Xsorus wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

I agree 100% with OP, the time is now. I am barely hanging on.

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

When you have guilds keep insisting on running 24 man Zerg balls...even though they know its what causes the Lag...You can't blame ZOS completely on this. No one needs to run a 24 man zerg ball, You can wipe large groups in this game quite easily with 8 to 12 people...So the playerbase needs some of this blame....

Now other issues such as Balance..Yea..That's ZoS fault..They released a major game rebalance then took a break to work on the consoles..Which i understand why they are working on Consoles..to make money, but at the same time a balance patch should of followed the rebalance right afterward, not a couple months down the road letting things fester.

I wouldn't put the blame on the player base when the player base was told it would be capable of supporting that scale of PVP. I don't understand why people place blame on 24 or more players while suggesting everyone run around in 8-12 man groups. What happens when your 8-12 man groups have to hit the same keep together? Pretend it's not 24 or more players?

See this is a problem right here.

People are confusing zergs with zergballs.

having 24 people in the area fighting is not the same as 24 people stacked on top of one another spamming AOEs over and over again.

Until people start to understand that Zerging and Zergballs aren't the same..we're never going to get anywhere.

Fatalyis wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

You can facepalm it all ya want..but when its Zerg Balls causing 100% of the ping issues in PvP its the players fault...not ZoS

So its the players fault for using the skills ZOS put into the game and not ZOS fault for not providing server stability?

I'm sorry, you're 100% wrong here. While these things exacerbate the problem, the overlying problem is with the game itself, not the players playing it. People have been stacking and using AOE's since beta in a game that advertised itself as having large-scale battles. How in any way someone could blame the players for playing the game as ZOS advertised, using the skills ZOS created, and on the servers and engines that ZOS runs is beyond me.

This is not an earnest attempt at addressing the problem, its just more Zergball forum QQ.

Only you're wrong about stacking since beta, No one was stacking at the start of the game...Because everyone thought AOE caps weren't in place (Because for a lot of abilities, they weren't)

It wasn't until after launch when people were whining about dying to Standard that ZOS was like "Oh yea its suppose to be capped at 6 like all AOES" and everyone was like "There is AOE caps?" in fact i can link you to countless threads and posts about this issue.

What Happens soon as they patch in the fix for those abilities? Everyone starts stacking, and slowly but surely server performance takes a nose dive.

And yes, its is the players Fault, Because not only have there been countless posts on the subject, not only has ZoS told you and everyone else "hey if you stack up and spam abilities it causes lag" you still have nimrods continue to do it.

It doesn't stop there either, Know how many 24 man zerg balls I saw before 1.6? Very few if any....Now most of the old groups that ran 12 back then picked up yet another 12 to zerg with even more people because they were getting crushed with 12 after the patch.

If you're going to whine about Ping issues in Cyrodiil, you need to place blame equally. You can't just say "Oh its all ZoS fault we suck as a player base and must stack on top of each other because if we don't random pugs kill us!"

So many things wrong with this response...

Yes people were stacking in beta, but it was less common because of the time frame and only hardcore grinders reached that level. And you can go back and watch early videos from major guilds after launch and those guilds stacked and used impulse. Not as prevalent as today, because the average player has caught up, but I've seen guilds running impulse trains as long as I've been playing this game, the only difference is in the frequency. The biggest reason the average player might not have seen stacking in beta was the limited time frame to level skills, but PTS users certainly were aware of aoe tactics.

And your whole 'people thought there were AoE caps' is wrong. ZoS added aoe caps, but under the 'guise' of 'oh hey these were supposed to be there all along,' much to the shock of addon makers and testers. Everyone who knew anything about the game knew that damage abilities didn't have aoe caps until the change, and the reasoning behind the change was a lie..

You didn't see zerg balls before 1.6? What game were you playing? Just on this comment alone you've annihilated your own credibility.

If the addition of AOE caps caused the lag, then why didn't it change when they were removed (albeit not completely)?

The real culprit is ZOS and their inability to fix their own problems.

Zos advertised the game as large scale open world PvP with 'hundreds' of players on screen. They put in groups of 24. They added AOE skills to the game. You can't blame players for playing the game ZOS advertised and designed the way ZOS intended. They failed, the blame is theirs, not ours.

