Should the quest limit cap be removed?

Ourorboros · May 2015

TL;DR Being allowed only 25 quests in queue is too limiting. Unless there is a hardware or software rationale for this limit, the quest cap should be at the least doubled or even be unlimited.

I am an achievement hunter, and one achievement is for quests completed. I thought I was doing pretty well at this, since I turn all maps white before I leave. Then I read this thread a few days ago http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/171733/help-finding-missing-quest, and discovered Quest Map add-on. Now I can see a number of quests that I missed. Some of these are the simple fetch and carry quests that give little XP. Some of them have been multi-step quests with substantial XP. What has this got to do with the 25 quest limit? I remember running into some of these quests during my exploration, and not adding them. Often this was because I explored zones when I was way under-leveled to fish or get skyshards and books. I knew I couldn't do the quest, so no reason to add it, since it would fill my limited quest queue. I thought I would find the quests again later. Sometimes I did, but as Quest Map has shown me, not always. I have not seen a single zone with at least one uncompleted quest. Not only do I want these quests for the achievement, but also for XP/CP.

I did a search before starting this poll and found only one thread, from May 2014, about the limit. There were a few posts that suggested tracking a greater number of quests multiplied by the player base would basically overload the server. I am not a programmer, but it seems to me that this kind of database query is exactly the kind of thing that computers were made for in the first place. So, make yourself heard. Would you like to see the quest limit raised or completely removed? Or if you are someone with software or hardware experience, please explain why this is an unreasonable request.

A final note: going forward, Quest Map seems to have addressed missing quests, so thank you to the author. Another solution, one I wish I had thought of many months ago, would be to mark your map with another add-on Custom Pins. so you can make you way back to them in the future.

Ffastyl · May 2015

Other

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otAkP5VjIv8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur6GQp5mCYs

The quest limit should be reduced, as already we are bombarded with enough text to have a disturbing majority not care for lore/story.

tl;dr Watch the videos, particularly the second one.

odenthalb16_ESO · May 2015

Ffastyl wrote: »

[...]

SO - TRUE

UrQuan · May 2015

Hmm, I've never had this be an issue. I typically do all of the quests in one portion of the map before moving on to the next portion (where possible - quests that range all over the map irritate the part of me that likes to do everything in one area before moving on, but at the same time the part of me appreciates them for being realistic - not all quests should have nearby resolutions).

I think it's because that's ingrained in me from games like Bladur's Gate where it always made sense to completely do everything in each map area before moving on, and only coming back later if some later quest sends you there. Actually, I think it goes even further back than that - I think I get it from playing through B1: The Keep on the Borderlands when I would methodically work through each cave system, starting with the easier ones at the bottom, and working my way up.

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2015

No, the quest limit is fine. It's too confusing having more quests.

Quest limit is fine, but NOT because it's confusing to have more quests, but because they are supposed to be done in a certain order, to make sense lore-wise and journey-wise. It participates to immersion.

Powtreeman · May 2015

Yes, players should be able to carry an unlimited number of quests if they choose.

Ffastyl wrote: »

The quest limit should be reduced, as already we are bombarded with enough text to have a disturbing majority not care for lore/story.

tl;dr Watch the videos, particularly the second one.

If you try the game Tibia, which was actually the first MMORPG made in Germany, it has quests like that.
It is 2D and overhead view and not an easy game at all.
You die, you lose exp or even levels. You lose the things you are holding. Its a sort of survival fantasy game.

Ourorboros · May 2015

Yes, players should be able to carry an unlimited number of quests if they choose.

Ffastyl wrote: »

The quest limit should be reduced, as already we are bombarded with enough text to have a disturbing majority not care for lore/story.

tl;dr Watch the videos, particularly the second one.

