To people saying that "You can still get VR15/VR16 gear outside of IC" - you are wrong

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

"Here are all the places and ways you can obtain VR15 and VR16 gear:

Bosses and mini-bosses in existing dungeons that are scaled-up to VR15 or VR16"

Is this some kind of joke?

VR15 and VR16 gear will drop ONLY from mini-bosses and bosses in existing dungeons scaled to VR15 and VR16?
This ends up with like 0 to max 6 pieces of VR15/16 gear per whole run, and of deconstructing those you have very high chance to get absolutely nothing or just one ingot/leather/cloth. And to make VR16 gear you need from 110 to 150 pieces.

I just hope people who were happy that they can get VR15/VR16 gear without joining FORCED PVP in IC realise that little detail

VR15/VR16 gear will drop only from current dungeons minibosses and bosses. Not from every monster.

DDuke · July 2015

So you'll have to actually spend some effort to get that gear?

I see absolutely no problem with this.

Kas · July 2015

i really hope you quite eso (or at least this forum) over this issue.
by the way, V16 stuff will require a substantial time investment, also when playing in IC

Mojmir · July 2015

[SNIP] anyone wanna guess what the research time is gonna be on trait 10?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Mos-De-Atmo · July 2015

You can buy the materials.

starkerealm · July 2015

I'd check if I could, but I'm pretty sure you get vet 15 drops out of the tier 10 writ crates, and the tier 10 materials are on the drop tables for the hirelings, assuming you've maxed their level.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

pikey2112b14a_ESO wrote: »

[SNIP] anyone wanna guess what the research time is gonna be on trait 10?

Its gonna be still 30 days (or around 27 with eso plus) because 4th passive limits research time to that number of days.

Also at those two biased comments pikeyme,

there is such need for extreme effort to get a whole piece of white generic traitless gear.

Running a dungeon is already effort.

But the whole point is that ZOS was using this as a selling point "you still can get VR15 and VR16 gear outside IC" to calm down people who were rightfully pointing out issue that VR15/VR16 gear is being locked behind a forced-PVP wall. Technically they (ZOS) were true, but practically the chance of getting VR15/VR16 gear (and obviously deconstructing it for ingots/leathers/cloths) is near 0.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Turelus · July 2015

pikey2112b14a_ESO wrote: »

Hell anyone wanna guess what the research time is gonna be on trait 10?

30 days, the skill ranked 4 caps it at 30 days.

Ourorboros · July 2015

pikey2112b14a_ESO wrote: »

[SNIP] anyone wanna guess what the research time is gonna be on trait 10?

No need to guess. If you have all passives:
Reduces research times by 25%, limits research time to 30 days, and allows the research of three items at once

And with ESO+, that drops to 27 days.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Also this:

"Will the old dungeon-based item sets like Ebon, Wormcult etc. be added as VR15/16 drops as well?
The current dungeon-based item sets, including the ones mentioned in this question, are not being update to VR15/VR16 for the Imperial City patch. We are considering updating them in the future."

So actually what is going to drop in current VR15/VR16 scaled dungeons?

If not the "Old dungeon-based item sets" then all we look forward is just plain nameless VR15/VR16 items dropping just one at time from only minibosses and bosses.

Effort not proportional to prize.

Rioht · July 2015

I think the issue people are overlooking here, isn't the availability of the new crafting materials, BUT the fact that we are losing a TON (probably close too 100) possible sets to choose from and being forced to use a small handful of sets.

In total we have like, 30 sets? If you include the mini-boss and dungeon boss drops?
Of which, 10 would be specific to 1 of each of the 3 roles minus the sets with +health/stam/magicka which are jack of all trades (nty). Further, maybe 2-3 out of those 10 would actually be relevant to your class and maybe 1 will be relevant to your build/playstyle.

It really pains me to hear that the devs have overlooked the opportunity to ADD to the existing item sets. Rather than replace them with mediocre and limited item sets

RDMyers65b14_ESO · July 2015

Mos-De-Atmo wrote: »

You can buy the materials.

Really? That's odd as none of the guild vendors work.

DDuke · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

pikey2112b14a_ESO wrote: »

Hell anyone wanna guess what the research time is gonna be on trait 10?

Its gonna be still 30 days (or around 27 with eso plus) because 4th passive limits research time to that number of days.

Also at those two biased comments pikeyme,

there is such need for extreme effort to get a whole piece of white generic traitless gear.

Running a dungeon is already effort.

But the whole point is that ZOS was using this as a selling point "you still can get VR15 and VR16 gear outside IC" to calm down people who were rightfully pointing out issue that VR15/VR16 gear is being locked behind a forced-PVP wall. Technically they (ZOS) were true, but practically the chance of getting VR15/VR16 gear (and obviously deconstructing it for ingots/leathers/cloths) is near 0.