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

I agree 100% with OP, the time is now. I am barely hanging on.

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

When you have guilds keep insisting on running 24 man Zerg balls...even though they know its what causes the Lag...You can't blame ZOS completely on this. No one needs to run a 24 man zerg ball, You can wipe large groups in this game quite easily with 8 to 12 people...So the playerbase needs some of this blame....

Now other issues such as Balance..Yea..That's ZoS fault..They released a major game rebalance then took a break to work on the consoles..Which i understand why they are working on Consoles..to make money, but at the same time a balance patch should of followed the rebalance right afterward, not a couple months down the road letting things fester.

I wouldn't put the blame on the player base when the player base was told it would be capable of supporting that scale of PVP. I don't understand why people place blame on 24 or more players while suggesting everyone run around in 8-12 man groups. What happens when your 8-12 man groups have to hit the same keep together? Pretend it's not 24 or more players?

See this is a problem right here.

People are confusing zergs with zergballs.

having 24 people in the area fighting is not the same as 24 people stacked on top of one another spamming AOEs over and over again.

Until people start to understand that Zerging and Zergballs aren't the same..we're never going to get anywhere.

Fatalyis wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

You can facepalm it all ya want..but when its Zerg Balls causing 100% of the ping issues in PvP its the players fault...not ZoS

So its the players fault for using the skills ZOS put into the game and not ZOS fault for not providing server stability?

I'm sorry, you're 100% wrong here. While these things exacerbate the problem, the overlying problem is with the game itself, not the players playing it. People have been stacking and using AOE's since beta in a game that advertised itself as having large-scale battles. How in any way someone could blame the players for playing the game as ZOS advertised, using the skills ZOS created, and on the servers and engines that ZOS runs is beyond me.

This is not an earnest attempt at addressing the problem, its just more Zergball forum QQ.

Only you're wrong about stacking since beta, No one was stacking at the start of the game...Because everyone thought AOE caps weren't in place (Because for a lot of abilities, they weren't)

It wasn't until after launch when people were whining about dying to Standard that ZOS was like "Oh yea its suppose to be capped at 6 like all AOES" and everyone was like "There is AOE caps?" in fact i can link you to countless threads and posts about this issue.

What Happens soon as they patch in the fix for those abilities? Everyone starts stacking, and slowly but surely server performance takes a nose dive.

And yes, its is the players Fault, Because not only have there been countless posts on the subject, not only has ZoS told you and everyone else "hey if you stack up and spam abilities it causes lag" you still have nimrods continue to do it.

It doesn't stop there either, Know how many 24 man zerg balls I saw before 1.6? Very few if any....Now most of the old groups that ran 12 back then picked up yet another 12 to zerg with even more people because they were getting crushed with 12 after the patch.

If you're going to whine about Ping issues in Cyrodiil, you need to place blame equally. You can't just say "Oh its all ZoS fault we suck as a player base and must stack on top of each other because if we don't random pugs kill us!"

So many things wrong with this response...

Yes people were stacking in beta, but it was less common because of the time frame and only hardcore grinders reached that level. And you can go back and watch early videos from major guilds after launch and those guilds stacked and used impulse. Not as prevalent as today, because the average player has caught up, but I've seen guilds running impulse trains as long as I've been playing this game, the only difference is in the frequency. The biggest reason the average player might not have seen stacking in beta was the limited time frame to level skills, but PTS users certainly were aware of aoe tactics.

And your whole 'people thought there were AoE caps' is wrong. ZoS added aoe caps, but under the 'guise' of 'oh hey these were supposed to be there all along,' much to the shock of addon makers and testers. Everyone who knew anything about the game knew that damage abilities didn't have aoe caps until the change, and the reasoning behind the change was a lie..

You didn't see zerg balls before 1.6? What game were you playing? Just on this comment alone you've annihilated your own credibility.

If the addition of AOE caps caused the lag, then why didn't it change when they were removed (albeit not completely)?

The real culprit is ZOS and their inability to fix their own problems.

Zos advertised the game as large scale open world PvP with 'hundreds' of players on screen. They put in groups of 24. They added AOE skills to the game. You can't blame players for playing the game ZOS advertised and designed the way ZOS intended. They failed, the blame is theirs, not ours.

