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Anti-PvPrs, Tel Var stones and the Imperial City
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pjwb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »ESO would be so much better placea without PVP.
No more nerf cry threads, no more "balances" breaking whole game for PVE players.
No more silly wars and now, with lootable TV stones ESO welcomes community of harassment and griefing.
And everyone smiles at the thought of losing 3 hours of their work of farming stones to a ganker who just logged in and camped sewer entrance.
ESO would fail w/o pvp.
Delusional. ESO is failing BECAUSE of PvP. All the endless nerfs and rebalances (thanks to PvP whiners) have nearly destroyed this game.
Yeah the pvp part went crappier with every patch, the pve part is still the same kill everything as fast as possible with max dps instantly crap as it was at craglorn launch -.-~ here since Beta
My Youtube Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCw3x5B-l0S093TAo10WafLA
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RustedValor✭✭✭
VR1 wont be able to get stones anyways, this is V16 content meant to be difficult for end game players. What is a Vet1 doing trying to farm stuff that only buys V16 gear?Moonscythe wrote: »Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Moonscythe wrote: »
Bigger fish…maybe but I don't see anyone who looks forward to ganking a player for his stuff as being a better player. If they were bent on testing themselves and their build against another player they wouldn't be focused on the loot. Thioe who are after loot pick on obviously weaker players. If i ever get really strong I might be tempted to look weak to take the smirk off thier face but I doubt it.
"Bigger fish... maybe but I don't see anyone who looks forward to ganking a boss for his loot as being a better player. If they were bent on testing themselves and their build against bosses they wouldn't be focused on the loot."
That's essentially what you're saying about PVP'ers playing PVP, when adapted to PVE.
I don't think I agree with that Attorney. This whole thread revolves around the threat of players being killed for their new fancy stones that can be used to acquire better gear. If only boss level players dropped boss level loot then I would agree with you but if some VR1 manages to acquire those magic stones and someone bigger and badder wants them and whacks him that isn't testing anything and they are lying to themselves if they claim it is. It's not a challenge.
Edited by RustedValor on July 18, 2015 10:44PM1 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭RustedValor wrote: »VR1 wont be able to get stones anyways, this is V16 content meant to be difficult for end game players. What is a Vet1 doing trying to farm stuff that only buys V16 gear?
Well, maybe it's an alt character with 500 (or more) Champion Point just farming gear for it's V16 main?
Edited by The Uninvited on July 18, 2015 11:29PMPandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »...
I'm not anti-PvP. I simply don't like it and don't PvP. Ever. I do not enjoy immersing myself in a 12-year-old's fantasy world where there aren't true consequences for killing and stealing. To those of you who feel this is an insult, I apologize. It isn't meant as one, but PvP in nearly every game I've played devolves to this state.
...
Bolded/italicized describes my issue with the Justice System at present not having a PvP portion.
Not expecting super cruel consequences for killing and stealing in a game, where the killing and stealing is not real.
However, the NPC guards are not sufficient to provide consequences within the context of the game. PvP in the Justice System would remedy this.
Yes, and this was an obvious issue with the design, after the pvp portion was delayed or seemingly removed. The guards are few and far between while posing little threat. The only one they can really get you with is the randomized oneshot through anything mechanic that starts proccing for them after around fifteen seconds in combat, but unless you stop to fight them on purpose that won't happen. Even then you can dodge roll to make the chance low. My best fights have reached nearly two minutes by purposefully engaging them for fun
, and I average almost a minute, often zero hp'ing them. WTB PVP justice 
!!
Your opening statement kind of stuck with me for a different reason.
If the PvP portion of the Justice System really has been cancelled, what do PvP players have to look forward to aside from Imperial City?
Of all the content previewed, those were the only mechanics presented associated with PvP.
With how long the update schedule seems to be stretching, Imperial City may be the only content update PvP players see for years.
And there are people trying to destroy it for them already.