Chance of getting VR15 gear - high, because they require normal amount of materials.

Around 10-15 runs~ and you should have your gear.

VR16 gear, that's going to require effort, but this is just MMO basics for you.
You don't get best gear with close to zero effort, and running a dungeon once or twice is close to zero effort (30 minutes at most).

And "generic white gear" (why would it be traitless, does it require effort to find trait gems also now?

) is 6-7k gold away from legendary (again, next to no effort whatsoever required).

Conclusion: You can get VR15/VR16 gear outside IC, but it's not going to be as ridiculously easy as before. Thread reported for spreading misinformation.

Etaniel · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

"Here are all the places and ways you can obtain VR15 and VR16 gear:

Bosses and mini-bosses in existing dungeons that are scaled-up to VR15 or VR16"

Is this some kind of joke?

VR15 and VR16 gear will drop ONLY from mini-bosses and bosses in existing dungeons scaled to VR15 and VR16?
This ends up with like 0 to max 6 pieces of VR15/16 gear per whole run, and of deconstructing those you have very high chance to get absolutely nothing or just one ingot/leather/cloth. And to make VR16 gear you need from 110 to 150 pieces.

I just hope people who were happy that they can get VR15/VR16 gear without joining FORCED PVP in IC realise that little detail

VR15/VR16 gear will drop only from current dungeons minibosses and bosses. Not from every monster.

You also forget that people who farm tel var stones and buy sets will be able to sell those sets in guild stores. So actually, the game requires zero effort for you to get your sets, you just have to walk up to a guildstore and spend some gold.

Freeman · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

"Here are all the places and ways you can obtain VR15 and VR16 gear:

Bosses and mini-bosses in existing dungeons that are scaled-up to VR15 or VR16"

Is this some kind of joke?

VR15 and VR16 gear will drop ONLY from mini-bosses and bosses in existing dungeons scaled to VR15 and VR16?
This ends up with like 0 to max 6 pieces of VR15/16 gear per whole run, and of deconstructing those you have very high chance to get absolutely nothing or just one ingot/leather/cloth. And to make VR16 gear you need from 110 to 150 pieces.

I just hope people who were happy that they can get VR15/VR16 gear without joining FORCED PVP in IC realise that little detail

VR15/VR16 gear will drop only from current dungeons minibosses and bosses. Not from every monster.

@MaximusDargus

Have you even looked at the differences between V15 and V16? Very, very, very minimal at best. Plus they use the same glyphs. And V15 gear uses the standard # of mats required to craft. Not the 100+ that V16 is looking like. There will be absolutely no reason to rush for V16 gear since the power jump will be really insignificant. So no need to panic

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Even with VR15 gear that takes around 11 refined materials and is using standard scaling just like VR13->VR14->VR15 with VR15/VR16 decon gear droping ONLY from bosses and minibosses in existing dungeons, we have situation where a person might end up with nothing after getting 1-6 pieces of VR15/VR16 gear fro minibosses and bosses and then upon deconstructing, getting 0 refined materials.

Ive deconstructed several batches of 20-30 VR16 items on PTS so far and i was getting roughtly 2-5 refined materials from that number.

To get that number of VR16/VR15 gear from current dungeons scaled to VR15/VR16 a player will have to run it 15 times before he can craft a VR15 pieces of gear.

Faulgor · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Even with VR15 gear that takes around 11 refined materials and is using standard scaling just like VR13->VR14->VR15 with VR15/VR16 decon gear droping ONLY from bosses and minibosses in existing dungeons, we have situation where a person might end up with nothing after getting 1-6 pieces of VR15/VR16 gear fro minibosses and bosses and then upon deconstructing, getting 0 refined materials.

Ive deconstructed several batches of 20-30 VR16 items on PTS so far and i was getting roughtly 2-5 refined materials from that number.

To get that number of VR16/VR15 gear from current dungeons scaled to VR15/VR16 a player will have to run it 15 times before he can craft a VR15 pieces of gear.

I don't mind the materials being rare, but getting nothing just plain sucks. You should get at least 1 material per decraft.

Enodoc · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

VR15/VR16 gear will drop only from current dungeons minibosses and bosses. Not from every monster.

Does gear drop from other dungeon monsters (VR14 and down trash mobs) usually? If so, then I agree that's an issue. If not, then you wouldn't get it from anything other than dungeon bosses anyway, because no other monsters are VR15/16.

MaximusDargus wrote: »

So actually what is going to drop in current VR15/VR16 scaled dungeons?

If not the "Old dungeon-based item sets" then all we look forward is just plain nameless VR15/VR16 items dropping just one at time from only minibosses and bosses.

