Imperial City will kill PvP

qsnoopyjr · July 2015

Bromburak wrote: »

Games have similarities, music does , cars have 99% the same design etc..
Human feel comfy with habits and proven concepts.

But that doesn't mean existing concepts cannot be improved.

So what are you trying to tell us?

WoW is the only game to outshine a shining game.

Ok, so you are a Blizzard customer. What else is important to know?

I have never played World of Warcraft.

Games I've played,
Runescape
Everquest
Guild Wars 2

If its 6 home keeps.
It's impossible for all 3 alliances to be inside Cyrodiil too.
There's 3 keeps shared.
If one alliance has all 6 of those home keeps. The other 2 alliances are missing 1 of their 6 home keeps.

Bromburak · July 2015

Just because you stayed up all night. Told the best to leave so you're highest ranked... Got your Emperor title..
Doesn't mean jack.. You cant do that in GW2.. You have to actually be the best to have the best titles.

Hilarious, being best at something in GW2? You are really funny dude.

A world full of leeching noobs hiding behind night raids or using time zone advantages just to stay in the "leader boards for WvW" and they have ZERO commitment to a faction because their world is only a piece of hardware, a server and those hoppers keep on changing it for winning. GW2 is the worst RvR/AvA/WvW fake ever.

IxSTALKERxI · July 2015

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

If its 6 home keeps.
It's impossible for all 3 alliances to be inside Cyrodiil too.
There's 3 keeps shared.
If one alliance has all 6 of those home keeps. The other 2 alliances are missing 1 of their 6 home keeps.

Huh? Each alliance has it's own 6 home keeps.

Off the top of my head it's as follows:

AD= Bloodmayne, Blackboot, Faregyl, Roebeck, Alessia, Brindle.
DC= Rayles, Warden, Glademist, Ash, Aleswell, Dragonclaw
EP= Farragut, Kingscrest, Arrius, Chalman, BRK, Drakelowe

Wreuntzylla · July 2015

DAoC was dead in the grave long before GW2 came along. Trials of Drive Everyone Away made sure of that. Glad that guy isn't working on this game....

Sharee · July 2015

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

DAoC was dead in the grave long before GW2 came along. Trials of Drive Everyone Away made sure of that. Glad that guy isn't working on this game....

Actually i really liked trials of atlantis. Loved the underwater exploration, and especially the fact that the trials themselves were not instanced, so you had these huge raids being organized by guilds that anyone could attend, and the more people the merrier. Good memories.

Wreuntzylla · July 2015

Your liking it doesn't change the fact that it killed the game.

ToA was beautifully done but terribly executed. Within two months of its release, the consolidation process began...

Bromburak · July 2015

At least here, we don't want this to happen with AvA in ESO.
Fix campaigns and redesign the pvp objectives, Emp changes several times the day and scrolls
are raided way too easy because raiding is a joke right now.

Cyrodiil needs improvement and players really need to be committed more to their faction.
This hopping needs to stop while campaigns are running, combined with Imp city it could be an amazing game experience again.

Sharee · July 2015

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Your liking it doesn't change the fact that it killed the game.

Not really. I played for years after TOA was released, and the game was far from dead. It is still running to this day, in fact.
There was a lot of whining on the forums about it tho, i'll give you that. Kinda like the hate train for TESO after release...

cazlonb16_ESO · July 2015

Bromburak wrote: »

A world full of leeching noobs hiding behind night raids or using time zone advantages just to stay in the "leader boards for WvW" and they have ZERO commitment to a faction because their world is only a piece of hardware, a server and those hoppers keep on changing it for winning.

And that's different from ESO in what way, exactly ?

We see that exact same behaviour with all the faction/campaign hoppers here, not to even mention nightcapping.

PS: Warhammer combined RvR and small PvP maps into a domination system leading to a capture of the enemy's capital city. That capital city being a massive PvE grind was one of the reasons for the game's downfall.

So I'm not sure what that comment about ESO being the only RvR game with former Mythic devs is all about.

ToRelax · July 2015

"Update 2.1 is going to be much bigger than expected and we sadly weren't able to implement the PvP component of the imperial city in this update, it will follow with the next one. Sorry!"

Aunatar wrote: »

The 6 home keeps aren't the emperor ones.
They are Drakelowe, Arrius, Farragut, Kingcrests, Chalman for the Pact, then Aleswell, Rayles, Glademist, Brindle, Dragonclaw for DC, the rest for AD.
So we will be able to enter the I.C. at the same time with other alliances.

So Ash and BRK belong to AD. That explains a lot...

Bromburak · July 2015

cazlonb16_ESO wrote:

And that's different from ESO in what way, exactly ?

The requirement for such PvP modes is 3 factions.

The core architecture and heartbeat of Realm vs. Realm concepts are specific PvP objectives that are possible because DAOC had Albion, Hibernia and Midgard and ESO has Aldmeri Dominion, Daggerfall Covenant and Ebonheart.