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭nimander99 wrote: »I still say they should release a non pvp version of Cyrodiil for all the non pvp-ers. I enjoy pvp personally but to gate such an iconic Scrolls area as the entirety of Cyrodiil and Imperial City behind, what for the vast majority of the player base, is a deal breaker and just wont go.
I have a ton of friends in this game who have literally never stepped foot in Cyrodiil because it is pvp. And I think a simple solution is a non pvp campaign.
I think ZoS is going to be quite surprised when not a lot of I.C DLC is bought.
Hey Samadhi I really like your quotes in your signature
I think it will sell like hot cakes if the latency fixes pan out halfway even of what the indications seem to show the potential of. The MMORPG market is in a drought overall with little else on the horizon for PVP oriented or pve/pvp oriented players including myself. The sole contender that targets close to any of the three market slices ESO aims at isn't due until mid or late 2016 and provides a different promise for its experience. Orsinium will come along soon enough to freshen things up on the pve part of ESO's gameplay, and to be honest, judging by how well the City looks to be done towards the wants and fun of people who enjoy both pve and pvp, or just pvp, I'm optimistic about Orsinium on the pve end of things now.-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.0 -
Elijah_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭RustedValor wrote: »Elijah_Crow wrote: »RustedValor wrote: »Elijah_Crow wrote: »I'm really starting to dislike the entitlement attitude of those that are afraid to fight another player in a video game.
No one is forcing you to participate in this part of the game. There are a large portion of players who enjoy both PvE and PvP gameplay and for us, IC represents the best blending of both.
You might want to consider the long term health of the game relies upon appealing to many play styles. This update includes all dungeons scaling to VR16 and two new ones where we know for sure VR16 gear will be available in addition to crafted sets.
It's absolutely insane seeing calls to remove PvP from the game because it's a detriment.
They really need to add a further level of difficulty for PVE beyond veteran to scale to your champion point level. The fact that anyone can solo Vet DSA or Vet dungeons only proves the lack of challenge.
ANYONE CAN SOLO VET DSA OR VET DUNGEONS?!?
Lol, you are insane. I've seen 1 person who has solo'ed Non Vet DSA. There are probably more but it's less than 1/2 of 1% of the population. My group has just finished their first successful DSA and have yet to get to the second Fight on Vet DSA. These players are still learning after reaching VR14.
Why don't you link a video of you doing this?
The majority of the player base is no where capable of doing this and I don't think ZOS should be catering to the less than 1%.
I havent done this personally because I have a life and can't grind that many CP but, people have solo VDSA all the way. The fact that this is possible with enough CP just shows that there is room for another level of difficulty.
You haven't done this personally because no one can. I've seen 1 player solo the last boss. Worry about content for the 99 1/2 %. It's a hell of a lot more important that there be challenging content for these players than some CP grinder.0 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Elijah_Crow wrote: »RustedValor wrote: »Elijah_Crow wrote: »RustedValor wrote: »Elijah_Crow wrote: »I'm really starting to dislike the entitlement attitude of those that are afraid to fight another player in a video game.
No one is forcing you to participate in this part of the game. There are a large portion of players who enjoy both PvE and PvP gameplay and for us, IC represents the best blending of both.
You might want to consider the long term health of the game relies upon appealing to many play styles. This update includes all dungeons scaling to VR16 and two new ones where we know for sure VR16 gear will be available in addition to crafted sets.
It's absolutely insane seeing calls to remove PvP from the game because it's a detriment.
They really need to add a further level of difficulty for PVE beyond veteran to scale to your champion point level. The fact that anyone can solo Vet DSA or Vet dungeons only proves the lack of challenge.
ANYONE CAN SOLO VET DSA OR VET DUNGEONS?!?
Lol, you are insane. I've seen 1 person who has solo'ed Non Vet DSA. There are probably more but it's less than 1/2 of 1% of the population. My group has just finished their first successful DSA and have yet to get to the second Fight on Vet DSA. These players are still learning after reaching VR14.
Why don't you link a video of you doing this?
The majority of the player base is no where capable of doing this and I don't think ZOS should be catering to the less than 1%.
