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About the "endgame" that everyone complains...
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nine9six✭✭✭✭✭
✭pecheckler wrote: »Really? There are only 4 ways to do MMO endgame? You're pretty narrow minded.
Constructive post. Well done.Wake up, we're here. Why are you shaking? Are you ok? Wake up...1 -
Xjcon✭✭✭✭✭@DDuke the difference is that xp does not reset or getting "cheaper" as time pass..you are slowly climbing higher and those behind you will climb the exact same distance. Also there are no fixed number of xp you can get per day or week. These 2 reasons are crusial for me.
What I get from your posts is that you have an abundance of time and so this current cp system that rewards time spent grinding is in your favor, while the rest of the players want to play more challenging content and be rewarded for their time spent when they can. I don't want to take the CP system out of the game, but I would like to see more things to do and not just for kicks, doing Trials is pretty much just for kicks these days as the gear and xp are blah. While farming chests in delves or farming AP points is the way to get the best gear.Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
Jcon V16 Orc DK
Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB1 -
Xjcon✭✭✭✭✭Knootewoot wrote: »I don't need rewards for PvP as it's rewarding for me just to be able to be part of it. Once they start hand out armors with uber stats as rewards, they have to keep making new and better all the time. In a small time gear stats, not the player skill, will determine the outcome of a battle.
That's why i also don't like gear progression. It's a never ending progress and also has issues for me with PvE. Like in SWTOR i don't get invited because i dont have gear of that rating.
So what happens after equal geared players face off? It's the same as if they had equal amounts of cp. If you don't get invited to the raids why not start your own? The players who gear check in those situations want to complete the content with other players who have also completed it, at one point those players had to learn the raids just like you would need to. I have completed all the content in eso and the only real challenge was getting mantikora down and hardmodes.
Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
Jcon V16 Orc DK
Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB1 -
You can hardly call it the "ESO style" considering Everquest introduced pretty much the exact same type of system fourteen years ago in 2001.
But what Zenimax did do right was make CP account wide, that was crucial to the system's success.
The problem is that ESO does not encourage grouping for experience. In Everquest you really needed to group up with other people to grind mobs, and it was a lot more fun that way. In ESO you are gimping yourself with anything more than a single partner, and there is absolutely no challenge whatsoever in grinding mobs -- it is completely mindless with no chance to die unless you are really not paying attention.
With the exception of DSA, the most fun content in the game gives absolutely horrible experience compared to grinding. So in ESO you must choose to either a) have fun, or b) focus on character advancement.
The biggest mistake was not releasing a new zone or zones to go along with the champion system. But that ship has sailed now, and a lot of people just quit when they realized that to get CP at a decent rate they would have to grind the same old content that they were already tired of.
when its said right the first time, you don't need to say it again. i agree with the above quote, though i am neutral about account bound CPs. but thats because i don't have to spend them on my alts. i also want to add, that i don't HAVE to have alts for self-reliance, so i don't have to worry about CPs on alts, twinking alts, or even playing alts. i can focus squarely on my main, or have fun with my alts or go alternate story routes with my alts.
my only issue with CP grinding is time spent/rewards are best found in caldwells gold not craglorn. that needs adjusting a bit so its both worth the effort and time, but to also spread out max level toons out a bit more. or they could just add content that isn't slated for god-knows-when.Edited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on June 4, 2015 9:54PMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19180 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Knootewoot wrote: »I don't need rewards for PvP as it's rewarding for me just to be able to be part of it. Once they start hand out armors with uber stats as rewards, they have to keep making new and better all the time. In a small time gear stats, not the player skill, will determine the outcome of a battle.
That's why i also don't like gear progression. It's a never ending progress and also has issues for me with PvE. Like in SWTOR i don't get invited because i dont have gear of that rating.
No, PvP will be determined by who slaughtered more pve trash, and you will be passed for invites because your cpc (champion point count) isn't high enough.
At least with gear progression you can potentially get your gear by running with decent people and a bit of learning. But with what we have there is only the grinding in circles.This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
Knootewoot wrote: »I don't need rewards for PvP as it's rewarding for me just to be able to be part of it. Once they start hand out armors with uber stats as rewards, they have to keep making new and better all the time. In a small time gear stats, not the player skill, will determine the outcome of a battle.
That's why i also don't like gear progression. It's a never ending progress and also has issues for me with PvE. Like in SWTOR i don't get invited because i dont have gear of that rating.
No, PvP will be determined by who slaughtered more pve trash, and you will be passed for invites because your cpc (champion point count) isn't high enough.
At least with gear progression you can potentially get your gear by running with decent people and a bit of learning. But with what we have there is only the grinding in circles.
short version: ignore the "player check" clowns.
don't put so much stock in people that say moronic things, especially if you don't agree with it- in this case player checks. there will always be some form of player check. even when i was a hardcore raiding, fully decked to the 9's in the best raid gear, i would ignore the yahoos calling for some form of player check. too many times had i fulfilled their check, agreed to group, then find out all they wanted was a free ride. the only other scenario was, they wanted the whole world in the form of instant gratification so they would be quick to jump ship if it didn't work to their ideals. those types are complete clowns. in fact, i would add them to my ignore list most of the time...Edited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on June 4, 2015 10:24PMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19182 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Same. But still, if the complaint is that you will not get invites, the problem is still there. And in my opinion, its worse.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »I don't need rewards for PvP as it's rewarding for me just to be able to be part of it. Once they start hand out armors with uber stats as rewards, they have to keep making new and better all the time. In a small time gear stats, not the player skill, will determine the outcome of a battle.
