Dedicated Tel Var Stone System Feedback Thread

NobleNerd · July 2015

Takuto wrote: »

I think that rather than the flat percentage of stones lost there should be a sort of progressive tax on them. Such that it increases based on the amount you are carrying, from say 25-75%.

My example equation is as follows, where N is the number of stones you are holding:
N*0.25 +MAX(0,(N-100))*0.25 + MAX(0,(N-1000))*0.25

This means that you lose:
25% of first 100
50% of next 900
75% of any above 1000

I like this idea. I was thinking more increased with death or time, but this could work also.

NobleNerd · July 2015

Docmandu wrote: »

Incredible... how STUPID are these people in designing this.. if spawn camping is possible, IT WILL BE DONE.

This post is about ideas and fixes for the TV Stones. There are posts for issues with spawn camping (and it is an issue right now).

Thymos · July 2015

Laplace wrote: »

Something needs to be done about gate camping. There's guilds camping the gates and making the zone practically inaccessible to other players. You can literally be killed due to loading screens. And that's not even getting into the unplayable levels of lag and latency.

bank guards should do the trick, right?

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Thymos wrote: »

Laplace wrote: »

Something needs to be done about gate camping. There's guilds camping the gates and making the zone practically inaccessible to other players. You can literally be killed due to loading screens. And that's not even getting into the unplayable levels of lag and latency.

bank guards should do the trick, right?

Yeah, the city justice system kind of guards, that cant be run over by zerging mass.

Thymos · July 2015

Perhaps implement a penalty to how much TV stones you get from PvP kills based on proximity to opposing faction's safe zone doors. Make it so when you're right next to it, within 30 feet, you get zilch, and progressively less penalty as you get to say 100 ft from the doors. Then after that, it's all free reign.

Jakhajay · July 2015

I tried following a group member through the door from Elven Gardens to Nobles District, but could not use the door (no prompt) had to /reloadui, during which some scumbag smurf and his cherry buddy had ganked us. Unluckily for them, they got no stones from me, some other gank-monkey had nicked them. This happened 3-4 time before I gave up even trying.

Antirob · July 2015

KayleeSeranada wrote: »

I was in the kitchen, thinking about the ideas/concerncs/etc. addressed in this thread, and an idea occurred to me that I think has really good potential:

What if there was a system implemented that lets the player decide how many TV stones they will lose? Of course, to balance the risk-reward, this same number would also be the maximum percentage of stones that they player could loot from both mobs and players.

What I'm imagining is maybe a slider, from 0-100. The player could pop it to 100 and get the full experience from the IC just as it is now - good TV stone drop rates, high thrill PVP content, and the high risk-reward that the IC expansion was designed to have.
More cautious players, though, could set it to just 50 or so. This would ensure that they keep 50% of their stones on death. The trade-off would come in the way that they would then only be allowed to loot up to 50% of stones from other players, and their mob drop rate would also be cut in half. So basically, they'd collect stones more slowly, but would have more security over them.
This system also caters to crafters or content tourists: they can just plop their bar to 0 and comfortably make their way over to a crafting station or to a district without having to worry about playing the meta right that moment.

With this system, players can choose their own risk-reward and it would ensure that it would be constantly balanced out for *every* player, giving us an overall better experience, and giving ZOS a more accessible DLC package (and more thus more sales).

I don't feel comfortable with the suggestions of just dropping the loot rate to 50% because it just feels like you're paying for a trip to the bank at that point, and it unbalances the risk-reward. This system, however, keeps it in check while simultaneously making the game more accessible to a wider range of players. Furthermore, this system fits well with the goals of the current system (to make a high-risk, adrenaline-pumping PVP experience) and still favours the more intense PVP'ers who would put their slider to 100 since they would get that nervous feeling while respawning when they go to check their TV stone amount to see if they have any dignity left to bank, not knowing if the got killed by someone who looted 20% of their stones or all of them, but giving them a chance to not have lost all of them.

interesting aidea. Not a fan of the toggle idea the guy below had. The whole point is having a risk. if people dont want a risk then imp city is noty a place for them. The night is dark and full of terrors

Samadhi · July 2015

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

...
My thoughts: I can lose 100% of my stones in lag-free PvP and not be upset. I can lose 1% of my stones because of laggy PvP and be incredibly upset. If you guys can fix the lag and promote smaller groups, this will be gold. If it goes live and is destroyed by lag, no one will want to enter IC, and the few people that do go and farm gear will make millions. I don't even want to think about pledges in IC if it will be this laggy.