I havent done this personally because I have a life and can't grind that many CP but, people have solo VDSA all the way. The fact that this is possible with enough CP just shows that there is room for another level of difficulty.
You haven't done this personally because no one can. I've seen 1 player solo the last boss. Worry about content for the 99 1/2 %. It's a hell of a lot more important that there be challenging content for these players than some CP grinder.
Yeah, unfortunately for the argument here, there's no basis in reality for either of those thoughts. "People" aren't soloing through vDSA, let alone regularly(!!!! really??), and CP doesn't provide enough room for new difficulty yet. Also, "CP grinder"s will hopefully not be the only ones able to earn good CP progression soon enough.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »...
I'm not anti-PvP. I simply don't like it and don't PvP. Ever. I do not enjoy immersing myself in a 12-year-old's fantasy world where there aren't true consequences for killing and stealing. To those of you who feel this is an insult, I apologize. It isn't meant as one, but PvP in nearly every game I've played devolves to this state.
...
Bolded/italicized describes my issue with the Justice System at present not having a PvP portion.
Not expecting super cruel consequences for killing and stealing in a game, where the killing and stealing is not real.
However, the NPC guards are not sufficient to provide consequences within the context of the game. PvP in the Justice System would remedy this.
Yes, and this was an obvious issue with the design, after the pvp portion was delayed or seemingly removed. The guards are few and far between while posing little threat. The only one they can really get you with is the randomized oneshot through anything mechanic that starts proccing for them after around fifteen seconds in combat, but unless you stop to fight them on purpose that won't happen. Even then you can dodge roll to make the chance low. My best fights have reached nearly two minutes by purposefully engaging them for fun, and I average almost a minute, often zero hp'ing them. WTB PVP justice !!
Your opening statement kind of stuck with me for a different reason.
If the PvP portion of the Justice System really has been cancelled, what do PvP players have to look forward to aside from Imperial City?
Of all the content previewed, those were the only mechanics presented associated with PvP.
With how long the update schedule seems to be stretching, Imperial City may be the only content update PvP players see for years.
And there are people trying to destroy it for them already.
Quoted for emphasis. For a group of players that claims to be conflict averse and prefer fighting NPC's at their own pace, they sure don't shy away from fighting if everything isn't always for them exactly as they like it. -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
MrGhosty✭✭✭✭✭Oh please, give up the PvP whining. Whether you're trying to make a joke or not, even a half-decent PvPer can see how ridiculous this new DLC is if it's rolled out as-is.
I'm not anti-PvP. I simply don't like it and don't PvP. Ever. I do not enjoy immersing myself in a 12-year-old's fantasy world where there aren't true consequences for killing and stealing. To those of you who feel this is an insult, I apologize. It isn't meant as one, but PvP in nearly every game I've played devolves to this state.
The quickest way to send me to the door with the EXIT sign over it is to force PvE players in a solidly PvE game to PvP on some level, whether it's for a quest or, in this case, releasing content that is so skewed toward PvP and leaves PvE all but out of this new content.
From what I've read and heard so far, from players and ZoS, leaves PvE out almost entirely. It's also set up so that long-time players have a distinct and significant advantage over those who haven't played as long, with no way for newer players to catch up, whether they're PvE or PvPers.
I've played games where new content all but leaves PvPers in the dust, and if you tout your game as having PvP content and pull crap like that, you end up making a lot of players unhappy, angry, and looking for other entertainment. What the heck does ZoS going to think is going to happen by alienating the majority of their player base, which is PvE?
I'm actually still so surprised, disgusted, and confused as to why ZoS thinks this content as-is is a good idea that I just can't EVEN. Nope. I was really looking forward to playing with my husband today, after completing Coldharbor, making us both fairly new in VR levels. But now....I feel like, what's the point?
ESO is a game with AVA focus, so its not a PVE game at all, quite the contrary actually.
Since day one, ZOS released a lot of content that would be more typical for a raid or die game, than for the AVA genre. From this point, you as a PVE only player shouldn't complain as you were served content in a game, that originally had a different type of player in mind.
