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Instant Research Option
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Athas24✭✭✭✭I think that they should impliment a similar concept for posting to how research is done in the game. Oh, you've posted 8 times? Your next post will show up in another 27 days after creating it and pushing submit. That way people will really have EARNED the ability to Post. *SMH*
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danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »[Callous2208 wrote: »Please go away. Play archeage, or some other crapfest that cares more about your wallet than time invested or skill. These are the people that jump from game to game every month anyways, looking for the next great title to drop cash on and troll the peasants. You are a plague on gaming. A cancer that has spread for far too long.
There is no time invested in the game with research timers. You can click the buttons, then exit the game and not play for 30 days, even go off and play a different game if you like. How is that investing time in the game?
Research timers are a poor excuse for game-play.
If it were up to me traits would drop on only blue or higher gear, and they would lower the timers to 10 hours flat rate for all traits. There are around 300 traits/gear combos in all, so at 3 per 10 hours it would take around 40 days to max out your trait research if you were on the ball. Crafters could still craft traits on green/white gear and sell them.
I think that is a more reasonable amount of time without being too short, and it encourages people to stay active in the game rather than leave the game for weeks at a time.
then there would be no point bothering with crafting at all 40 days is nothing in mmo terms. top crafted gear would be next to unsellable as it would take about 5 days and you could do a full 6 trait armour set.
Those crafted set requirements are lame also. Why do some take 2 and others take 8-9? When you look at the sets it sure seems like the lower level ones are more popular by far then the higher level ones, with the exception of Nirn.
You should only be able to unlock bonuses based on the number of traits researched for that type of armour/weapon. So if you only have 3 traits researched for a medium chest piece, you only get the first 3 bonuses of that Hunding Rage set.
erm if you only have 3 traits you cant craft hundings at all.
Yes, it would be a more dynamic crafting system. If you only know 3 medium chest piece traits then you can only craft a medium chest piece with 3 bonuses on it. If the piece does not have the bonus on it then it does not contribute to higher level bonus.
So if you had 5 pieces of Hunding's , 2 that had 5 piece bonuses, and 3 that had 3 piece bonuses you would only receive the 3 piece bonus. If the bonus is not listed on the piece, it does not contribute to the bonus.
In this way , in order to receive the full 5 piece bonus you need to be able to craft (or have crafted for you) 5 pieces with the 5 piece bonus on it.
I think that works out? More complicated, but it makes more sense than arbitrary trait requirements for specific sets, that are no better than other sets.
Better and worse is subject to person judging it. Just because you think one set is worse than other doesent mean you are right. Because for other person it can be completely opposite.
So the whole idea of this "make only x bonuses where x is number of traits researched" is based on false assumption. And it sucks (for other reasons too).
Hundings rage? A popular DPS set? Why you brought up this set only? Its like you want it really bad but you cant be bothered:
a) research it on your own
b) pay someone fair money for time he invested into researching it
Another case "how i should present my idea to people so they wont think im just another person who want something for free and instantly"
Dude, I've been here since beta. I got all the traits researched except Nirn.
To quote you, your whole post is "based on a false assumption", and it sucks. lol.
And juts think about the first part of your post....you are agreeing with me. Trait limits are currently arbitrary since sets are comparable incomparables.1 -
RavenSkylord✭✭✭Azurephoenix999 wrote: »RavenSkylord wrote: »Azurephoenix999 wrote: »Azurephoenix999 wrote: »Azurephoenix999 wrote: »RavenSkylord wrote: »As is there is little incentive to focus on crafting, that someone who spends hundreds of hours working on their craft will only make the same level item as someone that does it only in passing is wrong. I would like to see skill lines that improve the quality, even if only in CP. There are players that their primary focus is in this aspect of the game, and should be rewarded for their investment, as is researched traits is all we have to separate ourselves from the pack. So no, no reduction in trait times and give us more love, give us real skill trees, give us master crafter quests that improve our wares
Even with all time reduction passives and subscription, it'd still take over a year to research everything, and most of that year will be spent on the last two traits.
How is this NOT a problem?
because its not want to be a master craftsman work for it. there is a thread on the forums of people who have already done it and now you want to devalue their achievement because you and big boi cant be bothered.
It's got nothing to do with not being bothered. I'll do it if that's how long it takes, it's not going to stop me complaining about it though.
I will repeat that the timer increasing each time you learn a trait makes no sense whatsoever.