Interesting vid, not exactly on topic, however. This was not about the quality of quests, or even about the texts of the quests themselves. It's about our ability to keep track of the quests. The only real question in my mind is whether raising the quest limit is beyond the server capability. Whether a journal add-on or the default journal is used, the tools to keep quests organized already exist. I'd like to see some professional opinions about what this would do to the server, or whether ZOS has either under-powered the server or imposed a random quest limit. I happen to agree with the point about too much text in some quest. I frequently go through the quest dialogs as fast as I can. After more than a year, I'm finally in last two Gold zones, and that's skipping dialog. I don't object to it being there though, since there are players who want to savor every word. I just don't want to give the game THAT much time. I spend too much time online as it is.

Ourorboros · May 2015

Yes, players should be able to carry an unlimited number of quests if they choose.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Quest limit is fine, but NOT because it's confusing to have more quests, but because they are supposed to be done in a certain order, to make sense lore-wise and journey-wise. It participates to immersion.

There are quest that MUST be done in a certain order. You don't get the next quest prompt until the prior one is done. However, the vast majority of quests can be done in any order BY DESIGN. It encourages map exploration. In theory, a lvl 6 character can make his way to the final zone and start any number of quests there. He likely won't be able to complete it, but only because of being under leveled versus the mobs, not by quest limitation.

Nestor · May 2015

Yes, 25 quests is too low. There should be a cap, but it should be higher.

Besides the cluttered Journal it could also cause an issue with the game performance as each quest we have open generates a quest arrow. We would have to be able to flag quests to be not tracked until we are ready.

Here is the other thing to think about. Somebody could bank a pile of quests from the leveling zones then turn them in when they start earning CPs at VR Ranks. We can do that now by skipping the quests but it at least requires us to acquire the quests and do them and we get limited/no mob benefit. In this scheme, we could almost complete the quests, get all the on level benefits from the mobs, then come back and farm CPs just for turning them in.

Darlgon · May 2015

Ffastyl wrote: »

The quest limit should be reduced, as already we are bombarded with enough text to have a disturbing majority not care for lore/story.

tl;dr Watch the videos, particularly the second one.

While i PERSONALLY dont want the number of quests reduced, EC does have some good points. I however, am a completionist, so I also dont leave an area until all the quests are done. In this game, that may mean that I go to a new area and pick up 6 "tasks" while turning in six others, with the three main quest lines on the back burner.

Daemons_Bane · May 2015

Other

I say no, but not because it's confusing.. But I've simply never had trouble with the limit.. It works just fine if you don't run all over the map and takes every quest you find.. Complete the quests one area at a time, and if one of them is a chain it will lead you to the next area in due time

Ourorboros · May 2015

Yes, players should be able to carry an unlimited number of quests if they choose.

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

I say no, but not because it's confusing.. But I've simply never had trouble with the limit.. It works just fine if you don't run all over the map and takes every quest you find.. Complete the quests one area at a time, and if one of them is a chain it will lead you to the next area in due time

Different strokes for different folks. Getting Master Angler required me to 'run all over the map'. And this was after Champion system was announced, so I intentionally did not do quests I ran into so I could get CP when I did do them. The point of removing the limit is that I could have added the quests to my journal and gone back to complete them when I was ready. This is not a big deal for quests that start next to a wayshrine or some place the game sends you. It becomes more of an issue for that random note or skeleton you find in the middle of nowhere, that you have no clue where to find again later.

Ourorboros · May 2015

Yes, players should be able to carry an unlimited number of quests if they choose.

Nestor wrote: »

Besides the cluttered Journal it could also cause an issue with the game performance as each quest we have open generates a quest arrow. We would have to be able to flag quests to be not tracked until we are ready.

Here is the other thing to think about. Somebody could bank a pile of quests from the leveling zones then turn them in when they start earning CPs at VR Ranks. We can do that now by skipping the quests but it at least requires us to acquire the quests and do them and we get limited/no mob benefit. In this scheme, we could almost complete the quests, get all the on level benefits from the mobs, then come back and farm CPs just for turning them in.

