Except what you fail to mention is that in previous ES games where this was the meta all the content scaled to your player level. So as you got stronger the world around you matched it.Cherryblossom wrote: »it also affects PVE, how do you create balanced new content. It will either be to easy for those with lots of CP or too hard for those without any!
That's not entirely true.
They'll release new content. New content exceeding the difficulty of the previous one. Anyone who was running the hardest content before the new one release can run the new one. Anyone who wasn't able to run to hardest content before the new one would not be able to run the new one.
You'd have to work you're way up to the hardest content. I remember when I couldn't finish Serenes Web because me and my team were weak but a few weeks later we gain some points and level and were able to finish it. I'm working my way up like any new player should. By the time i work my way up to the harder content i'll have a nice sum of points. And if content proves too difficult, i'll gain some more from do-able content.
Working my way up
Check out this comment http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1989961/#Comment_1989961, where I outline a progression that can do without verticality even in PVE. In truth, the whole idea of making your character and the environment stronger at the same time is totally idiotic. Think about it for a second. You don't get any real progression out of it, except for an illusion of power, and that low quality pleasure of being able to go back to one-shoot lower level mobs. But that is not the same sense of achievement that you get from being able to kill mobs quicker because you got better at executing your skills.
All this progression does is it linearizes exploration, because this way you have to do it in a certain order to match the content with your level. Essentially ZOS spent all this work on creating a huge and beautiful world that they sell as an open world, but the mechanics puts players on a leash and forces them on specific path. They are destroying the beautiful experience they worked so hard to create. It's absolutely idiotic.
Just give us an open world where all mobs are the same level (except for a few stronger ones - a troll should ALWAYS be stronger than a skeever, meeting a lvl 50 skeever that is much harder to kill than a lvl 25 troll is just ridiculous), and provide variety through good content and by giving us more and more skills to choose from, so that the progression will consist of trying out more and more ways to kill the monsters and finding the perfect playstyle for yourself.
If we had this purely open world that scaled at your player level the casuals would cry even more as they wouldn't be able to get past the first zone because they can't outlevel any content to make it easier. catch-22
Personally I agree with @guangui its an MMORPG and progression based. If you're not strong enough go back and work on your game. Git gud.....and come back to it later. This isn't the first game where this is the meta.
Jared_lindsey86_ESO wrote: »The filthy casuals are crying about the Champion points because it mean they have to actually play the game to get them.
bosmern_ESO wrote: »People that complain about them are bad at pvp and want to try and blame CP, because they're not the problem for being bad.
I think in a 1v30 no one would come out victorious lolTequilaFire wrote: »I still suck at 1v30 in PvP no matter how many CP I add.
bosmern_ESO wrote: »People that complain about them are bad at pvp and want to try and blame CP, because they're not the problem for being bad.
bosmern_ESO wrote: »People that complain about them are bad at pvp and want to try and blame CP, because they're not the problem for being bad.
It's the age old MMO whine, casual vs hardcore. The players that haven't put in the time and effort expecting to be on par with those that have been playing for over a year and/or those that are playing 8+ hours a day. Of course you are going to die to players that put in more time, you should.
bosmern_ESO wrote: »People that complain about them are bad at pvp and want to try and blame CP, because they're not the problem for being bad.
I've got an example for you: I run a pretty good PVP guild on XBox One. We usually walk over everyone, as long as they are roughly the same size group, even if they are a couple of vet ranks above us on average, and we usually had 5 out of 10 slots on the leaderboard on the non-vet campaign. We are all between lvl 40 and v2 now. The other day we went into an empty campaign that was dominated by yellow and planned to take it over. But we were kept in check by one guy (the emperor, v14) and a few of his friends (v1 - v5). We always killed all of his friends, but that one v14 repeatedly wiped our group - 15 to 20 of us. I am pretty sure that he is a pc transfer with quite a few Champion Points. But whether he is or not, this is a clear sign of a balancing problem. It should never be possible for one guy to kill 15 others who are working as well organized group, even if he is the emperor. On PC where everybody is v14, we take out emperors with 2 or 3 people, no problem. The result was that we simply left the campaign. If there wasn't another campaign to go to, we would have quit the game and fired up another one. I am very much looking forward to the upcoming extension of battle leveling.
I have often played against football players who were much better than me, and it was always a challenge I accepted. But the second a better player gets to put on a mech suit just for hanging out at the pitch for 3 weeks, I'd have taken my shoes and left.
It's the age old MMO whine, casual vs hardcore. The players that haven't put in the time and effort expecting to be on par with those that have been playing for over a year and/or those that are playing 8+ hours a day. Of course you are going to die to players that put in more time, you should.