This system and user experience cannot be faked by Server 1, Server 2, Server 3 like its being done in GW2.

The strength of such concepts is that players are committed to their faction and fight together for their objectives. And yes, there also a weak points in ESO because alliance hopping is still possible while campaigns are running. They have improved it but Imo still room for improvement.

MoeCoastie · July 2015

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

LoL

Yall saying they copied DAoC?
That game was a JOKE!
The Underworld system, big idea came from GW.

What you guys are saying is... The whole turret defense game... Started off with StarCraft (USED MAP SETTINGS, Taco Bell, and others)....
But what I'm saying what REALLY made it shine was League of Legends.
Just like how the Underworld system REALLY shined in GW... NOT DAoC.

Just LIKE World vs World.. SHINED in GW2... Not in EvE or any of those other CHUMP CHANGE games.

Yall must be on of those.. Ultima Online started the whole rise to MMO's.... Nah that was Everquest. Everquest is when it truly shined..

WoW is the only game to outshine a shining game.

I don't give a hoot if these developers came from DAoC... All they'll understand is that GUILD WARS #### em up when they was working for DAoC...
Now GW2 is #### em up while they work on TESO.

..
GW2 already hosts an annual PvP #esports championship for $$$ BIG $$$.
Already steps ahead of TESO.

If GW2 can afford to spend $$$ on PvP championships, its winning.. Bug free too might I add. GW2 afford to make NEW WvW/AvA battleground... PvP maps... LIVING WORD CONTENT (new content like 5 new zones FREE). Coming out with an expansion STRONG (Living world hyped up its expansion Hearts of Thorn).

Don't tell me this makes TESO drool with jealously and wants to mimic GW2 every move.
GW2 has dodge roll? We must implement that too!!!
GW2 has 3 way world vs world battle? WE must implement that too!!
GW2 has gem store?? WE need that too!!
GW2 has small scale PvP?? Too much work.
GW2 has living storylines?? Too much work.
GW2 improved there LFG system so people like it now? Too much work.
GW2 has a consistent GOOD twitch feeds and PvP community and tournaments? Too much work for (us players).

TESO is like narrow minded locked on GW2 right now. Probably because they lost the DAoC vs GW battle.

Deteled my previous comment because it just dawned on me this guy is just joking..LOL..haha, you got me! LOL

MoeCoastie · July 2015

Bromburak wrote: »

cazlonb16_ESO wrote:

And that's different from ESO in what way, exactly ?

The requirement for such PvP modes is 3 factions.

The core architecture and heartbeat of Realm vs. Realm concepts are specific PvP objectives that are possible because DAOC had Albion, Hibernia and Midgard and ESO has Aldmeri Dominion, Daggerfall Covenant and Ebonheart.

This system and user experience cannot be faked by Server 1, Server 2, Server 3 like its being done in GW2.

The strength of such concepts is that players are committed to their faction and fight together for their objectives. And yes, there also a weak points in ESO because alliance hopping is still possible while campaigns are running. They have improved it but Imo still room for improvement.

I agree...enjoying this type of pvp requires the player-base to buy into the whole AvA/RvR concept and requires a bit of RP elements.

This is evident when you ask people who have played DAoC and Warhammer. The common theme you will hear is that they enjoyed the community. Game mechanics will be flawed, balancing issues will exist forever, and those games were never hardcore enough for the hardcore gamer/esport athlete.

Armitas · July 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Just to keep this short and sweet from what I understand your Alliance needs to hold Emp to gain access to The Imperial City but It will be mostly PvE if not all PvE so once an Emperor is crowned all the PvEers will flood to Cyrodiil to both explore and after they play all the content Role Play in the City till the Emp is dethroned with PvE focused gear and powers not being as good in AvAvA they may not even help hold Emp. But no matter if they do or do not they will still take up a space in the Q for PvPer who can only PvP in this one Zone.

So basically this will be like buff servers on steroids. Great, glad they are fixing the whole buff server thing by feeding it a different reason to be a server dedicated to PvE. edit. Oh the home keeps. Not as bad, but we will have buff servers for certain in so far as the home keeps are concerned.

qsnoopyjr · July 2015

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

DAoC was dead in the grave long before GW2 came along. Trials of Drive Everyone Away made sure of that. Glad that guy isn't working on this game....

Ya True.
Unfortunately, GW ran its Halls of Heroes system better than DAoC... Managed to get 7 years strong until the company went ahead and made GW2, giving it a death not due to being a bad game like DAoC but due to an upgrade.. Going MMO, which it cannot do itself so it made GW2.

Bromburak wrote: »

Cyrodiil needs improvement and players really need to be committed more to their faction.
This hopping needs to stop while campaigns are running, combined with Imp city it could be an amazing game experience again.

