Maw of the Infernal set still not viable

Dracane · July 2015

I assume, I'm one of the few people who actually cares for this set.
I did some testing with this set and it is still not very satisfying.

The main problem is, that none of the Daedroth's attacks can crit, which must be a bug. This kills the Daedroth's damage.
Another problem is the short duration. It has no chance to catch enemies who even move a bit and then when it has the chance to attack, it just dissappear while it attempts to attack. Also, valueable seconds get lost due to the summoning animation of the Daedroth.

I think, if his attacks can crit, it maybe moves faster and lasts longer, then this set is definately viable and no longer a waste of gear slots.
I don't want to sacrifise 1 Magicka and 1 spell damage trait to have this thing.

Dracane · July 2015

It also seems to me, that the cooldown of the Daedroth sometimes does not reset. I was on a graveyard with many undead and in over 100 light attacks, it did not proc even though it has a 5% chance to do so on each light attack.

Maybe I was very very unlucky.... don't know. But I at least want to mention it.

Thraben · July 2015

I think you were unlucky. Sometimes he procs, and sometimes not.

But it is true, they promised to make the daedroth viable (viable means valkyn skoria viable), but he isn´t. He needs to stay longer.

Dracane · July 2015

Thraben wrote: »

I think you were unlucky. Sometimes he procs, and sometimes not.

But it is true, they promised to make the daedroth viable (viable means valkyn skoria viable), but he isn´t. He needs to stay longer.

Yea. He is nowhere near as good as Skoria or the Engine guardian. My Daedroth can't catch targets who move with normal speed, because his range is too short and he doesn't last long enough.

And he should be able to crit. All the other sets can crit, why can't he crit ? I'm sure this is an undiscovered bug, as nobody was using this set.

Contraptions · July 2015

I agree with what OP wrote. I tested out the set on PTS and it is definitely still WAY too weak compared to the other popular sets like Skoria. Here is why:

The main problem is his AI. It's absolutely stupid. I watched him run up to an assassin type enemy, wind up his fire breath, and then MISS COMPLETELY since the enemy moved two steps to the left.

In another test against a ranged mob (initially in close range), he spent 1 second staring at me after the summoning and 1/2 seconds more running to the enemy's position. He then wasted a few more chasing after that mob (since ranged mobs like to back away from melee range and into cover) since apparently he doesn't like to attack while moving. If the sorc's Clannfear/Familiar can do it, why can't this summon do it as well?

Next test against a group of 2/3 mobs. He apparently has occasional aggro issues as well, since he'll swipe one enemy once, then mysteriously disengage to chase down that archer 10 meters away that just hit him with an arrow spray. WHY?

And finally, the nail in the helmet for this set. The daedroth that is summoned is NOT immune to CC. Unlike every other daedroth in the wild, the one you summon can be knocked around. Is he gonna breathe fire on that Ravager mob? Nope, he was interrupted by an Uppercut. Is he gonna chase down that Ice Mage? Nope, he just got rooted by her Icy Whirlwind.

And finally, when all the stars align and he actually gets into a good position to breathe fire on a bunch of enemies... he immediately DIES since his timer ran out. I know the above problems also apply to sorceror summons, but at least they last indefinitely, so they will eventually hit their targets.

Sigh. I love the idea of combat companions, and any game with competent friendly AI gets a huge plus in my book. Skyrim had companions that knew how to swap spells based on enemy weaknesses, and this MMO can't even get a simple attack sequence right?

This is a boss set, Zenimax. It is supposed to be something players should be excited to get and excited to use, so here are my suggestions on how to improve the set

- increase duration of summon
- increase attack speed
- or perhaps scrap the Daedroth altogether and replace it with a skeletal/Dremora Fire Mage or something (Banished Cells theme I guess). Ranged NPCs don't have the problem of wasting time chasing enemies, which would increase the time actually spent ATTACKING THE ENEMY.

Dracane · July 2015

@Contraptions Great right up, thank you very much.

And I also tested, you cannot command him like the Sorcerer can control his pets. You cannot tell him which target to attack.
This set is so lackluster and this tiny damage buff doesn't help it, especially if it is not even able to crit.
Why are Sorcerer pets allowed to crit and the Daedroth not ? This could be a great summoned creature for non-Sorcs if it wouldn't act like a disoriented Dinosaur.

actosh · July 2015

They improved Nerienth´s, cant be so hard to make the other Monster Sets viable ^^

Dracane · July 2015

actosh wrote: »

They improved Nerienth´s, cant be so hard to make the other Monster Sets viable ^^

Nerien Eth hits pretty hard now, I tested it. This is a great option to Valkyn now. As not everyone uses DoTs. This basially is the non-DK Valkyn

So basically all monsters sets are great now expect for the Daedroth and this Fungal Grotto thing

Colosso-monstro · July 2015

Dracane wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

They improved Nerienth´s, cant be so hard to make the other Monster Sets viable ^^

Nerien Eth hits pretty hard now, I tested it. This is a great option to Valkyn now. As not everyone uses DoTs. This basially is the non-DK Valkyn

So basically all monsters sets are great now expect for the Daedroth and this Fungal Grotto thing