That's why i also don't like gear progression. It's a never ending progress and also has issues for me with PvE. Like in SWTOR i don't get invited because i dont have gear of that rating.
No, PvP will be determined by who slaughtered more pve trash, and you will be passed for invites because your cpc (champion point count) isn't high enough.
At least with gear progression you can potentially get your gear by running with decent people and a bit of learning. But with what we have there is only the grinding in circles.
short version: ignore the "player check" clowns.
don't put so much stock in people that say moronic things, especially if you don't agree with it- in this case player checks. there will always be some form of player check. even when i was a hardcore raiding, fully decked to the 9's in the best raid gear, i would ignore the yahoos calling for some form of player check. too many times had i fulfilled their check, agreed to group, then find out all they wanted was a free ride. the only other scenario was, they wanted the whole world in the form of instant gratification so they would be quick to jump ship if it didn't work to their ideals. those types are complete clowns. in fact, i would add them to my ignore list most of the time...
This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
SeptimusDova✭✭✭✭✭
✭so player checks on CP now? wow this gets better every day. The bosses havent changed CP is just gravy on top of already mastered skills. Makes things easier but not essential. Although my Kitty glows orange when fighting magic people and defending flowers.0 -
SeptimusDova wrote: »so player checks on CP now? wow this gets better every day. The bosses havent changed CP is just gravy on top of already mastered skills. Makes things easier but not essential. Although my Kitty glows orange when fighting magic people and defending flowers.
i have yet to see any CP checks. so far it seems more of a "problem in theory" than a "problem in reality"
Same. But still, if the complaint is that you will not get invites, the problem is still there. And in my opinion, its worse.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »I don't need rewards for PvP as it's rewarding for me just to be able to be part of it. Once they start hand out armors with uber stats as rewards, they have to keep making new and better all the time. In a small time gear stats, not the player skill, will determine the outcome of a battle.
That's why i also don't like gear progression. It's a never ending progress and also has issues for me with PvE. Like in SWTOR i don't get invited because i dont have gear of that rating.
No, PvP will be determined by who slaughtered more pve trash, and you will be passed for invites because your cpc (champion point count) isn't high enough.
At least with gear progression you can potentially get your gear by running with decent people and a bit of learning. But with what we have there is only the grinding in circles.
short version: ignore the "player check" clowns.
don't put so much stock in people that say moronic things, especially if you don't agree with it- in this case player checks. there will always be some form of player check. even when i was a hardcore raiding, fully decked to the 9's in the best raid gear, i would ignore the yahoos calling for some form of player check. too many times had i fulfilled their check, agreed to group, then find out all they wanted was a free ride. the only other scenario was, they wanted the whole world in the form of instant gratification so they would be quick to jump ship if it didn't work to their ideals. those types are complete clowns. in fact, i would add them to my ignore list most of the time...
if a community supports it then you are screwed more by the community than the individual. guilds should help avoid gear checks, aid in getting the needed gear checks, as well as giving you a better idea in the quality of groupee you get.I will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19181 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »SeptimusDova wrote: »so player checks on CP now? wow this gets better every day. The bosses havent changed CP is just gravy on top of already mastered skills. Makes things easier but not essential. Although my Kitty glows orange when fighting magic people and defending flowers.
i have yet to see any CP checks. so far it seems more of a "problem in theory" than a "problem in reality"
Same. But still, if the complaint is that you will not get invites, the problem is still there. And in my opinion, its worse.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »I don't need rewards for PvP as it's rewarding for me just to be able to be part of it. Once they start hand out armors with uber stats as rewards, they have to keep making new and better all the time. In a small time gear stats, not the player skill, will determine the outcome of a battle.
That's why i also don't like gear progression. It's a never ending progress and also has issues for me with PvE. Like in SWTOR i don't get invited because i dont have gear of that rating.
No, PvP will be determined by who slaughtered more pve trash, and you will be passed for invites because your cpc (champion point count) isn't high enough.
At least with gear progression you can potentially get your gear by running with decent people and a bit of learning. But with what we have there is only the grinding in circles.
short version: ignore the "player check" clowns.
don't put so much stock in people that say moronic things, especially if you don't agree with it- in this case player checks. there will always be some form of player check. even when i was a hardcore raiding, fully decked to the 9's in the best raid gear, i would ignore the yahoos calling for some form of player check. too many times had i fulfilled their check, agreed to group, then find out all they wanted was a free ride. the only other scenario was, they wanted the whole world in the form of instant gratification so they would be quick to jump ship if it didn't work to their ideals. those types are complete clowns. in fact, i would add them to my ignore list most of the time...
if a community supports it then you are screwed more by the community than the individual. guilds should help avoid gear checks, aid in getting the needed gear checks, as well as giving you a better idea in the quality of groupee you get.
Its a good thing cp checks aren't actually a thing. Because with cp, guilds can't "aid in getting the needed gear checks." Or, they can, but not effectively, and not by doing fun stuff (unless you REALLY like running in circles spamming aoe). So, yes, it is a "problem in theory," and a seemingly inevitable evolution due to how the system works (both mechanics wise and community wise)
I can say with certainty though that my guild prides itself on not doing things like gear checks. But as to the rest of the community...