The justice system, which was supposed to be the first update to the AVA system, was stripped of its actual PVP part, mostly because of the crying by some players and while I understood a few concerns, most of them were pretty hilarious, yet made the Devs consider them.
Now the Imperial City is about to roll out, the first pvp update in 16 months! Don't you think that your claims are not just unjustified, but also a bit rude? Rude to the Developers, but also the gamers.
Don't you think its about time, that the people who were once promised another Age of Camelot finally get a few new toys to play with and that you should at least test it out first, before you complain?
The good thing about DLC´s always was, you only have to buy it if you like it. So as the Americans tend to say, either you love it or you leave it.
While you should certainly not leave ESO because of a single non PVE focused DLC, you should probably leave this DLC aside if it doesn't appeal you on the PTS.
Just wait for the next one which will surely have enough new raids or quests for you, where you will not fear any pvp skill checks to succeed.
Needless to say, even this so called "PVP DLC", will offer new pve content as Gina & Jess already mentioned.
The fears some people tend to have about games is beyond me. If not all goes their way, they start acting as the world will go down
Where did it say that the PvP aspect of the justice system got scrapped because PvEers complained? From everything I saw it seemed like they didn't really know how to implement it and they even said it's a touchy system and was tricky to navigate. Lately it seems to have been completely abandoned. If you have a source for why it is someone else's fault but the developers I would love to see it.
As for the IC, I don't plan to buy it as that's not my cup of tea but I am glad to see something put in for the hardcore PvPers. I don't agree with forced PvP or PvE. I didn't agree with it when they added those undaunted helms that could only be obtained via dungeons and I don't agree now that we need to setup PvE players as stone pinatas for dedicated gank squads.
"It is a time of strife and unrest. Armies of revenants and dark spirits manifest in every corner of Tamriel. Winters grow colder and crops fail. Mystics are plagued by nightmares and portents of doom."2 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If the PvP portion of the Justice System really has been cancelled, what do PvP players have to look forward to aside from Imperial City?
What?!?!?
I'm a PvEer and that's really depressingTenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oh please, give up the PvP whining. Whether you're trying to make a joke or not, even a half-decent PvPer can see how ridiculous this new DLC is if it's rolled out as-is.
I'm not anti-PvP. I simply don't like it and don't PvP. Ever. I do not enjoy immersing myself in a 12-year-old's fantasy world where there aren't true consequences for killing and stealing. To those of you who feel this is an insult, I apologize. It isn't meant as one, but PvP in nearly every game I've played devolves to this state.
The quickest way to send me to the door with the EXIT sign over it is to force PvE players in a solidly PvE game to PvP on some level, whether it's for a quest or, in this case, releasing content that is so skewed toward PvP and leaves PvE all but out of this new content.
From what I've read and heard so far, from players and ZoS, leaves PvE out almost entirely. It's also set up so that long-time players have a distinct and significant advantage over those who haven't played as long, with no way for newer players to catch up, whether they're PvE or PvPers.
I've played games where new content all but leaves PvPers in the dust, and if you tout your game as having PvP content and pull crap like that, you end up making a lot of players unhappy, angry, and looking for other entertainment. What the heck does ZoS going to think is going to happen by alienating the majority of their player base, which is PvE?
I'm actually still so surprised, disgusted, and confused as to why ZoS thinks this content as-is is a good idea that I just can't EVEN. Nope. I was really looking forward to playing with my husband today, after completing Coldharbor, making us both fairly new in VR levels. But now....I feel like, what's the point?
ESO is a game with AVA focus, so its not a PVE game at all, quite the contrary actually.
Since day one, ZOS released a lot of content that would be more typical for a raid or die game, than for the AVA genre. From this point, you as a PVE only player shouldn't complain as you were served content in a game, that originally had a different type of player in mind.
The justice system, which was supposed to be the first update to the AVA system, was stripped of its actual PVP part, mostly because of the crying by some players and while I understood a few concerns, most of them were pretty hilarious, yet made the Devs consider them.