Yup, but what Cyrodiil needs is more commitment to a server as well..
Too many server hopping guilds hopping away from the competition and trying to find the easiest server to play on.
Right now Azura Star is packed all because a bunch of guilds couldn't handle the fierce competition on Chillrend... So they went to Azura. Sooner or later some other server will get flooded. My guess is Thornblade is next.

BTW,
My earlier comment about titles, wasn't necessarily directed towards GW2 WvW.. It was directed towards GW2 tPvP system. If you guys followed me, you'd know I dislike WvW/AvA.. I'm more of an Open World PvP fan and prefer small scale over this zergfest any day.

Solve problem to zergfest? Open world PvP. Look at games with Open World PvP you don't seen them complaining about people zerging. You don't have a bunch of people looking for a zerg in chat either, its more guild based.

Also, as far as games following other games.. You know like TESO following GW2.
I'm liking the direction EQNext is going. Being unique MMORPG adding the Minecraft to the MMORPG, where you build your stuff wherever whenever. And knowing EQ they are fans of Open World PvP.
When EQNext gets released you know where I'll be at.

FireCowCommando · July 2015

3 campaigns will be the new buff servers, where each faction gets an easy path to IC, one will be pvp, and the non vet will still be the best.

Docmandu · July 2015

Posts like these are silly, since we know so little of what IC will actually be. I'll hold judgement until 13th july when they start to discuss some of it.

BRogueNZ · July 2015

From what I gather if you want regular AvAvA pvp in the city you essentially have to allow everybody to have their home keeps to fill it up again or you will just run out of enemies.

I get see the proverbial hitting the fan already.

Pirhana7_ESO · July 2015

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

Imperial City is the concept from Guild Wars... The Underworld.

I keep telling you guys, TESO just keeps on trying to copycat GW.

What other game has the dodgeroll concept.. Oh ya GW2.
What other game is heavily WvW? Oh ya GW2.

This is, this game is missing stuff Guild Wars has.
Like living story
Like tpvp
Like a gem store with stuff actually worth buying

But again, the whole cyrodiil only open when your winning PvP..
Nothing but same concept GW runs with Underworld ONLY being open to particular world when they control the Halls of Heroes.

Also, highly doubt it will boot you out when you lose 1 of the 6 central keeps.. Its hard has heck to hold all of them....
Yall must not PvP or something because... You still are emperor all you need to do is ensure you don't lose access to 1 of those 6 central keeps AFTER you get crowned emperor.

Actually Cyrodiil is the EXACT same set up as the Fronteirs in Darkage of Camelot. The IMP City uses the EXACT same setup as Darkness Falls from Darkage of Camelot. That game came out 15 years ago. The head dev from ESO cam from Mythic who created Darkage of Camelot.

GW2 personally said their WvW was a slightly different version of Darkage of Camelot Realm vs Realm system.

Anyways the concept of Darkness Falls (Imp City) worked very well and made the PVP system better. When the winning side gains control of the Imp City they will "lose" many player on the battle field in Cyrodiil because they will go to the Imp City. Eventually that sad will not be able to keep hold of what they have in Cyrodiil, not only because many of their players went to the Imp City but because both the enemy alliances are now attacking them. Then another alliance will gain control of the Imp City and so the circle will continue.

Darkness Falls (Imp City) was one of the best balancing tools for PVP that was ever added to the game.

Pirhana7_ESO · July 2015

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

DAoC was dead in the grave long before GW2 came along. Trials of Drive Everyone Away made sure of that. Glad that guy isn't working on this game....

Ya True.
Unfortunately, GW ran its Halls of Heroes system better than DAoC... Managed to get 7 years strong until the company went ahead and made GW2, giving it a death not due to being a bad game like DAoC but due to an upgrade.. Going MMO, which it cannot do itself so it made GW2.

Bromburak wrote: »

Cyrodiil needs improvement and players really need to be committed more to their faction.
This hopping needs to stop while campaigns are running, combined with Imp city it could be an amazing game experience again.

Yup, but what Cyrodiil needs is more commitment to a server as well..
Too many server hopping guilds hopping away from the competition and trying to find the easiest server to play on.
Right now Azura Star is packed all because a bunch of guilds couldn't handle the fierce competition on Chillrend... So they went to Azura. Sooner or later some other server will get flooded. My guess is Thornblade is next.

BTW,
My earlier comment about titles, wasn't necessarily directed towards GW2 WvW.. It was directed towards GW2 tPvP system. If you guys followed me, you'd know I dislike WvW/AvA.. I'm more of an Open World PvP fan and prefer small scale over this zergfest any day.

Solve problem to zergfest? Open world PvP. Look at games with Open World PvP you don't seen them complaining about people zerging. You don't have a bunch of people looking for a zerg in chat either, its more guild based.