Edited by Shunravi on June 4, 2015 11:34PMThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »SeptimusDova wrote: »so player checks on CP now? wow this gets better every day. The bosses havent changed CP is just gravy on top of already mastered skills. Makes things easier but not essential. Although my Kitty glows orange when fighting magic people and defending flowers.
i have yet to see any CP checks. so far it seems more of a "problem in theory" than a "problem in reality"
Same. But still, if the complaint is that you will not get invites, the problem is still there. And in my opinion, its worse.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »I don't need rewards for PvP as it's rewarding for me just to be able to be part of it. Once they start hand out armors with uber stats as rewards, they have to keep making new and better all the time. In a small time gear stats, not the player skill, will determine the outcome of a battle.
That's why i also don't like gear progression. It's a never ending progress and also has issues for me with PvE. Like in SWTOR i don't get invited because i dont have gear of that rating.
No, PvP will be determined by who slaughtered more pve trash, and you will be passed for invites because your cpc (champion point count) isn't high enough.
At least with gear progression you can potentially get your gear by running with decent people and a bit of learning. But with what we have there is only the grinding in circles.
short version: ignore the "player check" clowns.
don't put so much stock in people that say moronic things, especially if you don't agree with it- in this case player checks. there will always be some form of player check. even when i was a hardcore raiding, fully decked to the 9's in the best raid gear, i would ignore the yahoos calling for some form of player check. too many times had i fulfilled their check, agreed to group, then find out all they wanted was a free ride. the only other scenario was, they wanted the whole world in the form of instant gratification so they would be quick to jump ship if it didn't work to their ideals. those types are complete clowns. in fact, i would add them to my ignore list most of the time...
if a community supports it then you are screwed more by the community than the individual. guilds should help avoid gear checks, aid in getting the needed gear checks, as well as giving you a better idea in the quality of groupee you get.
Its a good thing cp checks aren't actually a thing. Because with cp, guilds can't "aid in getting the needed gear checks." Or, they can, but not effectively, and not by doing fun stuff (unless you REALLY like running in circles spamming aoe). So, yes, it is a "problem in theory," and a seemingly inevitable evolution due to how the system works (both mechanics wise and community wise)
I can say with certainty though that my guild prides itself on not doing things like gear checks. But as to the rest of the community...
so get to grinding out the CPs, i do it and couldn't care less what the future has in store with regard to CP checks. will guilds do it, eventually yes. when the raid content isn't crummy and the champion system is relevant and raiding guilds look to raid, there will be CP checks. don't have enough, cant join the guild. EQ had em and it was only the top 5% that actually could enforce the rule and maintain a roster.
as far as the rest of the community, if they CP check me they can kiss my ass.I will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19180 -
Earelith✭✭✭@DDuke the difference is that xp does not reset or getting "cheaper" as time pass..you are slowly climbing higher and those behind you will climb the exact same distance. Also there are no fixed number of xp you can get per day or week. These 2 reasons are crusial for me.
What I get from your posts is that you have an abundance of time and so this current cp system that rewards time spent grinding is in your favor, while the rest of the players want to play more challenging content and be rewarded for their time spent when they can. I don't want to take the CP system out of the game, but I would like to see more things to do and not just for kicks, doing Trials is pretty much just for kicks these days as the gear and xp are blah. While farming chests in delves or farming AP points is the way to get the best gear.
This is a false assumption..I have a full time work and I play 1-2 hours per day at most and not every day. At weekend I might play 4-5 hours, but this also is not certain. If you don't have time, like me, why do you think that the other system (gear grind) will be better for you? You will be slowing climbing a wall and once you are near the end, someone kicks you and you go to the bottom again.
If you just accept (like me), that you don't have enough time to be among the top players, you will realize that no system will help you do better, and that endgame systems is not the reason you are behind. Because gear grind also is a matter of time, of how many times you will knock your head against a boss. I tried that in wow TBC....
If you want challenge, thats not the fault of the system. They can make a v14 zone that is very challenging, or they can have dungeons/trials very very difficult that will award huge xp on completion. As said, there are tweaks that can be done for the better, to reward challenging and group content more than grinding. But the answer is not to put us all in a rat wheel. That would be the reason to quit for sure.Edited by Earelith on June 5, 2015 5:48AM0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »SeptimusDova wrote: »so player checks on CP now? wow this gets better every day. The bosses havent changed CP is just gravy on top of already mastered skills. Makes things easier but not essential. Although my Kitty glows orange when fighting magic people and defending flowers.
i have yet to see any CP checks. so far it seems more of a "problem in theory" than a "problem in reality"
Same. But still, if the complaint is that you will not get invites, the problem is still there. And in my opinion, its worse.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »I don't need rewards for PvP as it's rewarding for me just to be able to be part of it. Once they start hand out armors with uber stats as rewards, they have to keep making new and better all the time. In a small time gear stats, not the player skill, will determine the outcome of a battle.
That's why i also don't like gear progression. It's a never ending progress and also has issues for me with PvE. Like in SWTOR i don't get invited because i dont have gear of that rating.
No, PvP will be determined by who slaughtered more pve trash, and you will be passed for invites because your cpc (champion point count) isn't high enough.
