A magicka DK is more effective than a stamina DK since day 1, and 2.1 is making things even worse.

My guildmates prefer to play the templar as a healer archetype and therefore have a magicka build.

Because nothing in 2.1 helps stam builds...

Nothing at all...

So we have players that aren't willing to adapt their play style as changes are made to a game? Sounds like they should stick to chess or checkers where it's the same stuff all the time. Evolve or perish.

Just because you and your friends didn't manage to create a decent stamina build, it doesn't mean they don't exist. There were some quiet strong builds for dks with sword'n'board + greatsword and some good Templars using greatsword + bow.

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

I had a discussion with some of my former guildmates who left the game due to the imbalance between stamina builds and magicka builds. They always have played a melee DPS or tank archetype in MMOs because that's their playstyle. They like to use 2 handed weapons, dual wields or shields, and the sound of their melee weapons when they assault their ennemies. But they have left ESO a long time ago because playing such an archetype requires having a stamina build and stamina builds are pretty much not viable in PVP, until recently when the NB have become the only viable melee stamina class in the game.

So they read these patch notes, and told me they won't come back. There is nothing in this update to make their playstyles viable, and this is something that never got fixed since the game was released.

I myself consider cancelling my sub and quitting ESO, because I'm sick of this situation. I don't want to be forced to change my playstyle because I'm not a NB; I don't want to be forced to change my playstyle because the melee dps builds with 2H, dual wield, or shield weapons are not viable; I don't want to change my playstyle and use a bow or a staff to be competitive in Cyrodiil.

What game are you playing? 2H/DW/SwordandBoard are ALL viable in PvP.
l2p issue right here.

Zsymon wrote: »

Stamina builds, despite nerfs to dodge and block, with Vigor being moved down, are more than viable. I think your "friends" have been doing a little too much theory crafting and not enough actual playing.

i guess you meant to say they didnt do any theorycrafting and playing and instead QQed on forum and /quit

Teargrants wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

@Teargrants is this a joke?
A troll maybe?

You tell me.

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

I had a discussion with some of my former guildmates who left the game due to the imbalance between stamina builds and magicka builds. They always have played a melee DPS or tank archetype in MMOs because that's their playstyle. They like to use 2 handed weapons, dual wields or shields, and the sound of their melee weapons when they assault their ennemies. But they have left ESO a long time ago because playing such an archetype requires having a stamina build and stamina builds are pretty much not viable in PVP, until recently when the NB have become the only viable melee stamina class in the game.

So they read these patch notes, and told me they won't come back. There is nothing in this update to make their playstyles viable, and this is something that never got fixed since the game was released.

I myself consider cancelling my sub and quitting ESO, because I'm sick of this situation. I don't want to be forced to change my playstyle because I'm not a NB; I don't want to be forced to change my playstyle because the melee dps builds with 2H, dual wield, or shield weapons are not viable; I don't want to change my playstyle and use a bow or a staff to be competitive in Cyrodiil.

I've waited for more than 15 months for a balanced game, where stamina builds and magicka builds would be equally competitive, where every one could play the archetype they like without gimping themselves. My former guildmates have left ESO because the game failed in that domain, and I think they were right: this will never get fixed.

Stam builds achieve the highest dps for one, and claiming only NB works for stam build is just so blatantly untrue I don't see what more discussion is needed on that point. NB synergizes best for stam, just as sorc synergizes best for mag.

But no, go ahead and tell me how the plague of rolly polly stam builds that in 1.6 were not in any way viable for pvp.

One more troll. Rolly stam builds were the exact stamina version of stack shielding builds. Sorcs will continue to stack their shields and no one cares in the combat team. Stamina players have their stamina pool so quickly depleted despite their stamina regen build, that it's useless to even figtht against any magicka build. Just /sit and wait to be killed.

Stamina builds are viable, they just don't have as much utility or as much variation as magicka builds. My main is a stam NB, my second main is a Stam Templar, both work well for me, and with some of the new things coming, I forsee some of them working better.

