Rylana's Ramblings - 18 months of Cyrodiil

Rylana · June 2015

So I thought I would put some thoughts to paper, or in this case, forum topic. I have been around since the late October 2013 beta, and in Cyrodiil since the same November. Through it all I have seen the game develop, what was broken, what was fixed, what was "fixed," what is still broken, the exploits, the cheats, the hacks, the lag, the problems, the community degrading, our forum privileges revoked, and just a slew of other negativity I will avoid for the most part.

There are a lot of reasons to complain, post negativity, and the like. There are dozens of threads here where the only response is from a mod once again moderating, and not a whole lot of actual developer response. One thing I noted is they recently added an Ambassador program to the game, sort of like community leadership I suppose, but what was lacking was a PvP leader. We got overlooked again, and that is a shame considering how much we have struggled with and many of us being forever silenced on technicalities unrelated to the actual fixing of the game.

Generally speaking, whenever I am on a teamspeak (could be any of them), or in a group chat, or in a guild chat, I hear the same 10 or so complaints I have heard for the last year, and the same 4-5 reasons for staying that are basically all hopes and dreams with very little realistic expectation. As a community, and no I dont claim to speak for all of us but I do speak for those I know and those who I have observed, we have reached the period in an MMOs lifespan of surrender and apathy. Very few people actually expect anything to improve. The times we have been promised things, they were withheld, delayed, poorly implemented, ineffective, or just plain never came to fruition at all.

Zenimax, we wouldn't be here if we didn't want this game to succeed and be fun. We would not be here if we did not support the efforts put into the game. That goes without saying, honestly. The more we post, the more it is obvious we actually care, but sometimes you guys up top in your corporate suits have no idea what is really happening down here below. Take a step down from your ivory tower and really look at what a year's worth of inaction/procrastination has caused. To the developers themselves doing the grunt work, implementing what youre told to do, I am not hammering on you, quite the opposite, I am going after the guys telling you what to do, because their decisions are making the work you do look shameful in the end product.

Step back from your metrics and raw figures for a moment Zenimax. Look at player retention and who has left in the last three to six months. Look at the reasons why they left, look at the common denominators of what is causing a large portion of your active player and subscriberbase to move on to other games. Nearly all of them left because you did not act fast enough on issues that have been present since launch day, and some from a couple months after with patch 1.2. We heard a lot of promises, a lot of "soon," a lot of hopes and dreams, but the end result is we still have an imbalanced, broken, buggy, laggy, horrendously underperforming experience that is actually the laughingstock of PvP gamers everywhere. You literally advertised this game, from before even closed beta, as a massive wargame in Cyrodiil with huge armies and massive battles. I wont quote the "hundreds of players" thing because that is just overdone, but you have not once to the date of this post, delivered on this promise. We have seen little glimpses and some short lives periods of stability, but along with those good times, there were game breaking glaring issues (usually involving some broken skill or mechanic that emergent gameplay enthusiasts would use to cause great mayhem).

You keep telling us "soon" you keep telling us console has to come first, you keep telling us youll get to us some day, you keep telling us things are in the works.

We didnt even get an ambassador, so how can we honestly trust you at this point? Jaded, dejected, and with the lowest expectations possible, that is what your community currently feels right now. I want that to change. I want to see this community excited, eager, and fighting the good fight across multiple balanced campaigns with multiple large groups and small groups engaged everywhere you look, fighting for their factional pride or whatever they perceive their role to be. I want smooth, reliable server and client performance, I dont want to crash out every time a meteor flies, i dont want ping rates exceeding 1000. I want an Elder Scrolls Online that works, that works well, and is a truly inviting environment for us to massacre each other in and do so for hours without having to worry about specs or settings or broken skills.

I want what any other gamer wants, a game worth the time to play that is fun. The ball is in your court Zenimax, because us old school players are becoming rather scarce, and the most vocal of us are also starting to call it a day. The time to act is now. Not in a month, not later this summer, but right now.