Very cool idea ZOS, just please...please implement it correctly.

PS: Holy vigor spam, batman!

Yup.
The lag is the most upsetting factor; it makes a good system seem otherwise frustrating.

Looking forward to IC, but certainly will not buy IC if ZOS does not fix the lag and crash issues.

Diamond_10 · July 2015

i hate it. you should never ever lose anything you have worked hours to get. leave that *** to failed games like darkfall

Thymos · July 2015

I have another idea:

Make it so when you earn stones via NPC mobs, those are flagged as NPC stones, and you can only lose a percentage to another player or players once killed.

The stones you get from PvP kills will be flagged as Player stones, and when killed you lose all of your player stones as well as the percentage of the NPC stones.

madhatternb16_ESO · July 2015

Could the percentage TV stone loss not also be dynamic like the split?

For instance:
You get killed by one player, you lose 100% of your stones.
You get killed by 2 people, you lose 90% of your stones.
You get killed by 3 people, you lose 80% of your stones. (or whatever other percentage diminishing return you feel appropriate, 20% per player?)
Etc. Down to maybe a minimum of 10 or 20% loss.

Massively promote small group play, and far less frustrating when you get rolled over by a blob.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

There should be at least a system that will know if your death was 100% cause of PVP or you were killed off in 99% by PVE mob and PVPer just poked you into death.

In that case PVPer shouldnt get any stones because practically he didnt do anything to kill someone. He was just waiting like vulture.

Icy_Nelyan · July 2015

My feedback about tel var stones is:

- In the sewer they are easy to obtain (because is easy to kill npc also alone and if you want more you always find a group to make a "train" and farm every single side and corner of the sewer, included boss) and this is very good for a PvE side;

- Trying to obtain tel var stones in the "upper (I mean in the districts) IC is not so easy as it look like in the sewer, well there are npcs around (especially near your alliance spwan point) but there are also enemies from other alliances and is thrilling, funny and sometime rewarding to have some (the number is indifferent, well if you have more then 700 stones I think will be a good idea to bank them and come back to fight ^^) and trying to fight other players to obtain more and more, clearly there is a downside you can be beaten and lose all of them, but is a good compromise if you are looking for a risky espirience that will reward you with a lot of cool currencies (AP and tel var stones in a single shot ^^);

_ The only thing I found pretty strange is that sometime I have not received tel var stones after a fight (not against other players but against npcs), I am a magicka dps DK with destruction staff, I did damage like everyone in the group against every npcs we encountered but sometime I was not rewarded with tel var stones after an npc was killed, probably there is a minimum damage you have to do to take the reward and for this I receive tel var stones, if this is the case well if someone is in a group of 10 or more people fighting against the same npcs there will be always someone without a good a reward for his/her efforts in that fight and I think this is not very good.

Said that, I experienced the positive and the negative of this system in a play session of about 3 hours, I died 3 times in pvp fights for my mistake and lost more then 150 tel var stones each time, I was wandering with other 5 people of my alliance in the arena district and found several fights (some rewarding in terms of tel var stones, some funny but no tel var stones were dropped from enemies), sometime we won, sometime we lost, I enjoyed every single fights, I love pvp and when I died I came back every time to take back what I had lost and I had so much fun doing this that I can't explain, well the little rage for losing my precious tel var stones was there every time I fell on the ground lifeless but, what I personally think is, there's no point of doing a good pvp fight if there is no penalty when you die and I accept this penalty if I will be rewarded when I kill someone ^^.

In conclusion, a little summary of my experience:

1) farmed an amount of 168 tel var stones,

2) found the entrance for the arena district,

3) did a lot of fights, some won some lost,

4) lost all the stones,

5) did the previous points 3 times,

6) ended the pvp side of IC (I came back into the sewer) farmed some more stones,

7) deposited 315 tel var stone in the bank and logged off.

I am an hard pvp fan on every games, here I found a good pvp and now, with this system, I found my paradise, there's nothing better of the fear of dying in pvp and this system do this very very very well, I'm not worried about losing my stones because I will return to fight to regain what is mine every single time I'll lose them.

I'm not a nightblade I am a DK and this is not the paradise only for NB is it for me too.

This system is the ULTIMATE PVP in my opinion and I don't think that this system need an improvement like decreasing tel var stones lost in a pvp fight, losing all of them is perfect for me (rember I already lost all of them 3 times), anyway I think that probably will be a good idea to change the fact of the "last hit" by the players if someone is fighting against an npc.

