one. Then, the idea was to provide three unique points to be spent in that line, with the existing racials correlating at each level spent in them. Spend one point in "Khajit Legacy" and you would get the same bonus as you do now for speccing one point into each of those current racials. Spec two, and you get the same as having had two points in each.

However, you could also choose to split your points, and say, invest two points into the Orc racial bundle, and two into the Khajit one, to mix the bonuses at proportional power levels. The other main idea I've had is to instead just provide one of these unique points, and speccing that point acts as your racial passive choice giving you the same bonuses as rank 3 does now, for all of their respective passives (one point in "Dunmer Heritage" would mean the same gains as 3 points in each of the existing passives, then).

Then, they could add race appearance changes to the crown store as I've seen suggested in some threads instead as full-out race changes, without severely impacting gameplay, along with letting everyone choose how they want to look. Personally, I always had wanted to be an Argonian lizard-man when I first had seen a screenshot of ESO years ago. Their racials, however, are terrible for how I want to play the game, and so I do not look like a lizard-man . I'd happily pay a few bucks to be one, but not suffer in my character's performance as a result.

@ZOS_GinaBruno / @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I'm not comfortable with making races purely cosmetic. I'd still want a mandatory minimum of points spent within your own legacy, but it wouldn't solve the problem minmaxers have, so... Flavor passives, like Argonian swim speed? I don't know if it would be possible to create one for each race, though. Some brainstorming is needed.

Or better race recognition during quests, but that's not going to happen.

Samadhi · August 2015

WTB > better passive replacement for Stealthy for my Bosmer Sorcerer and Khajiit Templar.

10% damage bonus on a single hit that only applies to physical skills.

Whee.

Let me trade it for Nord's damage reduction passive or something -- or at least make the passive into something to give a % dodge chance on all damage so it is functionally similar.

Sheuib · August 2015

I am happy with the race changes. And, yes, my top two characters are a magicka altmer and stamina bosmer.

Jar_Ek · August 2015

If they essentially had a tiered set of available passives for all races then you could select the passives you wanted. These tiers could be set such that you could not get certain combinations (like multiple 10% max stats) and still had a distinct racial flavour. And could include a fluff passive at zero cost (swim speed, specific racial emote, etc).

Obviously this would take a bit of working out and min-max types would always find a best racial combination, but it would be better than now - where some races are always at the bottom of the heap.

AngryNord · August 2015

Bwookiee wrote: »

Or clear all racials and put them into 3 categories, a primary stat, a regen, and an "other" and you can pick one from each column.... If any class can tank/heal/dps, we should have the ability to customize racials too

Only if they remove Elder Scrolls from the game's title at the same time.

tinythinker · August 2015

Sheuib wrote: »

I am happy with the race changes. And, yes, my top two characters are a magicka altmer and stamina bosmer.

So you are happy they reverted the altmer and bosmer buffs?

AngryNord · August 2015

kogadrake wrote: »

The best things I have seen here are the concept of some type of pick 1 of 2or3 in each of the first 2 passives giving more flexability in what a class is good at, and then one unique thing to the race that is fixed. Hopefully we can get something like this when they do the big changes, but only time will tell.

If this happens I seriously hope Todd Howard gives Matt Firor an immediate cease and desist order. The differences between the races is such a staple of Elder Scrolls lore that if it was to be removed, the game should never be allowed to use the Elder Scrolls name.

AngryNord · August 2015

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Bwookiee wrote: »

Or clear all racials and put them into 3 categories, a primary stat, a regen, and an "other" and you can pick one from each column.... If any class can tank/heal/dps, we should have the ability to customize racials too.

Just a thought

I agree and have suggested this in the past, as well. Separate the aesthetics (looking/being a cat-man, a walking lizard, a snooty high-elf, etc. ) from the gameplay. My thought was to have a "Racial Legacies" skill line in place of the current Racial one. Then, the idea was to provide three unique points to be spent in that line, with the existing racials correlating at each level spent in them. Spend one point in "Khajit Legacy" and you would get the same bonus as you do now for speccing one point into each of those current racials. Spec two, and you get the same as having had two points in each.

However, you could also choose to split your points, and say, invest two points into the Orc racial bundle, and two into the Khajit one, to mix the bonuses at proportional power levels. The other main idea I've had is to instead just provide one of these unique points, and speccing that point acts as your racial passive choice giving you the same bonuses as rank 3 does now, for all of their respective passives (one point in "Dunmer Heritage" would mean the same gains as 3 points in each of the existing passives, then).

Then, they could add race appearance changes to the crown store as I've seen suggested in some threads instead as full-out race changes, without severely impacting gameplay, along with letting everyone choose how they want to look. Personally, I always had wanted to be an Argonian lizard-man when I first had seen a screenshot of ESO years ago. Their racials, however, are terrible for how I want to play the game, and so I do not look like a lizard-man . I'd happily pay a few bucks to be one, but not suffer in my character's performance as a result.

@ZOS_GinaBruno / @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I think this is an awesome and fun idea. It would be great if they were to implement something like this in the future =]

No it would not.

Kulvar · August 2015

Racial passives should not be identical, they should be balanced.
Improvement ideas are better for the game.

Example of idea:
For Argonian "Amphibious", they could have a +4/7/10% effectiveness of potion instead (in amount for potion with amount values, or duration for the others)

Samadhi · August 2015

tinythinker wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

I am happy with the race changes. And, yes, my top two characters are a magicka altmer and stamina bosmer.

So you are happy they reverted the altmer and bosmer buffs?

Can't speak for any Altmers out there, but the Bosmer buff was so minor that whether it is added or not does not really make a difference.

Still want a replacement for Stealthy though -- the passive was okay, but not great, back at launch, when it impacted Magicka skills.

Now it is one of the worst passives in the game -- only combat benefit is to possibly increase the damage of a single attack at the beginning of the fight, then lose all benefit from the passive for the entire remaining duration.

Since it only impacts physical attacks, and only works on physical attacks while crouching and undetected, pretty much the only way for my Bosmer Sorcerer or Khajiit Templar to benefit from it at all is to become a Snipe Monkey.
Not worth the points; wish both races instead had something that is worth the points.