Cathexis · June 2015

+1. Well said.

Jules · June 2015

Very insightful post. I think you touch upon the frustration of the community with eloquence and thoughtfulness. Jaded really is the word to describe ESO players at this point and it's very sad. All too often, I hear the same complaints and the same desperate, hopeful musings from my friends. Everyone is just staying because the game has so much potential.

Question is, when will enough be enough? When will the remainder of us just give in and join the rest of the disappointed thousands?

Fatalyis · June 2015

Very well put!

I'll admit, I'm hanging on by a thread and holding out hope that we finally get some attention now that console has been released....but judging by the myriad of problems that are plaguing the console community...it's not looking good.

SirAndy · June 2015

I even send my resume to ZOS more than a year ago offering to jump in and help (no seriously, i did)...

Xsorus · June 2015

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

When you have guilds keep insisting on running 24 man Zerg balls...even though they know its what causes the Lag...You can't blame ZOS completely on this. No one needs to run a 24 man zerg ball, You can wipe large groups in this game quite easily with 8 to 12 people...So the playerbase needs some of this blame....

Now other issues such as Balance..Yea..That's ZoS fault..They released a major game rebalance then took a break to work on the consoles..Which i understand why they are working on Consoles..to make money, but at the same time a balance patch should of followed the rebalance right afterward, not a couple months down the road letting things fester.

Rylana · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

When you have guilds keep insisting on running 24 man Zerg balls...even though they know its what causes the Lag...You can't blame ZOS completely on this. No one needs to run a 24 man zerg ball, You can wipe large groups in this game quite easily with 8 to 12 people...So the playerbase needs some of this blame....

Now other issues such as Balance..Yea..That's ZoS fault..They released a major game rebalance then took a break to work on the consoles..Which i understand why they are working on Consoles..to make money, but at the same time a balance patch should of followed the rebalance right afterward, not a couple months down the road letting things fester.

You have a fair point there, but the impetus is on Zenimax to limit situations where emergent gameplay can affect server side performance. its up to them to police their own data loads.

If you have a congested intersection because it was designed poorly/insufficiently, you dont expect the drivers to drive less or come up with a solution, you install traffic lights, roundabouts, alternate routes, etc.

Zyle · June 2015

I agree 100% with OP, the time is now. I am barely hanging on.

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

When you have guilds keep insisting on running 24 man Zerg balls...even though they know its what causes the Lag...You can't blame ZOS completely on this. No one needs to run a 24 man zerg ball, You can wipe large groups in this game quite easily with 8 to 12 people...So the playerbase needs some of this blame....

Now other issues such as Balance..Yea..That's ZoS fault..They released a major game rebalance then took a break to work on the consoles..Which i understand why they are working on Consoles..to make money, but at the same time a balance patch should of followed the rebalance right afterward, not a couple months down the road letting things fester.

I wouldn't put the blame on the player base when the player base was told it would be capable of supporting that scale of PVP. I don't understand why people place blame on 24 or more players while suggesting everyone run around in 8-12 man groups. What happens when your 8-12 man groups have to hit the same keep together? Pretend it's not 24 or more players?

saintmurray · June 2015

I have pretty much given up on the game at the moment. Not making time in my life for a game that's no longer enjoyable.

SirAndy · June 2015

Rylana wrote: »

You have a fair point there, but the impetus is on Zenimax to limit situations where emergent gameplay can affect server side performance. its up to them to police their own data loads.

Their network code was already bad before they rushed in and "fixed" the bot problem after launch. Many have repeatedly pointed towards that during the closed beta but to no avail.

I do remember the last night before launch on the closed beta where we had a several hundred players from all 3 factions gather at the south entrance to the imperial city.
Everyone was spamming AOEs and spells, people were dropping scrolls like hotcakes and there was NO lag!

Those were the days ...

Fatalyis · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

Rylana · June 2015

SirAndy wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

You have a fair point there, but the impetus is on Zenimax to limit situations where emergent gameplay can affect server side performance. its up to them to police their own data loads.

