To people saying that "You can still get VR15/VR16 gear outside of IC" - you are wrong

ewhite106b16_ESO · July 2015

Why should VR 15/16 gear be vastly EASIER to get in scaled up old dungeons then it is in the imperial city? The drop rate/gear amount you mentioned per run seems pretty equal to what you'd get killing monsters or earning TV stones in IC for similar amounts of time, with zero risk of actually being ganked or losing stones.

IMO saying that the new v15/16 gear takes too long to get compared to V14 is a legitimate arguement, but all this "conspiracy to force PVE players into the IC PVP zone" is completely false and not founded in logic. Players have a "chance" of not getting any materials from an IC trip as well - and like I said above there's way more risk involved.

MissBizz · July 2015

firstdecan wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I'd check if I could, but I'm pretty sure you get vet 15 drops out of the tier 10 writ crates, and the tier 10 materials are on the drop tables for the hirelings, assuming you've maxed their level.

I just checked this, I've had two rounds of drops from hirelings with crafting maxed. I only got tier 9 materials, no tier 10 materials.

MaximusDargus wrote: »

But the whole point is that ZOS was using this as a selling point "you still can get VR15 and VR16 gear outside IC" to calm down people who were rightfully pointing out issue that VR15/VR16 gear is being locked behind a forced-PVP wall. Technically they (ZOS) were true, but practically the chance of getting VR15/VR16 gear (and obviously deconstructing it for ingots/leathers/cloths) is near 0.

Forced PvP paywall is the new meta. Long grind times are the existing and continuing meta. This pretty much ruins the game for anyone who does not want this DLC.

@firstdecan I made a post yesterday on the hireling thing, although a small amount, I did receive a tier 10 crafting mat from my hireling.

starkerealm · July 2015

Ourorboros wrote: »

pikey2112b14a_ESO wrote: »

[SNIP] anyone wanna guess what the research time is gonna be on trait 10?

No need to guess. If you have all passives:
Reduces research times by 25%, limits research time to 30 days, and allows the research of three items at once

And with ESO+, that drops to 27 days.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Without the research hard cap, it should be 128 days. The 11th trait will be 256, 12th 512, and the 13th trait, which we'll never see, would take 1024 days to research. Also known as almost three years.

Fortunately, the 4th point in research hardcaps everything to 30 days. So we never have to worry about that kind of insanity.

SorataArisugawa · July 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

VR15/VR16 gear will drop only from current dungeons minibosses and bosses. Not from every monster.

Does gear drop from other dungeon monsters (VR14 and down trash mobs) usually? If so, then I agree that's an issue. If not, then you wouldn't get it from anything other than dungeon bosses anyway, because no other monsters are VR15/16.

MaximusDargus wrote: »

So actually what is going to drop in current VR15/VR16 scaled dungeons?

If not the "Old dungeon-based item sets" then all we look forward is just plain nameless VR15/VR16 items dropping just one at time from only minibosses and bosses.

Aren't there a bunch of new sets? I assume that's what's going to be dropping in VR15/16 dungeons.

Yes, currently a dungeon scaled to it max lvl will drop max lvl gear from any monster. I can get both current max lvl gear form max scaled dungeon while killing a normal foot soldier or a scramp aswell as when i kill a full main boss.

From what i extracted from itemisation topic: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/199489/itemization-for-the-imperial-city-dlc-base-game-patch/p1

Old current dungeons (because this topic is about drop from all current dungeons) when scaled to VR15 and VR16 will drop VR15 and VR16 gear only when killing miniboss and boss. But at the same time it wont be any of the old dungeon themed gear like Ebon, Wormcult

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,
....

Will the old dungeon-based item sets like Ebon, Wormcult etc. be added as VR15/16 drops as well?
The current dungeon-based item sets, including the ones mentioned in this question, are not being update to VR15/VR16 for the Imperial City patch. We are considering updating them in the future.
....

I havent found information that current existing dungeons (old dungeons) scaled to VR15 or VR16 will drop any new gear.