It's the age old MMO whine, casual vs hardcore. The players that haven't put in the time and effort expecting to be on par with those that have been playing for over a year and/or those that are playing 8+ hours a day. Of course you are going to die to players that put in more time, you should.
Says who?
No other mmorpg has followed this route to make veteran players gods. Not for long at least. There is always a catch up mechanism.
It's the age old MMO whine, casual vs hardcore. The players that haven't put in the time and effort expecting to be on par with those that have been playing for over a year and/or those that are playing 8+ hours a day. Of course you are going to die to players that put in more time, you should.
Says who?
No other mmorpg has followed this route to make veteran players gods. Not for long at least. There is always a catch up mechanism.
It's the age old MMO whine, casual vs hardcore. The players that haven't put in the time and effort expecting to be on par with those that have been playing for over a year and/or those that are playing 8+ hours a day. Of course you are going to die to players that put in more time, you should.
Says who?
No other mmorpg has followed this route to make veteran players gods. Not for long at least. There is always a catch up mechanism.
Says me. Every game does it with just a different type of mechanism. Usually through armor/weapon progression. In this case the armor/weapon progression is minimal and the diffeerentiator is CP.
It's the age old MMO whine, casual vs hardcore. The players that haven't put in the time and effort expecting to be on par with those that have been playing for over a year and/or those that are playing 8+ hours a day. Of course you are going to die to players that put in more time, you should.
Please read my first comment in this thread. It's people like you who really get me fired up. If you are a hardcore player and you get to play the game for 50 hours every week, you will be a better player than a casual, because of YOUR skill as a player. Why do you need a mathematical advantage on top of it?
Good Counter-Strike players got 50 to 1 kill ratios on noobs, or even more. Do you think people would have played that game for so long if the good players would have also gotten stronger guns?
It's the age old MMO whine, casual vs hardcore. The players that haven't put in the time and effort expecting to be on par with those that have been playing for over a year and/or those that are playing 8+ hours a day. Of course you are going to die to players that put in more time, you should.
Please read my first comment in this thread. It's people like you who really get me fired up. If you are a hardcore player and you get to play the game for 50 hours every week, you will be a better player than a casual, because of YOUR skill as a player. Why do you need a mathematical advantage on top of it?
Good Counter-Strike players got 50 to 1 kill ratios on noobs, or even more. Do you think people would have played that game for so long if the good players would have also gotten stronger guns?
This isn't an ESO MMO problem, this is a you problem. You are expecting a different type of game than this type ofMMO. There always needs to be progression coupled with skill. This keeps interest (there has to be a grind). I am far from a hardcore player and am lucky if I average couple hours a day. I will never be ahead of even the average CP gain BUT i know that and I understand what type of game I am playing.
Jared_lindsey86_ESO wrote: »The filthy casuals are crying about the Champion points because it mean they have to actually play the game to get them.
It's the age old MMO whine, casual vs hardcore. The players that haven't put in the time and effort expecting to be on par with those that have been playing for over a year and/or those that are playing 8+ hours a day. Of course you are going to die to players that put in more time, you should.
Please read my first comment in this thread. It's people like you who really get me fired up. If you are a hardcore player and you get to play the game for 50 hours every week, you will be a better player than a casual, because of YOUR skill as a player. Why do you need a mathematical advantage on top of it?
Good Counter-Strike players got 50 to 1 kill ratios on noobs, or even more. Do you think people would have played that game for so long if the good players would have also gotten stronger guns?
I proposed this way back before the CS was released: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153790/in-cyrodiil-and-trials-disable-cs-limit-skill-points-and-scale-characters-to-v1
This is great. Why arent more people going for this and instead trying to change to whole CP system?
I proposed this way back before the CS was released: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153790/in-cyrodiil-and-trials-disable-cs-limit-skill-points-and-scale-characters-to-v1
This is great. Why arent more people going for this and instead trying to change to whole CP system?
because there's seemingly a great number of grinders who can't accept their time spent grinding was an utter waste of their life.
zenimax shouldn't be rewarding unhealthy playstyles
i'll continue to maintain cadwells granting VR10 is the main problem, everything else that came after just exacerbated it.
Cherryblossom wrote: »it also affects PVE, how do you create balanced new content. It will either be to easy for those with lots of CP or too hard for those without any!
That's not entirely true.
They'll release new content. New content exceeding the difficulty of the previous one. Anyone who was running the hardest content before the new one release can run the new one. Anyone who wasn't able to run to hardest content before the new one would not be able to run the new one.
You'd have to work you're way up to the hardest content. I remember when I couldn't finish Serenes Web because me and my team were weak but a few weeks later we gain some points and level and were able to finish it. I'm working my way up like any new player should. By the time i work my way up to the harder content i'll have a nice sum of points. And if content proves too difficult, i'll gain some more from do-able content.
