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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Champion Points Catch Up Mechanic Concept
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MaximumAttackG✭✭✭MaximumAttackG wrote: »seriously, who gives a **** about PvP balance? id hate for them to let players just jump ahead, when there's people who dedicate serious time.
What you people need to do is git gud.
I really dont care if you work 18 hours a day and cant find time to play and want a little boost ahead. go play something else, mmos are suppose to be massive time sinks and if people are constantly equal then screw that, I dont wanna play. you gotta work to be a beast, in life and in video games. just like life is unfair and unbalanced so should eso! haha
This is the type of attitude that is killing the game.
I disagree, its the attitude that rids games of whiny entitled gamers.2 -
Yinmaigao✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximumAttackG wrote: »MaximumAttackG wrote: »seriously, who gives a **** about PvP balance? id hate for them to let players just jump ahead, when there's people who dedicate serious time.
What you people need to do is git gud.
I really dont care if you work 18 hours a day and cant find time to play and want a little boost ahead. go play something else, mmos are suppose to be massive time sinks and if people are constantly equal then screw that, I dont wanna play. you gotta work to be a beast, in life and in video games. just like life is unfair and unbalanced so should eso! haha
This is the type of attitude that is killing the game.
I disagree, its the attitude that rids games of whiny entitled gamers.
Sounds like whining to me about new players to the game having a chance to make it to 50% of where the top players are.
It''s all a matter of perspective. Creating a toxic gaming environment is bad for everyone in the long run.4 -
MaximumAttackG✭✭✭Reading this thread, and others about balance in pvp, I now fully understand that I am not nor will I ever be a mmo guy. You guys really just want the game to be about who can play the longest, and on that basis a guy like me who works for a living and has responsibilities that prevent playing more than twenty hours a week I do not have an equal opportunity in the game.
The worst part of all this? I bought a game with capped levels I was sure to eventually attain. It was something I found appealing. God forbid winning a fight should ever be about skill and ability. It isn't what MMO gamers enjoy.
I am still an Elder Scrolls guy. I always will be.
There's a difference, a vast one, between "casual" gamers, and lazy gamers, btw... When I say casual, I am referring to the hours I am able to play.
If the catchup thing is too distressing for everyone who is already leaps and bounds ahead, how about the idea of campaigns for people with less than a certain amount of cp's as an option? Even cp free? I really can't see how that would not fix this concern people have about champion points. I currently have 85 or so champion points. I have no way to get them faster unless I quit my job... Which I am obviously not going to do.... And abandon my family (not happening, no matter how great the game is). People have 2-3 times that already. A lot of people. How tempting will PVP be for me in six months when I have doubled that and many people are closer to 1000? This is the concern I and several other players are trying to get across now that the problem has been compounded by xp boosters casuals can only get through purchases.
honestly its all competition, id hate for someone to think they're better or equal when ive spent more time, mmos often do require skill, aswell as time. eso is more on the casual side, but I still like to strive to have a better character then everyone else, story, quests, dialog.. its all meh to me, give me fun fights, loots, a monetary system and im good to go for years on an mmo.0 -
Dru1076✭✭✭✭MaximumAttackG wrote: »seriously, who gives a **** about PvP balance? id hate for them to let players just jump ahead, when there's people who dedicate serious time.
What you people need to do is git gud.
I really dont care if you work 18 hours a day and cant find time to play and want a little boost ahead. go play something else, mmos are suppose to be massive time sinks and if people are constantly equal then screw that, I dont wanna play. you gotta work to be a beast, in life and in video games. just like life is unfair and unbalanced so should eso! haha
This is the type of attitude that is killing the game.
It certainly doesn't help.
But there are nice people playing ESO too, and just one nice person makes up for 100 maximumattacks.
MaximumAttackG wrote: »MaximumAttackG wrote: »seriously, who gives a **** about PvP balance? id hate for them to let players just jump ahead, when there's people who dedicate serious time.
What you people need to do is git gud.
