The REAL way to FIX the ZERGING

Flawlless · June 2015

Ground oils wouldn't be enough by itself, they need to bring back dynamic ultimate regen as well.

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2015

I have seen enough evidence today for the fact that Ground oils would only hurt unorganized groups.....

those organized groups have enough Purge that the chances of sucessfully hurting them with Ground oils is now Next to nil.

GorraShatan · June 2015

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

I have seen enough evidence today for the fact that Ground oils would only hurt unorganized groups.....

those organized groups have enough Purge that the chances of sucessfully hurting them with Ground oils is now Next to nil.

Since when is the point to have unorganized groups wipe organized groups?

It's to help small organized groups wipe larger ones.

Cogo · June 2015

WRX wrote: »

Seriously over all the conspiracy threads calling for nonsense.

Heres the fix.

Ground. Oils.

Just my take.

(Was not meant to be super srs, but Im rolling with it now)

Ground oils is not a fix. Its a lame easy "one button press - to win".

Oils works nice as they are. Try it. Tried Meatbags? Meatbags are similar to "oil on ground".
Everyone yells Zergs.....Annoying!

Zerg = huge number of mindless monsters running everywhere.....no leading.

Lots of enemies in Cyro who is running the same direction, at the same time....IS NOT ZERGING.
Armies moves together. They also die if you try to counter with something else then Charging 50 players yourself!

I love "Zergs" in cyro. My Champion points and AP loves them too!

To "fix" any kind of warfare tactics, you deploy counter tactics. Winners adapts and overcome.

I'll give a free tip. A zerg rushing around? Place a meatbag on the walls in your keep, and shoot.
They cant reach you and you kill zergs......

GorraShatan · June 2015

Flawlless wrote: »

Ground oils wouldn't be enough by itself, they need to bring back dynamic ultimate regen as well.

Right... becuase impulse/bats zergs were great to fight.

WRX · June 2015

Cogo wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Seriously over all the conspiracy threads calling for nonsense.

Heres the fix.

Ground. Oils.

Just my take.

(Was not meant to be super srs, but Im rolling with it now)

Ground oils is not a fix. Its a lame easy "one button press - to win".

Oils works nice as they are. Try it. Tried Meatbags? Meatbags are similar to "oil on ground".
Everyone yells Zergs.....Annoying!

Zerg = huge number of mindless monsters running everywhere.....no leading.

Lots of enemies in Cyro who is running the same direction, at the same time....IS NOT ZERGING.
Armies moves together. They also die if you try to counter with something else then Charging 50 players yourself!

I love "Zergs" in cyro. My Champion points and AP loves them too!

To "fix" any kind of warfare tactics, you deploy counter tactics. Winners adapts and overcome.

I'll give a free tip. A zerg rushing around? Place a meatbag on the walls in your keep, and shoot.
They cant reach you and you kill zergs......

This gives me some insight into the type of player you are.

To each their own.

vortexman11 · June 2015

GorraShatan wrote: »

Flawlless wrote: »

Ground oils wouldn't be enough by itself, they need to bring back dynamic ultimate regen as well.

Right... becuase impulse/bats zergs were great to fight.

You know how you prevent impulse bats from being effective? By spreading out. You know how to stop an AoE speced DK from being effective? By spreading out. You know how you stop a streak and negate spamming sorc from being effective? By spreading out. You know how you stop a blazing shield bats spamming templar from being effective? By spreading out. You know how you stop a NightBlade sap tank spamming bats from being effective? By spreading out.

The dynamic ultimate gain system allowed for those who fought outnumbered to gain ultimate at an increased rate, thus causing zergs to spread out. When an impulse bat spammer isn't surrounded by players they don't receive heals, they don't do damage, they don't gain ultimate.

Whether you all liked it or not, the real zerg buster was the dynamic ultimate gain system. Thats what stopped 40 people from gathering on a flag and force flipping it, the fact that one person could simply spam bats in them and not die. As crazy as you think it is, this is what stopped the zergs.

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2015

im going to go on record here with this... Zerging would not be stopped by ground oils... or even the unstable bug.

the reason being, the zergs can use them as effectively...

the first prioirty should be making it more dangerous the more people you have. this will make people spread out.

Nerfing Purge which almost exclusively benefits the stack is one option, adding options to kill large groups of funneled players is another.

Ground Oils would make it easier for randoms to hold down a spot, but alone and with current mechanics would have no real effect on the pvp landscape.. (still prefer it out of the game currently)

Making blobs(which cause the most lag by being all in one spot) less effective is step one, making the ungrouped people spread out is step two.

