Healing out scales everything.

Mr_Koh
Mr_Koh
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Healing completely out scales all damage. In 1.6 you were able to focus the healer in fights but with the TTK so low now that's not possible. This makes groups with healers too strong atm
  • bosmern_ESO
    bosmern_ESO
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    Are you sure? Because I'm a magicka templar with lots of spell damage and people can kill me easy even when I'm casting BoL inside my purifying ritual.
    ~Thallen~
  • Mr_Koh
    Mr_Koh
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    I'm sure. Testing has been done.
  • Marsgodofwar
    Marsgodofwar
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    Mr_Koh wrote: »
    I'm sure. Testing has been done.

    Can't disagree with that ;)
  • tinythinker
    tinythinker
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    Zsymon wrote: »
    Healing didn't get stronger, people just have more reaction time to cast their heals now.

    I wish people would stop complaining about everything and play the game for a few weeks. Find ways to adapt to the changes before saying this or that is too strong.
    Never gonna happen.

    Fifth anniversary year for ESO - share your best memories! :-)

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    "Light and darkness?

    "Whose light? The muted, sterile glow of Coldharbor? The ominous, deep shades pulsing like menacing glares in the depths of the Ashpit? The jarring kaleidoscope of the Shivering Isles?

    "Whose darkness? The shade cast by Mara's robes as she watches over her children? The cloak of Stendarr covering those in dire peril? The occult pathways of Arkay? Light and darkness, indeed."
  • Verrask
    Verrask
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    Healing has always been overpowered in PvP. That's why groups have to focus down healers. :)

    But I agree, it hasn't been a serious problem and it's just a shift in approach. There just like every other major role type, you can't brute force the issue and exploit weaknesses - just like blocknights, roll Dodgers, stealth runners, etc.

    The kill times are just crazy though. I guess that's what they are looking for.
  • BRogueNZ
    BRogueNZ
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    People are disappoint. What! he'd be dead in 1.6. He ain't dead in 1.7 and omagerd he's even getting healed, slowly...

    I've lost my 'superior skill'.. did I get nerfed in my sleep? can they do that?
  • Mr_Koh
    Mr_Koh
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    BRogueNZ wrote: »
    People are disappoint. What! he'd be dead in 1.6. He ain't dead in 1.7 and omagerd he's even getting healed, slowly...

    I've lost my 'superior skill'.. did I get nerfed in my sleep? can they do that?

    It's more like wow I got the jump on him I even ran his stamina too, oh he's healing only and not blocking I should be able to kill him now since he's taking full dps. Oh he's still not dying? Omg 20+ seconds of him spamming heals/shields while taking full dps and I die because other enemies jump into the fight. Okay let me test this, "hey healer may I test something on you" he replies, "sure" so I give him all I've got through the heals and he doesn't die nearly as fast as he should. Hmm let me put this on the forums.

    I put it on the forums and get your response. Great.
  • olemanwinter
    olemanwinter
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    Zsymon wrote: »
    Healing didn't get stronger, people just have more reaction time to cast their heals now.

    I wish people would stop complaining about everything and play the game for a few weeks. Find ways to adapt to the changes before saying this or that is too strong.

    If healing is a problem then just apply disease or healing debuffs.

    The problem is that fights go on for so long that who ever has the majority wins. If you can't prioritize to eliminate targets to even the odds, then the only thing that matters is who has more players. Just like a zerg.

    Small scale combat now feels remarkably like big zerg combat to me.

    "well they have 4 players and 1 healer. We have 6 players and 2 healers. We win. Engage autopilot"
  • Mr_Koh
    Mr_Koh
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    Zsymon wrote: »
    Healing didn't get stronger, people just have more reaction time to cast their heals now.

    I wish people would stop complaining about everything and play the game for a few weeks. Find ways to adapt to the changes before saying this or that is too strong.

    If healing is a problem then just apply disease or healing debuffs.

    The problem is that fights go on for so long that who ever has the majority wins. If you can't prioritize to eliminate targets to even the odds, then the only thing that matters is who has more players. Just like a zerg.

    Small scale combat now feels remarkably like big zerg combat to me.