Aren't there a bunch of new sets? I assume that's what's going to be dropping in VR15/16 dungeons.

firstdecan · July 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

I'd check if I could, but I'm pretty sure you get vet 15 drops out of the tier 10 writ crates, and the tier 10 materials are on the drop tables for the hirelings, assuming you've maxed their level.

I just checked this, I've had two rounds of drops from hirelings with crafting maxed. I only got tier 9 materials, no tier 10 materials.

MaximusDargus wrote: »

But the whole point is that ZOS was using this as a selling point "you still can get VR15 and VR16 gear outside IC" to calm down people who were rightfully pointing out issue that VR15/VR16 gear is being locked behind a forced-PVP wall. Technically they (ZOS) were true, but practically the chance of getting VR15/VR16 gear (and obviously deconstructing it for ingots/leathers/cloths) is near 0.

Forced PvP paywall is the new meta. Long grind times are the existing and continuing meta. This pretty much ruins the game for anyone who does not want this DLC.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

When voidstone equipment was introduced for the first time there were no "Tricks" like this "only bosses and minibosses will drop VR15/VR16 gear"

Every monster in appropriately scaled dungeon was dropping gear of that level. A player who spent his time and put effort into completing dungeon would come out with 20-30 pieces of generic white/green no name gear of that lvl and then have a fair chance of obtaining crafting materials after deconstructing gear.

Introducing an artificial rarity like thas with "only bosses and minibosses" dropping VR15/VR16 gear despite whole dungeon being scaled up to that level. Greatly increases the chance that players will be coming out with nothing for the effort they put into completing a fully scaled up dungeon.

Its just another thing that is being given away to RNG.

Kas · July 2015

voidstone was in the game since launch.
the amounts were increased for v12 and v14 but that's all.

SorataArisugawa · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Also this:

"Will the old dungeon-based item sets like Ebon, Wormcult etc. be added as VR15/16 drops as well?
The current dungeon-based item sets, including the ones mentioned in this question, are not being update to VR15/VR16 for the Imperial City patch. We are considering updating them in the future."

So actually what is going to drop in current VR15/VR16 scaled dungeons?

If not the "Old dungeon-based item sets" then all we look forward is just plain nameless VR15/VR16 items dropping just one at time from only minibosses and bosses.

Effort not proportional to prize.

WHAT??? They scale to VR 16 but you wont get the sets in VR16??? That is real nonsense. Pls @ZOS_GinaBruno let the guys fix this. The dungeons will be no use... just for the head and the daily. That is not good choice guys... You will focuse al the players on farming the 2 new dungeons. They will be fast bored and scream for something new. It is not so hard for you to scale the sets. Please do this with 1.7!!!

Faulgor · July 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

VR15/VR16 gear will drop only from current dungeons minibosses and bosses. Not from every monster.

Does gear drop from other dungeon monsters (VR14 and down trash mobs) usually? If so, then I agree that's an issue. If not, then you wouldn't get it from anything other than dungeon bosses anyway, because no other monsters are VR15/16.

Actually, I don't think they do.
At least I can't remember ever getting anything but gold from trash mobs.

asteldian · July 2015

I think that's a shame but won't lose sleep over it. Unless pvping I have no need for the v15 or 16 gear and if interested in the dlc it is more easily acquired. For pve players I would just keep on doing the usual, saving up whatever mats you get and use them with Orsinium.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

VR15/VR16 gear will drop only from current dungeons minibosses and bosses. Not from every monster.

Does gear drop from other dungeon monsters (VR14 and down trash mobs) usually? If so, then I agree that's an issue. If not, then you wouldn't get it from anything other than dungeon bosses anyway, because no other monsters are VR15/16.

MaximusDargus wrote: »

So actually what is going to drop in current VR15/VR16 scaled dungeons?

If not the "Old dungeon-based item sets" then all we look forward is just plain nameless VR15/VR16 items dropping just one at time from only minibosses and bosses.

Aren't there a bunch of new sets? I assume that's what's going to be dropping in VR15/16 dungeons.

Yes, currently a dungeon scaled to it max lvl will drop max lvl gear from any monster. I can get both current max lvl gear form max scaled dungeon while killing a normal foot soldier or a scramp aswell as when i kill a full main boss.

Current max lvl of dungeon scaling is VR12 and running dungeon at this level usually gives me a loot of 20 to 30 white/green/blue items (in normal usually white/green, in veteran white/green/blue). They are decon crap, either traitless, or weapons of something, sometimes "Setless" named item that are also good only for deconstructing, and of course intricate items. The number of items you loot in one dungeons is enough to ensure that if the purpose of run was to gain materials for deconstruction, you will get something even if your RNG will be very bad.

The logical step would be that with increasting "old dungeons" scale up to VR16, the pattern will remain and every mob in dungeon will have chance on dropping VR15 or VR16 gear.