Working my way up
Like Deltia said. It doesn't matter how much talent you have if the mathematical difference between the points are drastic. The only way you'd tackle a talented player fair would be if no one had the points in PvP. At least that's what makes most sense to me. .
All these people who believe the are so good might no be so good if everyone was on fair grounds in PvP hahah.
bosmern_ESO wrote: »People that complain about them are bad at pvp and want to try and blame CP, because they're not the problem for being bad.
I've got an example for you: I run a pretty good PVP guild on XBox One. We usually walk over everyone, as long as they are roughly the same size group, even if they are a couple of vet ranks above us on average, and we usually had 5 out of 10 slots on the leaderboard on the non-vet campaign. We are all between lvl 40 and v2 now. The other day we went into an empty campaign that was dominated by yellow and planned to take it over. But we were kept in check by one guy (the emperor, v14) and a few of his friends (v1 - v5). We always killed all of his friends, but that one v14 repeatedly wiped our group - 15 to 20 of us. I am pretty sure that he is a pc transfer with quite a few Champion Points. But whether he is or not, this is a clear sign of a balancing problem. It should never be possible for one guy to kill 15 others who are working as well organized group, even if he is the emperor. On PC where everybody is v14, we take out emperors with 2 or 3 people, no problem. The result was that we simply left the campaign. If there wasn't another campaign to go to, we would have quit the game and fired up another one. I am very much looking forward to the upcoming extension of battle leveling.
I have often played against football players who were much better than me, and it was always a challenge I accepted. But the second a better player gets to put on a mech suit just for hanging out at the pitch for 3 weeks, I'd have taken my shoes and left.
TequilaFire wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »People that complain about them are bad at pvp and want to try and blame CP, because they're not the problem for being bad.
I've got an example for you: I run a pretty good PVP guild on XBox One. We usually walk over everyone, as long as they are roughly the same size group, even if they are a couple of vet ranks above us on average, and we usually had 5 out of 10 slots on the leaderboard on the non-vet campaign. We are all between lvl 40 and v2 now. The other day we went into an empty campaign that was dominated by yellow and planned to take it over. But we were kept in check by one guy (the emperor, v14) and a few of his friends (v1 - v5). We always killed all of his friends, but that one v14 repeatedly wiped our group - 15 to 20 of us. I am pretty sure that he is a pc transfer with quite a few Champion Points. But whether he is or not, this is a clear sign of a balancing problem. It should never be possible for one guy to kill 15 others who are working as well organized group, even if he is the emperor. On PC where everybody is v14, we take out emperors with 2 or 3 people, no problem. The result was that we simply left the campaign. If there wasn't another campaign to go to, we would have quit the game and fired up another one. I am very much looking forward to the upcoming extension of battle leveling.
I have often played against football players who were much better than me, and it was always a challenge I accepted. But the second a better player gets to put on a mech suit just for hanging out at the pitch for 3 weeks, I'd have taken my shoes and left.
delete double post
TequilaFire wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »People that complain about them are bad at pvp and want to try and blame CP, because they're not the problem for being bad.
I've got an example for you: I run a pretty good PVP guild on XBox One. We usually walk over everyone, as long as they are roughly the same size group, even if they are a couple of vet ranks above us on average, and we usually had 5 out of 10 slots on the leaderboard on the non-vet campaign. We are all between lvl 40 and v2 now. The other day we went into an empty campaign that was dominated by yellow and planned to take it over. But we were kept in check by one guy (the emperor, v14) and a few of his friends (v1 - v5). We always killed all of his friends, but that one v14 repeatedly wiped our group - 15 to 20 of us. I am pretty sure that he is a pc transfer with quite a few Champion Points. But whether he is or not, this is a clear sign of a balancing problem. It should never be possible for one guy to kill 15 others who are working as well organized group, even if he is the emperor. On PC where everybody is v14, we take out emperors with 2 or 3 people, no problem. The result was that we simply left the campaign. If there wasn't another campaign to go to, we would have quit the game and fired up another one. I am very much looking forward to the upcoming extension of battle leveling.
I have often played against football players who were much better than me, and it was always a challenge I accepted. But the second a better player gets to put on a mech suit just for hanging out at the pitch for 3 weeks, I'd have taken my shoes and left.
I proposed this way back before the CS was released: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153790/in-cyrodiil-and-trials-disable-cs-limit-skill-points-and-scale-characters-to-v1
I like that idea. Would have made veteran levels 0 issue for me as well as I could just play the single player content at my leisure and level up without a care while still being able to go to Cyrodiil and not be determined as fodder regardless of how well I play.