    "well they have 4 players and 1 healer. We have 6 players and 2 healers. We win. Engage autopilot"

    Exactly. Pvp is not about outplay anymore it's about who has what. It should be more about teamwork and out plays. If you are a zerg that lacks cohesiveness it should feel that way. Instead of running over everyone because you have a healer that makes your group unkillable.
  • Forztr
    Forztr
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    and that's what you call testing?

    I picked up a coin and flipped twice it came up heads both times, heads need nerfing there should have been one head and one tail. Heads clearly OP they win like 100% of the time, it's true I tested it.

    You need way more data to come to the conclusion you have.
  • Zsymon
    Zsymon
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    I'm sorry dude, but the only way to solve that is by removing all healing spells from the game, and that is not going to happen. If your group can't deal with an enemy healer then that is a serious L2P problem.

    Any enemy healer will die in seconds as soon as he is focused. If you have five people in your group, and you all focus on the one or two healers, they will die fast, and then you can deal with the other enemy players. That's just common strategic thinking, and just because it's become a little harder now due to lowered damage, doesn't mean they should nerf healing to the point of uselessness.

    Adapt to the changes, learn how to deal with healers, stop complaining when you've only been playing a few days with the new changes.
    Edited by Zsymon on July 31, 2015 8:01PM
  • Mr_Koh
    Mr_Koh
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    If a healer is taking full dps from ONE dps person they should die and you all should l2p. If you want to face me and see how much I know how to play you can message me @Mr.koh and I'll happily show you myself the l2p issues you have.
  • Zsymon
    Zsymon
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    Use healing debuff and problem solved. No one needed the healing debuff before because healers just melted, but things have changed now, so adapt and use the debuff. -45% healing will make a huge difference.
    Edited by Zsymon on July 31, 2015 8:06PM
  • BRogueNZ
    BRogueNZ
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    Mr_Koh wrote: »
    BRogueNZ wrote: »
    People are disappoint. What! he'd be dead in 1.6. He ain't dead in 1.7 and omagerd he's even getting healed, slowly...

    I've lost my 'superior skill'.. did I get nerfed in my sleep? can they do that?

    It's more like wow I got the jump on him I even ran his stamina too, oh he's healing only and not blocking I should be able to kill him now since he's taking full dps. Oh he's still not dying? Omg 20+ seconds of him spamming heals/shields while taking full dps and I die because other enemies jump into the fight. Okay let me test this, "hey healer may I test something on you" he replies, "sure" so I give him all I've got through the heals and he doesn't die nearly as fast as he should. Hmm let me put this on the forums.

    I put it on the forums and get your response. Great.

    As fast as he should? How fast is that exactly?

    I'm not concerned that jumpers get jumped because they cannot one shot those who have set themselves up as healers.

    What's a healer supposed to do? Runaway.. this is a templar were talking about not a sorcerer right?
  • xaraan
    xaraan
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    Odd. We've been able to focus down healers with little problem and on my healer, my heals went drop by almost a third on the PTS vs. Live.
    Xaraan • NA • PC • AD • Argonian (x18 ) • 3/30/2014
    Xaraan - (Grand Master Crafter) - NB-Tank
    Xa-Raan - (Sun's Dusk Reaper) - Vampire Magicka-Nightblade
    Xaraan-dar - (Master Thief) - Stamina-Nightblade
    Xaraanosaurus - (Hist Shadow) - DK-Tank
    Xãraan - (Forge Breaker) - Magicka-DK
    Xa Raan - (Shehai Shatterer) - Stamina-DK
    Xaraanosaur - (Shadow Breaker) - Templar-Tank
    Xåraan - (Monster Hunter) - Magicka-Templar
    Xaraana - (Explorer) - Stamina-Templar
    Xaraanodon - (Ophidian Overlord) - Warden-Tank
    Xäraan - (Master Angler) - Magicka-Warden
    Xâraan - (Paragon) - Stamina-Warden
    Xaraanok - (Centurion) - Sorc-Tank
    Xaraanosorcus - (Magnanamous)- Magicka-Sorc
    Xa'Raan - (Apex Predator) - WW Stamina-Sorc
    Xaraan-Vahat - Necro-Tank
    Xaràán - Vampire Magicka-Necromancer
    Xa Rään - Stamina-Necromancer
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
    Class Representative
    You wonder why their are balance issues.

