How do you think ESO compares to Final Fantasy XIV as an MMO?

Roco32373 · July 2015

I love ESO and FFXIV. But I haven't played a ton of either. So I was wondering how you guys saw it...is one fundamentally "better" than the other?

To me, endgame is important...I'm not sure how either game handles that.

Thanks!!

Elijah_Crow · July 2015

For me ESO has a much more open feel. The combat is active and not the old style tab target like FF. Much more immersive setting and more of a gritty feel overall. ESO wins hands down for me.

Thumbdunked · July 2015

Atm for me ff14arr takes the cake, its end game is 10x better than eso in the pve department and storys in FF14 are fantastic and keep you engaged and wondering what will happen next i also love the fact that 1 character can do everything so i dont need to reroll to try a new class, all in all FF14ARR has so much more content to keep you bussy and entertained and it has a chat box on console which is a big bonus for me. The one and only thing eso has over FF14ARR Is the combat i much prefer eso's action combat over FF14ARRs 2.5 sec global cd system. I prefer FF14ARR Over eso but i still think eso can become alot better than it currently is. Thats just my 2 cents on the matter

Digielf · July 2015

the only reason ESO beats FFXIV is because FFXIV is still subscription, we live in 2015 and subscription in video games is unacceptable no matter what quality they have its an old payment model that noone wants, they should let you play for ffree and have an optional subscription for more bonuses. even though ESO is an Elder Scrolls, Final Fantasy is still a bigger LOT bigger franchise but subscription should die already

Carde · July 2015

Doflamingo wrote: »

the only reason ESO beats FFXIV is because FFXIV is still subscription, we live in 2015 and subscription in video games is unacceptable no matter what quality they have its an old payment model that noone wants, they should let you play for ffree and have an optional subscription for more bonuses. even though ESO is an Elder Scrolls, Final Fantasy is still a bigger LOT bigger franchise but subscription should die already

So you'd prefer them not giving you real content and trying to sell you mounts and costumes every month?

Yeah that sounds great. Welcome to the future!

FFXIV is a better MMO. There is no argument about it. The subscription is the reason that people playing it get new dungeons, raids, classes and side content (gold saucer, triple triad, chocobo racing, housing system, etc etc) every 2 months like we were originally promised in ESO.

I've had a lot of love for this game, but whatever the reason something got lost along the way and its somewhere in limbo between MMO and good game.

SOLDIER_1stClass · July 2015

Personally, the Elder Scrolls Online lacks any real feeling of wonder and amazement. The world is beautiful the combat enjoyable and robust; however, the story and end game is very lackadaisical. I was just expecting more from Elder Scrolls Online story wise when it came to the main line and all the quest.

For me Final Fantasy XIV is the more favorable as it was what I was expecting. But that may be my own fault as I could have expected too much from Elder Scrolls Online.

Thumbdunked · July 2015

Doflamingo wrote: »

the only reason ESO beats FFXIV is because FFXIV is still subscription, we live in 2015 and subscription in video games is unacceptable no matter what quality they have its an old payment model that noone wants, they should let you play for ffree and have an optional subscription for more bonuses. even though ESO is an Elder Scrolls, Final Fantasy is still a bigger LOT bigger franchise but subscription should die already

The subscription model works great with games that can deliver regular content and updates such as FF14ARR and WoW.

I know this isnt apart of the game but im gonna put it in any way, the dev's of FF14ARR interact with their playerbase constantly always letting their players know whats going on or whats coming next and addressing any concerns, unlike eso.

xoduspaladin · July 2015

My opinion is that ESO definitely got one of the best combat system out there as far as MMO goes, on this front FFXIV played it too safe and is a lot like other mmos out there, which is growing tiring. Storyline-wise, I think they are about evenly match as far as quality goes. I tend to like the side stories for ESO a lot better though and the NPC are fully voiced and also talk while you are walking around near them unlike with FFXIV. One of my biggest complaints about the NPC for FFXIV is how long winded they can be and they have to explain every single detail, and says a lot coming from someone who loves reading NPC quests in games.

Immersion is all FFXIV though. If you have a solo quest, the NPC will usually cut to a scene where it just you and him/her/it, unlike ESO. Also their Fate system (which is a blatant rip-off of GW2 Dynamic events) also does a good job in keeping you invested in the gaming world. The Anchors from ESO is pretty cool, though nothing that we haven't seen before in other games. And immersion pretty much do not exist in this game at all, which is too bad considering what the source material is based off of. On the console version, you are force to chat with your voice, you have ridiculous PSN names instead of character names, and going into dungeons to see everything is cleared up from previous players doesn't help out at all as far as immersion goes.