At least with gear progression you can potentially get your gear by running with decent people and a bit of learning. But with what we have there is only the grinding in circles.
short version: ignore the "player check" clowns.
don't put so much stock in people that say moronic things, especially if you don't agree with it- in this case player checks. there will always be some form of player check. even when i was a hardcore raiding, fully decked to the 9's in the best raid gear, i would ignore the yahoos calling for some form of player check. too many times had i fulfilled their check, agreed to group, then find out all they wanted was a free ride. the only other scenario was, they wanted the whole world in the form of instant gratification so they would be quick to jump ship if it didn't work to their ideals. those types are complete clowns. in fact, i would add them to my ignore list most of the time...
if a community supports it then you are screwed more by the community than the individual. guilds should help avoid gear checks, aid in getting the needed gear checks, as well as giving you a better idea in the quality of groupee you get.
Its a good thing cp checks aren't actually a thing. Because with cp, guilds can't "aid in getting the needed gear checks." Or, they can, but not effectively, and not by doing fun stuff (unless you REALLY like running in circles spamming aoe). So, yes, it is a "problem in theory," and a seemingly inevitable evolution due to how the system works (both mechanics wise and community wise)
I can say with certainty though that my guild prides itself on not doing things like gear checks. But as to the rest of the community...
so get to grinding out the CPs, i do it and couldn't care less what the future has in store with regard to CP checks. will guilds do it, eventually yes. when the raid content isn't crummy and the champion system is relevant and raiding guilds look to raid, there will be CP checks. don't have enough, cant join the guild. EQ had em and it was only the top 5% that actually could enforce the rule and maintain a roster.
as far as the rest of the community, if they CP check me they can kiss my ass.
Same with gear progression no?
honestly i don't care, just restating the concern.This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »SeptimusDova wrote: »so player checks on CP now? wow this gets better every day. The bosses havent changed CP is just gravy on top of already mastered skills. Makes things easier but not essential. Although my Kitty glows orange when fighting magic people and defending flowers.
i have yet to see any CP checks. so far it seems more of a "problem in theory" than a "problem in reality"
Same. But still, if the complaint is that you will not get invites, the problem is still there. And in my opinion, its worse.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »I don't need rewards for PvP as it's rewarding for me just to be able to be part of it. Once they start hand out armors with uber stats as rewards, they have to keep making new and better all the time. In a small time gear stats, not the player skill, will determine the outcome of a battle.
That's why i also don't like gear progression. It's a never ending progress and also has issues for me with PvE. Like in SWTOR i don't get invited because i dont have gear of that rating.
No, PvP will be determined by who slaughtered more pve trash, and you will be passed for invites because your cpc (champion point count) isn't high enough.
At least with gear progression you can potentially get your gear by running with decent people and a bit of learning. But with what we have there is only the grinding in circles.
short version: ignore the "player check" clowns.
don't put so much stock in people that say moronic things, especially if you don't agree with it- in this case player checks. there will always be some form of player check. even when i was a hardcore raiding, fully decked to the 9's in the best raid gear, i would ignore the yahoos calling for some form of player check. too many times had i fulfilled their check, agreed to group, then find out all they wanted was a free ride. the only other scenario was, they wanted the whole world in the form of instant gratification so they would be quick to jump ship if it didn't work to their ideals. those types are complete clowns. in fact, i would add them to my ignore list most of the time...
if a community supports it then you are screwed more by the community than the individual. guilds should help avoid gear checks, aid in getting the needed gear checks, as well as giving you a better idea in the quality of groupee you get.
Its a good thing cp checks aren't actually a thing. Because with cp, guilds can't "aid in getting the needed gear checks." Or, they can, but not effectively, and not by doing fun stuff (unless you REALLY like running in circles spamming aoe). So, yes, it is a "problem in theory," and a seemingly inevitable evolution due to how the system works (both mechanics wise and community wise)
I can say with certainty though that my guild prides itself on not doing things like gear checks. But as to the rest of the community...
so get to grinding out the CPs, i do it and couldn't care less what the future has in store with regard to CP checks. will guilds do it, eventually yes. when the raid content isn't crummy and the champion system is relevant and raiding guilds look to raid, there will be CP checks. don't have enough, cant join the guild. EQ had em and it was only the top 5% that actually could enforce the rule and maintain a roster.
as far as the rest of the community, if they CP check me they can kiss my ass.
Same with gear progression no?
honestly i don't care, just restating the concern.
gear progression in MMOs today are a joke. ever since the WoW era of care bear MMOs began, gear is easy as hell to get. you don't even need a full raid set to get raids onto farm status. the only thing that slowed gear progression down were the timer locks. other wise full sets would have been everywhere at the end of the first month. ESO, so far, has kept to having crafted gear that is worth having. if you can't get the tempers for that then any issues you are having are because of you. anyone that "gear checks" are complete morons and arent worth grouping with.I will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19181 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There aren't any "CP checks" but if you are pulling mediocre DPS because you lack the CPs, you won't be invited to raid.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.2 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »SeptimusDova wrote: »so player checks on CP now? wow this gets better every day. The bosses havent changed CP is just gravy on top of already mastered skills. Makes things easier but not essential. Although my Kitty glows orange when fighting magic people and defending flowers.
i have yet to see any CP checks. so far it seems more of a "problem in theory" than a "problem in reality"
Same. But still, if the complaint is that you will not get invites, the problem is still there. And in my opinion, its worse.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »I don't need rewards for PvP as it's rewarding for me just to be able to be part of it. Once they start hand out armors with uber stats as rewards, they have to keep making new and better all the time. In a small time gear stats, not the player skill, will determine the outcome of a battle.