So it pretty much leaves old dungeon bosses and minibosses having a CHANCE to drop so called "decon crap" in very small number (a normal dungeon have like what? 6 to 9 bosses+ minibosses while veteran have half of that?).

Ah cool, thanks for the clarification. So we need to ask someone like @ZOS_JessicaFolsom specifically whether the VR15/16 bosses in old dungeons will be dropping the new VR15/16 sets if they're not going to drop old sets.

And we need to push the case that all monsters in dungeons should be dropping "decon" gear at VR15/16 since they do so at all other levels...

Faulgor wrote: »

Actually, I don't think they do.
At least I can't remember ever getting anything but gold from trash mobs.

...unless they actually don't.

I don't understand why they changed that... this is so inconsequent... How it is now, you have the new 20 Dropsets, 3 new craftsets and the 23 old crafted ones. And yeah the Monster helmets. So 10 more.

But we missing juwelry, lot of the crafted Sets have very unintresting 5piece bonuses and we have not a big pool to choose from. At least the old dungeon sets would be very useful for specialisation. Please ZOS!!!!

Robbmrp · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

"Here are all the places and ways you can obtain VR15 and VR16 gear:

Bosses and mini-bosses in existing dungeons that are scaled-up to VR15 or VR16"

Is this some kind of joke?

VR15 and VR16 gear will drop ONLY from mini-bosses and bosses in existing dungeons scaled to VR15 and VR16?
This ends up with like 0 to max 6 pieces of VR15/16 gear per whole run, and of deconstructing those you have very high chance to get absolutely nothing or just one ingot/leather/cloth. And to make VR16 gear you need from 110 to 150 pieces.

I just hope people who were happy that they can get VR15/VR16 gear without joining FORCED PVP in IC realise that little detail

VR15/VR16 gear will drop only from current dungeons minibosses and bosses. Not from every monster.

So are the regular mobs dropping V14 gear then or nothing at all?

Rev Rielle · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

So you'll have to actually spend some effort to get that gear?

I see absolutely no problem with this.

It seems the issue is you have to spend effort to get any gear of that rank, and I believe therein lies the problem. Think about the entirety of the rest of the game: It's easy to get equipment of any rank/level, just more difficult to get great equipment. It should continue to be similarly so.

DDuke · July 2015

Rev Rielle wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

So you'll have to actually spend some effort to get that gear?

I see absolutely no problem with this.

It seems the issue is you have to spend effort to get any gear of that rank, and I believe therein lies the problem. Think about the entirety of the rest of the game: It's easy to get equipment of any rank/level, just more difficult to get great equipment. It should continue to be similarly so.

It's not more difficult to get great equipment on Live either... find a crafter, deconstruct some items or farm 10 minutes (assuming you didn't get the mats while still leveling up), spend some gold = BiS gear

In other MMOs: reach max level in green quest/leveling gear, run significant amount of dungeons or do PvP for blue gear, run raids / excel in PvP for epic gear

Also let me remind you... it's still easy to get any gear of VR14. But if you want higher end stuff, be prepared to go through some effort atleast. VR15 gear = 10-15 dungeon runs, VR16 gear... more than that.

Joy_Division · July 2015

Dude, just find another game. Post after post after post after post complaining about EVERYTHING in 1.7, the blocking, the PVP oriented theme, the itemization, etc. Sorry you can't jump permablock some PVE mobs and gather all the mats/gold you need in 30 minutes to completely outfit yourself with the best in slot gear.

Tankqull · July 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

pikey2112b14a_ESO wrote: »

[SNIP] anyone wanna guess what the research time is gonna be on trait 10?

No need to guess. If you have all passives:
Reduces research times by 25%, limits research time to 30 days, and allows the research of three items at once

And with ESO+, that drops to 27 days.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Without the research hard cap, it should be 128 days. The 11th trait will be 256, 12th 512, and the 13th trait, which we'll never see, would take 1024 days to research. Also known as almost three years.