End game content, I'm just getting to that right now as I just became Veteran rank, but I can tell you already that FFXIV has this game beat as far as the amount of quest that was available to you, even when it was vanilla FFXIV. PVE-Wise, FFXIV got this game beat by a long margin, but PVP-wise its easy goes to ESO (FFXIV is infamously bad, you guys think you have problems with PVP? Try doing it with FFXIV).

I like the games about the same, but I do think FFXIV have an edge right now, which is why they can continue to do subs whereas this game had to go BTP. I think also that Square Enix listen to their fanbase and "implement" solutions better than Xenimax seems to be doing right now, and they also make better (and dare I say obvious) choices and decisions. So yeah, that's my take on this discussion.

RazzPitazz · July 2015

SOLDIER_1stClass wrote: »

Personally, the Elder Scrolls Online lacks any real feeling of wonder and amazement. The world is beautiful the combat enjoyable and robust; however, the story and end game is very lackadaisical. I was just expecting more from Elder Scrolls Online story wise when it came to the main line and all the quest.

For me Final Fantasy XIV is the more favorable as it was what I was expecting. But that may be my own fault as I could have expected too much from Elder Scrolls Online.

I gave you an awesome for using a word I actually had to look up. Lackadaisical. Nice.

JesterH · July 2015

Doflamingo wrote: »

the only reason ESO beats FFXIV is because FFXIV is still subscription, we live in 2015 and subscription in video games is unacceptable no matter what quality they have its an old payment model that noone wants, they should let you play for ffree and have an optional subscription for more bonuses. even though ESO is an Elder Scrolls, Final Fantasy is still a bigger LOT bigger franchise but subscription should die already

World of warcraft disagrees. World most populore MMO and it have a sub fee and always will have. And if you want quality content you have to pay. And its not Expensive

KerinKor · July 2015

Roco32373 wrote: »

I love ESO and FFXIV. But I haven't played a ton of either. So I was wondering how you guys saw it...is one fundamentally "better" than the other?

To me, endgame is important...I'm not sure how either game handles that.

Thanks!!

FFXIV is in part a 1990s group-or-die affair, you can't level without having to 'group up' regularly for some pretty difficult fights, especially once you hit 50.

IMO they appeal to different types of players, those preferring a largely solo or 'low man' game won't get far in FFXIV.

KerinKor · July 2015

Doflamingo wrote: »

the only reason ESO beats FFXIV is because FFXIV is still subscription, we live in 2015 and subscription in video games is unacceptable no matter what quality they have its an old payment model that noone wants, they should let you play for ffree and have an optional subscription for more bonuses. even though ESO is an Elder Scrolls, Final Fantasy is still a bigger LOT bigger franchise but subscription should die already

Interestingly FFXIV has at least twice the number of players as ESO .. not sure what 'beats' means to you.

As someone else mention two of the biggest MMOs around are subscription based .. they don't need to pander to the free-loaders.

dday3six · July 2015

FFXIV's default UI and HUD beats ESO's hands down. With Shown Numbers for Resources, Damage, and EXP, Target lines, Focus Target, Buff/Debuff Timers, an Aggro Table, Visual Ques for Executes and Combos, it's night and day different. Also nearly all HUD elements are fully customizable. You can position, resize, and remove them as desired.

The arenas for dungeon and instanced fights are also designed in a way which doesn't leave players fighting the camera angle or wondering which mob is which in most all situations.

The class/job system is more focused, thus 'dungeoning' is a smoother interaction. Tanks are Tanks, Healers are Healers, and DPS are DPS. Player choice is giving in the ability to level up everything on one character, so there is no need for alts to play something different. Infact there are needed cross-class skills which will require an endgame focused player to play multiple classes to a certain level to unlock.

Selling Goods is also much easier in FFXIV. All sells can be done through Market Board listings, viewable by all players on your server. So it's less hit or miss than ESO's Guild Traders.

However ESO wins with it's PVP, which personally is one of the most entertaining experiences I've played. Combat is also far less rigid, lacking positional requirements, having more simplified combat rotations, and featuring more reflex actions.

ESO also has much more to do solo. Much of the content in FFXIV is found in dungeons, and you cannot play them without a group. Some content is open to a Que system, some, particularly endgame, is locked when it's first released to a premade group.