Their network code was already bad before they rushed in and "fixed" the bot problem after launch. Many have repeatedly pointed towards that during the closed beta but to no avail.

I do remember the last night before launch on the closed beta where we had a several hundred players from all 3 factions gather at the south entrance to the imperial city.
Everyone was spamming AOEs and spells, people were dropping scrolls like hotcakes and there was NO lag!

Those were the days ...

The best performing build of ESO was the beta build the week before open beta ended. Whatever they did after that... even launch wasnt up to snuff.

Yeah there were issues still as it was a beta, but good god the game worked reliably. I would be logged in for 15 hours sometimes in those closed beta weekends testing things and exploring the game. Without a hiccup.

RadioheadSh0t · June 2015

Fatalyis wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

/win

Zheg · June 2015

I'd like to add that all of these frustrations are compounded by players in an underpopulated alliance on a campaign. Yes, DC has abysmal numbers now, but it's pretty clear that AD/EP have lost significant numbers as well, they just were in a better position to weather the losses. I've ranted and raved about how absurd it is that ZOS thought they could literally ignore the game and forums for 4+ months to work exclusively on console when the game was in such a degrading state to start with, but it doesn't seem to matter.

They either don't have the staff to do the work, don't have to capacity to figure out what's wrong and how to fix it, or don't think it's that big of a deal. Either way, there's nothing we can do but hope for a massive change over a short period of time (whether that's a large change of personnel or people at the decision-making level waking up all of a sudden).

Xsorus · June 2015

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

I agree 100% with OP, the time is now. I am barely hanging on.

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

When you have guilds keep insisting on running 24 man Zerg balls...even though they know its what causes the Lag...You can't blame ZOS completely on this. No one needs to run a 24 man zerg ball, You can wipe large groups in this game quite easily with 8 to 12 people...So the playerbase needs some of this blame....

Now other issues such as Balance..Yea..That's ZoS fault..They released a major game rebalance then took a break to work on the consoles..Which i understand why they are working on Consoles..to make money, but at the same time a balance patch should of followed the rebalance right afterward, not a couple months down the road letting things fester.

I wouldn't put the blame on the player base when the player base was told it would be capable of supporting that scale of PVP. I don't understand why people place blame on 24 or more players while suggesting everyone run around in 8-12 man groups. What happens when your 8-12 man groups have to hit the same keep together? Pretend it's not 24 or more players?

See this is a problem right here.

People are confusing zergs with zergballs.

having 24 people in the area fighting is not the same as 24 people stacked on top of one another spamming AOEs over and over again.

Until people start to understand that Zerging and Zergballs aren't the same..we're never going to get anywhere.

Fatalyis wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

You can facepalm it all ya want..but when its Zerg Balls causing 100% of the ping issues in PvP its the players fault...not ZoS

Fatalyis · June 2015

Zheg wrote: »

I've ranted and raved about how absurd it is that ZOS thought they could literally ignore the game and forums for 4+ months to work exclusively on console when the game was in such a degrading state to start with, but it doesn't seem to matter.

They either don't have the staff to do the work, don't have to capacity to figure out what's wrong and how to fix it, or don't think it's that big of a deal. Either way, there's nothing we can do but hope for a massive change over a short period of time (whether that's a large change of personnel or people at the decision-making level waking up all of a sudden).

My issue is this:

They decided they had to put the PC version on hold (aside from the rather miniscule patches we occasionally get on Mondays) to focus their efforts on getting the console version ready for release. Are we really naive to think, now that console has been released, that they are going to be able to provide enough support and meaningful updates to both?

I have my hopes, sure, but hope and change only work so well.....

Zyle · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

I agree 100% with OP, the time is now. I am barely hanging on.

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

When you have guilds keep insisting on running 24 man Zerg balls...even though they know its what causes the Lag...You can't blame ZOS completely on this. No one needs to run a 24 man zerg ball, You can wipe large groups in this game quite easily with 8 to 12 people...So the playerbase needs some of this blame....