Also, as far as games following other games.. You know like TESO following GW2.
I'm liking the direction EQNext is going. Being unique MMORPG adding the Minecraft to the MMORPG, where you build your stuff wherever whenever. And knowing EQ they are fans of Open World PvP.
When EQNext gets released you know where I'll be at.

You should look into Camelot Unchained, Alot of us are waiting for it and its about a year out.

Think Cyrodiil but 5 X larger and its the whole world map. They have an actual Crafter class that is responsible for all the gear in the game as well as building everything from roads, to house, to seige weapons, to keeps and they use a cube block building system similiar to mine craft. everything can be destoyeed by enemy alliance players. its a 3 faction battle to try to reclaim camalot in the center of the map. Each side has its own races and classes. Progression comes only from RVR but the PVE lore and creatures will be there for hunting and materials. Its a very slow / long term progression system where you pvp from the start.

Bromburak · July 2015

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

LoL

Yall saying they copied DAoC?
That game was a JOKE!

Interesting:

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

Games I've played,
Runescape
Everquest
Guild Wars 2

rikimm16_ESO · July 2015

Bromburak wrote: »

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

LoL

Yall saying they copied DAoC?
That game was a JOKE!

Interesting:

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

Games I've played,
Runescape
Everquest
Guild Wars 2

Nice!

Docmandu · July 2015

I hope you guys have more skills in PvP than in detecting trolls.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · July 2015

no it wont
emp will be flipping more since the alliance with emp will have less people in cyro (since alot will be in imp city) and then other alliance can take emp, kill whats left over of the original alliance in IC, and the cycle repeats

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · September 2015

Called it way back in July

Lucky28 · September 2015

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

A world full of leeching noobs hiding behind night raids or using time zone advantages just to stay in the "leader boards for WvW" and they have ZERO commitment to a faction because their world is only a piece of hardware, a server and those hoppers keep on changing it for winning.

And that's different from ESO in what way, exactly ?

We see that exact same behaviour with all the faction/campaign hoppers here, not to even mention nightcapping.

I don't really think Nightcapping should be brought up as a legitimate gripe. I mean, i know quite a few players who play on the NA server who live in Australia and Japan and also some who work at nights. it's not "nightcapping" for them it's just their prime-time. *shrugs*

Yolokin_Swagonborn · September 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

If one whole year of neglect, miserable balance changes, miserable gear, single digit framerates, and no response to exploits/cheating didn't kill this game, then the imperial city wont either.

It will continue to be Mediocre Scrolls Online.

nah I totally called it. Thanks for the thread necro. we will see which one of us is right now

That being said, all those doubt apologists that say "we dont know enough to judge yet" need to be smacked with a shovel.

Yeah we knew this would have a negative effect on PvP. So you were right about that. Its not enough to kill the game tho. game will keep limping along in a gutter of mediocrity.

Soris · September 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

"Update 2.1 is going to be much bigger than expected and we sadly weren't able to implement the PvP component of the imperial city in this update, it will follow with the next one. Sorry!"

Aunatar wrote: »

The 6 home keeps aren't the emperor ones.
They are Drakelowe, Arrius, Farragut, Kingcrests, Chalman for the Pact, then Aleswell, Rayles, Glademist, Brindle, Dragonclaw for DC, the rest for AD.
So we will be able to enter the I.C. at the same time with other alliances.

So Ash and BRK belong to AD. That explains a lot...

Of course. Drake and Brindle belong to AD as well. The rest is distributed between plebs and barbarians of north.

frozywozy · September 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

If one whole year of neglect, miserable balance changes, miserable gear, single digit framerates, and no response to exploits/cheating didn't kill this game, then the imperial city wont either.

It will continue to be Mediocre Scrolls Online.

nah I totally called it. Thanks for the thread necro. we will see which one of us is right now

That being said, all those doubt apologists that say "we dont know enough to judge yet" need to be smacked with a shovel.

Yeah we knew this would have a negative effect on PvP. So you were right about that. Its not enough to kill the game tho. game will keep limping along in a gutter of mediocrity.

What kill the game is much more negative and pessimist attitudes likes yours, not the game itself.

Poxheart · September 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

If one whole year of neglect, miserable balance changes, miserable gear, single digit framerates, and no response to exploits/cheating didn't kill this game, then the imperial city wont either.

It will continue to be Mediocre Scrolls Online.

nah I totally called it. Thanks for the thread necro. we will see which one of us is right now

That being said, all those doubt apologists that say "we dont know enough to judge yet" need to be smacked with a shovel.

Yeah we knew this would have a negative effect on PvP. So you were right about that. Its not enough to kill the game tho. game will keep limping along in a gutter of mediocrity.

What kill the game is much more negative and pessimist attitudes likes yours, not the game itself.

Which came first, the negative and pessimist attitudes or the consistently poor decisions by ZoS?