I really dont care if you work 18 hours a day and cant find time to play and want a little boost ahead. go play something else, mmos are suppose to be massive time sinks and if people are constantly equal then screw that, I dont wanna play. you gotta work to be a beast, in life and in video games. just like life is unfair and unbalanced so should eso! haha
This is the type of attitude that is killing the game.
I disagree, its the attitude that rids games of whiny entitled gamers.
Sounds like whining to me about new players to the game having a chance to make it to 50% of where the top players are.
It''s all a matter of perspective. Creating a toxic gaming environment is bad for everyone in the long run.
Well put.Ask not what your sweetroll can do for you....1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MaximumAttackG wrote: »MaximumAttackG wrote: »seriously, who gives a **** about PvP balance? id hate for them to let players just jump ahead, when there's people who dedicate serious time.
What you people need to do is git gud.
I really dont care if you work 18 hours a day and cant find time to play and want a little boost ahead. go play something else, mmos are suppose to be massive time sinks and if people are constantly equal then screw that, I dont wanna play. you gotta work to be a beast, in life and in video games. just like life is unfair and unbalanced so should eso! haha
This is the type of attitude that is killing the game.
I disagree, its the attitude that rids games of whiny entitled gamers.
Sounds like whining to me about new players to the game having a chance to make it to 50% of where the top players are.
It''s all a matter of perspective. Creating a toxic gaming environment is bad for everyone in the long run.
There is a difference between having a chance and having things handed to you others are required to play to get. This isnt about new players. New players wont even see CP for a long time. Fact is as in life MMO life is not always fair. There will always be someone who has more time than you do. Sometimes you just have to grow up, put your big boy pants on and accept the fact you wont always be equal with everyone else.0 -
Denaia✭✭✭✭Fact is.. a game needs new people to survive, if these new players will have to get 1000+ cp to be slightly compettive no new players will join the game.
No new players = no money, no money = no game.3 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fact is.. a game needs new people to survive, if these new players will have to get 1000+ cp to be slightly compettive no new players will join the game.
No new players = no money, no money = no game.
Sorry but this is only your opinion and not backed up by any factual data whatsoever. The game is selling almost as well on PC right now as it did when it launched. Been in the top 10 best sellers at gamestop for a while now. Nevermind the millions of console players.
New players wont even worry about CP until lvl 50. They are introducing battle leveling for vet ranks sometime soon. That will make a huge difference. Fact is tho people who invest more time and more effort will reap more rewards. Thats just how the game works.
I can also attest the game is very healthy as far as new players. I spend some time helping new players each week with crafted items and maybe even some gold etc. There are a ton of new people coming into the game. So dont worry there will be plenty of new people.0 -
MaximumAttackG✭✭✭Wtf is wrong with new players being behind? if theres content for them to play till they catch up, then what's seriously the problem? oh I know, everyone wants to be a big bad hard *** in cyrodiil right off the bat, or show off. aye, play the game and earn it. its not impossible to catch up to players at end game, it realllllllyyyy isnt.Edited by MaximumAttackG on June 23, 2015 10:42AM1
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Yinmaigao✭✭✭✭✭
✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »MaximumAttackG wrote: »MaximumAttackG wrote: »seriously, who gives a **** about PvP balance? id hate for them to let players just jump ahead, when there's people who dedicate serious time.
What you people need to do is git gud.
I really dont care if you work 18 hours a day and cant find time to play and want a little boost ahead. go play something else, mmos are suppose to be massive time sinks and if people are constantly equal then screw that, I dont wanna play. you gotta work to be a beast, in life and in video games. just like life is unfair and unbalanced so should eso! haha
This is the type of attitude that is killing the game.
I disagree, its the attitude that rids games of whiny entitled gamers.
Sounds like whining to me about new players to the game having a chance to make it to 50% of where the top players are.
It''s all a matter of perspective. Creating a toxic gaming environment is bad for everyone in the long run.
There is a difference between having a chance and having things handed to you others are required to play to get. This isnt about new players. New players wont even see CP for a long time. Fact is as in life MMO life is not always fair. There will always be someone who has more time than you do. Sometimes you just have to grow up, put your big boy pants on and accept the fact you wont always be equal with everyone else.