Now the Imperial City is about to roll out, the first pvp update in 16 months! Don't you think that your claims are not just unjustified, but also a bit rude? Rude to the Developers, but also the gamers.
Don't you think its about time, that the people who were once promised another Age of Camelot finally get a few new toys to play with and that you should at least test it out first, before you complain?
The good thing about DLC´s always was, you only have to buy it if you like it. So as the Americans tend to say, either you love it or you leave it.
While you should certainly not leave ESO because of a single non PVE focused DLC, you should probably leave this DLC aside if it doesn't appeal you on the PTS.
Just wait for the next one which will surely have enough new raids or quests for you, where you will not fear any pvp skill checks to succeed.
Needless to say, even this so called "PVP DLC", will offer new pve content as Gina & Jess already mentioned.
The fears some people tend to have about games is beyond me. If not all goes their way, they start acting as the world will go down
Where did it say that the PvP aspect of the justice system got scrapped because PvEers complained? From everything I saw it seemed like they didn't really know how to implement it and they even said it's a touchy system and was tricky to navigate. Lately it seems to have been completely abandoned. If you have a source for why it is someone else's fault but the developers I would love to see it.
As for the IC, I don't plan to buy it as that's not my cup of tea but I am glad to see something put in for the hardcore PvPers. I don't agree with forced PvP or PvE. I didn't agree with it when they added those undaunted helms that could only be obtained via dungeons and I don't agree now that we need to setup PvE players as stone pinatas for dedicated gank squads.
It's not confirmed it's scrapped, but it appears to be. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the chain of events mean it was primarily due to concern over PVE focused players' reactions to the idea. Essentially they announced the Justice system, PVE players complained it would be unfair and promote griefing despite being an opt in system, threatening boycotts. At the time ZOS hadn't yet launched consoles and the risk tolerance was understandably and wisely lower. Upon seeing the outcry, with 1.6 incoming, they then changed the plan to be a two phase implementation and little was said about the PVP in it ever again through now.
As I said, it's not very hard to see what happened. The difference with the Imperial City and how it's played out is that ZOS is in a much better position to do what they think will work for the game long term, and not sweat the smaller stuff as much, after having an arguably successful mechanics overhaul and other than potential and typical rebalancing on it, champion system implementation. This combined with the, by all accounts wildly commercially successful console launch and very clearly high player retention judging by activity levels on social media, forums, unofficial sales stats, and anecdotal reports, means we will see greater focus on the long haul even for short term unpopular ideas.
I have no inside info. However, it is a part of my field, so it is my best, educated guess.Edited by Attorneyatlawl on July 19, 2015 7:35PM-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.0 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As a purely PvE player, I'd love the full justice system. Crime is a joke now, there are no consequences whatsoever. However, I understand the griefing potential if there were no level limits in place. It would be really difficult and risky to implement, so I understand why ZOS decided to shelve it.
I still don't like having two vet ranks and their gear locked behind a PvP gate, though. Or losing all my stones to a train of v16 with 500 CP.0 -
Shadesofkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm indifferent to the IC PvP side of things. It's interesting.
As for Justice PvP, that I was vehemently against unless it had a toggle.0 -
markt84✭✭✭All these people crying makes me want to hide outside a dungeon and gank them when they come out1
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newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Essentially they announced the Justice system, PVE players complained it would be unfair and promote griefing despite being an opt in system
I'm trying to recall what I head about the alleged "in the works" bits of the justice system. I don't really want to rob anyone (I admit that my goblin girl occasionally picks a pocket - but she is lousy at it - that and opening found chests in the world are about the sum total of my legerdemain participation), and I really don't want to be robbed/mugged by other players.
I don't recall hearing that it was opt in (or even opt out) - but that would answer my fears.