Fortunately, the 4th point in research hardcaps everything to 30 days. So we never have to worry about that kind of insanity.

well i havent seen any information about a new trait yet...
its just a new material tier nothing to be learned as far i know...
if there is a new trait so what are its stats?

Emma_Overload · July 2015

I spent over an HOUR grinding incredibly tough mobs in the Imperial Prison. I got ONE piece of VR15 armor... which I later deconstructed for ONE mat, LOL.

They could triple the drop rate, and it would still be depressingly low.

These mobs are brutally tough to solo, by the way. The new and improved Rune Cage came just in time!

Dagoth_Rac · July 2015

Does anyone know if the trash mobs in White Gold Tower and Imperial Prison (the new DLC dungeons) drop VR15/VR16 gear you can decon? Or is it still only bosses and mini-bosses? Just wondering if this "only bosses drop VR15/16 gear" is a global change, or only affects existing dungeons that are being scaled up.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Does anyone know if the trash mobs in White Gold Tower and Imperial Prison (the new DLC dungeons) drop VR15/VR16 gear you can decon? Or is it still only bosses and mini-bosses? Just wondering if this "only bosses drop VR15/16 gear" is a global change, or only affects existing dungeons that are being scaled up.

In new dungeons everything have chance to drop VR15 and VR16 gear

"What are all the ways I can get VR15 and VR16 gear?
There are a variety of ways you can obtain VR15 and VR16 equipment, from crafting to PVE to PVP. Here are all the places and ways you can obtain VR15 and VR16 gear:

Bosses and mini-bosses in existing dungeons that are scaled-up to VR15 or VR16
Monsters in the Imperial City
Monsters in the new dungeons (Imperial City Prison and White-Gold Tower)"

Only in "Old dungeons" those that people without DLC have access to, there is that system where only minibosses and bosses will have chance to drop VR15 and VR16 gear

Darlgon · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Even with VR15 gear that takes around 11 refined materials and is using standard scaling just like VR13->VR14->VR15 with VR15/VR16 decon gear droping ONLY from bosses and minibosses in existing dungeons, we have situation where a person might end up with nothing after getting 1-6 pieces of VR15/VR16 gear fro minibosses and bosses and then upon deconstructing, getting 0 refined materials.

Ive deconstructed several batches of 20-30 VR16 items on PTS so far and i was getting roughtly 2-5 refined materials from that number.

To get that number of VR16/VR15 gear from current dungeons scaled to VR15/VR16 a player will have to run it 15 times before he can craft a VR15 pieces of gear.

This one has to ask stupid question...

You did spend your points to get to tier 10 on crafting (metal/cloth/wood) before doing the decons?

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Even with VR15 gear that takes around 11 refined materials and is using standard scaling just like VR13->VR14->VR15 with VR15/VR16 decon gear droping ONLY from bosses and minibosses in existing dungeons, we have situation where a person might end up with nothing after getting 1-6 pieces of VR15/VR16 gear fro minibosses and bosses and then upon deconstructing, getting 0 refined materials.

Ive deconstructed several batches of 20-30 VR16 items on PTS so far and i was getting roughtly 2-5 refined materials from that number.

To get that number of VR16/VR15 gear from current dungeons scaled to VR15/VR16 a player will have to run it 15 times before he can craft a VR15 pieces of gear.

This one has to ask stupid question...

You did spend your points to get to tier 10 on crafting (metal/cloth/wood) before doing the decons?

Yes, on all black/wood/clothier because i had mix of med/light/metal items.

NobleNerd · July 2015

The thing that I find interesting is .... where are you going to use this great new gear once you get it?

Repeating the 2 dungeons that you grinding in for weeks to get it in the first place?

or

Playing the forced PvP zone that will get old for many after about 1 month?

YOu have zero progression and content in this DLC.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Robbmrp wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

"Here are all the places and ways you can obtain VR15 and VR16 gear:

Bosses and mini-bosses in existing dungeons that are scaled-up to VR15 or VR16"

Is this some kind of joke?

