Door "Gankers" on the PTS

WebBull · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are watching the performance of the server and clients across the PTS in the city, sewers and the dungeons.

Unfortunately we are all "watching" it. That is until we crash

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Thymos wrote: »

Maybe they should grant an immunity buff that lasts about 10-15 seconds after you leave the safe zone in the sewers, so if there are gankers, you're immune to their damage and can just smash them in.

Rather than immunity, it would need some buffed up version of invisibility. Invisibility in which you can run around and do everything like entering door without being revealed.
Of course during that invisibility player would be either forbidden to attack anyone or attacking anyone would break it. ]
And i mean buffed up version of invisibility to make sure it cant be detected by anything.

Because with simple immunity enemy gankers would just follow a player untill it wears off.

Kerioko · July 2015

jaaf wrote: »

There's already a counter measure to this in many places, for example when taking doors between districts. Within a few meters of the other side of the door you get a buff called Imperial Truce (or something like that) that prevents you from attacking or being attacked. It's a blue aura on your character. My guess is they just need to add this to a few more places where you encounter a loading screen.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, I have noticed this Truce buff on a lot of doors . Would it be possible to just make it so the same buff covers all entrances and exits in and around IC that require a loading screen. This seems like it would be the easiest solution since it is already programmed into many of the door areas.

Robbmrp · July 2015

mtwiggz wrote: »

This is absolutely a huge issue already. Being killed during a load screen takes no skill on either end. Hope that ZoS fixes this well before IC goes live. Otherwise IC will become a giant zerg farmfest, which I'm sure it'll be anyways, but not due to load screens.

Hey @mtwiggz, did you get ganked after my wife and I took off last night? We never did make it back online to try anything else out. We are going to try out some PVP tonight, hopefully from the sounds of it there will be other factions running too so we can test the LOS changes and see if lag's still there.

Robbmrp · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are watching the performance of the server and clients across the PTS in the city, sewers and the dungeons.

Thank you for the information and all of your help. It's greatly appreciated.

Robbmrp · July 2015

Thymos wrote: »

Maybe they should grant an immunity buff that lasts about 10-15 seconds after you leave the safe zone in the sewers, so if there are gankers, you're immune to their damage and can just smash them in.

That would work too. Anything to resolve the spawn campers. It's hard to defend yourself when your killed while loading.

Halfwitte · July 2015

It's funny I called it before it even befire it hit the PTS that IC was going to be a giant grief fest. How is it they didn't think of this before hand? Leads me to believe either they're not listening to player base or their testers or their testers are playing nice.

MrGhosty · July 2015

Denaia wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

I just don't get it...

In the PTS what is the point to grief others players experience?
You farm TV stones? You cant keep them since zos can reboot to zero the server at any time.
You are a pve only "carebear" player and you want that others understand how bad IC is and you wish that this update will fail, because is not what you want?
You want other players to quit so the dlc cant be tested the right way?

I just don't get it srsly...

Maybe there is NO POINT in griefing others players experience?

And the fact players do it in PTS just shows that they DONT NEED ANYTHING to act like jerks?

This just shows that its BAD without any incentive (PTS progress wiped out) so imagine HOW BAD its gonna be on LIVE server if they will be able to keep their stones.

This is what PTS is about. To test things. And this time human (PVPers) behaviour have been tested. People are jerks and encouraging and awarding harassment and ganking will only lead to degradation of ESO community.

People who gank these doors should be banned from ever accessing PTS again... PTS is for testing, if we cannot test the patch will not be able to be launched properly. Have fun doing this behavior on live, but not on the pts.

Strictly speaking, the gankers ARE testing IC. They are seeing exactly how close they can push things and should ZOS not act on that feedback it will only be exponentially worse when it hits live.

Hamrb · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Besides the large central doors between districts, there are two doors to the left and right down the walls which lead to an elevated safe location in the neighboring district. We will however look at solutions at the main doors as well.