This TV stone system seems like getting robbed with no opt-out. Hence I am currently worried.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis1 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximusDargus wrote: »Pangnirtung wrote: »
Nobody is forcing you to PvP. You don't have to enter PvP zones if you don't want to. Now if you feel compelled to look behind every rock and tree or are a completist, well then, that's your own problem. The game is comprised of both PvE and PvP. Imperial City has always been planned as a PvP centered Instance because it is in the heart of Cyrodiil the PvP zone.
You don't have to go there. So if you die there...that's on you.
Toggle on/off PvP.... where is my LOL button?
PVP planned as PVP centered instance?
Then why there is major portion of PVE in there? Remove PVE from PVP. If PVPers care so much about kills, zerging and ganking then remove every single crafting station, PVE mob, dungeon from cyriodiil so PVP is really PVP.
Otherwise, at all who say "Hurr durr IC is pvp, dont go there".... where is my LOL button?
Let's just clarify something, the zone is indeed a PvP zone and has always been planned as such. The fact that some elements of PvE are included is no different than the existence currently of purely PvE elements in Cyrodiil. Some people go there now to complete them, some don't. This update will be no different in that sense, so there is no reason for them to NOT include PvE elements in the zone just because some players may choose not to participate. The zone is what it is. A war zone where all who enter will be at risk. There are different levels of risk, from minimal to great. If none of this is appealing on any level, then YES - you can choose not to go:ZOS_RichLambert, mod:
I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2042185/#Comment_2042185
Doesn't really get much clearer.
If you need more, here is video and more explanation of IC dating back to last year's QuakeCon in 2014.0 -
BabeestorGor✭✭✭✭PVP is the reason every class can play the same, it's the reason every class can look the same, and it's the reason there are no true racial abilities in this game.
PVP creates situations where game developers must screw everything up in order to try and make a game fair.
PVP sucks and ruins games like this.
There....I said it.
Nah, thats because its TES, a game series where orc barbarians have been becoming Archmage and Thieves Guild Guildmaster since MW.
edit: I'm glad PvP fans are getting some extra content. Not worried if I don't get access to new gear as soon as them as I only play PvE atm. Looking forward to Orsinium.
Edited by BabeestorGor on July 19, 2015 8:31PMBabeester Gor is the Axe Goddess, the Implacable Anger, the Avenging Daughter and the Earth Guardian.
Vriddi gra-Yildnarz, Dragonknight and Smith
Myrvanwe, Sorcerer and Enchanter
Tsajirra, Nightblade and Clothier
Vilvyni Indarys, Dragonknight and Woodworker
Arielle Alouette, Templar and Provisioner
Fishes in Troubled Waters, Nightblade and Alchemist
Shanika Some Long Title I'd Change If I Could, Templar and Aspirant Jeweller
Pippi Longhorn, Nightblade, Ne'er-do-well, and "Tribute" character
EU PC.0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭newtinmpls wrote: »Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Essentially they announced the Justice system, PVE players complained it would be unfair and promote griefing despite being an opt in system
I'm trying to recall what I head about the alleged "in the works" bits of the justice system. I don't really want to rob anyone (I admit that my goblin girl occasionally picks a pocket - but she is lousy at it - that and opening found chests in the world are about the sum total of my legerdemain participation), and I really don't want to be robbed/mugged by other players.
I don't recall hearing that it was opt in (or even opt out) - but that would answer my fears.
This TV stone system seems like getting robbed with no opt-out. Hence I am currently worried.
The PvP portion of the Justice System that they had originally discussed was designed so that PvP only happened between guards and outlaws.
Guards would wear a special tabard marking them as a guard; at that point, they could attack and kill any player with an active bounty in order to claim it.
Not wearing the tabard, not flagged for PvP -- the thievery and everything was still only to be player to NPC based; no concerns of being robbed or mugged.
A number of players complained about that design.
There were even complaints that players did not want to see other players PvPing in towns because that would ruin the game for them.
Apparently in an MMO, you should not be subject to witnessing others enjoy themselves."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really don't think it's the user base's fault that ZOS is running a year behind in their development of new PVP content.