Not sure if you are implying from your 2nd paragraph if that is a good thing or a bad thing. It's essentially what I did as soon as the Champion system was announced. I stopped doing quests. Since 1.6 dropped, it has been a nice boon to get a lot of CP at VR14 by questing rather than grinding, which puts me to sleep. Until finding the Quest Map add-on however, finding some of the more remote quests was hit or miss. Turning the map white was no guarantee of doing all quests in a zone. It would be nice to be able to add an unlimited number of quests so I could add any quest I find regardless of zone or level, so I don't have to re-explore a map to find a quest I stumbled on while fishing 3 months ago.

Daemons_Bane · May 2015

Other

Meh, to me it honestly sound like a waste of resources as things are now.. Of course it could be added at some future date, but I see it being really far down tbe list.. Also I like not having too many quests as one just risks mixing them up, forgetting what's what and missing fluff/lore

Ffastyl · May 2015

Other

Ourorboros wrote: »

Interesting vid, not exactly on topic, however. This was not about the quality of quests, or even about the texts of the quests themselves. It's about our ability to keep track of the quests.

The pertinent part comes in the second half of the second video, however I felt just giving that segment lacked context.

A quest limit will not prevent a player from completing all quests, no more than a lack of a quest limit (look to The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim). However, the limit will impact how players view and interact with quests.
I personally think a majority of the playerbase is missing out on arguably most of ESO by not caring for the lore and lowering the quest limit may address that.

But that is a topic related but not relevant to your question.
To attempt an unbiased view, here are the cons to increasing and decreasing the quest limit that I see.

Increasing the quest limit creates a larger backlog of quests.
Under the present system of 25 quests, I have a couple backlogged that I have put off for weeks or months.
At the extreme of removing the quest limit, in Skyrim I have over 20 unfinished quests sitting in the log. They are sitting there because I found another quest after accepting the first, and chose to pursue the new quest over the old, ultimately abandoning the earlier quest(s).
With a reduced quest limit, some quests will be missed because a limited number can be pursued simultaneously. The quests can be returned to after completing or abandoning a quest, opening a slot, but where the quest started may be forgotten.

A true completionist will muster the will to slog through the backlog of quests in an increased quest cap and in a reduced quest cap the completionist will look up online and inquire ingame about missed quests. Ultimately, all quests are completed for those who want to complete them all.

Etrian Odyssey restricts the quest log to 5 and 1 Story Mission, so I have experience in both ends of the spectrum. Limiting the quests the player can pursue simultaneously enhances the experience of each quest. The log does not become a checklist and the quests are not reduced to chores.

drschplatt · May 2015

Yes, 25 quests is too low. There should be a cap, but it should be higher.

ZOS needs to go take a seminar from Turbine on quest design. While I weep that LOTRO has been killed due to a complete lack of attention to end game for the past year, there is no one better at quest design and world building. I found myself caring and in awe of the various zones in LOTRO. In ESO, I really find myself unable to give a crap about much of anything happening because it doesn't connect at all. The zones, monsters and environments are all pretty identical, there's no connecting thread once you get past level 50 and the great walls of text with the painfully slow voiceover kills the mood.

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2015

No, the quest limit is fine. It's too confusing having more quests.

Ourorboros wrote: »

There are quest that MUST be done in a certain order. You don't get the next quest prompt until the prior one is done. However, the vast majority of quests can be done in any order BY DESIGN. It encourages map exploration. In theory, a lvl 6 character can make his way to the final zone and start any number of quests there. He likely won't be able to complete it, but only because of being under leveled versus the mobs, not by quest limitation.

That is not what I meant.

Ffastyl wrote: »

I personally think a majority of the playerbase is missing out on arguably most of ESO by not caring for the lore and lowering the quest limit may address that.
.../...Limiting the quests the player can pursue simultaneously enhances the experience of each quest. The log does not become a checklist and the quests are not reduced to chores.

^This is what I meant.