That's why i also don't like gear progression. It's a never ending progress and also has issues for me with PvE. Like in SWTOR i don't get invited because i dont have gear of that rating.
No, PvP will be determined by who slaughtered more pve trash, and you will be passed for invites because your cpc (champion point count) isn't high enough.
At least with gear progression you can potentially get your gear by running with decent people and a bit of learning. But with what we have there is only the grinding in circles.
short version: ignore the "player check" clowns.
don't put so much stock in people that say moronic things, especially if you don't agree with it- in this case player checks. there will always be some form of player check. even when i was a hardcore raiding, fully decked to the 9's in the best raid gear, i would ignore the yahoos calling for some form of player check. too many times had i fulfilled their check, agreed to group, then find out all they wanted was a free ride. the only other scenario was, they wanted the whole world in the form of instant gratification so they would be quick to jump ship if it didn't work to their ideals. those types are complete clowns. in fact, i would add them to my ignore list most of the time...
if a community supports it then you are screwed more by the community than the individual. guilds should help avoid gear checks, aid in getting the needed gear checks, as well as giving you a better idea in the quality of groupee you get.
Its a good thing cp checks aren't actually a thing. Because with cp, guilds can't "aid in getting the needed gear checks." Or, they can, but not effectively, and not by doing fun stuff (unless you REALLY like running in circles spamming aoe). So, yes, it is a "problem in theory," and a seemingly inevitable evolution due to how the system works (both mechanics wise and community wise)
I can say with certainty though that my guild prides itself on not doing things like gear checks. But as to the rest of the community...
so get to grinding out the CPs, i do it and couldn't care less what the future has in store with regard to CP checks. will guilds do it, eventually yes. when the raid content isn't crummy and the champion system is relevant and raiding guilds look to raid, there will be CP checks. don't have enough, cant join the guild. EQ had em and it was only the top 5% that actually could enforce the rule and maintain a roster.
as far as the rest of the community, if they CP check me they can kiss my ass.
Same with gear progression no?
honestly i don't care, just restating the concern.
gear progression in MMOs today are a joke. ever since the WoW era of care bear MMOs began, gear is easy as hell to get. you don't even need a full raid set to get raids onto farm status. the only thing that slowed gear progression down were the timer locks. other wise full sets would have been everywhere at the end of the first month. ESO, so far, has kept to having crafted gear that is worth having. if you can't get the tempers for that then any issues you are having are because of you. anyone that "gear checks" are complete morons and arent worth grouping with.
Are you arguing against me, or reinforcing my point? I'm a bit confused...
This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
Joy_Division wrote: »There aren't any "CP checks" but if you are pulling mediocre DPS because you lack the CPs, you won't be invited to raid.
this makes most sense. i think most people lose sight to this as a reality- if you bad DPS because your rotation sucks, your gear sucks, your CP totals suck, then clearly you are dragging down the 11 other individuals and the unit comes over the individual. while i don't adhere to the "perfect rotation," i have been a raid leader and had to explain the clearly ignorant. its not an easy conversation for me in a game (as a boss at work it was easier lol), but if you suck, mind you not your gear or CPs, you can't drag down the unit. but i have also worked with these individuals to refine their issues. gear and CPs are largely about time, i know what its like to not have enough time for the perfect gear or the max CPs, so i empathize when reasonable. personally, with how easy MMOs have gotten overall, i sometimes welcome the "misfits" because it adds challenge to the game. thats why i can be so callous with adding CP/gear checkers to ignore. screw that crap, if i wanted easy-mode id stick to single player games. besides, you make more friends, money, and CPs helping others than pissing on them.I will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19181 -
SeptimusDova✭✭✭✭✭
✭Make friends not enemies.Myself I play deliberately and methodical I don't treat delves and raids as a race to the finish. I prefer a strategy and tactics set that will maximize the forces potential. Ok on some raids we have a time to beat, a dps check, got it. Cool part of the mechanics. Others we don't. But you always get that speedy Gonzales who wants to rush ahead of every one ala. Leroy Jenkins and get killed. I can work with those types for a couple of days. After that I have to cut them loose.1 -
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »SeptimusDova wrote: »so player checks on CP now? wow this gets better every day. The bosses havent changed CP is just gravy on top of already mastered skills. Makes things easier but not essential. Although my Kitty glows orange when fighting magic people and defending flowers.
i have yet to see any CP checks. so far it seems more of a "problem in theory" than a "problem in reality"
Same. But still, if the complaint is that you will not get invites, the problem is still there. And in my opinion, its worse.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »I don't need rewards for PvP as it's rewarding for me just to be able to be part of it. Once they start hand out armors with uber stats as rewards, they have to keep making new and better all the time. In a small time gear stats, not the player skill, will determine the outcome of a battle.
That's why i also don't like gear progression. It's a never ending progress and also has issues for me with PvE. Like in SWTOR i don't get invited because i dont have gear of that rating.
No, PvP will be determined by who slaughtered more pve trash, and you will be passed for invites because your cpc (champion point count) isn't high enough.