VR15 and VR16 gear will drop ONLY from mini-bosses and bosses in existing dungeons scaled to VR15 and VR16?
This ends up with like 0 to max 6 pieces of VR15/16 gear per whole run, and of deconstructing those you have very high chance to get absolutely nothing or just one ingot/leather/cloth. And to make VR16 gear you need from 110 to 150 pieces.

I just hope people who were happy that they can get VR15/VR16 gear without joining FORCED PVP in IC realise that little detail

VR15/VR16 gear will drop only from current dungeons minibosses and bosses. Not from every monster.

So are the regular mobs dropping V14 gear then or nothing at all?

Just came back from PTS and tested this.

On PTS, when old dungeon is scaled to VR14 (tested in Elden Hollow), regular mobs do drop VR14 gear. The cutoff happens only at VR15 and VR16.

starkerealm · July 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

pikey2112b14a_ESO wrote: »

[SNIP] anyone wanna guess what the research time is gonna be on trait 10?

No need to guess. If you have all passives:
Reduces research times by 25%, limits research time to 30 days, and allows the research of three items at once

And with ESO+, that drops to 27 days.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Without the research hard cap, it should be 128 days. The 11th trait will be 256, 12th 512, and the 13th trait, which we'll never see, would take 1024 days to research. Also known as almost three years.

Fortunately, the 4th point in research hardcaps everything to 30 days. So we never have to worry about that kind of insanity.

well i havent seen any information about a new trait yet...
its just a new material tier nothing to be learned as far i know...
if there is a new trait so what are its stats?

There was some chatter about ten trait sets a long time ago. Haven't heard anything since 1.6, though.

Emma_Overload · July 2015

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Does anyone know if the trash mobs in White Gold Tower and Imperial Prison (the new DLC dungeons) drop VR15/VR16 gear you can decon? Or is it still only bosses and mini-bosses? Just wondering if this "only bosses drop VR15/16 gear" is a global change, or only affects existing dungeons that are being scaled up.

Yes, the mobs in the IP pictured in the post right above yours will drop items. BUT only very rarely!

djyrb · July 2015

Does anyone know if the bronze/silver/gold Undaunted chests drop VR15/16 trash gear that can be deconstructed?

Recremen · July 2015

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

Mos-De-Atmo wrote: »

You can buy the materials.

Really? That's odd as none of the guild vendors work.

I've no idea what you're trying to get at. Guild vendors have, to my knowledge, never worked on PTS. Why would they suddenly work? And what would be the point? If you're on PTS you already have access to IC and all its content, so you don't need to buy stuff from other players to begin with, you can get it yourself. Like, if you're trying to help test the crafting, you have every single resource you could even need right there. Do you not know how to buy the IC DLC from the crown store? They give everyone who logs on to PTS some fake crowns so you can buy it right away for testing purposes. Hope that helps!

reften · July 2015

I believe the reason why people are flipping out is this. I play ESO for PvP. PvE is just to level up my character to be stronger in PvP.

What Zos doesn't get is...players will be more then happy to play their game just by PvP'ing. Why they insist on the PvE is beyond me.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

djyrb wrote: »

Does anyone know if the bronze/silver/gold Undaunted chests drop VR15/16 trash gear that can be deconstructed?

Yes they do. I just burned 15 keys (silver/gold mix) on PTS. From that i got 37 various VR15 items including heavy/medium/light armors and wooden weapons (my PTS char is VR15) including monster paldurons. Upon deconstructing with max crafting passives i got:
1 sanded ruddy ash, 2 harvested silk, 2 colossus ingot

For someone without access to IC, 7 days of pledging would result in being able to craft at best 25% of a one piece of light armor.

MikeSkyrim333 · July 2015

What IC means?

Cuyler · July 2015

IC=Imperial City

MikeSkyrim333 · July 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

IC=Imperial City

Oh ty

Cuyler · July 2015

This level of difficulty acquiring v16 mats would imply that v16 could be the end all be all of BiS gear for the future....