Now other issues such as Balance..Yea..That's ZoS fault..They released a major game rebalance then took a break to work on the consoles..Which i understand why they are working on Consoles..to make money, but at the same time a balance patch should of followed the rebalance right afterward, not a couple months down the road letting things fester.

I wouldn't put the blame on the player base when the player base was told it would be capable of supporting that scale of PVP. I don't understand why people place blame on 24 or more players while suggesting everyone run around in 8-12 man groups. What happens when your 8-12 man groups have to hit the same keep together? Pretend it's not 24 or more players?

See this is a problem right here.

People are confusing zergs with zergballs.

having 24 people in the area fighting is not the same as 24 people stacked on top of one another spamming AOEs over and over again.

Until people start to understand that Zerging and Zergballs aren't the same..we're never going to get anywhere.

Fatalyis wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

You can facepalm it all ya want..but when its Zerg Balls causing 100% of the ping issues in PvP its the players fault...not ZoS

ThyIronFist · June 2015

I called it 1-2 months ago, beta-tester and long time player here... enough is enough. Too many people left, and Cyrodiil became one blobfest. It's clear they can't fix Cyrodiil, and they wont. Why should they? They're making tons of $$$ from console peasants.

You're a fool if you think that ZOS will pull a magical wand out of their arses now that console has been released, and that they'll fix all the lag, poor performance and balance issues in Cyrodiil.

Raizin · June 2015

Jules wrote: »

Very insightful post. I think you touch upon the frustration of the community with eloquence and thoughtfulness. Jaded really is the word to describe ESO players at this point and it's very sad. All too often, I hear the same complaints and the same desperate, hopeful musings from my friends. Everyone is just staying because the game has so much potential.

Question is, when will enough be enough? When will the remainder of us just give in and join the rest of the disappointed thousands?

when some better game comes out (hello ZOS it is coming),then the population ll reduce to such low numbers, that lag in cyro wont matter, there wont be any

(among other things)

Alomar · June 2015

Started playing ESO 22 months ago myself, finally called it a quits 4 weeks ago. The game may be "some of the best pvp till something better comes along", but I can't keep lying to myself or others about that any longer. We deserve better, and this company has proved they are unwilling to or incapable of providing it by now.

Another failed attempt at rvr, on to the next! #CamelotUnchained

Raizin · June 2015

Alomar wrote: »

Started playing ESO 22 months ago myself, finally called it a quits 4 weeks ago. The game may be "some of the best pvp till something better comes along", but I can't keep lying to myself or others about that any longer. We deserve better, and this company has proved they are unwilling to or incapable of providing it by now.

Another failed attempt at rvr, on to the next! #CamelotUnchained

pretty pls, dont let that game be another failure....

RadioheadSh0t · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

I agree 100% with OP, the time is now. I am barely hanging on.

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

When you have guilds keep insisting on running 24 man Zerg balls...even though they know its what causes the Lag...You can't blame ZOS completely on this. No one needs to run a 24 man zerg ball, You can wipe large groups in this game quite easily with 8 to 12 people...So the playerbase needs some of this blame....

Now other issues such as Balance..Yea..That's ZoS fault..They released a major game rebalance then took a break to work on the consoles..Which i understand why they are working on Consoles..to make money, but at the same time a balance patch should of followed the rebalance right afterward, not a couple months down the road letting things fester.

I wouldn't put the blame on the player base when the player base was told it would be capable of supporting that scale of PVP. I don't understand why people place blame on 24 or more players while suggesting everyone run around in 8-12 man groups. What happens when your 8-12 man groups have to hit the same keep together? Pretend it's not 24 or more players?

See this is a problem right here.

People are confusing zergs with zergballs.

having 24 people in the area fighting is not the same as 24 people stacked on top of one another spamming AOEs over and over again.

Until people start to understand that Zerging and Zergballs aren't the same..we're never going to get anywhere.