Perhaps you didn't actually read the thread, but I will clear it up since there is some confusion.
Noone is asking for handouts, ZoS has already stated that they are going to lower the xp required for the first "x" champion points to lessen the gap. They did NOT say "get to vet14, and here are 400 champ points on us!". Many players are just trying to come up with a flexible algorithm to keep this balance dynamic.
On another note, the people who are usually the biggest advocates of "greater investment should equal greater power" argue that having more time to play means they should be stronger, and that they don't care if it isn't fair. However, these same people are the loudest opponents of P2W. But I challenge that it is a matter of semantics. One player invests time, the other money.
WhIle I don't think either extreme is good for the game, it is funny to me to see how fast people get spun up when you ask them to look at their own argument after changing one word ;D
Maybe the game would be more fun if you worried less about what other players were doing, and just played the game.
Edited for spellingEdited by Yinmaigao on June 23, 2015 10:49AM0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »The Champion Point system is fine as it is. Those who have been playing for a long time have more than someone who just started. Just like I have millions more gold than someone who just started, and I have hundreds more skill points than someone who just started. That's the way it is.
New players should have no expectation of installing the game and instantly be at the level of players who have been playing for years.
It is? The thread on this forum would suggest otherwise.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/search?adv=&search=Fix+CP&title=&author=&cat=all&tags=&discussion_d=1&discussion_question=1&discussion_poll=1&comment_c=1&comment_answer=1&within=1+day&date=
And most of those threads were started by and posted in by whiners and lazy individuals that don't want to put in the time to earn the CP like everyone else has. Just like all the threads whining about veteran ranks because players don't want to put in the time. Nothing is wrong with either system. People are just plain lazy.
Spends all their time sitting on their arse playing game because sick, schoolkid, retired or unemployed...calls people doing life stuff like REAL WORK to pay bills lazy.
Nice.
The only way this game prospers is if it caters to the majority.
Which are neither the no-timers or the no-lifers...but somewhere in the middle.Edited by Rune_Relic on June 23, 2015 10:57AMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited1 -
MaximumAttackG✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »MaximumAttackG wrote: »MaximumAttackG wrote: »seriously, who gives a **** about PvP balance? id hate for them to let players just jump ahead, when there's people who dedicate serious time.
What you people need to do is git gud.
I really dont care if you work 18 hours a day and cant find time to play and want a little boost ahead. go play something else, mmos are suppose to be massive time sinks and if people are constantly equal then screw that, I dont wanna play. you gotta work to be a beast, in life and in video games. just like life is unfair and unbalanced so should eso! haha
This is the type of attitude that is killing the game.
I disagree, its the attitude that rids games of whiny entitled gamers.
Sounds like whining to me about new players to the game having a chance to make it to 50% of where the top players are.
It''s all a matter of perspective. Creating a toxic gaming environment is bad for everyone in the long run.
There is a difference between having a chance and having things handed to you others are required to play to get. This isnt about new players. New players wont even see CP for a long time. Fact is as in life MMO life is not always fair. There will always be someone who has more time than you do. Sometimes you just have to grow up, put your big boy pants on and accept the fact you wont always be equal with everyone else.
Perhaps you didn't actually read the thread, but I will clear it up since there is some confusion.
Noone is asking for handouts, ZoS has already stated that they are going to lower the xp required for the first "x" champion points to lessen the gap. They did NOT say "get to vet14, and here are 400 champ points on us!". Many players are just trying to come up with a flexible algorithm to keep this balance dynamic.
On another note, the people who are usually the biggest advocates of "greater investment should equal greater power". However, these same people are the loudest opponents of P2W. But I challenge that it is a matter of semantics. One player invests time, the other money.
WhIle I don't think either extreme is good for the game, it is funny to me to see how fast people get spun up when you ask them to look at their own argument after changing one word ;D
Maybe the game would be more fun if you worried less about what other players were doing, and just played the game.
good god.. go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure. mmos are about time, when someone dedicates time to something and you see someone else who got to catch up easier and in less time because they want the game to circle around how much game time they have, does that not warrant some frustration about a gap closer for the vet player?1 -
Dru1076✭✭✭✭MaximumAttackG wrote: »Wtf is wrong with new players being behind? if theres content for them to play till they catch up, then what's seriously the problem? oh I know, everyone wants to be a big bad hard *** in cyrodiil right off the bat, or show off. aye, play the game and earn it. its not impossible to catch up to players at end game, it realllllllyyyy isnt.