1. No one was running Zerg Balls in beta, that is frankly a lie on your part...Now that doesn't mean people wouldn't AOE a clump down but that's not really a zerg ball. Generally the DPS would run in and bomb while the support hanged back and such. As someone who ran in a group that did just that for a very long time and fought groups with people like Fixate and such i can tell you it wasn't common till after 1.2 to see the 12 Mans appear doing the Zerg Ball BS.

2. No you're also wrong on this as well, This was tested multiple times back then. We found out that there were quite a few bit of skills that had caps, and a couple that didn't..Things like Talons/Standard for example didn't have Caps. They ended up just giving those caps like everything else. Problem is once they said Caps actually were in place they pretty much opened up the can of worms cause everyone remember what happened with GW2 and caps. There was no "Oh we're adding caps all of a sudden on everything" There were simply caps on some skills, and no caps on others. If you like I'll start bloody pulling of threads to show how wrong you are.

3. Where did I say I didn't see zerg balls before 1.6? The fact that you got wrong what I just said then claimed it annihilated my credibility shows that you lack reading comprehension. Go back and read my post again before you question peoples credibility and then actually quote them instead of posting random comments and claim that's what they said.

4. the AOE caps technically aren't removed, they've been increased but if you still have a ton of people standing in one area spamming abilities over and over again you're going to cause lag. AOE caps of course makes it easier for Groups to stack like this, but there are other things that need to be done to fix the problem as well. (Purge/Barrier/Vigor for example need caps)

5. You can have large numbers of people on the screen at once with very little lag, I know because i've actually pvped quite a bit without the zerg balls. Just because they put in Raid Groups of 24 doesn't mean you should be stacking on top of one another as well spamming constantly..and I can blame players just fine for doing something they know lags the game.....Its one thing if ya didn't know..but we have almost a year of evidence pointing that stacking and spamming is causing it and you still have terrible guilds who keep adding more and more people because random pugs wipe them doing the same crap as always.

It just seems like PC was a test for console!

Fantastic post and well written/said Rylana.

*edit for some feelings of my own.

As a leader of one of EP's main known PVP guilds on the EU servers it's been very disheartening to see players I have been gaming with for over a year finally closing their subs and uninstalling their clients.

As Rylana said, people are apathetic and tired of nothing from ZOS. There was a time right after the "Brian Wheeler should resign" thread where we had him posting in the forums discussing and debating issues with players. This was an improvement! The head of PVP taking the time to post and discuss with us.

I have posted it over and over again on these forums, ZOS need to be less like EA and more like CCP Games.
Just take a look at these forums sections ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=271 / https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=270 ) look how many Dev flags are there where actual developers in charge of making the game are talking with their players, debating, refuting and listening.
I love the ZOS community team and @ZOS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom do a fantastic job but at the end of the day they're not the ones I want to talk to about PVP issues, I want to go right to the head, the guy who literally makes the decisions about changes in PVP and to my knowledge that's @ZOS_BrianWheeler to my knowledge.

I asked the community team on Twitter but never got a reply about it but why can't we have a pinned thread in this section which gets updated at least once a week with information about what's happening and any progress made.
I again go back to CCP Games, but they announced over a year ago a new system which would cut lag in EVE PVP battles down, they didn't have it ready and they told us that, yet we waited patiently for over a year for more information because they at least updated us on what's happening.
The forum thread I speak about would at least show some information on what's happening, keep it to a dev/admin only thread but update it once a week with teasers about IC, or information on the latest ideas towards fixing lag.

Additionally start posting threads about new ideas before you just do them, make a thread titled "Update: Removing Forward Camps" and then let us rant and rave and give feedback about it. Best would be do this on the PTS and give us some weeks to try the features and actually give feedback on them. Work with us to develop a better gaming experience for everyone.

Again ZOS seems to be doing that whole company strategy where they're above the players and hide in their fortress behind walls rather then breaking down the walls, talking to the players, the people giving them the money and showing the passion to play the game to work towards resolving issues.

I believe his most recent post was just another promise of skill balances and Imperial City, however at this point I don't care about Imperial City, I want the core part of PVP to be running smoothly.