Im happy to see you guys are paying attention to our feedback. I just wanted to point out that the craft-able set locations in the IC (where you can make the three different craft=able sets) are being camped very badly. with the action in the IC its hard for people to stay on the door too long, but if a PvP guild decided to sit on top of one of those doors, I don't think much could stop them. and if the door was cleared up by pvpers and sweeper bosses, they can be right back in less than a minute.

UrQuan · July 2015

Denaia wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

I just don't get it...

In the PTS what is the point to grief others players experience?
You farm TV stones? You cant keep them since zos can reboot to zero the server at any time.
You are a pve only "carebear" player and you want that others understand how bad IC is and you wish that this update will fail, because is not what you want?
You want other players to quit so the dlc cant be tested the right way?

I just don't get it srsly...

Maybe there is NO POINT in griefing others players experience?

And the fact players do it in PTS just shows that they DONT NEED ANYTHING to act like jerks?

This just shows that its BAD without any incentive (PTS progress wiped out) so imagine HOW BAD its gonna be on LIVE server if they will be able to keep their stones.

This is what PTS is about. To test things. And this time human (PVPers) behaviour have been tested. People are jerks and encouraging and awarding harassment and ganking will only lead to degradation of ESO community.

People who gank these doors should be banned from ever accessing PTS again... PTS is for testing, if we cannot test the patch will not be able to be launched properly. Have fun doing this behavior on live, but not on the pts.

I emphatically disagree. While I wouldn't do this myself (I wouldn't have any fun at all doing it), I'm glad people are doing it on PTS because that exposes the problem before it hits live. This gives ZOS a chance to put a mechanic in place to prevent this ganking on live.

SeptimusDova · July 2015

Gankers are interfering with product testing. Which will incur more costs to Zenimax to fix problems later that could be found now.No need to test the depths of greed and moral depravity of gankers. But we need to test the DLC to ensure that things that are not a social pariah can be addressed. Lag/Server load/ Client resource usage/ Drivers/ HID compatibility/ Boss fights and sequences/ Animations/ Quests and Quest tracking/ Tool tips/ Spells/casts/morphs. the entirety of changes need to be tested. Ganking tests none of that. They are there because they can be..

Sorry if this seems off topic but Zenimax these actions in the PTS will affect your profit margin. Some of your clients are pi$$ing in the Petri dish and ruining your control. Unless you of course want to monitor their behavior and design accordingly then kudos to you.

timidobserver · July 2015

Thymos wrote: »

Maybe they should grant an immunity buff that lasts about 10-15 seconds after you leave the safe zone in the sewers, so if there are gankers, you're immune to their damage and can just smash them in.

It would probably be better if you couldn't do or take any damage for X seconds after going through a door.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Gankers are interfering with product testing. Which will incur more costs to Zenimax to fix problems later that could be found now.No need to test the depths of greed and moral depravity of gankers. But we need to test the DLC to ensure that things that are not a social pariah can be addressed. Lag/Server load/ Client resource usage/ Drivers/ HID compatibility/ Boss fights and sequences/ Animations/ Quests and Quest tracking/ Tool tips/ Spells/casts/morphs. the entirety of changes need to be tested. Ganking tests none of that. They are there because they can be..

Sorry if this seems off topic but Zenimax these actions in the PTS will affect your profit margin. Some of your clients are pi$$ing in the Petri dish and ruining your control. Unless you of course want to monitor their behavior and design accordingly then kudos to you.

That is part of how you check a game design mechanic: run it with actual players. Killing in PVP is the most core, and basic part there is to it, and yes, some people will play just to quote-unquote "win", even when it takes zero talent to do so when someone's on a loading screen

. You can't forsee everything at design-time as you're well aware

, and they probably felt that the multiple exists would mitigate most issues with this.

Now, I don't agree that it's "interfering" with testing because it is testing, and the point of the zone is to be PVP... but a basic like "your character is immune to all effects and cannot cause any effects, however once you take any action including game input like moving the cursor, character movement, rotating your character, etc. so the game knows you've loaded in, you become fair game after five seconds, although you become visible immediately (so enemies do have time to know you've come through the door, but cannot kill you while you load in). This ensures along with the multiple entry points that people coming into the battle don't get an unfair advantage of being able to scout, position, and wait for the right timing to get an easy win on an ongoing fight, but also eliminates the cheesy unfairness of killing people who aren't even playing in-game because they're on the load screen

.

