Guild vs Guild Tournament

Earendal · May 2015

Havoc has been doing 10v10's with a couple other guilds/pug groups and it seems to be the ideal number. It allows for some variation in composition while keeping burst to an acceptable level. We have allowed people to charge ultimate before hand as that seems easier than ensuring that people are at 0ult from the get go. We've also not been allowing siege.

As far as entry fees, I don't think there is anything wrong with expecting people to pay atleast 10k per person or 100k per team. In fact, we had been planning on organizing something with an even higher entry fee and paying out to the top three teams. I would be comfortable having a leader of an established trade guild hold on to or collect any entry fees, or at least someone who is reputable in the community.

As for locations, I feel like the canyon in between Fare and Alessia is a good location, but I'm sure many others would be acceptable too. When we've had 10v10's in the past, we have done them in out of the way places further north to avoid attention without much thought to environmental factors. I do, however, think adding some LoS features could make things more interesting and challenging.

Draxys · May 2015

Crown wrote: »

Update summary:
I can host and stream the tournament

There will be no prizes, just bragging rights

People seem to want 6v6 and 12v12 matches (we'll see how many sign up for each)

Matches will be best of three

No siege allowed

Resurrections are allowed

There are no gear restrictions

Things to discuss next:
Should there be limits on classes (I don't think so, though minimum one of each would be interesting for 6v6 or 2 of each for 12v12)

How should elimination work - or should there even be elimination? I like the idea of having each group should fight each other group in a best of three series, though this isn't fair if one faction has more groups than another as points for winning a series would not be balances. I need your thoughts on this..

Bonus game of capture the flag - we put one person from each faction (I vote Sarenvog as AD flag!) at the end of a field (imagine a big triangle with the flag person at the points of the triangle) about 50 yards apart. This person will be naked (no gear equipped) and not allowed to move (blocking allowed). All three teams start on their flag. The winner is determined when both of their opponents' flags are dead, and they have stacked back on their own flag (who is alive). Resurrections allowed. There will be strategies involved of who to send as attackers vs defenders and to which side. You're not out until all your team are dead and your flag is dead.

Should also discuss rules for stealth like someone mentioned above. Can an enemy stam NB sneak away as soon as the fight starts and snipe people? My opinion is that kind of thing should not be valid for this, but something like stealthing around and attacking from behind would be fine.

Etaniel · May 2015

Crown wrote: »

Update summary:
I can host and stream the tournament

There will be no prizes, just bragging rights

People seem to want 6v6 and 12v12 matches (we'll see how many sign up for each)

Matches will be best of three

No siege allowed

Resurrections are allowed

There are no gear restrictions

Things to discuss next:
Should there be limits on classes (I don't think so, though minimum one of each would be interesting for 6v6 or 2 of each for 12v12)

How should elimination work - or should there even be elimination? I like the idea of having each group should fight each other group in a best of three series, though this isn't fair if one faction has more groups than another as points for winning a series would not be balances. I need your thoughts on this..

Bonus game of capture the flag - we put one person from each faction (I vote Sarenvog as AD flag!) at the end of a field (imagine a big triangle with the flag person at the points of the triangle) about 50 yards apart. This person will be naked (no gear equipped) and not allowed to move (blocking allowed). All three teams start on their flag. The winner is determined when both of their opponents' flags are dead, and they have stacked back on their own flag (who is alive). Resurrections allowed. There will be strategies involved of who to send as attackers vs defenders and to which side. You're not out until all your team are dead and your flag is dead.

Capture the flag sounds really fun !

Sanct16 · May 2015

I would like to see something like this on EU too as nearly all open world group encounters are on uneven terms regarding location and grip size. I think 12 would be a good group size for a guild vs guild tournament as it is big enough that actual groupplay is important (having support roles etc) but on the other small enough to not cause lag and allow most PvP guilds to participate as getting 12 players for a set date should be possible for most guilds.

Might as well have different categories tho like 4v4 , 6v6 , 8v8 , 12v12 , 16v16 , 24v24.

Regarding rules I'd say no to sieges as using a siege to kill half if the enemies group can't be considered skillful groupplay and thats what a tournament should be about: finding the most skilled group.
As fights won't last for too long I suggest to make each match a best of x. In the first rounds best of 3, later best of 5/7.

Brizz · May 2015

You might want to consider a "Tag Team" type fight as well if you want to do a larger number of players yet keep it simple. It sounds VERY fun.

How it Works::

16v16 -

Match starts as 4v4 and cannot go over 4v4.
12 players from each team line up on the sidelines (far enough away so cheating is obvious).
If at any point one of the players on your team dies, the next person in line gets to jump in.
Match ends when a team runs out of players.