Quests are about discovering a universe and a story, and not only the main quests. The sidequests also have their special storytelling construction. Quests should not be the "to do list" that min/maxers would inevitably make it be if the journal was not limited. (Not even considering the "XP/CP optimization" that someone mentioned above).

Some of my guildies have levelled more than 5 characters to VR14... they still don't have a clue as to who King Emeric, Queen Ayrenn or Jorunn (lore-wise) are, what a skald is, why it is so difficult for argonians and dunmers to be in one alliance, or what a talespinner is. At best, they remember Razum-Dar 'cause he's a "funny khajiit". OK, the size of the quest journal is not going to change them, but at least it can prevent players who are somewhat ready to enjoy immersion to not fall down the same slippery slope an exhaustive list of "to-do-quests" would tempt them into.

(I agree about the painfully slow voice-overs though, that's a killer. There's is something missing, even though I could not possible identify it, that makes it really difficult to get "involved" in ESO's stories, but that's a different topic I suppose).

Ourorboros · May 2015

Yes, players should be able to carry an unlimited number of quests if they choose.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

There are quest that MUST be done in a certain order. You don't get the next quest prompt until the prior one is done. However, the vast majority of quests can be done in any order BY DESIGN. It encourages map exploration. In theory, a lvl 6 character can make his way to the final zone and start any number of quests there. He likely won't be able to complete it, but only because of being under leveled versus the mobs, not by quest limitation.

That is not what I meant.

Ffastyl wrote: »

I personally think a majority of the playerbase is missing out on arguably most of ESO by not caring for the lore and lowering the quest limit may address that.
.../...Limiting the quests the player can pursue simultaneously enhances the experience of each quest. The log does not become a checklist and the quests are not reduced to chores.

^This is what I meant.

Quests are about discovering a universe and a story, and not only the main quests. The sidequests also have their special storytelling construction. Quests should not be the "to do list" that min/maxers would inevitably make it be if the journal was not limited. (Not even considering the "XP/CP optimization" that someone mentioned above).

Some of my guildies have levelled more than 5 characters to VR14... they still don't have a clue as to who King Emeric, Queen Ayrenn or Jorunn (lore-wise) are, what a skald is, why it is so difficult for argonians and dunmers to be in one alliance, or what a talespinner is. At best, they remember Razum-Dar 'cause he's a "funny khajiit". OK, the size of the quest journal is not going to change them, but at least it can prevent players who are somewhat ready to enjoy immersion to not fall down the same slippery slope an exhaustive list of "to-do-quests" would tempt them into.

(I agree about the painfully slow voice-overs though, that's a killer).

The lore based approach works for you. But like I said earlier, different strokes for different folks. I appreciate some of the stories with quests, but frankly I don't have time for all the stories. I just want to check off the list on my way to 1500 quests achievement ( yes, I know there may not be that many quests in the game yet).

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2015

No, the quest limit is fine. It's too confusing having more quests.

Ourorboros wrote: »

The lore based approach works for you. But like I said earlier, different strokes for different folks. I appreciate some of the stories with quests, but frankly I don't have time for all the stories. I just want to check off the list on my way to 1500 quests achievement ( yes, I know there may not be that many quests in the game yet).

You are a master angler (which means that you spent hours and hours waiting arounf fishing holes) and you mean that you don't have *time* for quests ??? hum... don't get me wrong, I have the deepest respect for master anglers because I know how painful it is to get that achievement... but then I am sorry that you could not find enjoyment in questing.

To each his own... but it looks to me like always having all possible kinds of food ready in the fridge... without ever feeling like eating anything :-)

Anyway, for your information there is an add-on called "Harven's Quest Journal" which keeps track of the quests you've completed (a feature missing in ESO imho) and you might double-check it with a list of quests from the internet.