Slightly rambly but I hope at least someone at ZOS gives it all a read.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Whoever is telling you that there was no lag in betas is clearly having a hard time remembering the 30+ second delays which were the absolutely worst ones I've ever seen, including crashes and endless (yes, endless) loading screens.

This was in February beta weekends.

Crashing has nothing to do with the issue
same with the Loading Screen

I also didn't notice any 30 second delays during Feb Beta test..Nor early final either.

in fact most people will tell ya that they didn't notice lag issues in PvP till 1.2 ..

I play on the US servers though, so no clue if EU was different.

In February betas we were all on US servers and there were absolutely terrible latency spikes, worst I've ever seen. Someone will remember eventually I'm sure.

Endless loading screens and crashing were just icing on the cake back then. It was a huge problem back then, and even now it occasionally happens (except that they're not totally endless these days and crashes are much less frequent).

Well of course I remember, i was playing thru it all, but come one man, after i think first month and a half they more or less fixed the lag (not the loading screen, that almost ripped my balls off) and it was better playable then it is now. I dont remember loging off because i was disgusted by never ending lagfest like i m now - that has never happend, after they fixed the initial problems and what is more fun, they fixed it quiet fast, compare to whats happening now - which is complete ignore.

I wld honestly rather wait 5 min in loading screen once per hour, then *** lag for 3 hours and then leav the game in rage.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Very insightful post. I think you touch upon the frustration of the community with eloquence and thoughtfulness. Jaded really is the word to describe ESO players at this point and it's very sad. All too often, I hear the same complaints and the same desperate, hopeful musings from my friends. Everyone is just staying because the game has so much potential.

Question is, when will enough be enough? When will the remainder of us just give in and join the rest of the disappointed thousands?

If there were something better to play for the same type of PVP content and a similar level skill system openness, I think many would have been gone awhile ago. I play, and continue to play, because there's nothing else I'd enjoy more. Once that changes in the future, perhaps I won't. In the meantime, having voiced most of these same concerns literally 23 months ago and the majority of the rest that still have been left unfixed, unchanged, or even broken further, it's frustrating to see the potential not being met of what ESO could have (and still can, if they actually put the work into it soon at long last) be(en). I too noticed the distinct lack of Ambassadors chosen from areas other than roleplaying or general friendly posting and was taken a bit aback, @Rylana.

Xsorus wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Whoever is telling you that there was no lag in betas is clearly having a hard time remembering the 30+ second delays which were the absolutely worst ones I've ever seen, including crashes and endless (yes, endless) loading screens.

This was in February beta weekends.

Crashing has nothing to do with the issue
same with the Loading Screen

I also didn't notice any 30 second delays during Feb Beta test..Nor early final either.

in fact most people will tell ya that they didn't notice lag issues in PvP till 1.2 ..

I play on the US servers though, so no clue if EU was different.

In February betas we were all on US servers and there were absolutely terrible latency spikes, worst I've ever seen. Someone will remember eventually I'm sure.

Endless loading screens and crashing were just icing on the cake back then. It was a huge problem back then, and even now it occasionally happens (except that they're not totally endless these days and crashes are much less frequent).

I wasn't getting them during the Feb beta, so no clue

Endless Loading screens I have no idea whatever caused that...Wasn't really lag..as deleting a thing in the ESO files seem to help. Crashing of course will always be a problem...I've not had to many though in a long time.

Having played since July.... of 2013, I can assure you that the eternal load-screens existed all the way back then even, and were almost a definite when trying to go into a delve while grouped with more than 3 other people (or in other words, anything more than one party). The same behavior has continued off and on (mostly on) through the present.

Umm, I never said endless loading screens didn't exist, I was talking about lag back then. The load screens themself didn't really have to do with lag. Its rare I get those load screens now, but yea it still happens occasionally. Think it has something to do with the server losing track of ya when porting.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

I think we can all agree that this gave has always had significant performance issues and this is a shame since the pvp in this game is incomparable (in my opinion) to most other games I've researched and tried. I just can't compare it to guild wars, world of warcraft, rift, wildstar or any other game that's been on my radar. ESO definitely has better pvp potential than all and any of them.

And id wager (knowing my next statement is very accurate for a great deal of the people I know in game) that pretty much everyone here knows the potential, else we wouldnt still be here.