Could it be possible that future DLCs like Orsinium will remain v16 and while offering many more opportunities to farm these mats outside of just the IC? I have to wonder...

That is....until VR is removed in it's entirety.

septvestige · July 2015

I see what OP trying to say and as a crafter and a PvE kinda guy i was affraid about this too but I hope this is only temporary until new PvE zones come and they are on the way we already know this.
In PvE you don't have to run in v15-16 gear v14 will do and you forgot to mention you can buy stuff from trading post.

Robbmrp · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

"Here are all the places and ways you can obtain VR15 and VR16 gear:

Bosses and mini-bosses in existing dungeons that are scaled-up to VR15 or VR16"

Is this some kind of joke?

VR15 and VR16 gear will drop ONLY from mini-bosses and bosses in existing dungeons scaled to VR15 and VR16?
This ends up with like 0 to max 6 pieces of VR15/16 gear per whole run, and of deconstructing those you have very high chance to get absolutely nothing or just one ingot/leather/cloth. And to make VR16 gear you need from 110 to 150 pieces.

I just hope people who were happy that they can get VR15/VR16 gear without joining FORCED PVP in IC realise that little detail

VR15/VR16 gear will drop only from current dungeons minibosses and bosses. Not from every monster.

So are the regular mobs dropping V14 gear then or nothing at all?

Just came back from PTS and tested this.

On PTS, when old dungeon is scaled to VR14 (tested in Elden Hollow), regular mobs do drop VR14 gear. The cutoff happens only at VR15 and VR16.

Wait, so what loot do the "regular" mobs drop when it's scaled to V15? Just gold and nothing else? I'd rather have the drop rate for V15 & V16 items increased and they can lose those things we sell to vendors, like daedric rocks and crap.

Robbmrp · July 2015

septvestige wrote: »

I see what OP trying to say and as a crafter and a PvE kinda guy i was affraid about this too but I hope this is only temporary until new PvE zones come and they are on the way we already know this.
In PvE you don't have to run in v15-16 gear v14 will do and you forgot to mention you can buy stuff from trading post.

Basically the OP is pointing out that it's going to take months not days to gear up your character with V15 & V16 items. The insanely length of time it will take to get enough resources together to do it. Unless you want to go farm IC for Tel Var stones and use them to buy ingots at 100 stones per 1 ingot.

This is going to break the bank for people wanting these items. 1 ingot is going to sell for like 1k regular gold making 1 white item 100k +. People are better off just baking their Tel Var Stones and buying the gear from the IC Vendors.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Robbmrp wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

"Here are all the places and ways you can obtain VR15 and VR16 gear:

Bosses and mini-bosses in existing dungeons that are scaled-up to VR15 or VR16"

Is this some kind of joke?

VR15 and VR16 gear will drop ONLY from mini-bosses and bosses in existing dungeons scaled to VR15 and VR16?
This ends up with like 0 to max 6 pieces of VR15/16 gear per whole run, and of deconstructing those you have very high chance to get absolutely nothing or just one ingot/leather/cloth. And to make VR16 gear you need from 110 to 150 pieces.

I just hope people who were happy that they can get VR15/VR16 gear without joining FORCED PVP in IC realise that little detail

VR15/VR16 gear will drop only from current dungeons minibosses and bosses. Not from every monster.

So are the regular mobs dropping V14 gear then or nothing at all?

Just came back from PTS and tested this.

On PTS, when old dungeon is scaled to VR14 (tested in Elden Hollow), regular mobs do drop VR14 gear. The cutoff happens only at VR15 and VR16.

Wait, so what loot do the "regular" mobs drop when it's scaled to V15? Just gold and nothing else? I'd rather have the drop rate for V15 & V16 items increased and they can lose those things we sell to vendors, like daedric rocks and crap.

As far as i tested VR15 dungeon, regular mobs dont drop any gear, or they drop it with artificially increased rarity. In VR14 dungeon we were able to obtain a first piece of VR14 gear in third room with mobs. In VR15 dungeon not a single piece of gear in whole group upon venturing past half of the dungeon.