TV Stones: Brainstorm how it can be exploited so it can be addressed ahead of time.

technohic · July 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

What I see as a problem is gankers camping at the sewer man hole waiting for players to go in to deposite there stones. This is a problem and a real one even before PTS drops cause we all know gankers will be doing this and my opinion it's best we and ZoS try to find out a answer before it even becomes a problem.

Lol. Ganking always works best if you're where you're not expected. Ganking stupid predictable gankers will be a fun sport

I'm just saying and it probely doesn't help the "sport" when players can hit with 28K+ snipes with one button.

Dont forget there is a lot of balancing coming with this expansion. Including an across the board reduction to damage, heals and shields while in Cyrodiil. Ganking will not be as instant as it is now and therefore a lot riskier.

technohic · July 2015

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

I'm sure there will be several exploits exposed when it hits PTS. We will just have to wait until then.

Why wait? Might as well come up with the ideas as soon as we can and then test them at that time.

Scamandros · July 2015

On the upside with stones only being rewarded to the killing blow it should hopefully discourage zerging around IC hunting players, as only one of that zerg is going to get something per kill. With pvp changes to increase mitigations by a substantial amount hopefully instagib ganking will be (almost) no longer a thing, and will make for an interesting experience for ganker and player alike

ZOS_GinaBruno · July 2015

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

People will be able to trade them... Want to buy 1000 stones? Ok meet me at location (what ever) and I will let you kill me...

True, that could (and likely will) happen. However, you still need to get back to the banker safely with all your Tel Var Stones.

RazzPitazz · July 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

People will be able to trade them... Want to buy 1000 stones? Ok meet me at location (what ever) and I will let you kill me...

True, that could (and likely will) happen. However, you still need to get back to the banker safely with all your Tel Var Stones.

Good point. All of the evil that can happen will be pitted against a risk vs reward system.
We will see how great the risk is on the PTS

MissBizz · July 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

What I see as a problem is gankers camping at the sewer man hole waiting for players to go in to deposite there stones. This is a problem and a real one even before PTS drops cause we all know gankers will be doing this and my opinion it's best we and ZoS try to find out a answer before it even becomes a problem.

Lol. Ganking always works best if you're where you're not expected. Ganking stupid predictable gankers will be a fun sport

I'm just saying and it probely doesn't help the "sport" when players can hit with 28K+ snipes with one button.

Radiant magelight would bring that down to 14K... detect potions: I think I'll start crafting some right now.

Dude it just doesn't work the way you predict: camping a predictable spot as a ganker is just asking to be rekt. I'm not saying ganking won't happen... I'm just saying it's not going to happen in the obvious places you're predicting will be the problem.

Besides... did you miss the part about buying a teleport token for 500 TV stones that takes you back to your safe camp directly?

No and I'm not talking about right ontop of the man hole cover of course there know not to camp there but say across the street behind a barrel far enough to not be effected by mage light or pots but close enough for snipe to still have it's damage last time i check snipe still had the farthest range out of most of the skills.

I really don't mean this as a bad way.. But.. Isn't waiting by the manhole cover just like waiting inside a delve door? Which.. Well.. It happens quite a bit.

TheBull · July 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

People will be able to trade them... Want to buy 1000 stones? Ok meet me at location (what ever) and I will let you kill me...

True, that could (and likely will) happen. However, you still need to get back to the banker safely with all your Tel Var Stones.

Rev Rielle · July 2015

technohic wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Teiji wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

People will be able to trade them... Want to buy 1000 stones? Ok meet me at location (what ever) and I will let you kill me...

You gave me an idea to change the title to brainstorm how to exploit the system so it can be addressed before it becomes an issue. So lets hear all the ideas everyone has!

Of course, there can be a fine line between "exploit" and "creative use of the system."

If you watch the ESO Live stream, they addressed "boosting" and the buddy-buddy system of exploiting Tel Var Stones.

I actually forgot this.

Does anyone remember the specifics of what they said?
What is to stop someone "selling" 10,000 Tel Var Stones? They leave the bank with the and meet someone in an awkward location where they take all of their stones from their corpse. They could just mail them the fee before hand or whatever, I have friends on opposite factions too, so we could effectively donate each other Stones if we wanted too?

I missed ESO Live unfortunately, but one way around this - just off the top of my head - is to have something like a transaction 'tax' (poor term I know). E.g. I have 80 Tel Var Stones, someone kills me. I loose 50% of my stones (i.e. 40) and the enemy gets 20 stones. Next time I am defeated by a player I loose 50% again (20 stones now) and the enemy that kills me gets 10. And so on.

I think it might address two things:
a) Not loosing all your stones at once from just one mistake/gank/ambush out in PvP etc, and
b) Stopping players with characters from opposing factions swapping/trading/selling Tel Var Stones.

Love this idea.