At least with gear progression you can potentially get your gear by running with decent people and a bit of learning. But with what we have there is only the grinding in circles.
short version: ignore the "player check" clowns.
don't put so much stock in people that say moronic things, especially if you don't agree with it- in this case player checks. there will always be some form of player check. even when i was a hardcore raiding, fully decked to the 9's in the best raid gear, i would ignore the yahoos calling for some form of player check. too many times had i fulfilled their check, agreed to group, then find out all they wanted was a free ride. the only other scenario was, they wanted the whole world in the form of instant gratification so they would be quick to jump ship if it didn't work to their ideals. those types are complete clowns. in fact, i would add them to my ignore list most of the time...
if a community supports it then you are screwed more by the community than the individual. guilds should help avoid gear checks, aid in getting the needed gear checks, as well as giving you a better idea in the quality of groupee you get.
Its a good thing cp checks aren't actually a thing. Because with cp, guilds can't "aid in getting the needed gear checks." Or, they can, but not effectively, and not by doing fun stuff (unless you REALLY like running in circles spamming aoe). So, yes, it is a "problem in theory," and a seemingly inevitable evolution due to how the system works (both mechanics wise and community wise)
I can say with certainty though that my guild prides itself on not doing things like gear checks. But as to the rest of the community...
so get to grinding out the CPs, i do it and couldn't care less what the future has in store with regard to CP checks. will guilds do it, eventually yes. when the raid content isn't crummy and the champion system is relevant and raiding guilds look to raid, there will be CP checks. don't have enough, cant join the guild. EQ had em and it was only the top 5% that actually could enforce the rule and maintain a roster.
as far as the rest of the community, if they CP check me they can kiss my ass.
Same with gear progression no?
honestly i don't care, just restating the concern.
gear progression in MMOs today are a joke. ever since the WoW era of care bear MMOs began, gear is easy as hell to get. you don't even need a full raid set to get raids onto farm status. the only thing that slowed gear progression down were the timer locks. other wise full sets would have been everywhere at the end of the first month. ESO, so far, has kept to having crafted gear that is worth having. if you can't get the tempers for that then any issues you are having are because of you. anyone that "gear checks" are complete morons and arent worth grouping with.
Are you arguing against me, or reinforcing my point? I'm a bit confused...
a little of both. there is a need for player checks in some (usually extreme) aspects, but its completely asinine to have them in things that don't need em. in ESO, for example, you don't need blue+ gear for soloing, you don't need purple+ gear for grouping, and you don't need legendary for raiding. those things HELP, but if you got your *** together and know what you are doing, you dont NEED them. its something i try to explain when people say they need legendary gear for basic (usually solo) game-play and how i counter the myth there aren't solo sets, group sets, and raid sets. people focus too much on this crap likes its written in stone you need one small aspect of the game or the whole game is cut from you. my best analogy for MMOs, they are calculators where you can modify the calculations; you don't have to rely solely on calculations. its just not a one sided issue.
a good example:
back when BC in WoW was released i found a weapon that was clearly tank oriented. i don't remember the specific level requirement/stats, but i do recall they boosted a good deal in the tanking area (which is the role i was playing). one guy (also a tank) was talking all kinds of crap about how the DPS sucked, so my threat generation must have sucked, and how little my DPS was because of the low damage on it. what his stance was i was wasting groups/raids time with this "lesser" weapon. he believed i should be farming for the better tank weapon (which i didnt have time for) or not group/raid. all of that was utter bull ***- for starters most MMOs put tanks DPS really low because they will survive better. also, because it was low DPS i produced too little threat (there were "scaled threat abilities based on weapons damage) which is true, but not universal because there are abilities these days just in case your weapon damage sucks so it was a moot argument. most of the guild who were reading this laughed, because they have grouped with me and universally agreed, i was the best tank they ever had. i don't know about being the best, but i sure as hell don't need some yahoo telling me i sucked solely on the quality of my weapon. the rest of my gear was the "pre-raid" set that WoW tended to have at the time (think of blue/purple gear in ESO terms). what was truly ironic, is he didn't feel i should be grouping, yet to farm the weapon i was eventually going to farm when i had the time, required a group. how am i supposed to farm for a tank weapon, that requires a group to get, when i shouldn't be grouping? the answer was we eventually kicked him out of the guild because we got tired of listening to him tell everyone how to play their classes and wasn't going to actually physically help with them (all talk, no action). then he never had to worry about grouping with us lol.I will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19181 -
jpalm1995✭✭✭Option 5:
Actually listen to your player base and give instance based PvP so those of us who don't want to get zerged don't have toI always say that I hate this game, yet for some reason i'm still here.1 -
Talemire✭✭✭After playing so many MMOs over the last Decade, I really believe that ESO is the best MMO. Some people complain about the so called and famous "endgame" but I find ESO progression system the best of all.
There are 4 ways to have your MMO "endgame"
1) The wow style. Gear treadmill...you go after a set of gear by doing repetitive tasks, actually by just doing the same raid over and over for 4-5 months while all other game content is irrelevant. And after 5 months, there is a new raid with better gear that you run for the next 5 months. In the meanwhile, the gear you managed to get after 5 months of repetitive content, is now being given to others in a week or 2 in order to "catch up"
2) The GW2 style. No gear treadmill but no increase in power through other means. You play for Vanity items and for fun. While much better (imo) from the (1) method, still gets you bored sometimes. GW2 does included the Ascended gear also, after the exotic, but this is not a gear treadmill but more of a long term goal to catch, without resets. You still play for vanity. PVP ranks just give you costumes..