P.S.: I'm sorry for my bad english it is not my mother language and of course I'm sorry for the wall text too

Thymos · July 2015

Pretty good write up @Icy_Nelyan

Xjcon · July 2015

The idea of losing stones is great. Lost a bit myself already and when your grouped and killing people it's great. But why punish people that go through the time to take down some of those pve bosses with some guy who sneaks up and 1 shots you able to take them all and vanish or run away?

EQBallzz · July 2015

Zahne wrote: »

I am disappointed that so many players decided that 'testing' means camping the doors as people come in and nothing else

Did you really expect something else? They created a target rich environment that rewards without penalty those who can exploit the game, environment and lag to their advantage. Want to open the door to the crafting area? You know what will happen when your stealth breaks momentarily to open the door. Want to kill mobs? You know gankers will be waiting until you are low health to get a cheap kill with maximum rewards of 100% TV stones. Want to change areas? You know players will be waiting for you to appear and knowing full well you won't have control of your character yet so they can get a cheap kill with maximum TV rewards. Want to take on enemy players head on? You know there will be huge AE blobs of organized and experienced PvP players making circuits through IC clearing out mobs and players alike.

PvP players always like to tout the thrill of risk/reward and the challenge of fighting other players instead of "dumb" mobs but the reality is that most PvP players don't really want that. They want cheap kills for big rewards and little risk. They don't want a challenge if they can circumvent it with a guaranteed kill. Those that are yelling loudly about the merits of this type of system are more than likely the ones hiding in the shadows waiting for a cheap kill and exploiting all these methods to reduce their risk and challenge as much as possible at best or at worst doing it to grief other players.

I think maybe once the control mechanism is more in place these things will be less of an issue so it really will largely depend on what mechanic is in place to determine control of IC. However, that will likely just shift the problems of this zone elsewhere.

If the mechanism put in place makes it easier for an alliance to lock down IC it will diminish some of this undesirable behavior but will turn IC into a mostly PvE area which defeats the purpose and it will also mean strong alliances will dominate IC and lock the other alliances out which is stupid for paying customers to get locked out of content they purchase because of something largely out of their control.

On the other hand if IC becomes more open to all there will be a higher number enemy players which produces more PvP but encourages this undesirable behavior. I dunno what the answer is tbh but if they don't put a number of controls/safeguards in place this zone is going to be a huge fail IMO.

lolo_01b16_ESO · July 2015

I've been playing a bit with a DC char on PC. The area of the sewers next to our home base was nice for getting Tel Var stones as the npcs respawn fast and no enemy players came to this area. In the upstairs area closest to our home base there have been a few red and yellow players so we had some nice fights. I never got ganked while changing areas, only once while fighting some yellows I got killed by a red player who wanted to show off that his copied character has much better gear than my template one (why can't we have traits researched to craft our own armour on pts?)
In other sewer areas I died quiet fast as they were mostly controlled by other alliances, in other city districts fights were similar to my "home" district.
During my PvP fights I lost and won about equal amounts of Tel Var stones, but I didn't really care about securing them and due to Ravager being bad for pvp I lost more fights than I normally would with my own char.

Sharee · July 2015

Icy_Nelyan wrote: »

_ The only thing I found pretty strange is that sometime I have not received tel var stones after a fight (not against other players but against npcs), I am a magicka dps DK with destruction staff, I did damage like everyone in the group against every npcs we encountered but sometime I was not rewarded with tel var stones after an npc was killed, probably there is a minimum damage you have to do to take the reward and for this I receive tel var stones, if this is the case well if someone is in a group of 10 or more people fighting against the same npcs there will be always someone without a good a reward for his/her efforts in that fight and I think this is not very good.

I believe the answer lies in the patch notes:

"Every monster has a chance to drop a new currency called Tel Var Stones. "

xaraan · July 2015

What you should do with the TVStones IMO, is just reward players for killing other players, the same way you were reward them for killing mobs. Make players worth 1 or 2 or 5 stones no matter what (and if more than 5 or 6 guys do considerable damage to one players, they get ZERO). And players that get killed lose the 10%, whether they die from mobs or other players.

The current system is broken.

Every single thing you've done in this game since launch just encourages zerging, including IC (and the changes to proxy det).

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO · July 2015

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I am not a fan of losing Tel Var Stones. There are going to be players who just sit on spawn points and farm TV stones from people. Maybe they just take a certain percentage from you instead of all of them.

And those people will eventually get ran over and die and lose everything as well.