It really is impossible for those people who work 18 hour days. But as you have already said, this is irrelevant to you. I have contributed all the thoughts I have about this champion point thing. It's pretty clear people feel very strongly about this, and I am not going get into a stressful discussion about a computer game. That would be counter productive to the reason I play because I play for fun.
My only hope is that the Devs are listening, and taking note of both sides of this discussion. There honestly has been good points raised on both sides.Ask not what your sweetroll can do for you....0 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭This is a great idea! Then we would all stop hating on the grinders and actually encourage them to grind more. Brilliant!
But, as another person already said, ESO is a business and businesses want to make money. So they're typically going to implement whatever generates profit. I suppose we can influence that with what we buy, but it's virtually impossible to control on a mass scale.
On the other hand, a horribly imbalanced system could deter new players and push away current ones. You can't sell vanity pets and xp potions if nobody's there to buy them.0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As always a well thought out idea by the OP.
My problem is this, why have any horizontal or vertical progression at all if everyone is going to be equal?
I mean what is the goal of playing the game, fun for sure but a player needs to see accomplishment as well.
A game is competition after all.0 -
Carter_DC✭✭✭CP system is not broken and works already fine.
It was already thought to minimize the gap between the ones that got tons and the ones that got fewer, by reducing the gain after a few points have been spent on a star.
And with illumination, it's really easy to get a CP a day, or even catch up the weekend since illumination stacks for 12 days.
There really is a gap between ppl with 30 CP (young VR14) and ppl with 300, but this gap is not so significant between someone with 300 and someone with 570 (same difference).
whether you like it or not, this system seems really fair to me.
Btw, OP, don't ever play EVE Online, young players have no chances whatsoever to compete with older accounts since xp is based on IRL time (and that's still a f'in great mmo).
High Kinlady Estre was right ! Hail to the Veil !
Fr AD Guild Arkadium.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »MaximumAttackG wrote: »MaximumAttackG wrote: »seriously, who gives a **** about PvP balance? id hate for them to let players just jump ahead, when there's people who dedicate serious time.
What you people need to do is git gud.
I really dont care if you work 18 hours a day and cant find time to play and want a little boost ahead. go play something else, mmos are suppose to be massive time sinks and if people are constantly equal then screw that, I dont wanna play. you gotta work to be a beast, in life and in video games. just like life is unfair and unbalanced so should eso! haha
This is the type of attitude that is killing the game.
I disagree, its the attitude that rids games of whiny entitled gamers.
Sounds like whining to me about new players to the game having a chance to make it to 50% of where the top players are.
It''s all a matter of perspective. Creating a toxic gaming environment is bad for everyone in the long run.
There is a difference between having a chance and having things handed to you others are required to play to get. This isnt about new players. New players wont even see CP for a long time. Fact is as in life MMO life is not always fair. There will always be someone who has more time than you do. Sometimes you just have to grow up, put your big boy pants on and accept the fact you wont always be equal with everyone else.
Perhaps you didn't actually read the thread, but I will clear it up since there is some confusion.
Noone is asking for handouts, ZoS has already stated that they are going to lower the xp required for the first "x" champion points to lessen the gap. They did NOT say "get to vet14, and here are 400 champ points on us!". Many players are just trying to come up with a flexible algorithm to keep this balance dynamic.
On another note, the people who are usually the biggest advocates of "greater investment should equal greater power" argue that having more time to play means they should be stronger, and that they don't care if it isn't fair. However, these same people are the loudest opponents of P2W. But I challenge that it is a matter of semantics. One player invests time, the other money.
WhIle I don't think either extreme is good for the game, it is funny to me to see how fast people get spun up when you ask them to look at their own argument after changing one word ;D
Maybe the game would be more fun if you worried less about what other players were doing, and just played the game.