Thanks!

technohic · July 2015

Thinking about this, I just had a flash back to an old game and thought about how cool it would be to put a bounty on the head of someone who stole your stones. Maybe when the player turns in the bounty, the stones would be also given back to you if that bounty had the amount of stones they took from you on them at that time.

Just kind of an "I wish" sort of thing that I am sure would just be noted but not on the plans. Could have a tracking pet to help with the hunt as well.

randolphbenoit · July 2015

Until more info comes out at Quakecon and people test it out on PTS we just have to wait, i just hoping way it setup will not alienate crafters wanting to make different alliance styles - ie. DC can only craft DC style...

RazzPitazz · July 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

People will be able to trade them... Want to buy 1000 stones? Ok meet me at location (what ever) and I will let you kill me...

True, that could (and likely will) happen. However, you still need to get back to the banker safely with all your Tel Var Stones.

I had a question during the episode that went unnoticed so perhaps you could oblige?
If the TVSton system works well in IC as an incentive against zerging, which in turn would plausibly reduce system issues such as lag, is this a system ZOS is considering to use through out all of Cyrodiil in the future?

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · July 2015

Player loot is going to destroy our community which is one of the most valuable elements of this game and it will cause IC to become a wasteland like craglorn 2-3 months after release and it will cause the pvp community to shrink.

xaraan · July 2015

They have no idea what happens in the actual game play. I think ZoS thinks players actually play fare.

One side uses a zerg of 40+ to fight five and cap a keep, you think they won't roll through and take stones from mobs and players the same way?

Edit: and before they think "splitting" up between those that kill will be enough, those zergs don't care because by zerging like that they guarantee victory on every small group and eventually they all get the reward as it adds up fight after fight and b/c of their size have very little risk for it. Risk/Reward concept = broken by this. Yes you can fight them with another zerg, but there are a lot of players that would love to play pvp without needing to be in an enormous group (and without lag).

RazzPitazz · July 2015

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Player loot is going to destroy our community which is one of the most valuable elements of this game and it will cause IC to become a wasteland like craglorn 2-3 months after release and it will cause the pvp community to shrink.

This seems like a bold statement. Perhaps you can expound on this. On what pretenses do you think this will likely happen? Has this occurred in other games?

Lord Xanhorn · July 2015

I'm all about less regulation by ZOS on this. Let the community decide how to deal with gankers and trolls.

Amsel_McKay · July 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

People will be able to trade them... Want to buy 1000 stones? Ok meet me at location (what ever) and I will let you kill me...

True, that could (and likely will) happen. However, you still need to get back to the banker safely with all your Tel Var Stones.

You mean get the stones then log off? or are you talking about how people will pay for stones in advance and then never show up at the location? I was thinking about this though and in reality if the items you buy with stones are tradeable anyway who cares, people will just use real money to buy the gear. I can see the sites now: vr16 stone head piece $20

Korah_Eaglecry · July 2015

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

People will be able to trade them... Want to buy 1000 stones? Ok meet me at location (what ever) and I will let you kill me...

You gave me an idea to change the title to brainstorm how to exploit the system so it can be addressed before it becomes an issue. So lets hear all the ideas everyone has!

Of course, there can be a fine line between "exploit" and "creative use of the system."

If you watch the ESO Live stream, they addressed "boosting" and the buddy-buddy system of exploiting Tel Var Stones.

Thought that was just that the multipliers won't work on looting players.

Even that simple implementation is at least something. I'm sure that with player feedback and PTS testing, anti-griefing and anti-boosting measures will be put into place, or a diminishing return on it.

They giggled as they called it ganking. Theyre aware of its griefing nature and they look forward to it.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Even if distribution of TV stones will discourage zerging zergs will still zerg.

Because of sick PVPers mentaility "If i cant get it noone is going to get it". And so will we have zerg trains running in circles from sewer entrance to sewer entrance wiping out everyone who steps in just to preven them from accesing content for which they PAID REAL MONEY.

And during that we will have devs posting smileys and trying to tell us how nice mechanic it is, that awards other for harassing players and STEALING, LEECHING on thier hard work.

You spent hours in dungeon killing mobs and earning stones? NAH your 3 hours of work mean nothing, because a cookie cutter PVP DPS ganker build from video tutorial who spent 3 minutes respeccing and was just waiting at sewer exit deserves them more.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · July 2015

Its silly to even have them lootable. This will be the biggest disaster in a long line of them from ZOS. They are working very hard to alienate most of the player base.

Audigy · July 2015

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Player loot is going to destroy our community which is one of the most valuable elements of this game and it will cause IC to become a wasteland like craglorn 2-3 months after release and it will cause the pvp community to shrink.

Wrong.

Ultima has player looting and its the best MMO community worldwide. Small yes, but very helpful and forthcoming.

What destroys communities is the type of behavior WOW taught its playerbase, where you can be a big .... and never have to face the consequences for it.