The frustration, anger, and resentment comes from broken promises, unmet expectations, and patience being abused to the point of burnout.

Being told to wait longer for fixes to give you what was promised at the day of launch, indeed before the game even was launched, is a dang good reason to be upset.

I know MMOs that had much worse runs, not just launches, but completely failed 1 year in, as well as those that made greivous management errors that cost them hundreds of thousands of subs in less than a months time.

ESO isnt to that level, not yet anyway, but its first year is among the rockiest I have witnessed, from a PvP perspective.

The potential you mention is literally the only factor keeping me and most of the remaining friends I have that still play this game, here.

The point of the thread is that patience is not infinite, especially among PvP gamers, so now is the time for ZOS to put up or shut up, figuratively speaking. We have waited long enough.

Could you imagine the headlines, the joy among us all, if we logged in Monday and all of the things we have been waiting on for so long to be fixed and put right, happened? Could you imagine that? The whole attitude and atmosphere would change.

Knowing for a fact that is a pipedream, and will likely never happen, makes the frustration all the worse.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

I think we can all agree that this game has always had significant performance issues and this is a shame since the pvp in this game is incomparable (in my opinion) to most other games I've researched and tried. I just can't compare it to guild wars, world of warcraft, rift, wildstar or any other game that's been on my radar. ESO definitely has better pvp potential than all and any of them.

I had a lot of fun in rift before they pulled that premade queue bs.. Pretty much instantly made my guild quit the game.

Great post Rylana!

You hit the nail right on the head.

I think most player will agree with your point of view Raylana.
The most depressing point for me is the lack of incentive from Zenimax to improve the game-breaking flaws.

Actions speak loader than words, and unfortunately the actions of Zenimax are very clear towards the future of the game.
The lag in Cyrodiil is getting worse while the player base is declining, I really dont understand how and why this is even possible. Even 24v24 fights are impossible most of the time because of the lag, skills wont go off, damage delays until you die from 54k fall damage.

If Zenimax would have any incentive to improve this game for us PC players we would have seen a significant improvement in the performance in Cyrodiil, the fact that its getting worse says enough.

I think the developers dont really have a say in this, they all want this game to work after all their efforts over the years. At the end of the day its the management who decides what to do and how much resources are available to get it done.

Sadly its time to milk the bank accounts of the console players, I highly doubt the issues that PC players encounter each and every day will ever be fixed.

Yeah, I agree with a lot of posts. It's a sad story. I quit my subscription a few days ago, because there is nothing for me to do in Eso anymore. Only some achievement hunting like fishing or pvp ranks. Waiting now half a year for a dlc is too much for me and paying 13 € a month for 10% more xp and gold drops is totally not worth the money for me. I wanted to stay subscribed but it makes no sense, since a barely play the game anymore.

I liked pvp, even taking the bugs, lack of players sometimes, some unkillable zergs and riding/hitchhiking simulator. What really killed pvp for me again and again is the permanent lag when there is a bigger interesting fight going on or even around the castle.
Lag, lag, lag, ping, lag, disconnect, lag, ping, disconnect, loading screen, crash, lag. That's pvp most of the time for me. Before 1.6 there was a time when it was quite okay, but then it went back to old standards of super lag. And it's not even true what some people say, like people spam abilities too much or zergball. Even when it's pretty regular, just with a lot of people it starts instantly lagging and not responding. It even lags in pve.
A lot of Trial raids, when there should be an epic pve fight in Hel Ra or Sanctum, when everyone runs into a big mob and uses their ultimates etc. Hell even then it lags. And that's instanced 12 people... It sometimes even lags on dailies. The only way to enjoy this game as it was advertised for me is to pull a lot of mobs in veteran dungeons to create a feeling of having some challenge and a lot of enemies to fight. Not bunch of 6 rats vs a tank, heal and 2 dd's. Or 1 Boss. Or 4 skeletons and 2 mages. Just pulling like 3-4 of those groups to get some epic fun moments out of it. Because this is not possible in raids, trials, pvp. There is no motivation for me to continue although currently although I like the ES series a lot. THe loot is so random it makes me wanna scream and this even for bound things? What sense makes that? I get 4 times in a row the same chest piece from the Serpent. A boss which takes a whole raid, coordination and time. It's not even like I can buy or exchange those pieces with other players. Same for veteran dungeons. 4 times the same belt, 3 times the same helmet, no gloves or shoulders after months and months. Why cant there be some sort of trader or exchange. Sacrifice 3 pieces for a piece you don't have? So people can complete their sets? I mean its not even tradeable.