Edited for spelling
Exactly. The game isnt meant to be fair. Also if you look Ive been invovled in this thread since the first page. So obviously its you who havent read it. This isnt about pay to win or anything else. Its about people expecting to be on a level playing field with others. Fact is MMOs dont work like that. Sooner you figure that out the better.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »The Champion Point system is fine as it is. Those who have been playing for a long time have more than someone who just started. Just like I have millions more gold than someone who just started, and I have hundreds more skill points than someone who just started. That's the way it is.
New players should have no expectation of installing the game and instantly be at the level of players who have been playing for years.
It is? The thread on this forum would suggest otherwise.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/search?adv=&search=Fix+CP&title=&author=&cat=all&tags=&discussion_d=1&discussion_question=1&discussion_poll=1&comment_c=1&comment_answer=1&within=1+day&date=
And most of those threads were started by and posted in by whiners and lazy individuals that don't want to put in the time to earn the CP like everyone else has. Just like all the threads whining about veteran ranks because players don't want to put in the time. Nothing is wrong with either system. People are just plain lazy.
Spends all their time sitting on their arse playing game because sick, schoolkid, retired or unemployed...calls people doing life stuff like REAL WORK to pay bills lazy.
Nice.
The only way this game prospers is if it caters to the majority.
Which are neither the no-timers or the no-lifers...but somewhere in the middle.
He doesnt mean lazy in real life. He means lazy in the game itself.0 -
Yinmaigao✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximumAttackG wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »MaximumAttackG wrote: »MaximumAttackG wrote: »seriously, who gives a **** about PvP balance? id hate for them to let players just jump ahead, when there's people who dedicate serious time.
What you people need to do is git gud.
I really dont care if you work 18 hours a day and cant find time to play and want a little boost ahead. go play something else, mmos are suppose to be massive time sinks and if people are constantly equal then screw that, I dont wanna play. you gotta work to be a beast, in life and in video games. just like life is unfair and unbalanced so should eso! haha
This is the type of attitude that is killing the game.
I disagree, its the attitude that rids games of whiny entitled gamers.
Sounds like whining to me about new players to the game having a chance to make it to 50% of where the top players are.
It''s all a matter of perspective. Creating a toxic gaming environment is bad for everyone in the long run.
There is a difference between having a chance and having things handed to you others are required to play to get. This isnt about new players. New players wont even see CP for a long time. Fact is as in life MMO life is not always fair. There will always be someone who has more time than you do. Sometimes you just have to grow up, put your big boy pants on and accept the fact you wont always be equal with everyone else.
Perhaps you didn't actually read the thread, but I will clear it up since there is some confusion.
Noone is asking for handouts, ZoS has already stated that they are going to lower the xp required for the first "x" champion points to lessen the gap. They did NOT say "get to vet14, and here are 400 champ points on us!". Many players are just trying to come up with a flexible algorithm to keep this balance dynamic.
On another note, the people who are usually the biggest advocates of "greater investment should equal greater power". However, these same people are the loudest opponents of P2W. But I challenge that it is a matter of semantics. One player invests time, the other money.
WhIle I don't think either extreme is good for the game, it is funny to me to see how fast people get spun up when you ask them to look at their own argument after changing one word ;D
Maybe the game would be more fun if you worried less about what other players were doing, and just played the game.
good god.. go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure. mmos are about time, when someone dedicates time to something and you see someone else who got to catch up easier and in less time because they want the game to circle around how much game time they have, does that not warrant some frustration about a gap closer for the vet player?
Calm down with the condescending attitude please.
I will say it again: Noone is asking for an advantage, even in the most extreme case, these players will get to half of where the top players are... while the top players continue to gain CP. There are many things frustrating in this game right now; having more viable players for trials/pvp is not among them.