Taonnor · June 2015

I got 2 Ideas to stop that:

- Half group size to 12
- Take an option inside to switch healing outside of group off

GaldorP · June 2015

I still think my suggestion of a lightning skill in the Alliance War skill lines, available to everyone, would be the best solution ^^
(The Celestial Mage uses it too, the first boss in veteran Fungal Grotto uses something similar!

)

GaldorP wrote: »

A lightning skill that deals increased damage for each player that is close-by would solve the problem ^^

If 1 player is on his/her own-> no damage
If 2 players are close together -> low amount of damage
If 10 players are all standing on the exact same spot -> all 10 die

Problem solved ^^

I'm actually being serious here. First person shooter MMOGs have all kinds of explosives to deal with this kind of problem. ESO has nothing that can effectively destroy these zergballs except for larger zergballs (siege weapons do not work). The lightning skill I suggested alone could prevent those zergballs from happening and it would be a weak skill for all other uses, not creating any balancing problems.

Sotha_Sil · June 2015

GaldorP wrote: »

I still think my suggestion of a lightning skill in the Alliance War skill lines, available to everyone, would be the best solution ^^
(The Celestial Mage uses it too, the first boss in veteran Fungal Grotto uses something similar! )

GaldorP wrote: »

A lightning skill that deals increased damage for each player that is close-by would solve the problem ^^

If 1 player is on his/her own-> no damage
If 2 players are close together -> low amount of damage
If 10 players are all standing on the exact same spot -> all 10 die

Problem solved ^^

I'm actually being serious here. First person shooter MMOGs have all kinds of explosives to deal with this kind of problem. ESO has nothing that can effectively destroy these zergballs except for larger zergballs (siege weapons do not work). The lightning skill I suggested alone could prevent those zergballs from happening and it would be a weak skill for all other uses, not creating any balancing problems.

I think it's what they wanted to do with magicka detonation. And to be honest I have never seen people using it altogether to destroy a zerg.

Cogo · June 2015

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

I think it's what they wanted to do with magicka detonation. And to be honest I have never seen people using it altogether to destroy a zerg.

I have

olsborg · June 2015

Make all siege dmg and cc unpurgeable. Snare and burning, yea blob up and die. Lagg gone.

Cogo · June 2015

Mr @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Please release the Imperial City "Soon". The natives are getting very restless!

Oh, I see a blob. Meet my meatbags!

Draxys · June 2015

GorraShatan wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

I have seen enough evidence today for the fact that Ground oils would only hurt unorganized groups.....

those organized groups have enough Purge that the chances of sucessfully hurting them with Ground oils is now Next to nil.

Since when is the point to have unorganized groups wipe organized groups?

It's to help small organized groups wipe larger ones.

^
Unorganized really shouldn't expect to be able to touch organized. Otherwise you're leveling the playing field too hard, it's like when you give every kid a trophy just because they showed up. Dumb.

The real issue here is giving smaller groups more of a fighting chance against mass swarms of players, organized or not. we need dynamic ultimate back.

Like vortex said, regardless whether you liked people spamming bats or not, it was because there was a mechanic in game that allowed for smaller forces to take on larger ones. This game is "overbalanced" and more boring without dynamic ultimate.

xaraan · June 2015

I was never a fan of ground oils. But, make seige do more damage the more players it hits (might not make a lot of sense in a realistic way, but it would work - and you could make it make sense - lightning reflects back and forth between players, cold damage builds up on multiple targets, causing more dmg around it, etc.). So it would benefit the smaller group more than bigger group, or blobbier group.

Have self prox det have diminishing damage when overlapping, No more zerg prox stacks taking out a few guys with no effort.

Adjust AP gains for larger groups fighting smaller so they get little to none for zerging a couple players or taking a keep defended by five or six with 50 men. They can easily split up and get the job done and if they didn't get AP, they would split up.

The whole diminishing AoE returns. the zerg benefits from being a blob and the smaller group gets hit with non-diminished AoEs from 20+ people at once where they are taking less than half of that damage (not counting there being less people in the smaller group) b/c of that.

Cap barrier to 12.

Cap groups to 12, they can coordinate through team speak as separate groups if need be.

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2015

Cogo wrote: »

Mr @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Please release the Imperial City "Soon". The natives are getting very restless!

Oh, I see a blob. Meet my meatbags!

Blob Uses Purge Spam!