Both games are great in their owns ways. However since FFXIV focused on having a more traditional MMO UI and HUD. I give the nod to it currently. Once ESO implements something similar, the gap with dramatically close.

AngryNord · July 2015

Never played FFXIV

Leijona · July 2015

There are points, where I prefer ESO and there are points, where I prefer FFXIV.

FFXIV:

+ Stuff to do besides fighting (Chocobo-Races, Triple-Triad)
+ Housing
+ Great Raids in the end game content
+ Better fishing and crafting system
+ Good information policy from the producer
+ More group content even during leveling phase
+ Levelsync for FATEs, dungeons ...
+ Great group finder
+ Text chat on Console
- Combat system is good, but not what I prefer

ESO:

+ Combat is more what I prefer
+ Great story telling in the main quests
+ Setting is more what I prefer
+ I like most of the UI
+ Craglorn (yes, I like Craglorn)
- Not much to do besides fighting (steeling for ... no special purpose)
- Bad information policy
- Leveling phase way to easy
- No text chat on console
- Time between updates on PC and console is too long (compared with FFXIV, where they come at the same time for three systems)

Although it might seem, that FFXIV is way ahead for me, I still prefer to play ESO, mainly due to the both bold typed words, and therefor I just hope, that we will see more of the things, I love about FFXIV, especially the three bold typed words I love over there.

Thumbdunked · July 2015

Leijona wrote: »

There are points, where I prefer ESO and there are points, where I prefer FFXIV.

FFXIV:

+ Stuff to do besides fighting (Chocobo-Races, Triple-Triad)
+ Housing
+ Great Raids in the end game content
+ Better fishing and crafting system
+ Good information policy from the producer
+ More group content even during leveling phase
+ Levelsync for FATEs, dungeons ...
+ Great group finder
+ Text chat on Console
- Combat system is good, but not what I prefer

ESO:

+ Combat is more what I prefer
+ Great story telling in the main quests
+ Setting is more what I prefer
+ I like most of the UI
+ Craglorn (yes, I like Craglorn)
- Not much to do besides fighting (steeling for ... no special purpose)
- Bad information policy
- Leveling phase way to easy
- No text chat on console
- Time between updates on PC and console is too long (compared with FFXIV, where they come at the same time for three systems)

Although it might seem, that FFXIV is way ahead for me, I still prefer to play ESO, mainly due to the both bold typed words, and therefor I just hope, that we will see more of the things, I love about FFXIV, especially the three bold typed words I love over there.

Thats pretty much it, it all just comes down to preference .

Roco32373 · July 2015

Which world (total world, including dungeons) is bigger??

FF14 feels a lot smaller to me...very claustrophobic with tunnels to walk in and invisible walls everywhere

Thoughts?

BBSooner · July 2015

Doflamingo wrote: »

the only reason ESO beats FFXIV is because FFXIV is still subscription, we live in 2015 and subscription in video games is unacceptable no matter what quality they have its an old payment model that noone wants, they should let you play for ffree and have an optional subscription for more bonuses. even though ESO is an Elder Scrolls, Final Fantasy is still a bigger LOT bigger franchise but subscription should die already

Not only is FFXIV better for having a subscription, ESO was better when subscriptions were providing content updates 1-4 in quick succession. Now, we get horse colors as content updates.

When it comes to class and player freedom, as well as overall story, ESO is my preference.

When it comes to quality of life tools, end-game, gear progression, grouping, polish, balance, and regularly released content FFXIV is my preference.

Honestly if they merged the games and just used ESO's combat and art-style, the merged game would be phenomenal. I'd be inclined to say the developer ratio between the two companies in the new game should be 4/5 FFXIV devs and 1/5 ESO devs.

Thumbdunked · July 2015

Roco32373 wrote: »

Which world (total world, including dungeons) is bigger??

FF14 feels a lot smaller to me...very claustrophobic with tunnels to walk in and invisible walls everywhere

Thoughts?

There are a few zones that are pretty small but they are mainly story areas. As a whole though each zone is probably only a little bit smaller than eso's counterparts, but the new areas that were put in with the expansion for FF14 are massive about 3x the size of the original zones and multi leveled.

KingKush · July 2015

Never played FFXIV but one thing I have noticed is that the playerbase seems a lot more satisfied than the player base of ESO. Eso's players are clearly not happy with the direction the game is heading and we have every right not to be as well. Now everytime I hear players talking about their experience with FFXIV, they always shed a positive light on the game. That in itself says something.