But hey who knows, maybe this game aims for roleplayers only? Roleplaying doesn't require balancing or a lot of patches/fixes and since eso has a lot of nice places and cool graphics...

I mean when will the next big bugfix, patch, dlc come? It will take probably another month till xbox, playstation release has 'settled down'. And then what? Wait till Christmas for 1.7 ? Back when people where paying a subscription fee we waited several months for 1.6 The only new thing that gets updated/added on a frequent base is the crown store. The developer response on some major bugs in the forum where, that they don't want to rush fixing some skills in order to not make it worse.

Xsorus wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

I agree 100% with OP, the time is now. I am barely hanging on.

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

When you have guilds keep insisting on running 24 man Zerg balls...even though they know its what causes the Lag...You can't blame ZOS completely on this. No one needs to run a 24 man zerg ball, You can wipe large groups in this game quite easily with 8 to 12 people...So the playerbase needs some of this blame....

Now other issues such as Balance..Yea..That's ZoS fault..They released a major game rebalance then took a break to work on the consoles..Which i understand why they are working on Consoles..to make money, but at the same time a balance patch should of followed the rebalance right afterward, not a couple months down the road letting things fester.

I wouldn't put the blame on the player base when the player base was told it would be capable of supporting that scale of PVP. I don't understand why people place blame on 24 or more players while suggesting everyone run around in 8-12 man groups. What happens when your 8-12 man groups have to hit the same keep together? Pretend it's not 24 or more players?

See this is a problem right here.

People are confusing zergs with zergballs.

having 24 people in the area fighting is not the same as 24 people stacked on top of one another spamming AOEs over and over again.

Until people start to understand that Zerging and Zergballs aren't the same..we're never going to get anywhere.

Fatalyis wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

You can facepalm it all ya want..but when its Zerg Balls causing 100% of the ping issues in PvP its the players fault...not ZoS

So its the players fault for using the skills ZOS put into the game and not ZOS fault for not providing server stability?

I'm sorry, you're 100% wrong here. While these things exacerbate the problem, the overlying problem is with the game itself, not the players playing it. People have been stacking and using AOE's since beta in a game that advertised itself as having large-scale battles. How in any way someone could blame the players for playing the game as ZOS advertised, using the skills ZOS created, and on the servers and engines that ZOS runs is beyond me.

This is not an earnest attempt at addressing the problem, its just more Zergball forum QQ.

Only you're wrong about stacking since beta, No one was stacking at the start of the game...Because everyone thought AOE caps weren't in place (Because for a lot of abilities, they weren't)

It wasn't until after launch when people were whining about dying to Standard that ZOS was like "Oh yea its suppose to be capped at 6 like all AOES" and everyone was like "There is AOE caps?" in fact i can link you to countless threads and posts about this issue.

What Happens soon as they patch in the fix for those abilities? Everyone starts stacking, and slowly but surely server performance takes a nose dive.

And yes, its is the players Fault, Because not only have there been countless posts on the subject, not only has ZoS told you and everyone else "hey if you stack up and spam abilities it causes lag" you still have nimrods continue to do it.

It doesn't stop there either, Know how many 24 man zerg balls I saw before 1.6? Very few if any....Now most of the old groups that ran 12 back then picked up yet another 12 to zerg with even more people because they were getting crushed with 12 after the patch.

If you're going to whine about Ping issues in Cyrodiil, you need to place blame equally. You can't just say "Oh its all ZoS fault we suck as a player base and must stack on top of each other because if we don't random pugs kill us!"

So many things wrong with this response...

Yes people were stacking in beta, but it was less common because of the time frame and only hardcore grinders reached that level. And you can go back and watch early videos from major guilds after launch and those guilds stacked and used impulse. Not as prevalent as today, because the average player has caught up, but I've seen guilds running impulse trains as long as I've been playing this game, the only difference is in the frequency. The biggest reason the average player might not have seen stacking in beta was the limited time frame to level skills, but PTS users certainly were aware of aoe tactics.