    1.6: TTK is way too fast! Ruining the game! Don't want to play a shooter!

    2.1 PTS: TTK is too slow! Healing OP! Bored out of my mind!

  • ToRelax
    ToRelax
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    Oh, that means people with some understanding of game mechanics don't die anymore on PTS (except bugs/crashes)?
    What a surprise... :smirk:
    DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
    The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...

    Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU
  • sabresandiego_ESO
    sabresandiego_ESO
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    ToRelax wrote: »
    Oh, that means people with some understanding of game mechanics don't die anymore on PTS (except bugs/crashes)?
    What a surprise... :smirk:

    test
    Ali Sabre -Nightblade
    Sabre North - Templar
    Sabre Ali -Sorcerror
    Sabre Inferno -Dragonknight
  • ToRelax
    ToRelax
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    ToRelax wrote: »
    Oh, that means people with some understanding of game mechanics don't die anymore on PTS (except bugs/crashes)?
    What a surprise... :smirk:

    test

    Well so far I died twice because of a bug with mistform (turned invisible) and countless times because I crashed. Nothing else.
    DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
    The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...

    Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU
  • Wreuntzylla
    Wreuntzylla
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    BRogueNZ wrote: »
    Mr_Koh wrote: »
    BRogueNZ wrote: »
    People are disappoint. What! he'd be dead in 1.6. He ain't dead in 1.7 and omagerd he's even getting healed, slowly...

    I've lost my 'superior skill'.. did I get nerfed in my sleep? can they do that?

    It's more like wow I got the jump on him I even ran his stamina too, oh he's healing only and not blocking I should be able to kill him now since he's taking full dps. Oh he's still not dying? Omg 20+ seconds of him spamming heals/shields while taking full dps and I die because other enemies jump into the fight. Okay let me test this, "hey healer may I test something on you" he replies, "sure" so I give him all I've got through the heals and he doesn't die nearly as fast as he should. Hmm let me put this on the forums.

    I put it on the forums and get your response. Great.

    As fast as he should? How fast is that exactly?

    I'm not concerned that jumpers get jumped because they cannot one shot those who have set themselves up as healers.

    What's a healer supposed to do? Runaway.. this is a templar were talking about not a sorcerer right?

    You are missing OPs point. Healers are supposed to die. That is their role. No fighting, no running, no delaying the fight until someone jumps in, just dying. And quickly.

    I'm glad I could be here to clear up any misunderstanding. Wouldn't want healers to start thinking they should be able to run away.
  • FireCowCommando
    FireCowCommando
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    BRogueNZ wrote: »
    Mr_Koh wrote: »
    BRogueNZ wrote: »
    People are disappoint. What! he'd be dead in 1.6. He ain't dead in 1.7 and omagerd he's even getting healed, slowly...

    I've lost my 'superior skill'.. did I get nerfed in my sleep? can they do that?

    It's more like wow I got the jump on him I even ran his stamina too, oh he's healing only and not blocking I should be able to kill him now since he's taking full dps. Oh he's still not dying? Omg 20+ seconds of him spamming heals/shields while taking full dps and I die because other enemies jump into the fight. Okay let me test this, "hey healer may I test something on you" he replies, "sure" so I give him all I've got through the heals and he doesn't die nearly as fast as he should. Hmm let me put this on the forums.

    I put it on the forums and get your response. Great.

    As fast as he should? How fast is that exactly?

    I'm not concerned that jumpers get jumped because they cannot one shot those who have set themselves up as healers.

    What's a healer supposed to do? Runaway.. this is a templar were talking about not a sorcerer right?

    You are missing OPs point. Healers are supposed to die. That is their role. No fighting, no running, no delaying the fight until someone jumps in, just dying. And quickly.

    I'm glad I could be here to clear up any misunderstanding. Wouldn't want healers to start thinking they should be able to run away.