Fatalyis wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

You can facepalm it all ya want..but when its Zerg Balls causing 100% of the ping issues in PvP its the players fault...not ZoS

So its the players fault for using the skills ZOS put into the game and not ZOS fault for not providing server stability?

I'm sorry, you're 100% wrong here. While these things exacerbate the problem, the overlying problem is with the game itself, not the players playing it. People have been stacking and using AOE's since beta in a game that advertised itself as having large-scale battles. How in any way someone could blame the players for playing the game as ZOS advertised, using the skills ZOS created, and on the servers and engines that ZOS runs is beyond me.

This is not an earnest attempt at addressing the problem, its just more Zergball forum QQ.

Chesimac · June 2015

Raizin wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Very insightful post. I think you touch upon the frustration of the community with eloquence and thoughtfulness. Jaded really is the word to describe ESO players at this point and it's very sad. All too often, I hear the same complaints and the same desperate, hopeful musings from my friends. Everyone is just staying because the game has so much potential.

Question is, when will enough be enough? When will the remainder of us just give in and join the rest of the disappointed thousands?

when some better game comes out (hello ZOS it is coming),then the population ll reduce to such low numbers, that lag in cyro wont matter, there wont be any (among other things)

CAMELOT UNCHAINED HYPE

xaraan · June 2015

You are right on with the fact that whatever complaints or specifics there are from time to time, you do tend to hear a lot of the same issues in every guild I've run with about the game.

Xsorus · June 2015

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

I agree 100% with OP, the time is now. I am barely hanging on.

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

When you have guilds keep insisting on running 24 man Zerg balls...even though they know its what causes the Lag...You can't blame ZOS completely on this. No one needs to run a 24 man zerg ball, You can wipe large groups in this game quite easily with 8 to 12 people...So the playerbase needs some of this blame....

Now other issues such as Balance..Yea..That's ZoS fault..They released a major game rebalance then took a break to work on the consoles..Which i understand why they are working on Consoles..to make money, but at the same time a balance patch should of followed the rebalance right afterward, not a couple months down the road letting things fester.

I wouldn't put the blame on the player base when the player base was told it would be capable of supporting that scale of PVP. I don't understand why people place blame on 24 or more players while suggesting everyone run around in 8-12 man groups. What happens when your 8-12 man groups have to hit the same keep together? Pretend it's not 24 or more players?

See this is a problem right here.

People are confusing zergs with zergballs.

having 24 people in the area fighting is not the same as 24 people stacked on top of one another spamming AOEs over and over again.

Until people start to understand that Zerging and Zergballs aren't the same..we're never going to get anywhere.

Fatalyis wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

100% of the lag problems in Cyrodiil right now are completely the fault of the players in Cyrodiil.

You can facepalm it all ya want..but when its Zerg Balls causing 100% of the ping issues in PvP its the players fault...not ZoS

So its the players fault for using the skills ZOS put into the game and not ZOS fault for not providing server stability?

I'm sorry, you're 100% wrong here. While these things exacerbate the problem, the overlying problem is with the game itself, not the players playing it. People have been stacking and using AOE's since beta in a game that advertised itself as having large-scale battles. How in any way someone could blame the players for playing the game as ZOS advertised, using the skills ZOS created, and on the servers and engines that ZOS runs is beyond me.

This is not an earnest attempt at addressing the problem, its just more Zergball forum QQ.

Only you're wrong about stacking since beta, No one was stacking at the start of the game...Because everyone thought AOE caps weren't in place (Because for a lot of abilities, they weren't)

It wasn't until after launch when people were whining about dying to Standard that ZOS was like "Oh yea its suppose to be capped at 6 like all AOES" and everyone was like "There is AOE caps?" in fact i can link you to countless threads and posts about this issue.

What Happens soon as they patch in the fix for those abilities? Everyone starts stacking, and slowly but surely server performance takes a nose dive.

And yes, its is the players Fault, Because not only have there been countless posts on the subject, not only has ZoS told you and everyone else "hey if you stack up and spam abilities it causes lag" you still have nimrods continue to do it.