Roco32373 · July 2015

KingKush wrote: »

Never played FFXIV but one thing I have noticed is that the playerbase seems a lot more satisfied than the player base of ESO. Eso's players are clearly not happy with the direction the game is heading and we have every right not to be as well. Now everytime I hear players talking about their experience with FFXIV, they always shed a positive light on the game. That in itself says something.

I think this says it all. Well done, @KingKush

Callous2208 · July 2015

ESO is the best mmo I have played in over fifteen years with the genre.(Yes I know, you can laugh) It hits the key elements that I really enjoy with very little minor annoyances. FF14 was a very fun game in my opinion. Beautiful world, engaging story, lots of belles and whistles. However the combat being what it was, the standard tab target, wait for cd's, everyone do the same rotation or don't bother, got tiresome for me. Add in some other classic old school mmo stereotypes and I eventually just moved away from the game. To me the world, although beautiful, was a bit dead and didn't really encourage me to revisit any area or pay attention to the people and places around me. Although not as bad as in most mmo's the "grind" and rep type stuff got a bit annoying, and the sub was not a plus. I've subbed lots of games and over the years my opinion of subs has changed. Nowadays, to me anyway, there's just not enough difference in a quality b2p and sub title. F2p is a different story. I don't do the f2p's anymore lol.

Roco32373 · July 2015

Callous2208 wrote: »

ESO is the best mmo I have played in over fifteen years with the genre.(Yes I know, you can laugh) It hits the key elements that I really enjoy with very little minor annoyances. FF14 was a very fun game in my opinion. Beautiful world, engaging story, lots of belles and whistles. However the combat being what it was, the standard tab target, wait for cd's, everyone do the same rotation or don't bother, got tiresome for me. Add in some other classic old school mmo stereotypes and I eventually just moved away from the game. To me the world, although beautiful, was a bit dead and didn't really encourage me to revisit any area or pay attention to the people and places around me. Although not as bad as in most mmo's the "grind" and rep type stuff got a bit annoying, and the sub was not a plus. I've subbed lots of games and over the years my opinion of subs has changed. Nowadays, to me anyway, there's just not enough difference in a quality b2p and sub title. F2p is a different story. I don't do the f2p's anymore lol.

@Callous2208, are you happy with the devs and the direction the game is headed?

Tolmos · July 2015

Well, I mean, I'm here and not in FF14 so...

But yea, I loved FF14. Didn't leave because they did anything particularly wrong, just burned out on the entire tab-target gear-grind genre. I got 3 classes to level 50, a couple with 110 item level (the highest level + item level they had out at the time) aaaaaand that was all I could handle. I have not tried heavensward

- FF14 feels vastly more refined than ESO.
- Much less complaining than on ESO; there is complaining, but in comparison to what I've seen the players seem happier in 14 than here
- They did a good job with progression there. Nothing like the "Champion System" mucking things up.
- The main story is great. Best MMO main story I've seen
- Easily the best tab-target MMO combat I've played, especially for dungeons and raids. Tanking and healing are actually a challenge, and require the whole team to play correctly.
- PvP was garbage when I played it. I mean... yea. It's bad. An afterthought, at best. They tried, I give them that. Their PvE is top notch. But the PvP? Lawd. 100% number based, boring and just... bland. No skill involved, just who has the highest numbers. My gear had some of the highest numbers. That got boring.
- Gold saucer and Triple Triad. I did return to the game later to try again... I walked into gold saucer and never walked out. Literally. I never left after resubbing. I just played triple triad until the 1 month of sub I paid for ran out. If I resubbed, I'd do it again without hesitation or regret. If I had to recommend an MMO other than ESO to someone right now, it would be FF14 for the Gold Saucer.

- ESO's world feels much more alive. FF14's open world felt very static, minus FATEs and FATE grinding
- The side quests in this game feel as interesting as the main ones. Only the main story was worth your time on FF14... everything else was a "click through this quest quickly so we can to the next part"
- Everything in this game is voice acted. That's huge.
- Combat feels so much more enjoyable to me. FF14 may be the best tab-target game, IMO, but this one feels more active
- This feels... different. All around different. I like different. FF14 was predictable; it followed a lot of standards and a lot of tropes. This game does to an extent, but it also mixes things up enough that even a player like me who has been MMOing since UO in the late 90s can be like "Oh, hey that's cool. Didn't expect that". I can't express how rare that is...

All together, I feel like where ESO is now is starting to surpass FF14 for me. Things like the Champion system make me a little uncomfortable with the future of the game, and I'm a little worried about its longevity... but for right now, I'd pick ESO any day of the week.