Jakhajay wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

I'm not so concerned with the player death thing and loosing stones, although I think its a little rough considering there is no easy way to get out of the area's without taking a death from a NPC and loosing a few or player death and loosing them all. But I am really disheartened by the crafting aspect of this. I am sure if you manage to get into the 4 man dungeons to grind stones you are ok but if you don't do that and you are trying to gear up you are stuck with crafted vr14 sets for a very long time. You need 150 vr16 mats per crafted piece (light armor) and if I recall it cost 40 stones per 1 mat (might be more for armor stuff). One might say well you can decon the junk you loot but that seems very inefficient. you have 50% chance to get 1 mat from deconstruction.

I'm sorry but whoever dreamed up the tel- var stones and linked them in this way to crafting was an idiot. Crafting gear or consumables should not be linked to the collection of tel-var stones. You should be able to enter the world and gather what you need to craft period. You should not have to farm stones in order to buy mats so you can craft items. This fact on top of the pvp loss of all stones makes it a very frustrating and extremely imbalanced. Essentially the best players will monopolize the end game economy.

150 mats for 1 piece of v16 gear!? @ 40TV a mat!? That's absolutely re-frakkin'-diculous!

It makes me want to puke!

Seriously??? so not worth it...skipping this will wait for the next PVE content screw
this

djnapstyb14_ESO · July 2015

[/quote]
Ran into a group of 10-12 EP players, broke LOS around a corner hid on top floor of a house for a while. Ganked one of them who wandered behind a building - went after another player got interrupted by incoming daedra. Headed back to base successfully after that.[/quote]

This is what I was hoping to hear. Sounds awesome

redspecter23 · July 2015

Here's my take.

The Tel Var stones are a system that will frustrate players. Maybe not all, but a reasonable portion.

A system designed and known to frustrate players might not be ready for live in the current state. Purposely putting a frustrating mechanic into the game is "a bad idea". Players should be excited to get into the new content. They shouldn't be worrying if this is something they probably won't even want to buy due to a mechanic that benefits gankers and those exploiting load screens and mob aggro mechanics. This is a system that can work and create good feelings among players instead of apprehension. It's just not there in this current form.

There are loads of good ideas in this thread. Hopefully the devs will give this another pass before it hits live.

Robbmrp · July 2015

Vatter wrote: »

Heres the problem with the tv stone system.

you can't guarantee a smooth and lag free game. Not even a remotely smooth and lag free game. You never could. You never will. you have extreme lag spikes ALL the time. and I mean ALL THE TIME. I have already died multiple times to lag and have lost all my stones because of it. its not my system. its not my service provider. its you. always has been.

I just don't see how its possible to keep the 100% stone loss until you are able to completely fix the latency issues.

I agree with you 100%. Every lag spike my wife and I have encountered in Cyrodil coincides with everyone else we are grouping with having the exact same problem as well as being rubber banded. These aren't customer system related issues. And with the little amounts of people that can get into the PTS Campaign there's no accurate way to test the extent of the lag. The campaign is limited and people are already having game crashing lag. It's only going to get worse with the more people that's put into Cyrodil.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, ZOS really needs a full test server to be able to test these updates. It should be exactly like the Live Server with every campaign testable and able to hold every player NA or EU has.

wraith808 · July 2015

madhatternb16_ESO wrote: »

Could the percentage TV stone loss not also be dynamic like the split?

For instance:
You get killed by one player, you lose 100% of your stones.
You get killed by 2 people, you lose 90% of your stones.
You get killed by 3 people, you lose 80% of your stones. (or whatever other percentage diminishing return you feel appropriate, 20% per player?)
Etc. Down to maybe a minimum of 10 or 20% loss.

Massively promote small group play, and far less frustrating when you get rolled over by a blob.

This is a good idea too. The %s need to be worked on, but with the lost of TV stones, there definitely needs to be more of an incentive not to team up and grind players.

MaximusDargus wrote: »

There should be at least a system that will know if your death was 100% cause of PVP or you were killed off in 99% by PVE mob and PVPer just poked you into death.

In that case PVPer shouldnt get any stones because practically he didnt do anything to kill someone. He was just waiting like vulture.

I'd disagree. That's my favorite time in delves... when people camp and wait for you to get involved in PvE. Watch your environment at all times should be the rallying cry for Cyrodiil. And too many times it's not. This makes you develop environmental awareness.

driosketch · July 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Two things I didn't like.