That being said, I for one plan to leave you PVP-ers to enjoy your new city. I'll wait to pay for content I can enjoy.
This. Not anti pvp/ pvp-ers, just does nothing for me.
Unfortunately with the bump to VR16, PVE players will still be stuck in VR14 gear without IC.1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I really don't think it's the user base's fault that ZOS is running a year behind in their development of new PVP content.
That being said, I for one plan to leave you PVP-ers to enjoy your new city. I'll wait to pay for content I can enjoy.
This. Not anti pvp/ pvp-ers, just does nothing for me.
Unfortunately with the bump to VR16, PVE players will still be stuck in VR14 gear without IC.
Can they farm PvE dungeons for gold and then just buy the gears from PvP players?
Or is the new system completely bound, like with Undaunted gears and how PvP players had no choice but to do crap content to get them?"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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CaptainObvious✭✭✭✭Can they farm PvE dungeons for gold and then just buy the gears from PvP players?
Or is the new system completely bound, like with Undaunted gears and how PvP players had no choice but to do crap content to get them?
Little from column A, little from column B.Due to a typo in the system, the area was accosted by the Daedric Prince Moar Lag Brawls.0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭CaptainObvious wrote: »
So similar to the current Alliance Point system, where Alliance Points cannot be traded, but gears bought with them can be?"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭newtinmpls wrote: »Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Essentially they announced the Justice system, PVE players complained it would be unfair and promote griefing despite being an opt in system
I'm trying to recall what I head about the alleged "in the works" bits of the justice system. I don't really want to rob anyone (I admit that my goblin girl occasionally picks a pocket - but she is lousy at it - that and opening found chests in the world are about the sum total of my legerdemain participation), and I really don't want to be robbed/mugged by other players.
I don't recall hearing that it was opt in (or even opt out) - but that would answer my fears.
This TV stone system seems like getting robbed with no opt-out. Hence I am currently worried.
The opt-out is to go participate in content that doesn't use that system, such as normal Cyrodiil PVP or PVE activities. Same with PVP in the Justice system: you aren't forced into it.CaptainObvious wrote: »
Nope. Every last bit of equipment the Tel Var stones can purchase, is tradeable. This means you can, quite literally, never step foot in Cyrodiil or the Imperial City, yet get the best PVP gear in the entire game.
Meanwhile, you can't avoid Trials, Veteran DSA, or Undaunted pledges and get the best PVE gear in the game since it's all bound/non-tradeable.
How is that fair?Edited by Attorneyatlawl on July 19, 2015 9:10PM-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »CaptainObvious wrote: »
Nope. Every last bit of equipment the Tel Var stones can purchase, is tradeable. This means you can, quite literally, never step foot in Cyrodiil or the Imperial City, yet get the best PVP gear in the entire game.
Meanwhile, you can't avoid Trials, Veteran DSA, or Undaunted pledges and get the best PVE gear in the game since it's all bound/non-tradeable.
How is that fair?
Hopefully that is indicative that ZOS learned their lesson regarding gear distribution after the sea of complaints from PvP players having to do Undaunted junk.
PvE players always say that it is PvP whining that changes the game, so guessing that is why the latest gear system is set up to have a degree of tradeability to it rather than the exclusivity of Undaunted forcing PvP players to PvE.
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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RazzPitazz✭✭✭✭
In all fairness discussions from both parties tend to the forming of these.... half systems.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »CaptainObvious wrote: »
Nope. Every last bit of equipment the Tel Var stones can purchase, is tradeable. This means you can, quite literally, never step foot in Cyrodiil or the Imperial City, yet get the best PVP gear in the entire game.
Meanwhile, you can't avoid Trials, Veteran DSA, or Undaunted pledges and get the best PVE gear in the game since it's all bound/non-tradeable.
How is that fair?
Hopefully that is indicative that ZOS learned their lesson regarding gear distribution after the sea of complaints from PvP players having to do Undaunted junk.