As already explained its a game mechanic interned to make the items by those players who can make them rare increasing their value. what doesn't make sense its basic supply and demand in this case they are artificially limiting the demand to increase the value of 9 trait items.
You will be glad when your one of the few people who can make this stuff and Your making millions on the new 9 trait IC sets.
Except I won't be able to make any of those sets until approx. 3 new traits have been introduced, meaning I have to spend another year and a half researching them.
I get that people on PC have already done this, but us on consoles have only just started.
Claiming it will take over a year is a stretch, I am on console and will be able to make a 9 piece set within 2 to 3 months thats 5 items with 9 traits researched. Last perk in research time limits the maximum time for any trait to 30 days, along with 3 researchable traits at a time is more then enough to accomplish this
To learn all traits for every item would take over a year.
you can learn 3 traits at a time.
Clothier has 14 items in it.
14/3 = 5 (rounded up because you can't learn part of a trait)
5x1 month = 5 months to learn the final trait in each item.
Considering that the 8th trait takes almost as long as the 9th, lets add another 5 months.
5+5=10. 7th trait takes half that time, so 2.5 months.
12.5 months for the last three traits on all items in clothier.
Smithing would take the same amount of time, but can be done alongside clothier, so they'd both be finished over a year after launch.
How did you manage to get as far as you have so soon? Are you a PC transfer?
No, not a transfer but am eso sub, so research times improbed. To get all pieces in all crafts will take a bit longer but to make a set you only need 5 pieces, last research trait limits research times to 30 days, and am currently sitting at 8 traits on 2 items and 7 on the other three with 8th item waiting to research on those, may be opptimistic about getting the nirn drops but have a few friends that are working together to pool nirn drops, once aquired research on an alt for quick trait to pass around and then put in for final push. Takes a lot of work and a lot of inventory space, but can be done0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How about if every piece you deconstruct that has a particular trait reduces your research time by 1%?
The system would keep track of the number of traited items for each trait/item you have deconstructed until you finish research of that trait/item. It wouldn't make a huge difference for the first few traits, but by the time you get to 6+, you could be starting the research with a 20% reduction, for example.
That wouldn't make it too easy, and it would allow you to be proactive if you wanted to.
As for those asking about why the time increase: It's a time gateway. If your first research was 30 days, not many people would take up crafting.The Moot Councillor1 -
Rinmaethodain✭✭✭✭✭
✭How about if every piece you deconstruct that has a particular trait reduces your research time by 1%?
The system would keep track of the number of traited items for each trait/item you have deconstructed until you finish research of that trait/item. It wouldn't make a huge difference for the first few traits, but by the time you get to 6+, you could be starting the research with a 20% reduction, for example.
That wouldn't make it too easy, and it would allow you to be proactive if you wanted to.
As for those asking about why the time increase: It's a time gateway. If your first research was 30 days, not many people would take up crafting.
1.Buy nirns, research nirn items first
2. WTB 100x any trait item (excluding nirn) for 40k per stack (or friend will craft it just for mats)
3. Decon 100 items for 100% trait reduction
4. ???
5. profit and all traits researchedEdited by Rinmaethodain on July 23, 2015 6:30PM0 -
Ourorboros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As one of the first in game to have legitimately learned all traits on one character, which took just over a year, I gotta weigh in on this thread. Just the fact that it is 6 pages and growing from a post this morning indicates how polarizing this topic is. I am flat out against ANY crown store option to shorten research times. However, I am not against finding creative ways in the game to reduce the timers. I put the time in because I wanted to get all the traits researched, and there was NO OTHER OPTION but to wait. Other than acquiring all the nirnhone items, there is NOTHING hard about researching traits. Anyone with a watch and calendar can do it. Crafting in this game is pretty boring. Adding challenges or quests is bound to make crafting more fun. While part of me doesn't want to see change to research times because of the time I put in, we have already seen this kind of change in the game without disastrous effect. Everyone whinged so hard about enchanting that it's requirements were reduced. Those, like me, who had already maxed enchanting were not pleased by this. But the new enchanting model hasn't hurt the game...or stopped people complaining about how hard it is (still). I could really understand resistance to changing research times if the 8/9 trait sets were actually useful to the game, but the truth is those sets are a running joke. If some new player can get to 9 traits in 6 months, it will not diminish my sense of accomplishment that I did it first under a different set of rules. The focus should not be on what was required in the past, but on how to improve the game going forward.PC/NA/DCBreton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
TANSTAAFL--->There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....Robert Heinlein
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea....Heinlein
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die. "Blade Runner"
ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)1 -
Azurephoenix999✭✭✭✭✭Ourorboros wrote: »As one of the first in game to have legitimately learned all traits on one character, which took just over a year, I gotta weigh in on this thread. Just the fact that it is 6 pages and growing from a post this morning indicates how polarizing this topic is. I am flat out against ANY crown store option to shorten research times. However, I am not against finding creative ways in the game to reduce the timers. I put the time in because I wanted to get all the traits researched, and there was NO OTHER OPTION but to wait. Other than acquiring all the nirnhone items, there is NOTHING hard about researching traits. Anyone with a watch and calendar can do it. Crafting in this game is pretty boring. Adding challenges or quests is bound to make crafting more fun. While part of me doesn't want to see change to research times because of the time I put in, we have already seen this kind of change in the game without disastrous effect. Everyone whinged so hard about enchanting that it's requirements were reduced. Those, like me, who had already maxed enchanting were not pleased by this. But the new enchanting model hasn't hurt the game...or stopped people complaining about how hard it is (still). I could really understand resistance to changing research times if the 8/9 trait sets were actually useful to the game, but the truth is those sets are a running joke. If some new player can get to 9 traits in 6 months, it will not diminish my sense of accomplishment that I did it first under a different set of rules. The focus should not be on what was required in the past, but on how to improve the game going forward.