    Hear hear! This should instead be a discussion of how to fix heals doing as much (or more) as damage abilities! Of course we dont want this to effect PvE so lets have it Cyrodiil specific.

    - Immobilized on casting a heal for.. 7 seconds! yes that sounds thought out! 7.
    - Character Grows 50% larger upon each heal cast for 5 minutes, so its easier to know who to hit.
    - All damage on players who receive heals is directed at the healer for 1 hour. So no matter who you hit in the group ZoS has you covered. You may not be on the right target, but he will go down soon(tm)!

    Alternatively, lets just buff bow to give you 50% more damage, that way you can just 1 shot anyone you want again.

    Edit: Im crazy, NB can cloak, Sorc can blink, but Templars and dragon knights have to walk. Walking should take resources. Templars need Resources to heal, healing keeps the group alive. Brian Wheeler is alive. Brian Wheeler works at Zenimax. Zenimax is Illuminati. = Walking now costs 200 stamina per step
    Edited by FireCowCommando on July 31, 2015 10:32PM
  • Vatter
    Vatter
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    LOLOLOLOL this thread is a joke. My templar heals SUCK now. I have to spam 4 or 5 times to get 50% health back and if I'm Debuffed - f**king forget about it.
  • The_Witch_Doctorate
    The_Witch_Doctorate
    Soul Shriven
    I have built a Witch Doctor as any Witch Doctor would be here are my traits and breakdown

    Healer (Self and Group), Destruction(Fire, Flame, Burning Affliction DPS), Illusion (Teleportation and Invisibility), Disease (slow 40% - 70%, High DPS afflictions), Fear(Flee, Immobilize 30 sec) and Soul (Trap, Drain and Siphon)

    I'm a Knight blade focusing Primary weapon Inferno destruction, Secondary Restoration group healer/dungeons and gates mainly, I also have a strong focus on The Siphon Skill Tree utilizing Strife (Funnel Health), Cripple and Agony, Shadow/ Veiled Strike for when thing get close it's damage output is huge once morphed to weapon and stamina, Path Of Darkness due to it's buffs and huge boost in movement speed 40% utilizing this with Teleport Strike, Destructive Reach and Veiled Strike is like watching an Orchestra conducting it's greatest piece of Art for minions I use Aspect of terror I had a Mage build and I didn't find Daedric summoning useful however this is great when stacked with all other passive buffers especially The Mages Guild, Destruction and Restoration Passives as wells Stamina Passives my class is a mixed Stamina and magika build

    You can be a Healer and still dish out serious brutality especially with all the right buffers

    I however have seen and get irritated by spam healers who don't/can't contribute to any combat roles in PVE dungeons or PVP
    Edited by The_Witch_Doctorate on August 1, 2015 1:04AM
  • xylena
    xylena
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    100cp in quick recovery and it'll feel like you're healing faster than you were in 1.6

    it's nearly impossible to kill someone with sustain dps or running them out of resources, but ironically you can still burst kill them in 2-3 shots with a stun timed correctly :(
    PC NA Multi Class -- Grand Overlord -- Flawless Conqueror -- Hit Squad GM
  • Hookgrin
    Hookgrin
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    Cyrodiil Updates
    [*] The Battle Spirit buff has been adjusted and now has 30% more damage reduction, 35% less healing received, and 50% less damage shield strength.

    Healing took a 5% bigger hit than damage. That and the fact it takes considerably more heals to achieve the same degree of healing means you run out of magicka quicker, which discourages a healer from spamming quite as much as they used to.

    If you are seeing a bigger effect from healing, I think it has more to do with the longer TTK giving the healer a chance to hit their team members with 1 or 2 more heals in that TTK time span. Which then gives that team member more time to effect a comeback and turn the battle.

    I'm finding it more challenging to heal not only because of the 35% reduction, but because the battles go on longer it is harder for a healer to stay out of focus for that long. I keep running out of magicka and have to do heavy attacks to get some back, not easy to stay out of focus doing that.

    At first I did not like how weak my heals felt but the challenging battles seem to make up for it. At least in IC, I haven't done open Cyrodiil yet, that will be interesting to see...

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