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

I had a discussion with some of my former guildmates who left the game due to the imbalance between stamina builds and magicka builds. They always have played a melee DPS or tank archetype in MMOs because that's their playstyle. They like to use 2 handed weapons, dual wields or shields, and the sound of their melee weapons when they assault their ennemies. But they have left ESO a long time ago because playing such an archetype requires having a stamina build and stamina builds are pretty much not viable in PVP, until recently when the NB have become the only viable melee stamina class in the game.

So they read these patch notes, and told me they won't come back. There is nothing in this update to make their playstyles viable, and this is something that never got fixed since the game was released.

I myself consider cancelling my sub and quitting ESO, because I'm sick of this situation. I don't want to be forced to change my playstyle because I'm not a NB; I don't want to be forced to change my playstyle because the melee dps builds with 2H, dual wield, or shield weapons are not viable; I don't want to change my playstyle and use a bow or a staff to be competitive in Cyrodiil.

What game are you playing? 2H/DW/SwordandBoard are ALL viable in PvP.
l2p issue right here.

Stop saying to people who have played the MMO for more than 12 years that they should L2P. When you play the same class, but with two different builds, one magicka, and one stamina, for instance on the PTS to compare their effectiveness, then you know.

Unless your class was sorcerer, magicka and stamina seem quite balanced.

Magicka users got the shaft more so than anyone else in this patch, and yet I still don't see Magicka users like myself complaining. The game is pretty well-balanced on all fronts now, and the change to Bolt Escape has been needed for a long time now (and this is coming from someone that uses it on a regular basis).

Games like this are ALWAYS changing, though. You should 'never' go into them expecting that the same build you used from the start will be as viable as it was from launch almost two years down the road. There can always be drastic updates to the combat mechanics of any online RPG. Period. An MMO is never the same after a major content update; it changes continually year-after-year to suit the majority of players' feedback (in most instances, not all), and if you aren't willing to adapt your build to those changes most other people can (which is much easier than you and your guildmates seem to be making it, in all honesty), then you will be left behind.

Combat had very little depth to it. A lot of the changes regarding both Stamina and Magicka consumption will make players strategize more and punish those who try to button-mash their way to victory.

ESO is a game that also has barely any end-game gear grind as well compared to any other MMOs or online RPGs on the market. Skills are all easy to rank up, and there is just so much room for 'multiple' builds on each toon you have in this game as a result to having a TON of SP in this game as well, regardless of whether or not you've invested points into Crafting on a toon.

Case in point, if they want to rage-quit a game over their particular build not overshadowing all others, then it is clear to me that their desires are nothing but selfish: they will never be happy until they can see their very particular herp-derp build wipe the floor. But what they don't realize is two things: 1) they are likely not optimized for PvP, and 2) they need to learn to play better, which can only come from experience.

Korozenn wrote: »

Magicka users got the shaft more so than anyone else in this patch, and yet I still don't see Magicka users like myself complaining. The game is pretty well-balanced on all fronts now, and the change to Bolt Escape has been needed for a long time now (and this is coming from someone that uses it on a regular basis).

Games like this are ALWAYS changing, though. You should 'never' go into them expecting that the same build you used from the start will be as viable as it was from launch almost two years down the road. There can always be drastic updates to the combat mechanics of any online RPG. Period. An MMO is never the same after a major content update; it changes continually year-after-year to suit the majority of players' feedback (in most instances, not all), and if you aren't willing to adapt your build to those changes most other people can (which is much easier than you and your guildmates seem to be making it, in all honesty), then you will be left behind.

Combat had very little depth to it. A lot of the changes regarding both Stamina and Magicka consumption will make players strategize more and punish those who try to button-mash their way to victory.