From what i extracted from itemisation topic: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/199489/itemization-for-the-imperial-city-dlc-base-game-patch/p1

Old current dungeons (because this topic is about drop from all current dungeons) when scaled to VR15 and VR16 will drop VR15 and VR16 gear only when killing miniboss and boss. But at the same time it wont be any of the old dungeon themed gear like Ebon, Wormcult

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,
....

Will the old dungeon-based item sets like Ebon, Wormcult etc. be added as VR15/16 drops as well?
The current dungeon-based item sets, including the ones mentioned in this question, are not being update to VR15/VR16 for the Imperial City patch. We are considering updating them in the future.
....

I havent found information that current existing dungeons (old dungeons) scaled to VR15 or VR16 will drop any new gear.

So it pretty much leaves old dungeon bosses and minibosses having a CHANCE to drop so called "decon crap" in very small number (a normal dungeon have like what? 6 to 9 bosses+ minibosses while veteran have half of that?).

RDMyers65b14_ESO · July 2015

This thread is accurate. After three hours, I deconned what drops I had and only had three ingots. You can't make anything with three ingots. The guild stores on the pts don't work. Therefore, the only way to get the V15-V16 armor is the TV stones which is a problem with 100 % loss rate.

Why should we have to wait for Orsinium to get the better armor which I am guessing will be V17-18 as the ores will not be the same ingots as in IC.

Kupoking · July 2015

Step one : find 3 buddies
step two: get v15-16
Step three : get into any dungeons and scale it to v16
Step four : kill stuff.
step five : deconstuct said v15 16 items.
step six : craft it

Enodoc · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

VR15/VR16 gear will drop only from current dungeons minibosses and bosses. Not from every monster.

Does gear drop from other dungeon monsters (VR14 and down trash mobs) usually? If so, then I agree that's an issue. If not, then you wouldn't get it from anything other than dungeon bosses anyway, because no other monsters are VR15/16.

MaximusDargus wrote: »

So actually what is going to drop in current VR15/VR16 scaled dungeons?

If not the "Old dungeon-based item sets" then all we look forward is just plain nameless VR15/VR16 items dropping just one at time from only minibosses and bosses.

Aren't there a bunch of new sets? I assume that's what's going to be dropping in VR15/16 dungeons.

Yes, currently a dungeon scaled to it max lvl will drop max lvl gear from any monster. I can get both current max lvl gear form max scaled dungeon while killing a normal foot soldier or a scramp aswell as when i kill a full main boss.

From what i extracted from itemisation topic: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/199489/itemization-for-the-imperial-city-dlc-base-game-patch/p1

Old current dungeons (because this topic is about drop from all current dungeons) when scaled to VR15 and VR16 will drop VR15 and VR16 gear only when killing miniboss and boss. But at the same time it wont be any of the old dungeon themed gear like Ebon, Wormcult

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,
....

Will the old dungeon-based item sets like Ebon, Wormcult etc. be added as VR15/16 drops as well?
The current dungeon-based item sets, including the ones mentioned in this question, are not being update to VR15/VR16 for the Imperial City patch. We are considering updating them in the future.
....

I havent found information that current existing dungeons (old dungeons) scaled to VR15 or VR16 will drop any new gear.

So it pretty much leaves old dungeon bosses and minibosses having a CHANCE to drop so called "decon crap" in very small number (a normal dungeon have like what? 6 to 9 bosses+ minibosses while veteran have half of that?).

Ah cool, thanks for the clarification. So we need to ask someone like @ZOS_JessicaFolsom specifically whether the VR15/16 bosses in old dungeons will be dropping the new VR15/16 sets if they're not going to drop old sets.

And we need to push the case that all monsters in dungeons should be dropping "decon" gear at VR15/16 since they do so at all other levels...

Faulgor wrote: »

Actually, I don't think they do.
At least I can't remember ever getting anything but gold from trash mobs.

...unless they actually don't.

Kupoking · July 2015

Besides mats and v16 se will flood the market in guild traders soon.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Step one : find 3 buddies
step two: get v15-16
Step three : get into any dungeons and scale it to v16
Step four : kill stuff.
step five : deconstuct said v15 16 items.
step six : craft it

Not "stuff"

Kill only minibosses or bosses in all current "old dungeons". That is 6 to 9 monsters per whole dungeon that have a "Chance" to drop VR15/VR16 gear (there also chance you will get a worm or crawler or empty soul gem, which is common drop from boss).

Then upon deconstructing "all that gear" looted only from bosses and minibosses you still have chance to get absolutely 0 of crafting materials with maxed out crafter.

I_killed_Vivec · July 2015

Don't you need the new potency runes to create enchantments for your VR15/16 gear? And aren't these only available in IC?

This is beginning to look like an extraordinarily lengthy grind, whether you buy the DLC or not, for a very minor gain.