PvE players always say that it is PvP whining that changes the game, so guessing that is why the latest gear system is set up to have a degree of tradeability to it rather than the exclusivity of Undaunted forcing PvP players to PvE.PC NA
VR1 - Jar'eed - Khajiit Dragon Knight - AD
VR1 - Broad Tail - Argonian Templar - EP
All-Star Crafter Guild0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭RazzPitazz wrote: »
In all fairness discussions from both parties tend to the forming of these.... half systems.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »CaptainObvious wrote: »
Nope. Every last bit of equipment the Tel Var stones can purchase, is tradeable. This means you can, quite literally, never step foot in Cyrodiil or the Imperial City, yet get the best PVP gear in the entire game.
Meanwhile, you can't avoid Trials, Veteran DSA, or Undaunted pledges and get the best PVE gear in the game since it's all bound/non-tradeable.
How is that fair?
Hopefully that is indicative that ZOS learned their lesson regarding gear distribution after the sea of complaints from PvP players having to do Undaunted junk.
PvE players always say that it is PvP whining that changes the game, so guessing that is why the latest gear system is set up to have a degree of tradeability to it rather than the exclusivity of Undaunted forcing PvP players to PvE.
Well yeah, that is my sentiment as well. The changes applied to the game are result of both communities, not just one or the other.
However, PvE players are quite vocal that any change to how systems, gears, or skills function in game that changes the game in any objectionable way is the fault of PvP players -- so giving a little credit where credit is due, since the PvP population complained quite loudly about being forced to do PvE content that they didn't want to, due to the design of the old system.Edited by Samadhi on July 19, 2015 9:24PM"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭RazzPitazz wrote: »
In all fairness discussions from both parties tend to the forming of these.... half systems.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »CaptainObvious wrote: »
Nope. Every last bit of equipment the Tel Var stones can purchase, is tradeable. This means you can, quite literally, never step foot in Cyrodiil or the Imperial City, yet get the best PVP gear in the entire game.
Meanwhile, you can't avoid Trials, Veteran DSA, or Undaunted pledges and get the best PVE gear in the game since it's all bound/non-tradeable.
How is that fair?
Hopefully that is indicative that ZOS learned their lesson regarding gear distribution after the sea of complaints from PvP players having to do Undaunted junk.
PvE players always say that it is PvP whining that changes the game, so guessing that is why the latest gear system is set up to have a degree of tradeability to it rather than the exclusivity of Undaunted forcing PvP players to PvE.
Well yeah, that is my sentiment as well. The changes applied to the game are result of both communities, not just one or the other.
However, PvE players are quite vocal that any change to how systems, gears, or skills function in game that changes the game in any objectionable way is the fault of PvP players -- so giving a little credit where credit is due, since the PvP population complained quite loudly about being forced to do PvE content that they didn't want to, due to the design of the old system.
This has less to do with itemization systems than it does with the economy set in place for the game.
First off, not all PvE sets are bound. There are copious amounts of sets from non vet DSA for example, selling all the time. Some people prefer to not bother with vDSA for the v14 sets, buy cheap blue v13s improve them to gold and call it a day. Plenty of other items sold in similar fashion.
Last I checked, the rings of the Healer set were selling for about 30-50k on the EU server, whereas rings of Cyrodill even at v6 sell for around the same amount, up to 100k for the 14s. I don't hear anyone complaining in game about this either. In fact, zone chat both in Cyrodiil as well as Belkarth has usually got some comments peppered in now and then from ppl expressing delight over how loaded they are in gold for some sucker buying the rings which they can get yet again like hotcakes....
It's all an illusion. What passes through the hands on one player sticks to those of another and none is the wiser or unhappy. This system is at the very least offering more fairness in that if PvE players expect to earn enough stones to buy mats rather than farming gold to just sit comfortably in Grahtwood to buy them from a guild store, they are going to have to engage in some level of risk, even if only to get the dailies done for boxed TV stone rewards. I'd say its an improvement and long overdue.1 -
RustedValor✭✭✭I wonder if everyone is gonna have to go back and varm new V16 monster helms LOL. WOW that would suck.0