Ourorboros · May 2015

Yes, players should be able to carry an unlimited number of quests if they choose.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

The lore based approach works for you. But like I said earlier, different strokes for different folks. I appreciate some of the stories with quests, but frankly I don't have time for all the stories. I just want to check off the list on my way to 1500 quests achievement ( yes, I know there may not be that many quests in the game yet).

You are a master angler (which means that you spent hours and hours waiting arounf fishing holes) and you mean that you don't have *time* for quests ??? hum... don't get me wrong, I have the deepest respect for master anglers because I know how painful it is to get that achievement... but then I am sorry that you could not find enjoyment in questing.

To each his own... but it looks to me like always having all possible kinds of food ready in the fridge... without ever feeling like eating anything :-)

Anyway, for your information there is an add-on called "Harven's Quest Journal" which keeps track of the quests you've completed (a feature missing in ESO imho) and you might double-check it with a list of quests from the internet.

Please leave your judgement of my game play out of this. I certainly am not judging you for enjoying your style of game play.
I use Quest Journal, but it does not point to quests you haven't found. Yea, I did spend hours fishing, and now that I have the title, got the achievement, I no longer fish. How I spend my time in game is my business, not yours. I want your opinion of quest limits, not my game style. Please stick to the topic within COC or don't post.

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2015

No, the quest limit is fine. It's too confusing having more quests.

Judgement ??? Where have you seen judgement in my words ?

Doesn't matter anyway, I was merely saying that if you are a master angler, it means that you have, or used to have time. And if you don't read the quests it is not because you don't have the time, it is because you don't like it. Therefore it makes little sense that you want to do them all and to be absolutely sure to have done them all. No judgement, just pure logic.

Now if you like doing things that you don't like for the sake of an achievement (quests) or spending time that you don't have (fishing) also for the sake of an achievement (master angler), that is indeed your playstyle (pure completionist) and I do not judge that in any way, BUT if you ask wether the tools ingame like the quest journal should be organized around this objective (which is the topic of this thread and that is why I post on it), then my answer is NO, regardless if my reasons work for you or not (else, why ask for people's opinion ?)

The 1500 quest achievemnt is not doable at the moment anyway.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2015

Other

I don't have a magic number but I imagine we can just pop over and do a few and then pop back. I've definitely ran into situations where I had too many quests but I was able to complete 4-5 and grab new quests.
Out of the 25 you have, What are you not able to complete.

UrQuan · May 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

You are a master angler (which means that you spent hours and hours waiting arounf fishing holes) and you mean that you don't have *time* for quests ??? hum... don't get me wrong, I have the deepest respect for master anglers because I know how painful it is to get that achievement...

I don't have the achievement yet, but getting to it is much less painful when you're fishing with friends. Especially when it's a drunken fishing event on teamspeak

Merlin13KAGL · May 2015

Other

It's not that big of a deal to go through and clear out some 'greys' when you need an open spot.

You should have the option to accept a new quest and drop an existing (in that order) when one comes up. Little more irritating than receiving an Event Invite and being unable to accept because your queue is full.

ADarklore · May 2015

No, the quest limit is fine. It's too confusing having more quests.

I have talked to many players of Skyrim who quit playing because of being overwhelmed by having too many quests at once, so I can understand how they would want to stop that from happening in ESO.

I've also read that ESO was designed around the storyline, and thus, players are 'encouraged' to take the time to enjoy the story. I've never understood the fascination some players have with racing to the top, only to then complain about lack of content while they wait for the next DLC- I've seen that in other MMOs as well. Perhaps it is because some players are accustomed to racing to 'beat the game' and then moving on, that they come into an MMO with the same mindset, I just don't understand it. The last MMO I played, I did exactly that, raced to the top because I thought there was something to be gained because that is what everyone was doing... and instead found myself with nothing to do, and worse, when a DLC came out and it sucked, I had more months to wait for something to do. With ESO, I am taking my time, enjoying the surroundings, doing quests per zone, then farming mats and leveling some crafting, etc. So far I'm loving the game, and knowing that there are months of content ahead, there is absolutely no reason for me to rush.