Teiji · July 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

People will be able to trade them... Want to buy 1000 stones? Ok meet me at location (what ever) and I will let you kill me...

True, that could (and likely will) happen. However, you still need to get back to the banker safely with all your Tel Var Stones.

Thanks for clearing this up Gina!

We can now hunt enemy Alliance players as well as using friendly player trades as traps.

Turelus · July 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

People will be able to trade them... Want to buy 1000 stones? Ok meet me at location (what ever) and I will let you kill me...

True, that could (and likely will) happen. However, you still need to get back to the banker safely with all your Tel Var Stones.

Set up sale.
Meet and "trade".
Leave with deal complete.
Tell you friends the deal is made and the mark is heading home.
Friends execute ambush.
Return to step 1.

F7sus4 · July 2015

Teiji wrote: »

What is to stop someone "selling" 10,000 Tel Var Stones? They leave the bank with the and meet someone in an awkward location where they take all of their stones from their corpse.

Only to get ganked back by a hidden friend of the seller afterwards. No gold, no stones. Exactly my first thought, along with other people responding from what I see. A common-sense-consequence.

helediron · July 2015

If the entrance between sewers and safe zone is just a plain door without guards, is that a perfect place for farming like in tower farming? Everybody gets spawnkilled when entering and are trapped if trying to exit.

Sausage · July 2015

I love it, like all out of sudden ganking is becoming a problem what people have done in ESO since launch. We all have been knocked down while riding or moving to battle location, and of course we have been never killed while using siege weapon either.

helediron · July 2015

Sausage wrote: »

I love it, like all out of sudden ganking is becoming a problem what people have done in ESO since launch. We all have been knocked down while riding or moving to battle location, and of course we have been never killed while using siege weapon either.

You would love entrance farming? Then we definitely need guards outside the entrances. It's ok to get ganked in the sewers, but not at the loading screen.

technohic · July 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

People will be able to trade them... Want to buy 1000 stones? Ok meet me at location (what ever) and I will let you kill me...

You gave me an idea to change the title to brainstorm how to exploit the system so it can be addressed before it becomes an issue. So lets hear all the ideas everyone has!

Of course, there can be a fine line between "exploit" and "creative use of the system."

If you watch the ESO Live stream, they addressed "boosting" and the buddy-buddy system of exploiting Tel Var Stones.

Thought that was just that the multipliers won't work on looting players.

Even that simple implementation is at least something. I'm sure that with player feedback and PTS testing, anti-griefing and anti-boosting measures will be put into place, or a diminishing return on it.

They giggled as they called it ganking. Theyre aware of its griefing nature and they look forward to it.

It's not griefing it is a valid tactic generally used by smaller groups to pick out targets. Sure, their target might be smaller and at a great disadvantage but it's a way to fight without a zerg when zergs are around.

I'm surprised people have no shame in crying the way they do here. If it's not gankers, it's the zergs that people will cry about, which really if you are afraid of being ganked, the zerg should be your best friend. Not sure what you want outside of someone having to approach you out of stealth after making sure you have even numbers and then politely asking if they can fight you for your stones.

Stones are basically a resource like anything else in Cyrodiil that is intended to be fought over. I'm truly sorry for the people who acknowledge that it's just not for them sadly after a long content drought and that even though it isn't for them, thrre still is something they want from it, but that's life. I would love undaunted passive and monster helmets but that stuff isn't for me. If you expect everything in life to be for you, you're in for a bad time.

Darkonflare15 · July 2015

So far you get crafting materials from deconstructing loot from enemies, buy them with tel var stones, and buy from player's characters. You can get items that you need to deconstructing from dungeons and pvp areas. You cannot get Tel var stones from dungeons. You can get high level gear from doing the dungeons and using tel var stones by buying them at the vendors at your alliance's safe area. There are three new crafting set location located in you Alliance's safe area. So you can get high level gear by doing dungeons, Pvp or Pve to get Tel var stones, and doing the above to get crafting materials to craft new set gear. You can also quest to to get boxes that cannot be looted from. I see multiple ways that can still enjoy this content without having to do this pvp. It just sad that people always overact before they even try to understand it.

CaptainObvious · July 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

People will be able to trade them... Want to buy 1000 stones? Ok meet me at location (what ever) and I will let you kill me...

True, that could (and likely will) happen. However, you still need to get back to the banker safely with all your Tel Var Stones.

Get ready for all of the customer service requests for when people pay for stones and get killed because the person offering never had the intention of dying.

Bromburak · July 2015

technohic wrote: »

I will say ganker's are not a problem if you travel in numbers, but what's to stop allies from allowing you to fall so your attacker gets your stones before jumping the attacker to take your stones fir their selves?

In that time i farmed so much gold that I buy the crafting mats.

Stones are overrated but still a nice option.