Is it possible for me to agree to this post more than once?Guildmaster of Spectral Liberty - Xbox One - European Megaserver0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This seems a good place to ask. In skyrim the only way to get daedric armor with two enchantments was to max enchantment and armor. I keep seeing that the armor you can create is weaker than armor can drop.
This is bother some to meif true. Why even craft if a drop is better? I always do armor crafting, as i find it quite entertaining, but if its just a dead end ill stop wasting so much inventory space on crafting supplies.0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Problem is as console players we need to wrap our heads around the idea this is not your normal
console game that you complete in 20 to 40 hours.
As an MMO it has things designed to take weeks, months and even years to keep you playing it.
Even though subs are voluntary and it is b2p ZOS still wants you to stick around a long time and sell things on the crown store and dlc.
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RavenSkylord✭✭✭Ourorboros wrote: »As one of the first in game to have legitimately learned all traits on one character, which took just over a year, I gotta weigh in on this thread. Just the fact that it is 6 pages and growing from a post this morning indicates how polarizing this topic is. I am flat out against ANY crown store option to shorten research times. However, I am not against finding creative ways in the game to reduce the timers. I put the time in because I wanted to get all the traits researched, and there was NO OTHER OPTION but to wait. Other than acquiring all the nirnhone items, there is NOTHING hard about researching traits. Anyone with a watch and calendar can do it. Crafting in this game is pretty boring. Adding challenges or quests is bound to make crafting more fun. While part of me doesn't want to see change to research times because of the time I put in, we have already seen this kind of change in the game without disastrous effect. Everyone whinged so hard about enchanting that it's requirements were reduced. Those, like me, who had already maxed enchanting were not pleased by this. But the new enchanting model hasn't hurt the game...or stopped people complaining about how hard it is (still). I could really understand resistance to changing research times if the 8/9 trait sets were actually useful to the game, but the truth is those sets are a running joke. If some new player can get to 9 traits in 6 months, it will not diminish my sense of accomplishment that I did it first under a different set of rules. The focus should not be on what was required in the past, but on how to improve the game going forward.
I would love to be able to quests for crafting, was pretty disappointed with the writs and just the overall "anyone can craft this" value to the armor. I am sure there are quite a few crafting enthusiasts that would like to be able to rise above the crowd0 -
talon_vib14_ESO✭✭✭Save crafting for end game. Research the more desirable traits on the specific items you intend to use first so they take less time. Then you are left with pointless traits taking 30 days rather than the traits you really want.0 -
talon_vib14_ESO✭✭✭My bad didn't take crafting sets into consideration when opening my big mouth.0
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Milktray✭✭✭Azurephoenix999 wrote: »
What about a pay-to-instant timer besides for the nirncrux trait? Or pay to reduce time but not make it instant?
why don't you just ask for 'Pay to be Emporer, max lvl, skills, best items in game etc' .. cos actually playing a gameZoS please understand everyone thinks and pronounces things differently, so please add to your 'rules' that things get removed if the Mod doesn't actually quite understand phrasing0 -
Pangnirtung✭✭✭✭✭No.
And to be honest, quite a few of your suggestions BigBoi are all about how to speed build/complete everything.