And your whole 'people thought there were AoE caps' is wrong. ZoS added aoe caps, but under the 'guise' of 'oh hey these were supposed to be there all along,' much to the shock of addon makers and testers. Everyone who knew anything about the game knew that damage abilities didn't have aoe caps until the change, and the reasoning behind the change was a lie..

You didn't see zerg balls before 1.6? What game were you playing? Just on this comment alone you've annihilated your own credibility.

If the addition of AOE caps caused the lag, then why didn't it change when they were removed (albeit not completely)?

The real culprit is ZOS and their inability to fix their own problems.

Zos advertised the game as large scale open world PvP with 'hundreds' of players on screen. They put in groups of 24. They added AOE skills to the game. You can't blame players for playing the game ZOS advertised and designed the way ZOS intended. They failed, the blame is theirs, not ours.

1. No one was running Zerg Balls in beta, that is frankly a lie on your part...Now that doesn't mean people wouldn't AOE a clump down but that's not really a zerg ball. Generally the DPS would run in and bomb while the support hanged back and such. As someone who ran in a group that did just that for a very long time and fought groups with people like Fixate and such i can tell you it wasn't common till after 1.2 to see the 12 Mans appear doing the Zerg Ball BS.

2. No you're also wrong on this as well, This was tested multiple times back then. We found out that there were quite a few bit of skills that had caps, and a couple that didn't..Things like Talons/Standard for example didn't have Caps. They ended up just giving those caps like everything else. Problem is once they said Caps actually were in place they pretty much opened up the can of worms cause everyone remember what happened with GW2 and caps. There was no "Oh we're adding caps all of a sudden on everything" There were simply caps on some skills, and no caps on others. If you like I'll start bloody pulling of threads to show how wrong you are.

3. Where did I say I didn't see zerg balls before 1.6? The fact that you got wrong what I just said then claimed it annihilated my credibility shows that you lack reading comprehension. Go back and read my post again before you question peoples credibility and then actually quote them instead of posting random comments and claim that's what they said.

4. the AOE caps technically aren't removed, they've been increased but if you still have a ton of people standing in one area spamming abilities over and over again you're going to cause lag. AOE caps of course makes it easier for Groups to stack like this, but there are other things that need to be done to fix the problem as well. (Purge/Barrier/Vigor for example need caps)

5. You can have large numbers of people on the screen at once with very little lag, I know because i've actually pvped quite a bit without the zerg balls. Just because they put in Raid Groups of 24 doesn't mean you should be stacking on top of one another as well spamming constantly..and I can blame players just fine for doing something they know lags the game.....Its one thing if ya didn't know..but we have almost a year of evidence pointing that stacking and spamming is causing it and you still have terrible guilds who keep adding more and more people because random pugs wipe them doing the same crap as always.

So, I'll give you one last chance to admit you're wrong before I annihilate your argument that stacking and aoe spamming is a recent thing (i.e., 'no one did it pre 1.2,' you saw 'very few, if any before 1.6')...

I'll wait...

Okay, so here's a video of the guild that got first beta and live emperor, less than a week after launch, blobbing together spamming AOE... To make it easy for you, there's a great example of this at 6:00, but its all over the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuI-fl0fCbc

So, now that you've been thoroughly disproven, now that your argument has been shown time and time again to be wrong, just admit it that you're wrong and move on.

ZOS is to blame for the lag, not the players who've been playing it the same way since its launch.

Makkir wrote: »

Alomar wrote: »

Started playing ESO 22 months ago myself, finally called it a quits 4 weeks ago. The game may be "some of the best pvp till something better comes along", but I can't keep lying to myself or others about that any longer. We deserve better, and this company has proved they are unwilling to or incapable of providing it by now.

Another failed attempt at rvr, on to the next! #CamelotUnchained

bro that game looks like garbage clone ArchAge. If anything, the sandbox game The Repopulation will be launching sooner and looks more like old school Star Wars Galaxies.

This game is no sub required so you can still play until your Camelot failure launches.

And for those of you waiting on that other failure hype Crowfall...just remember the people who brought you the NGE are also behind it.

CU is in alpha, don't be so quick to judge.