ESO is a game that also has barely any end-game gear grind as well compared to any other MMOs or online RPGs on the market. Skills are all easy to rank up, and there is just so much room for 'multiple' builds on each toon you have in this game as a result to having a TON of SP in this game as well, regardless of whether or not you've invested points into Crafting on a toon.

Case in point, if they want to rage-quit a game over their particular build not overshadowing all others, then it is clear to me that their desires are nothing but selfish: they will never be happy until they can see their very particular herp-derp build wipe the floor. But what they don't realize is two things: 1) they are likely not optimized for PvP, and 2) they need to learn to play better, which can only come from experience.

I agree that games like MMOs are always changing. And I would like it to change in a way, for example, where 75% of the people playing the game would have a stamina build in PVP. That's the change I would like to see, just for an hour or two.

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

I had a discussion with some of my former guildmates who left the game due to the imbalance between stamina builds and magicka builds. They always have played a melee DPS or tank archetype in MMOs because that's their playstyle. They like to use 2 handed weapons, dual wields or shields, and the sound of their melee weapons when they assault their ennemies. But they have left ESO a long time ago because playing such an archetype requires having a stamina build and stamina builds are pretty much not viable in PVP, until recently when the NB have become the only viable melee stamina class in the game.

So they read these patch notes, and told me they won't come back. There is nothing in this update to make their playstyles viable, and this is something that never got fixed since the game was released.

I myself consider cancelling my sub and quitting ESO, because I'm sick of this situation. I don't want to be forced to change my playstyle because I'm not a NB; I don't want to be forced to change my playstyle because the melee dps builds with 2H, dual wield, or shield weapons are not viable; I don't want to change my playstyle and use a bow or a staff to be competitive in Cyrodiil.

What game are you playing? 2H/DW/SwordandBoard are ALL viable in PvP.
l2p issue right here.

Stop saying to people who have played the MMO for more than 12 years that they should L2P. When you play the same class, but with two different builds, one magicka, and one stamina, for instance on the PTS to compare their effectiveness, then you know.

I dunno about you, but I am killing stuff with my Stam Templar or Stamina NB with a 2H/DW setup

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

I agree that games like MMOs are always changing. And I would like it to change in a way, for example, where 75% of the people playing the game would have a stamina build in PVP. That's the change I would like to see, just for an hour or two.

OK, now you're just trolling, saying flat out that you want 'change' so imbalanced that 75% of ppl would switch to stam builds.

Secondly, I dunno what game you've been playing but that's pretty much been the state of Cyrodiil since 1.6, unless you've been living in a cave. Stam builds surpass magicka for both aoe & single target dps. The only real significant things magicka builds bring to the table for groups that stam doesn't (aside from templar healers) are prox det, siege shield, purge, fear and encase.

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

I agree that games like MMOs are always changing. And I would like it to change in a way, for example, where 75% of the people playing the game would have a stamina build in PVP. That's the change I would like to see, just for an hour or two.

OK, now you're just trolling, saying flat out that you want 'change' so imbalanced that 75% of ppl would switch to stam builds.

Secondly, I dunno what game you've been playing but that's pretty much been the state of Cyrodiil since 1.6, unless you've been living in a cave. Stam builds surpass magicka for both aoe & single target dps. The only real significant things magicka builds bring to the table for groups that stam doesn't (aside from templar healers) are prox det, siege shield, purge, fear and encase.

No one cares that stamina skills surpass magicka skills for both aoe and single target dps. No one cares, because once you're dead or once you're stamina pool is depleted, you don't deal damage anymore. Magicka builds are by far superior to stamina builds, because they are more balanced, offering both a decent DPS and an amazing sustainability.

in addition to that, this release will nerf the burst DPS metagame. Therefore, builds with a better sustainability will be more effective than builds with a burst DPS. This translates into magicka builds being even more powerful than stamina builds.

apart from the fact magicka builds have like 10k stamina which = 2-3 cc's and were dead.

Oh and i care that certain builds have more single dps and aoe dps, thats kind of important.