WebBull wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are watching the performance of the server and clients across the PTS in the city, sewers and the dungeons.

Unfortunately we are all "watching" it. That is until we crash

The only crash I've had yet in about 10 hours of gameplay was after trying to install an updated Minimap addon that stated it was compatible now, but was causing me to crash anyway in the Imperial City Sewers. I did, however, take care to only copy the addons and their respective savedvariables that I deemed essential to basic testing and that code-wise had the least potential for conflicts with the API changes. My short-list that has been trouble-free for me in terms of crashing or performance issues (saved variables do not save, though, on PTS) is:

-Binder (however, without saved variables working, it's useless

).
-BugEater (suppresses errors as designed).
-CombatLogStatistics by ZeakFury, a very old one but due to having been from the beta era shows all of the now-not-hidden buff/debuff effects applied to and by your character including incoming skill names of what hit you.
-Foundry Tactical Combat (works, but cannot be customized at all).
-PansyLabs Combat Indicator (highlights compass border in a slight red overtone when you enter combat state).
-Rainbow Reticle, which gives you a nice center-screen text on your crosshair when hovering over any NPC or player with their HP number and total, percentage, and character name (it also colors people on your friends list differently, as well as guildmates, with all enemies appearing as red).

This isn't to say other addons may or may not work, but this is hopefully a starting point for people with crashing issues to try out

.

Suntzu1414 · July 2015

please take a look at DOOR FARMING.

its causing our testing....to be untestable. :P

Kill Well
ST

ZOS_BrianWheeler · July 2015

Currently we are testing the immunity "purple buff" as a different version that has a time out and dissipates if you initiate attacking an enemy. If this goes well, odds are we'll put it up on PTS for you all to break...I mean test.

CaptainObvious · July 2015

Will there be a Sunny D counter to the purple stuff?

Menelaos · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Currently we are testing the immunity "purple buff" as a different version that has a time out and dissipates if you initiate attacking an enemy. If this goes well, odds are we'll put it up on PTS for you all to break...I mean test.

Is that the Sanctuary Flag buff you describe? Otherwise, said buff could also be an idea. I've seen it across the crafting station "Housings" if I am not mistaken.

VirtualElizabeth · July 2015

@ZOS_BrianWheeler I apologize in advance if I am being redundant but you are looking at the ladder entrance that enters the city from the EP sewers as a possible protected zone? That's where I got slammed even before I had fully passed the loading screen, LOL.

CaptainObvious · July 2015

On a more serious note, why not make a small alcove that conditionally only lets players of a particular alliance to zone in and get acclimated.

Suggestion would be to make it large enough to allow people to enter stealth and have multiple exits to avoid a choke point. The problem with the doors is that they make a choke point where people are defenseless.

So adding a purple buff will just delay the inevitable for a few seconds in some cases.

You want a staging area that allows people to sneak in or group up charge in. Could make a hallway with alliance colored drape that prevents targeting bit can be moved through by the "owning" faction.

In some cases, people will be waiting, possibly in large groups. Especially early on while the content is new and fresh.

Sharkano · July 2015

The concept that entrances to CYRO are all in Cyro and can be camped is also silly. I went in IC, and forgetting the repeated crashes, the concept of being in close quarters with 5,000 gankers has NO appeal at all. Forcing people to go in here for V16 stuff is crazy. I love PVP, but not when I have to get through the entire Russian Army at Stalingrad to get to a mob. The concept is idiotic. They need to rethink IC or it's gonna crash and burn fast (unless you are in the Horde).

CaptainObvious · July 2015

So they need a staging area where players can coordinate and build a defensible group and break out, or allow a stealthy way out that can avoid the bears by not giving a tell of presence.

If the door is in plain sight, then people will just gather and wait beyond the safe area in stealth. If they see someone appear and enter stealth, then they will position in a net formation to catch them as they attempt to depart.

ZOS_BrianWheeler · July 2015

We are also looking at the ladders both into and out of the sewers.