Isarii · July 2015

Going to pass on diving into another subscription model debate, but as to the actual comparison, it really depends on what you're looking to get out of an MMO.

If you want a traditional MMO with traditional combat and great instanced PvE, FFXIV really is best in class, and that's why its players love it so much. The game's content release schedule is close to unparalleled, with new dungeons coming out insanely quickly, so if that's your thing, you really aren't going to find a better place to get it.

For me, well, that's not my thing. TESO didn't quite turn out to be my thing either, but it's a lot closer. It's a varied game with quite a bit of freedom (now, at least - this is something they've been gradually improving on over the last year), multiple game modes of interest, and most importantly (to me), PvP that's actually worth doing. Even though it's a buggy, horribly imbalanced, laggy mess, Cyrodiil still has one of the strongest foundations for a PvP system available in a modern MMO, and that's not even including how cool the Imperial City will be if it turns out anything like Darkness Falls.

I think the most interesting comparison to make is how both games have really reinvented themselves since their initial, disappointing launches. FFXIV's was far more drastic, with a complete relaunch as ARR, but both have made big changes, and I'm curious to see how far TESO's gradual re-imagining will go before we get to a mostly final form. The eventual removal of VR is going to be huge, and could go in a lot of different directions. Will we see tiered iLvls like in most MMOs, or will we get a flat gear system like GW2, with most of the game's statistical progression relegated to the Champion System (given that power gains between the two stack multiplicatively with each other, maybe flat would actually be a better choice, with new set bonuses being continually added to the game for horizontal gear progression, which GW2 lacks).

I'd say these are easily two of the top MMOs on the market right now, but their strengths are different enough that it's hard to compare them fairly. FFXIV is probably the better game - but it still isn't one that I find myself actually wanting to play.

FelixTheCatt · July 2015

Can't compare EsO to FF as I've never played the latter. Best summation I can come up with is I'd place it somewhere between Runescape and WoW. Much better than Runescape in scope and size. Quests , crafting much more interesting. Not anywhere near WoW as far as social aspect or size goes. Grinding , dailies and questing in general are very lacking but then any game is going to lack when you consider WoW has been out for 10 years.

EsO really seems like the only real alternative to a juggernaut such as Warcraft though. ZoS was smart enough to realize they really never going to directly compete with them. They wanted and do offer a nice alternative which is where I believe they wanted to find their niche. Some fine tuning and this could grow by leaps and bounds imo but they best hurry or they stand to lose players from the sounds from forum regs. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

Apologies but that's really the only two I could compare this to. I've not subbed to any others out there or have forgotten any others I might've tried.

Callous2208 · July 2015

@Roco32373 Hmm that's a tough question. I would say at this point I'm neither upset nor super ecstatic about the direction the game is heading. Just have a kind of wait and see attitude at the moment. I am enjoying what we have so far and try to remain optimistic this will continue to be a game in which I find enjoyment for years to come. I recently got into a heavy rp guild, something I never thought I'd do in all my years of gaming, and I've gotta say...changed my gaming life completely. Pretty much gives me instant long term replay-ability for as long as my imagination keeps firing on all cylinders.

Carde · July 2015

Well said @Isarii imho. I disagree in how far ESO has come since launch, but with things changing rapidly with staff right now it might be looking in the direction of a very bright horizon.

Isarii · July 2015

Carde wrote: »

Well said @Isarii imho. I disagree in how far ESO has come since launch, but with things changing rapidly with staff right now it might be looking in the direction of a very bright horizon.

We haven't come as far as ARR, but we're getting there. Hopefully with console-exclusive development slowing down (and certain promising staff changes), we'll see the game's evolution pick up a bit more steam.

Dradhok · July 2015

I really enjoyed ffxiv, the gameplay and UI are tight. Things like AH, txt chat, grouping system, story and pve are spot on. They started to lose me when they introduced their world boss system. It basically has you sit around for hours waiting for mobs to spawn. It bored me right out of the game, I need to be actively fighting to enjoy a game. I hope ESO can evolve quickly because it has been a nice change of pace.

Carde · July 2015

Dradhok wrote: »

I really enjoyed ffxiv, the gameplay and UI are tight. Things like AH, txt chat, grouping system, story and pve are spot on. They started to lose me when they introduced their world boss system. It basically has you sit around for hours waiting for mobs to spawn. It bored me right out of the game, I need to be actively fighting to enjoy a game. I hope ESO can evolve quickly because it has been a nice change of pace.

That's such a poor description of The Hunt system. :-p