1) I don't like the insta-aquistion of Tel Var stones. I had no idea how many I got from a mob, a boss, or a player. I know there is the counter on the bottom right, but without actually seeing them in a loot screen, it was not easy to get a general sense of how many I had or how fast I was acquiring them. Especially is a fast paced and frenetic environment of the IC.

2) I think players should actually have to loot defeated players to acquire the Tel Var stones. As it is, one of the most infuriating ways to die is to be sniped by someone who stays at maximum range and targets you when you are not in a position to fight back. I get it this is legit in war, but there is a reason why in the Middle Ages, archers prisoners had their hands cut off (if not outright killed) and snipers are often put up against a wall and shot in contravention of the Geneva Codes. People should not just automatically get a windfall of hundreds or thousands of Tel Var stones from just getting a kill, but they should have to at least approach the corpse and fight for the reward.

How about this for the system, I may have heard something like it somewhere. Add a meter like the one for rezing people. You start looting, exposed, and if you fill the meter you get 100% of that player's stones. Cut out early, you only get partial amount.

Halke · July 2015

driosketch wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Two things I didn't like.

1) I don't like the insta-aquistion of Tel Var stones. I had no idea how many I got from a mob, a boss, or a player. I know there is the counter on the bottom right, but without actually seeing them in a loot screen, it was not easy to get a general sense of how many I had or how fast I was acquiring them. Especially is a fast paced and frenetic environment of the IC.

2) I think players should actually have to loot defeated players to acquire the Tel Var stones. As it is, one of the most infuriating ways to die is to be sniped by someone who stays at maximum range and targets you when you are not in a position to fight back. I get it this is legit in war, but there is a reason why in the Middle Ages, archers prisoners had their hands cut off (if not outright killed) and snipers are often put up against a wall and shot in contravention of the Geneva Codes. People should not just automatically get a windfall of hundreds or thousands of Tel Var stones from just getting a kill, but they should have to at least approach the corpse and fight for the reward.

How about this for the system, I may have heard something like it somewhere. Add a meter like the one for rezing people. You start looting, exposed, and if you fill the meter you get 100% of that player's stones. Cut out early, you only get partial amount.

I am loving this idea. You want the stones, come and get them.

Maddux · July 2015

I am not a Fan of "Winner takes all" in Politics but we need it in the IC. As Others before my says, it isnt right that a Daedra hits you down to 1% and the Player who give you the last Hit will get 100% of your Stones. Do 51% Damage or get nothing.

War and PvP allways brings the worst Sides of the People to Daylight and never the best Sides as you can se now in the IC. Spawn and Doorcampers killing People in Loadingscreens and they have no long Profit from that because this is just the PTS and everything they got is worth nothing. What do Zenimax think that Sociopaths on the PTS do after IC hits Live and they get a real Reward out of that Behaviour? Being better Persons and dont do that anymore? You just have to play a bit of PvP in the last Months or other Games before to see that even temporary or permanently Bans didnt stop that People from exploiting Mechanics and using Bugs.

I dont have a Problem with losing all my Stones in PvP but the other Player should have more Effort than doing the last hit or killing Player while Zoning. Make Players invincible and invisible for a short Period after clicking a Door to get rid of this Spawncampers.

Make the Daedras a 4. Faction that attacks everyone in there Range and not just Players on there Hatelist. This will make Tanks and Taunts useless in IC but you cant kill Players anymore while they get hit by the Daedra without self getting attacked from the Daedra. And the Daedras need a better Vision to detect sneaking Players so you cant sneak around easily while looking for your next Victim.

There are a lot good Ideas in this Thread that can lead to e better Expirience in the IC for the whole Community. Ok, not for the Sociopaths but they are not a Part of this or a Community. But i dont know if there is enough Time to implement some of this Ideas in the next Month. I didnt even know if it is enough Time to implement my Ideas.

DDuke · July 2015

Current system is fine.

If you don't like risk/reward type PvP, you're not forced to participate. You can still do the usual care free PvP elsewhere in Cyrodiil, and people who do enjoy risk/reward type PvP can enjoy it in Imperial City (I know I will).

Having different options is good.

Saturn · July 2015

I think the Tel Var stone works realyl well. However, what you do need to think about are loading screens when you use doors / sewer grates, it sucks losing all your stones because you emerge defenceless while still being locked in a loading screen. Maybe implement a short-term immunity buff to avoid this kind of nonsense.

briandivisionb16_ESO · July 2015

Tel Var Stones are cool but I hope they are valuable or incentive will disappear.