Meatbag hits the blob!

Its not very effective...

frostbreeze · June 2015

OR nerf base damage of proximity detonation and make it scale by+ 100% for each enemy hit.And give it a stamina morph too so bowtards wont qq.

Davadin · June 2015

nerf shield stacking and zergs will disperse a lot easier.

Taonnor · June 2015

Another ideas:

- Implement more viable hard range aoe like the range detonation, so that 4-8 coordinate people can burst a blob from range down
- Implement more range aoe CC, for example a range morph of talons

The main problem of these blobs are that we not got any viable range aoe, so that you must go into melee range to bomb them down. But on melee range the blobs are very strong.

JDar · June 2015

Stackable ground oil.

Rook_Master wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Yes, because there's no way the zergs would also set up ground oils.

This idea is super fail, and ironic, considering who it's coming from.

Thanks for the input. Would like to refer you to my previous post.

Actually I remember just how *** ground oils were, thank you.

And I'm glad they fixed that crap.

Why didnt you purge? OR better yet, cleanse.

First you argue that Ground Oil will take care of zergs, but then you state you can just negate this by purging.

The big groups WILL PURGE, and this won't do anything but reintroduce broken mechanics. It's kind of like how Proxy Det was intended to blow up zergs, but now zergs simply spam it as well.

Do you follow my logic?

Sounds like you should join a zerg, that's my logic

frozywozy · June 2015

I read this thread and I find the same 10-15 solutions we have been suggestings since months ago. At this point, ZOS knows EXACTLY what to do. Stop re-explaining the same solutions over and over again. Quote your own posts and the posts of others instead. The problem isn't that ZOS is not aware of the problem and the solutions, it is that ZOS doesn't have the ressources, the time and the will to fix them until console release gets stable. Useless to keep writing up paragraphs about it. It's been said times and times again.

Unless that make you feel better, of course.

Xsorus · June 2015

Hmm

Lower Inevitable Detonation damage by 50%.
Make it instant cast
Make it scale based on number of people hit (50% per each person)

This means it won't super overpowered in 1v1 fights
But in zerg fights it'll quickly overwhelm ZergBalls

Joy_Division · June 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

I read this thread and I find the same 10-15 solutions we have been suggestings since months ago. At this point, ZOS knows EXACTLY what to do. Stop re-explaining the same solutions over and over again. Quote your own posts and the posts of others instead. The problem isn't that ZOS is not aware of the problem and the solutions, it is that ZOS doesn't have the ressources, the time and the will to fix them until console release gets stable. Useless to keep writing up paragraphs about it. It's been said times and times again.

Unless that make you feel better, of course.

I am not convinced that ZoS understand the core roots of the problem for "zerging." At all. If the poor state that is gear sets is any indication, I would say they hardly comprehend the very game they designed.

I am also not convinced many of the posters understand them either. People keep saying to limit group sizes and restrict AP gains as if they would somehow stop a 24-man raid that blobs into six 4-man raids that blob. It is exceedingly simple to follow these Zergs and derive all the benefits of power they hold and the AP they garner without being officially in their group or even in their Teamspeak.

Makkir · June 2015

Couldn't they just put diminishing returns on Purge.

Like it has no effect on you if 2 or more uses occur within short time frame....Kinda like the soft DR on Bolt Escape

MonkeyFuzzz · June 2015

I think id like to see them buff the damage on razor caltrops, coupled with current siege damage would make it easier to break zergballs.

God_flakes · June 2015

Calltrops are currently very under powered. I am a glass cannon and can wall easily walk over them and heal. They're pointless right now.

frostbreeze · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

Hmm

Lower Inevitable Detonation damage by 50%.
Make it instant cast
Make it scale based on number of people hit (50% per each person)

This means it won't super overpowered in 1v1 fights
But in zerg fights it'll quickly overwhelm ZergBalls

Kinda what i have in mind as well!

Killer808 · June 2015

WRX wrote: »

Seriously over all the conspiracy threads calling for nonsense.

Heres the fix.

Ground. Oils.

Just my take.

(Was not meant to be super srs, but Im rolling with it now)

AGREE 100% Please bring it back!

Raizin · June 2015

Killer808 wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Seriously over all the conspiracy threads calling for nonsense.

Heres the fix.

Ground. Oils.

Just my take.

(Was not meant to be super srs, but Im rolling with it now)

AGREE 100% Please bring it back!

omg yes, i remember swarms in the middle of nowhere and ppl gettin oiled

, so much fun...