Haqikah · May 2015

Yes, players should be able to carry an unlimited number of quests if they choose.

I have yet to stumble against the quest queue limitation. This is probably due to my playing style to explore a zone completely (gaining various achievements on the way), regularly looking on the map where overly blank areas are before venturing into the next area.

Besides that I feel it can be handy for people with other playstyles to have some sort of backlog of quests they still can do.

Ourorboros · May 2015

Yes, players should be able to carry an unlimited number of quests if they choose.

ADarklore wrote: »

I have talked to many players of Skyrim who quit playing because of being overwhelmed by having too many quests at once, so I can understand how they would want to stop that from happening in ESO.

I've also read that ESO was designed around the storyline, and thus, players are 'encouraged' to take the time to enjoy the story. I've never understood the fascination some players have with racing to the top, only to then complain about lack of content while they wait for the next DLC- I've seen that in other MMOs as well. Perhaps it is because some players are accustomed to racing to 'beat the game' and then moving on, that they come into an MMO with the same mindset, I just don't understand it. The last MMO I played, I did exactly that, raced to the top because I thought there was something to be gained because that is what everyone was doing... and instead found myself with nothing to do, and worse, when a DLC came out and it sucked, I had more months to wait for something to do. With ESO, I am taking my time, enjoying the surroundings, doing quests per zone, then farming mats and leveling some crafting, etc. So far I'm loving the game, and knowing that there are months of content ahead, there is absolutely no reason for me to rush.

First, no one is forced to accept quests. For those overwhelmed by a large quest queue, the simple solution is control yourself and don't bite off more than you want to chew. Why should this be coded into the game and force everyone to be limited for what amounts to a play style issue? From my perspective, only hardware/software limitations should control the quest limit. The rest is a matter of choice. As to pacing the content and enjoying the game versus racing to the highest level, again it is a matter of personal choice. Since I have yet to complete Gold on my first character, I can't be accused of racing to the end. Yet I did explore the whole map as soon as I could (needed those skyshards since my main is also maxed in all crafts), and as a result I found many quests. I didn't add them, as I was under leveled and couldn't do them, but also becuase I had to leave room for quests I could do. Unless there are server limitations, why shouldn't an intrepid explorer be allowed to queue those quests as they are found, and complete them when able. That's a play style issue.

Pallmor · May 2015

Other

I would like to answer this question. But you see, my farm was recently attacked. And, as you can see by me holding my arm and breathing heavily, I'm far too hurt to answer this question, or help you in any way really.

However, if you would be so kind as to single-handedly go and slaughter the entire gang of trolls who attacked my farm while myself and my family stand here and do nothing, then I would be more than happy to answer your question--and also give you a worthless sword.

gard · May 2015

After reading the thread, I still don't really see how having a limit to currently active quests accomplishes anything in regards to making questing more interesting.

If you really want to do away with the "checklist" mentality during questing, the thing to do would be to remove the quest markers.

That would force the player to explore, to talk to more NPCs and to actually read the dialog.

I'm at work now and can't check to make sure, but isn't there an option to do just that in game settings?
If not, there should be.

If not, it's not something that should be forced on everyone, because I think the majority of people would hate it.

Chuggernaut · May 2015

Other

I went with other, but would have gone with No if It's too confusing having more quests. was omitted.

That being said, I've never hit the limit and to be honest didn't know the game had one till this thread.

Do you run the zone and talk to everyone before you get to work or what?

Ffastyl · May 2015

Other

gard wrote: »

If you really want to do away with the "checklist" mentality during questing, the thing to do would be to remove the quest markers.

There are ingame settings to turn Quest Giver icons off and to change what quest icons appear on the compass. There is an add-on (PinKiller) to further remove quest icons from the UI (floating arrows) and world map.

I think the default for Quest Gives should be off.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Should the quest limit cap be removed?

Should the quest limit cap be removed? 131 votes