All I am saying is that it makes better business sense and is more fun to have a player base be able to meet somewhere in the middle. Talking in extremes does nothing to address opinions, and just takes everyone further from the truth.1 -
MaximumAttackG✭✭✭MaximumAttackG wrote: »Wtf is wrong with new players being behind? if theres content for them to play till they catch up, then what's seriously the problem? oh I know, everyone wants to be a big bad hard *** in cyrodiil right off the bat, or show off. aye, play the game and earn it. its not impossible to catch up to players at end game, it realllllllyyyy isnt.
It really is impossible for those people who work 18 hour days. But as you have already said, this is irrelevant to you. I have contributed all the thoughts I have about this champion point thing. It's pretty clear people feel very strongly about this, and I am not going get into a stressful discussion about a computer game. That would be counter productive to the reason I play because I play for fun.
My only hope is that the Devs are listening, and taking note of both sides of this discussion. There honestly has been good points raised on both sides.
Arent we all playing for fun? If you dont have time then go play a single player game or keep playing casual, nothing is stopping you from enjoying other contents of the game, it seems like to me that you just want to be super powerful with everyone who has time to spend, mmos are just structured around mass amounts of progression and game time, if you let people just jump ahead then you're screwing the people who spent more time to get to where they are. How do you think someone who spent thousands of hours of their life to get to a point in a virtual world would feel of they seen someone jump to their level? that to me is much more uneven.Edited by MaximumAttackG on June 23, 2015 11:24AM1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ask WoW how dumbing everything down and handing players everything on a platter worked out for them. They have lost millions of players since they did this. It sounds good but here is what happens. The hardcore people quit because everyone is handed what they had to get via gameplay. The casuals quit because they are handed everything and get bored. So you end up losing both.
I think the majority of people who play this mmo and basically all mmos realize you wont be able to just come in the game and compete in pvp. It will take time to develop your character. Some call this "working for it" I simply call it playing the game and learning your character. There is no sense of accomplishment if you are handed everything.
A RL example. I bought my son a car. He trashed the interior. He didnt change the oil etc. Dents all over it. He didnt appreciate it because it was handed to him. His car he has now he bought himself. he saved and saved for the down payment and even financed it on his own. He treats it better than he treats his girl. Because he EARNED it and it wasnt handed to him.2 -
MaximumAttackG✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Ask WoW how dumbing everything down and handing players everything on a platter worked out for them. They have lost millions of players since they did this. It sounds good but here is what happens. The hardcore people quit because everyone is handed what they had to get via gameplay. The casuals quit because they are handed everything and get bored. So you end up losing both.
I think the majority of people who play this mmo and basically all mmos realize you wont be able to just come in the game and compete in pvp. It will take time to develop your character. Some call this "working for it" I simply call it playing the game and learning your character. There is no sense of accomplishment if you are handed everything.
A RL example. I bought my son a car. He trashed the interior. He didnt change the oil etc. Dents all over it. He didnt appreciate it because it was handed to him. His car he has now he bought himself. he saved and saved for the down payment and even financed it on his own. He treats it better than he treats his girl. Because he EARNED it and it wasnt handed to him.
I could kiss you0 -
Yinmaigao✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximumAttackG wrote: »MaximumAttackG wrote: »Wtf is wrong with new players being behind? if theres content for them to play till they catch up, then what's seriously the problem? oh I know, everyone wants to be a big bad hard *** in cyrodiil right off the bat, or show off. aye, play the game and earn it. its not impossible to catch up to players at end game, it realllllllyyyy isnt.
It really is impossible for those people who work 18 hour days. But as you have already said, this is irrelevant to you. I have contributed all the thoughts I have about this champion point thing. It's pretty clear people feel very strongly about this, and I am not going get into a stressful discussion about a computer game. That would be counter productive to the reason I play because I play for fun.
My only hope is that the Devs are listening, and taking note of both sides of this discussion. There honestly has been good points raised on both sides.
Thats an mmo for you, if you dont have time then go play a single player game or keep playing casual, nothing is stopping you from enjoying other contents of the game, it seems like to me that you just want to be super powerful with everyone who has time to spend, mmos are just structured around mass amounts of progression and game time, if you let people just jump ahead then you're screwing the people who spent more time to get to where they are. How do you think someone who spent thousands of hours of their life to get to a point in a virtual world would feel of they seen someone jump to their level? that to me is much more uneven.