3) The ESO style. No gear treadmill but you continue progress your characters slowly through the champion points system. This method does not funnel you through a specific way of play and does not punish you by having and playing alts. There may be a more efficient and less efficient ways to progress that way, but the key is that there are alternatives.
You can play however you like, whoever character you like and still progress in your own pace..It may leave a gap between veteran and new players, but on the same time does not throw to the garbage all your "hard earning" progression, nor giving for free to others what you achieved, like the (1) method.
4)The EVE style. While I have not played EVE, I have read about it. In eve the are no levels but you build ships and put upgrades on them. The upgrade system works like research works in ESO. You put a skill or upgrade in a que and you wait x days or weeks until it completes.
Like method (3) it creates a gap between new players and veteran ones, but on the same time as said, progressing your account does not feel worthless and what you have achieved will not obsolete by a patch.
Personally I much prefer the ESO style of game content. You can advance at your own pace by doing whatever you like..You can just go grind mobs, or do a dungeon, or do some pvp, or play an alt, explore, do achievement. And all of these without daily/weekly caps that "force" you to do all or some of them each day/week. You have the complete freedom to play the game the way you like it and you still progress..
"endgame" content for me is: ESO > EVE > GW2 > WOW
Also, I have posted that link on another thread but is a very good read and will post it here again in case some people missed ithttp://www.engadget.com/2014/03/14/working-as-intended-endgame-is-the-worst-thing-that-ever-happen/
The OP is spot on here. I not only agree, but see how the OP has come to such a conclusion. I too have been playing MMORPGs for a good while, and this one is solid in all categories (for me anyway). I love the champion system. It definitely rewards long-term players, which I feel is more than fair.1 -
RSram✭✭✭✭✭What about becoming emperor and keeping it? That's not an easy task for anyone to do.
And what does "End Game" content really mean?
No matter what content you put into a game, sooner or later a player will either become bored with it being repetitive, or the player will consume it wanting more.
IMO there is no such thing as "End Game" because once you reached the "End Game" your're done, it's time to play another game.1 -
NateAssassin✭✭✭✭✭I really don't understand what everyone means by "end game" unless it is the max level gear and same set up everyone has. IMO end game should be how you want it to end, whether you end it with the same old gear every V14 has or with your own unique set up.
Gear checks are needed to some degree, you won't want someone running a V1 dungeon with rawhide armor, but people who want you to have an exact set up shouldn't judge you instantly, you could be 3x better than them and have a less than desirable set up. Skill shouldn't be decided based on gear, after all you make a set up for your playstyle, for you a set up can be really good but be terrible for someone else because of your playstyle.AD | Malaya the Mystic ─ VR16 Khajiit Sorc | Shal'ina the Swift ─ VR16 Khajiit NB | Jòhn Cena ─ VR1 Khajiit NB | Priestess Shaari ─ VR1 Temp0 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭After playing so many MMOs over the last Decade, I really believe that ESO is the best MMO. Some people complain about the so called and famous "endgame" but I find ESO progression system the best of all.
There are 4 ways to have your MMO "endgame"
1) The wow style. Gear treadmill...you go after a set of gear by doing repetitive tasks, actually by just doing the same raid over and over for 4-5 months while all other game content is irrelevant. And after 5 months, there is a new raid with better gear that you run for the next 5 months. In the meanwhile, the gear you managed to get after 5 months of repetitive content, is now being given to others in a week or 2 in order to "catch up"
2) The GW2 style. No gear treadmill but no increase in power through other means. You play for Vanity items and for fun. While much better (imo) from the (1) method, still gets you bored sometimes. GW2 does included the Ascended gear also, after the exotic, but this is not a gear treadmill but more of a long term goal to catch, without resets. You still play for vanity. PVP ranks just give you costumes..
3) The ESO style. No gear treadmill but you continue progress your characters slowly through the champion points system. This method does not funnel you through a specific way of play and does not punish you by having and playing alts. There may be a more efficient and less efficient ways to progress that way, but the key is that there are alternatives.
You can play however you like, whoever character you like and still progress in your own pace..It may leave a gap between veteran and new players, but on the same time does not throw to the garbage all your "hard earning" progression, nor giving for free to others what you achieved, like the (1) method.
4)The EVE style. While I have not played EVE, I have read about it. In eve the are no levels but you build ships and put upgrades on them. The upgrade system works like research works in ESO. You put a skill or upgrade in a que and you wait x days or weeks until it completes.
Like method (3) it creates a gap between new players and veteran ones, but on the same time as said, progressing your account does not feel worthless and what you have achieved will not obsolete by a patch.
- EvE does not come with "endgame", as seen as some sort of goal you progress towards. You can do many different things with different degrees of performance.
- EvE achieves something few other MMOs do: you get horizontal progression (many "mini games") but within it you get vertical progression (different module / ships tiers you get in a way different but fairer than ESO (*)) BUT at the same time you are not "useless" if you aren't at the top of the game yet.
This is something that needs to be experienced first person to understand it and surpasses ESO tenfold.