Take a breather, slow down and enjoy the game
It seems there are always those that need to grind to the top, get the best gear, etc. instantly.
There was a reason that research was supposed to take time. It was meant to value the craft. Where's the value in anything if it is available immediately, ie, lets all be VR16 with 900 champion points.
Immediate gratification and a sense of entitlement.2 -
RazzPitazz✭✭✭✭I dare you to make a poll.PC NA
VR1 - Jar'eed - Khajiit Dragon Knight - AD
VR1 - Broad Tail - Argonian Templar - EP
All-Star Crafter Guild0 -
Milktray✭✭✭RazzPitazz wrote: »I dare you to make a poll.
Thing with poll's is, still inacurrate as only a small % of a games pb actually read the forums and then it's down to who shouts loudestZoS please understand everyone thinks and pronounces things differently, so please add to your 'rules' that things get removed if the Mod doesn't actually quite understand phrasing0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RazzPitazz wrote: »I dare you to make a poll.
Polls are all about the wording. For example:
"Research timers are a fun and engaging way to level crafting, and we need even more timers in the game to make it even more fun and engaging."
-Agree
-Disagree
Most would disagree I think.
But watch this:
"Research timers represent an investment in crafting, and serve to create a profession that has value and contributes to the game economy."
You can use wording to get the poll results you want.1 -
sagitter✭✭✭✭✭NO! You want all soon and ready , but once u get it i bet you stop to play, go on another game and whine for something else, and repeat the loop.2 -
BigBoi314✭✭Polls here don't generate enough data. It would if everyone that played actually looked at the forums, but right now pretty sure that the majority of the forum users are those on the PC that have already researched all the traits without realizing that the timer system for it was broken or have figured out a way to mod their character data.0 -
Akavir_Sentinel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Polls here don't generate enough data. It would if everyone that played actually looked at the forums, but right now pretty sure that the majority of the forum users are those on the PC that have already researched all the traits without realizing that the timer system for it was broken or have figured out a way to mod their character data.
What are you talking about? The research timer for the traits is not broken, and there is no way to modify character data as all of those files are stored server-side.1 -
Moonscythe✭✭✭✭✭I could live with the times if I didn't have to repeat for every blessed piece of equipment I can craft not to mention finding something with the required trait to research. I bought a couple of pieces early so I could get trait master which only requires that I have learned every (common) trait at least once. But, I suspect my patience will wear thin as I find more need for more traits. It would be nice if they were at least on account not character though, yeah, I know the character is the one doing the learning.Scura di Notte - Altmer Nightblade (gear)
Lalin del Sombra - Bosmer Sorcerer (alchemy/enchanting)
Angevin Sarkany - Bosmer Dragonknight
Alkemene Velothi - Dunmer Warden (Morrowind)
Sanna yos'Phalen - Altmer Sorcerer (provisioning)
Cosima di Mattina -Altmer Sorcerer
Naria Andrano - Dunmer Templar
Luca della Serata - Redguard Templar0 -
OzJohnD✭✭✭✭ooh did I hear someone advocating pay to play ?
Everyone knows the phenomenon of trying to hold your breath underwater - how at first it's alright and you can handle it, and then as it gets closer and closer to the time when you must breathe, how urgent the need becomes, the lust and the hunger to breathe. And then the panic sets in when you begin to think that you won't be able to breathe - and finally, when you take in air and the anxiety subsides...that's what it's like to be a vampire and need blood.
Francis Ford Coppola - BS Dracula: The Film and the Legend1 -
snackrat✭✭✭Maybe if they had something that reduced it by a flat time, like one day - since it would means that higher traits still take time.
Or a percentage - if it knocks 50%, then even if it stacks, you'll still be waiting.
2 months? 1 month. Again, its 2 week. Again, one week. That's three instances on ONE timer and there's STILL a week left.
2 weeks? 1 week. Then ~4 days. Then ~2 days. Even on short timers, its an investment.0 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Polls here don't generate enough data. It would if everyone that played actually looked at the forums, but right now pretty sure that the majority of the forum users are those on the PC that have already researched all the traits without realizing that the timer system for it was broken or have figured out a way to mod their character data.
Wait... what?
Did you seriously just suggest that the people who aren't agreeing with you are doing so either because they are ignorant (of the timer mechanic being "broken") or actually cheating? (by modifying character data)
...