Xael · July 2015

If I wanted Trammel I would play UO.

Sorry, I disagree with the majority of people in this thread. It's a PvP zone, you should be fair game. I am against having super guards at an entrance or an immune area. This is PvP and *** ganking is part of the mix.

Age of Conan had this problem with a few zones in the newbie area(s) like Whitesands. What they did was eventually make a person a immune for x amount of seconds after zoning or logging into the game. The catch was they needed to stand still or they would lose the buff. I think this might be a fair work around as the ESO loading screens are wretched unforgivable things that often crash the game. PTS loading screens seem longer than live.

SeptimusDova · July 2015

This is a PTS we are here to test and find problems Xael.

Xael · July 2015

SeptimusDova wrote: »

This is a PTS we are here to test and find problems Xael.

Not sure your point.
I don't want a carebear feature added to live. I am fine with it on test but certainly not live. I am entitled to my opinion just like you.

UrQuan · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Currently we are testing the immunity "purple buff" as a different version that has a time out and dissipates if you initiate attacking an enemy. If this goes well, odds are we'll put it up on PTS for you all to break...I mean test.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are also looking at the ladders both into and out of the sewers.

See, and this is exactly why I'm glad people are camping the doors/ladders and ganking people the second they go through. Because such behavior has exposed a critical flaw in the Imperial City design that shouldn't make it to live, and guess what? ZOS is paying attention to our complaints about it and working on addressing it! This is what the PTS is supposed to be all about!

SeptimusDova · July 2015

Xael thank you for the clarification. I would never begrudge you your opinion good sir. Nor besmirch your character. My concern is that we have a PTS where we can find problems. and fix them in an efficient manner. What is PTS, is in no way a guarantee of what live will be.I agree PVP is PVP. We see the same in that regard. I just want a pts that helps us find problems and bugs.Not one that gets sidetracked either for the lulz or the thrills. They will be time for that on live.

May you have a splendid day and fair winds my friend.

Pangnirtung · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are watching the performance of the server and clients across the PTS in the city, sewers and the dungeons.

It isn't just Cyrodiil that is laggy.

The regular crafting stations in Craglorn are so slow that when I am crafting to fulfill a writ I can count ONE THOUSAND ONE, ONE THOUSAND TWO, ONE THOUSAND THREE, before I get a message on screen that I have actually created a sword or whatever. That is SLOWWWWWW.

CaptainObvious · July 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

See, and this is exactly why I'm glad people are camping the doors/ladders and ganking people the second they go through. Because such behavior has exposed a critical flaw in the Imperial City design that shouldn't make it to live, and guess what? ZOS is paying attention to our complaints about it and working on addressing it! This is what the PTS is supposed to be all about!

Obvious flaw is obvious. Should have been considered in the initial requirements phase when they decided if this is for the hardcore or general PvP consumption.

The question is, will/should there be a strategic weakness generated that can be exploited by the outer map/regular cyrodiil based on number of players in the center?

Since they are evaluating gate opening states, etc. then it is hazy how metal the intent is. Otherwise, there would be a general alliance war tactical of perma-trapping a few bars of players in IC while the map changes color because the gates would lock bi-directionally when not in control of the center ring. The hardcore-ness being, the only way to leave a locked IC would be in a body bag. No teleport out, no res in IC except from another player. No banking Tel Var stones or keeping them after leaving the area. No safe zones.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Xael wrote: »

If I wanted Trammel I would play UO.

Sorry, I disagree with the majority of people in this thread. It's a PvP zone, you should be fair game. I am against having super guards at an entrance or an immune area. This is PvP and ganking is part of the mix.

Age of Conan had this problem with a few zones in the newbie area(s) like Whitesands. What they did was eventually make a person a immune for x amount of seconds after zoning or logging into the game. The catch was they needed to stand still or they would lose the buff. I think this might be a fair work around as the ESO loading screens are wretched unforgivable things that often crash the game. PTS loading screens seem longer than live.

I overall agree, and feel like the only change that's needed is what you describe AoC having done... I didn't get the idea from there (I just thought it up in my post earlier in this thread), but sounds like it worked well

?