Which sucks because mephala's set has a pretty cool ability and I like the way it looks. But it's just not nearly as good as bloodspawn for tanking

Dracane · July 2015

Colosso-monstro wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

They improved Nerienth´s, cant be so hard to make the other Monster Sets viable ^^

Nerien Eth hits pretty hard now, I tested it. This is a great option to Valkyn now. As not everyone uses DoTs. This basially is the non-DK Valkyn

So basically all monsters sets are great now expect for the Daedroth and this Fungal Grotto thing

Which sucks because mephala's set has a pretty cool ability and I like the way it looks. But it's just not nearly as good as bloodspawn for tanking

Ah yes, Mephala's set. Thanks for helping my memory

The effect looks very cool indeed, especially for heavy attack builds. Haven't tested this yet.
In the meantime, I did further testing witht he Daedroth.

The longer I use it, the less I want to use it

It basically never procs, if it procs, it doesn't inflict any damage. It's just too slow, bugged and has a short life.
I hope, this set gets some tweaking soon. I really want to use it, but right now.... it's not worth it.

Dracane · July 2015

LOOK, how bravely big Dino is fighting.
Big Dino procs (after 10 minutes of light attack spamming) the first thing Big Dino does, is launching a fire attack right into nowhere. Seems like the Dino is blind and cannot see the enemies.

The next thing the Dino attempts to do, is trying to hit an enemy. The first hit totally misses, as his range is too short and the enemy took 1 step. His second hit (and the only in his short 15 seconds life) hits the target for WOOOOW 2,2k ?Dinooo, you are so strong, but can't you do more ? Wait no.... Dino's attacks can't crit.

You might ask, why I don't tell him to attacka target ? I can't

unlike the Sorcerers pets, you cannot command the Dino.

And in the last seconds of his short life, Dino FINALLY is next to an enemy and he is just about to launch is fire breath. But.... then gets knocked back by wrecking blow and in mid air, his short Dino life ends.

REST IN PEACE DINO. Thanks for dealing 2k damage in 15 seconds. #KillerDPS

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Contraptions · July 2015

I really hope they take a look at some of our suggestions and improve this set further. It has the potential to be really fun to use, if done right.

Joy_Division · July 2015

I care about the set because it is the coolest thematically.

I agree it isn't viable. Biggest problems associated with the set:

Procs too low. I am of the opinion a user should NEVER forget they are wearing a monster set. Valkyn has a chance to proc without doing anything. Engine proc on any skill you use. Not a coincidence these are two of the most popular sets. Even if Zos tripled the proc rate - 15% on basic attack - it would still be a novelty item.
Moves too slow / takes to long to attack.
Lack of crit as per the OP
Very short "active" time. Low proc rate + slow speed + short duration = wondering what it actually did.

Oh_Skrivva · July 2015

Even though the maw set isn't the best in dps. It's still my favorite boss set cause I just love the Daedroth. Sadly, I don't use it due to it not being viable. Another way they can make it worth it is to allow you to proc another one while one is active. I don't know why no one likes the mephala set. I currently use that set on my magic sorcerer and can consistently get 18-21k dps with it. Highest I've gotten with my sorcerer is 24k dps. Of course we all know if you use overload for a whole boss fight you can easily hit 30+k dps. But hey if they decide to buff mephala more I'll be more than happy.

hammayolettuce · July 2015

Proc rate too low
Dmg too low
moves too slow
Needs way more health

Dracane · July 2015

Thanks guys for agreeing to the main problems.

It all starts with the proc rate being way too low. You might assume, that light attack weaving makes it proc often. But it doesn't. Sometimes, it doesn't proc for half an hour of light attacking (seriously, not exaggerating)

And it's most important attack, the fire breath always misses, because it is a tiny area and most monsters just take one step and are out of it. Which costs valueable seconds. I think, they should double the duration of the Daedroth, or SIGNIFICANTLY increase the proc chance (so we can forgive him, if he messes up one proc, because the next proc follows in time) and definately increase the damage and movement speed.

Soleya · July 2015

I agree with the above.

I also find it odd that an npc charge attack can knock the daedroth down. Yet when I fight one, none of my knockdowns will work on them as they are boss monsters. Last night I had a Kwarma knock mine down. The mass difference of of the two doesn't even make sense.

Allowing the Daedroth to turn or move when breathing fire would alleviate the enemies just staking a step to get out of it.

Dracane · July 2015

Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »

I agree with the above.

I also find it odd that an npc charge attack can knock the daedroth down. Yet when I fight one, none of my knockdowns will work on them as they are boss monsters. Last night I had a Kwarma knock mine down. The mass difference of of the two doesn't even make sense.

Allowing the Daedroth to turn or move when breathing fire would alleviate the enemies just staking a step to get out of it.

That's a huge problem with all pets in the game. Most annoyingly the Sorcerer Storm Atronach. People are complaining about it being CCable since over 1 year, while no other storm Atronach in the game is CCable. That's why nobody wants to use this Ultimate. It can't move and is CCable.

Same problem with the Daedroth. No Daedroth in the game is CCable

would it break things, if the 2 previously named would be immune to cc ? I don't think it would.
But the CC problem is still the tiniest problem of the Daedroth as you can see