(*) How EVE is fairer: you get to achieve something like "champion points" but with dozens of very short path "branches". Whereas in ESO you need years to complete a branch, in EvE you get fairly competent in some weeks (longer for very advanced skills) in a specialization you select.
Also, here's how you manage to be powerful and even outcome changing even with a rookie ship: you can equip some powerful modules like a web (snare) or warp scrambler (undispellable "root") in a 200,000 ISK ship and decide the death of a 250,000,000 ISK ship. Sometimes more.
Edited by Vahrokh on June 5, 2015 9:11PMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
NateAssassin wrote: »I really don't understand what everyone means by "end game" unless it is the max level gear and same set up everyone has. IMO end game should be how you want it to end, whether you end it with the same old gear every V14 has or with your own unique set up.
Gear checks are needed to some degree, you won't want someone running a V1 dungeon with rawhide armor, but people who want you to have an exact set up shouldn't judge you instantly, you could be 3x better than them and have a less than desirable set up. Skill shouldn't be decided based on gear, after all you make a set up for your playstyle, for you a set up can be really good but be terrible for someone else because of your playstyle.
end-game is a relative term that adjust and evolves with the game's content. typically "end-game" is considered max level, though some have started to include raid/raid gear to be "end-game". its not based very heavy on the actual END of the game, since MMOs aren't supposed to have an end to the game. think like my end-game goal right now is to make $10K for my business. clearly i don't mean i literally want to make 10 grand then stop making an income, thats just a goal i have at the end of a time period (1 year). right now it seems like ZoS consideres end game, to be about grinding CPs endlessly for seemingly no reason, since raids and PVP are lackluster atmEdited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on June 5, 2015 9:14PMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19180 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Knootewoot wrote: »Meh not the best MMO for me. I liked pre-cu SWG the best and after that Vanguard and after that Warhammer Online. It's a matter of opinion. But then, all the games I liked best died so not all shared my opinion as well.
"Oh I'm afraid the game won't be long operational when Knootewoot has arrived."
SWG: No end game. But enough "toys" and mini-games to keep people occupied.
Vanguard: To much to do to worry about endgame. Also enough toys.
WarHammer: The PvP servers were awesome. PvP is engame enough for some game (for me also in TESO PvP is the only thing, but if you don't play you don't get CP's and you get behind to much is not fun)
I miss WAR so much. Once they fixed the huge bugs and levelled classes imbalances, that became the most epic and awesome sword and board PvP game EVER. I have been RR 100 for a long time yet I kept playing WAR hours a day and enjoyed it until the last second of the last server being online.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
Woolenthreads✭✭✭✭
I have never tried WOW or GW1/2.After playing so many MMOs over the last Decade, I really believe that ESO is the best MMO. Some people complain about the so called and famous "endgame" but I find ESO progression system the best of all.
There are 4 ways to have your MMO "endgame"
1) The wow style. Gear treadmill<snip>
2) The GW2 style. No gear treadmill but no increase in power through other means.<snip>
3) The ESO style. No gear treadmill but you continue progress your characters slowly<snip>
4)The EVE style. While I have not played EVE, I have read about it. In eve the are no levels but you build ships and put upgrades on them. The upgrade system works like research works in ESO. You put a skill or upgrade in a que and you wait x days or weeks until it completes.
Like method (3) it creates a gap between new players and veteran ones, but on the same time as said, progressing your account does not feel worthless and what you have achieved will not obsolete by a patch.
EVE: I played EVE for 6 years. While there is a difference in the power level of the ships Vets and Noobs are capable of flying, it's not noticeable really unless you head into zero-sec where a noob and anyone else who is not part of the group claiming said system is treated as a Trespasser. Said Claimants acting as Kentucky Hill-Clan Crazies assaulting Trespassers with the biggest Shotguns and biggest Posse they can muster
. I stopped playing because there always seemed to be a demand that I play when I needed to sleep and I was getting very bored, since I'm not into PvP. I'd almost made it to Carriers
I'm still enjoying ESO as a Single Player Game with interactions involving other players. With other Sandbox games of high note here, or soon to be here, this might change, but not yet 
Edited by Woolenthreads on June 5, 2015 9:45PMOooh look, lot's of Butterflies! Wait! Butterflies? Get out of here Sheo, stop bugging me!
Having issues with Provisioning Writs? A list of problem Writs and people willing to help in game can be found in this Thread1 -
Wolfster✭✭✭
2) The GW2 style. No gear treadmill but no increase in power through other means. You play for Vanity items and for fun. While much better (imo) from the (1) method, still gets you bored sometimes. GW2 does included the Ascended gear also, after the exotic, but this is not a gear treadmill but more of a long term goal to catch, without resets. You still play for vanity. PVP ranks just give you costumes..
GW2 actually has the WORST gear treadmill based on gating content with the agony stat.0 -
dafox187✭✭✭i like 2 and 4 the best it would be all the way eso if they had some sort of thing to keep us busy upgrading while we waited for dlcs cough cough houses cough cough
don't get mad at my spelling, autocorrect doesn't cover fantasy.
Why couldn't the Khajiit go to the party? She had to be Elsweyr.0 -
SeptimusDova✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hope Zenimax takes this as a lesson learned and releases large content before attempting another big development with the same devs who are already maintaining a game. Sigma Six Zen? I wish them well and hope you guys and gals don't have to endure much longer.0