It doesn't stop there either, Know how many 24 man zerg balls I saw before 1.6? Very few if any....Now most of the old groups that ran 12 back then picked up yet another 12 to zerg with even more people because they were getting crushed with 12 after the patch.

If you're going to whine about Ping issues in Cyrodiil, you need to place blame equally. You can't just say "Oh its all ZoS fault we suck as a player base and must stack on top of each other because if we don't random pugs kill us!"

LegendaryMage · June 2015

Whoever is telling you that there was no lag in betas is clearly having a hard time remembering the 30+ second delays which were the absolute worst ones I've ever seen, including crashes and endless (yes, endless) loading screens.

This was in February beta weekends when pretty much everyone started getting invitations.

Lag has always been a problem and I'm afraid it will always be. Well, not if enough people quit the game I guess, but that's not a real solution I'm sure most would agree.

This is one of the major reasons why so many players want small scale pvp ASAP.

Xsorus · June 2015

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Whoever is telling you that there was no lag in betas is clearly having a hard time remembering the 30+ second delays which were the absolutely worst ones I've ever seen, including crashes and endless (yes, endless) loading screens.

This was in February beta weekends.

Crashing has nothing to do with the issue
same with the Loading Screen

I also didn't notice any 30 second delays during Feb Beta test..Nor early final either.

in fact most people will tell ya that they didn't notice lag issues in PvP till 1.2 ..

I play on the US servers though, so no clue if EU was different.

Roselle · June 2015

I can easily still have a blast in this game, but it requires good AD players. Preferably only like 5-7.

When I think people are being stupid I usually just rage and log out.

FireCowCommando · June 2015

As you said in your post, i just dont believe they have the ability to fix this game anymore.

If they did they would have by now. And i am also a believer that the money from console sales are going to build their next game, and they are dropping support for this one.

Why do i think this? Well ***, they havnt been working on content since 1.6 due to console. Why would they start again?

AT BEST this game has 1 more year in it. and i expect a total of 2 content patches in this period.

LegendaryMage · June 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Whoever is telling you that there was no lag in betas is clearly having a hard time remembering the 30+ second delays which were the absolutely worst ones I've ever seen, including crashes and endless (yes, endless) loading screens.

This was in February beta weekends.

Crashing has nothing to do with the issue
same with the Loading Screen

I also didn't notice any 30 second delays during Feb Beta test..Nor early final either.

in fact most people will tell ya that they didn't notice lag issues in PvP till 1.2 ..

I play on the US servers though, so no clue if EU was different.

In February betas we were all on US servers and there were absolutely terrible latency spikes, worst I've ever seen. Someone will remember eventually I'm sure.

Endless loading screens and crashing were just icing on the cake back then. It was a huge problem back then, and even now it occasionally happens (except that they're not totally endless these days and crashes are much less frequent).

Xsorus · June 2015

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Whoever is telling you that there was no lag in betas is clearly having a hard time remembering the 30+ second delays which were the absolutely worst ones I've ever seen, including crashes and endless (yes, endless) loading screens.

This was in February beta weekends.

Crashing has nothing to do with the issue
same with the Loading Screen

I also didn't notice any 30 second delays during Feb Beta test..Nor early final either.

in fact most people will tell ya that they didn't notice lag issues in PvP till 1.2 ..

I play on the US servers though, so no clue if EU was different.

In February betas we were all on US servers and there were absolutely terrible latency spikes, worst I've ever seen. Someone will remember eventually I'm sure.

Endless loading screens and crashing were just icing on the cake back then. It was a huge problem back then, and even now it occasionally happens (except that they're not totally endless these days and crashes are much less frequent).

I wasn't getting them during the Feb beta, so no clue

Endless Loading screens I have no idea whatever caused that...Wasn't really lag..as deleting a thing in the ESO files seem to help. Crashing of course will always be a problem...I've not had to many though in a long time.