I don't understand how people keep jumping to this nonsense.
So, you are saying that because player A has more time than player B to play, they should be stronger. Valid.
What I don't understand is where the conspiracy theory comes that they will suddenly "jump ahead and screw the people who played thousands of hours". The only way this would happen is if player A took an extended break, and if this is the case, that is exactly what you want.
Player B now plays more and had the advantage. However, if player A and player B play a similar amount of time, player B will still never catch up or surpass player A. Which, again, is valid.
It will, however, make it a sportsman-like competition. Shooting fish in a barrel gets old fast.
Sooooo... what exactly is the problem?
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Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Future Proof ? Check (if CS itself was future proofed this way which its not)
Stops veteran runaway ? Check.
Fixes power gap for new players ? Fail
The problem is any curve with diminishing return has to vastly inflate the power gap early on...to reduce the power gap at the end. Its an inescapable and inevitable consequence.
Until everyone is beyond 50% of the 3600 CP limit, you simply cant catch up and are doing no more than treading water just by grinding your arse off and buying XP boosters.
As people are finally beginning to realise.
Every step closer to the people in front....is also a step they are further away from you at the same time.
Everyone catches up at 3600 as its no different to a level cap.
But the road there is an endless grind.
With VR we had V10 V12 V14 level caps with a time gap between to let players catch up.
There is no catchup period through intermediate CP caps with CS.
There is no 90CP cap for 0-3 months > 180CP cap for 3-6 months > 270 CP cap for 6-9 months > 360 CP cap for 9-12 months.
Even if they did, new players would always be 12 months behind if they started 12 months later.
Then you need boosters for new players because of the power creep as the system isn't future proofed.
In contrast no one cared about XP grinding as far as skyshard/skill trees were concerned.
No skill trees were gated and passives unlock at different skill levels as you levelled the skill up.
But no one complains about this system even with vets unlocking all weapon skills and noobs only 1 weapon skill.
Why.....because VETs cant use them all even if they have been grinding for eternity.
The skill bar with 5+1 skills has effectively removed the need to grind and the consequences of an endless, uncapped vertical progression system are dead in the water.
Edited by Rune_Relic on June 23, 2015 11:37AMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited1 -
MaximumAttackG✭✭✭MaximumAttackG wrote: »MaximumAttackG wrote: »Wtf is wrong with new players being behind? if theres content for them to play till they catch up, then what's seriously the problem? oh I know, everyone wants to be a big bad hard *** in cyrodiil right off the bat, or show off. aye, play the game and earn it. its not impossible to catch up to players at end game, it realllllllyyyy isnt.
It really is impossible for those people who work 18 hour days. But as you have already said, this is irrelevant to you. I have contributed all the thoughts I have about this champion point thing. It's pretty clear people feel very strongly about this, and I am not going get into a stressful discussion about a computer game. That would be counter productive to the reason I play because I play for fun.
My only hope is that the Devs are listening, and taking note of both sides of this discussion. There honestly has been good points raised on both sides.
Thats an mmo for you, if you dont have time then go play a single player game or keep playing casual, nothing is stopping you from enjoying other contents of the game, it seems like to me that you just want to be super powerful with everyone who has time to spend, mmos are just structured around mass amounts of progression and game time, if you let people just jump ahead then you're screwing the people who spent more time to get to where they are. How do you think someone who spent thousands of hours of their life to get to a point in a virtual world would feel of they seen someone jump to their level? that to me is much more uneven.
I don't understand how people keep jumping to this nonsense.
So, you are saying that because player A has more time than player B to play, they should be stronger. Valid.
What I don't understand is where the conspiracy theory comes that they will suddenly "jump ahead and screw the people who played thousands of hours". The only way this would happen is if player A took an extended break, and if this is the case, that is exactly what you want.
Player B now plays more and had the advantage. However, if player A and player B play a similar amount of time, player B will still never catch up or surpass player A. Which, again, is valid.
It will, however, make it a sportsman-like competition. Shooting fish in a barrel gets old fast.