Ok, when I stop laughing I will get back to providing a fuller response to this... it may take some time.1 -
RazzPitazz✭✭✭✭Polls here don't generate enough data. It would if everyone that played actually looked at the forums, but right now pretty sure that the majority of the forum users are those on the PC that have already researched all the traits without realizing that the timer system for it was broken or have figured out a way to mod their character data.
Wait... what?
Did you seriously just suggest that the people who aren't agreeing with you are doing so either because they are ignorant (of the timer mechanic being "broken") or actually cheating? (by modifying character data)
...
Ok, when I stop laughing I will get back to providing a fuller response to this... it may take some time.
I think what @BigBoi314 is saying is that most likely the majority on these forums are PC players that have been around for a while, have most likely researchers all the traits by now, and as such would have a biased opinion. Which is fair.
I am just now half way through my trait research as I started late, but I feel that allowing people to outright purchase these traits for hard cash would hurt the in game economy. Riding lessons only hurt the time sink itself, actual players use their crafting expertise for monetary gain (if they so choose), so the cash pricing for traits researched would be a direct hit.
Also, I hate games like clash of clans that "boost" your building time for cash. They are games designed for short term money grabs on your phone or tablet.
The idea for research boost isn't P2W at all, but will hurt the the top and bottom line of the in game economy to some extent.PC NA
VR1 - Jar'eed - Khajiit Dragon Knight - AD
VR1 - Broad Tail - Argonian Templar - EP
All-Star Crafter Guild0 -
UrQuan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yes. Yes he did. It's easily the most ridiculous thing I've read on the forums in a looooong time. And that's saying something!Polls here don't generate enough data. It would if everyone that played actually looked at the forums, but right now pretty sure that the majority of the forum users are those on the PC that have already researched all the traits without realizing that the timer system for it was broken or have figured out a way to mod their character data.
Wait... what?
Did you seriously just suggest that the people who aren't agreeing with you are doing so either because they are ignorant (of the timer mechanic being "broken") or actually cheating? (by modifying character data)
...
Ok, when I stop laughing I will get back to providing a fuller response to this... it may take some time.
Someone stole my sweetrollCaius Drusus Imperial DK (DC)
Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC)
Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP)
Falidir Altmer Sorcr (AD)
J'zharka Khajiit NB (AD)Isabeau Runeseer Breton Sorc (DC)
Fevassa Dunmer DK (EP)
Manut Redguard Temp (AD)
Tylera the Summoner Altmer Sorc (EP)
Svari Snake-Blood Nord DK (AD)Ashlyn D'Elyse Breton NB (EP)
Filindria Bosmer Temp (DC)
Vigbjorn the Wanderer Nord Warden (EP)
Hrokki Winterborn Breton Warden (DC)
Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp0 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Yes. Yes he did. It's easily the most ridiculous thing I've read on the forums in a looooong time. And that's saying something!Polls here don't generate enough data. It would if everyone that played actually looked at the forums, but right now pretty sure that the majority of the forum users are those on the PC that have already researched all the traits without realizing that the timer system for it was broken or have figured out a way to mod their character data.
Wait... what?
Did you seriously just suggest that the people who aren't agreeing with you are doing so either because they are ignorant (of the timer mechanic being "broken") or actually cheating? (by modifying character data)
...
Ok, when I stop laughing I will get back to providing a fuller response to this... it may take some time.
This just set me off laughing again. Stoppit!
I am supposed to be observing a uni exam for one of the courses I teach in just over and hour... not chuckling my way through the whole thing would probably be appreciated
.
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Azurulia✭✭✭The entitlement is strong in this thread.Criminal Scum:
50 Breton Templar Healer: Olivine Azshara | 42 Orc Dragonknight Tank: Olivine Claremont | 50 Kahjiit Safe Cracker: Cracks-The-Safes | 50 Kahjiit Serial Killer: Cereal-The-Killer <Current Bounty: 1,231,318 gold>
"Whoever said crime doesn't pay clearly hasn't met Azu." -@Sloris1 -
seratin✭✭✭I would like to see someway to be active in researching in order to speed it up. As it stands the best way to research is to log in, click a few buttons, log out, and then go watch a full tv series on netflix. Then again I'm half way though watching Doctor Who, so maybe the current system isn't that bad.0
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BigBoi314✭✭The way they have the researching now, they're gonna see a lot of those players on console complete everything else the game has to offer then stop playing for something else because they get bored with waiting the ridiculous amount of time the researching increases to, even with the skill line abilities that don't let research times go past 30 days. Seriously, whoever thought that it was a smart idea to make them go that high, and beyond, was definitely not thinking clearly.0