Sooooo... what exactly is the problem?
Ok, lets say Player A played 100 hours to get to level 50, and another 200hours to get his character maxed out for the current version of the game.
then lets say they come up with some gap closer like the one that was mentioned and made it faster to hit the ceiling to let new players catch up. lets say this saves a player 100 hours.
so player B gets to save 100hours of his life because everyone wants to be as strong as player A? what happens when you let everyone jump to player A without putting in the time an dedication? you get bored players, you increase the need to supply more dlc. This is the problem.Edited by MaximumAttackG on June 23, 2015 11:58AM1 -
Hlaadriel✭✭✭
Common we still run raids with some player barely reaching 7K DPS on the Mage/Warrior... Some of them new, why does everything has to be a competition?Fact is.. a game needs new people to survive, if these new players will have to get 1000+ cp to be slightly compettive no new players will join the game.
No new players = no money, no money = no game.
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G0ku✭✭✭✭MaximumAttackG wrote: »Ok, lets say Player A played 100 hours to get to level 50, and another 200hours to get his character maxed out for the current version of the game.
then lets say they come up with some gap closer like the one that was mentioned and made it faster to hit the ceiling to let new players catch up. lets say this saves a player 100 hours.
just leaving this here for the lols:
Dunmer DK Level 1 to VR 14: played 3 days. 10 hours 40 Minutes - at least 35 CP´s while leveling - 20 hours of Ambrosia OP
- First AD EU Group to finish DSA VET -
AD Altmer V16 Templar Alliance Rank 30 - EU - DSA Conqueror (pre-nerf) flawless vMSA
AD Argonian V16 Dragonknight Alliance Rank 15
AD Bosmer V16 Nightblade Alliance Rank 16
AD Kahjiit V16 Sorcerer Alliance Rank 10
AD Dunmer V16 Dragonknight Alliance Rank 9
AD Altmer V16 Templar Alliance Rank 10 - flawless vMSA
DC Altmer V16 Sorcerer Alliance Rank 9 - flawless vMSA
AD Breton V16 Templar Alliance Rank 10
AD Altmer V16 Sorceress Alliance Rank 21
AD Kahjiit Warden
AD Altmer Nightblade0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think also we need to stop assuming that noone ever quits the game. As new players come in the older players leave for various reasons.1 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭I really wouldn't care how big the cp gap was if they made a PvP campaign or two that eliminated CP ànd put everyone on equal footing. Then it really is more about skill and team work and not just about how much time you spent grinding CP.
Let the e-peeners compare e-peen on their own campaign and others can still enjoy the game without having to neglect their job, friends, and family, and give their kids a complex to play a game. I have a feeling though, that this isn't just about fairness or time invested but about people loving the imbalance because it makes them feel powerful. If everyone played on equal footing their e-peen would shrink and then they wouldn't feel good about themselves. For some, e-peen is where they derive self-esteem.Edited by Junkogen on June 23, 2015 11:49AM3 -
smokes✭✭✭problem is there's no CP cap. it's just open ended right up to the 3600 point endpoint.
it's not capped at for example 400 until new content comes out and it's then raised to 600 or something.
which would mean those with all the time in the world to grind it out over the space of a few days can do and they would then have a fairly significant advantage for a while, but then those who need 6 months to find that playtime have a chance to catch up to those at 400 until new content is released.
currently, someone could bot/grind/exploit their way to 3600 and go practically god mode.
incremental steps are what is needed. increase the CP cap incrementally every time new DLC comes out. leaving it open ended so someone can go godmode will put new players off.
there's a thread with a picture of a guy with like 700CP already, that, to me, is like a years worth of playtime, i have no chance of catching up. by the time i've put in the year, he'll be on 3600 and god mode.
whereas, if there was a 400 cap atm, he'd be at 400 and i'd have until the next DLC pack to catch him up a bit. it essentially limits the amount someone can get ahead.
whilst that idea probably royally aggrevates MaximumAttackG you have to structure the game to encourage growth and new players, not discourage it.
the current system really encourages unhealthy playstyles and or botting.1
bahahaha