DoctorSwampy · May 2015

Crown wrote: »

Update summary:
I can host and stream the tournament

There will be no prizes, just bragging rights

People seem to want 6v6 and 12v12 matches (we'll see how many sign up for each)

Matches will be best of three

No siege allowed

Resurrections are allowed

There are no gear restrictions

Things to discuss next:
Should there be limits on classes (I don't think so, though minimum one of each would be interesting for 6v6 or 2 of each for 12v12)

How should elimination work - or should there even be elimination? I like the idea of having each group should fight each other group in a best of three series, though this isn't fair if one faction has more groups than another as points for winning a series would not be balances. I need your thoughts on this..

Bonus game of capture the flag - we put one person from each faction (I vote Sarenvog as AD flag!) at the end of a field (imagine a big triangle with the flag person at the points of the triangle) about 50 yards apart. This person will be naked (no gear equipped) and not allowed to move (blocking allowed). All three teams start on their flag. The winner is determined when both of their opponents' flags are dead, and they have stacked back on their own flag (who is alive). Resurrections allowed. There will be strategies involved of who to send as attackers vs defenders and to which side. You're not out until all your team are dead and your flag is dead.

This all sounds extremely fun Crown. I love this idea and support it 100%!
So it would be set up with a maim roster and some backups on the bench I assume?
Also, how many teams from each faction would you take in at one session?

Mystikkal · May 2015

I agree that 6v6 seems a little too small for this game. I'd be good with 10v10; let's start there. Also I think we hold off on capture the flag until these become more routine.

Crown, once you have a rule set, I'd recommend you create a new thread and ask that it is only for registration. Crown also throw out some times and see what seems to work best for people.

I also recommend you check out this thread: http://forums.tornbanner.com/showthread.php/22191-NA-6v6-TO-Tournament

It's an example of how some tourneys were run in Chivalry.

Check out this: http://challonge.com/Chivnyb This is a double elim tourney bracket.

Minno · May 2015

Mystikkal wrote: »

I think we should discuss where is a good place to do this and what the boundaries are. I can look tonight but does anyone have suggestions? I think it should be big enough that you can retreat a little but small enough where people are losing sight of people who are res'ing etc. Good terrain is key.. a spot where you can line of sight some times, but should still be pretty open-fielded. Should also be away from the action so we aren't interrupted.

I also say we do it on Thornblade.. its the least populated atm. People can then prepare for the tourney by not being homed there (therefore no one has alliance buffs)

On thornblade but around brindle, dragonclaw, or draklowe.
Less pop there, interesting locations for fights, and easy ports for most faction players.

Mystikkal · May 2015

What if you aren't allowed to go into stealth until the first attack is landed? Too hard to enforce?

Oughash · May 2015

Crown wrote: »

Update summary:
I can host and stream the tournament

There will be no prizes, just bragging rights

People seem to want 6v6 and 12v12 matches (we'll see how many sign up for each)

Matches will be best of three

No siege allowed

Resurrections are allowed

There are no gear restrictions

Things to discuss next:
Should there be limits on classes (I don't think so, though minimum one of each would be interesting for 6v6 or 2 of each for 12v12)

How should elimination work - or should there even be elimination? I like the idea of having each group should fight each other group in a best of three series, though this isn't fair if one faction has more groups than another as points for winning a series would not be balances. I need your thoughts on this..

Bonus game of capture the flag - we put one person from each faction (I vote Sarenvog as AD flag!) at the end of a field (imagine a big triangle with the flag person at the points of the triangle) about 50 yards apart. This person will be naked (no gear equipped) and not allowed to move (blocking allowed). All three teams start on their flag. The winner is determined when both of their opponents' flags are dead, and they have stacked back on their own flag (who is alive). Resurrections allowed. There will be strategies involved of who to send as attackers vs defenders and to which side. You're not out until all your team are dead and your flag is dead.

Good summary. I suggest starting a thread with tournament sign-ups. Schedule the tournament at least a week out so people can organize teams.

RE: elimination. The tourney format should be round-robin. Depending on entrants per faction, each DC team would fight each AD and EP team in a best of three. Winner is declared with the best record. Should keep things fair with respect to match ups and allow determination of a winner between teams of the same faction.

TBois · May 2015

I would put stealth restrictions on the larger group fights like 8+ or 10+. In a 4v4 or a 6v6 it is a viable tactic, and you should be able to keep track if a nightblade disappears in such small number grps.

RadioheadSh0t · May 2015

@Crown

I love the idea of GvG tourneys. I think having different size competitions would be the most fun. 6v6, 12v12, 16v16. Or 8v8, 16v16, w/e. Gives guilds of all sizes a chance to demonstrate their skill. A 6v6 GvG would certainly use different tactics than a 16v16. Don't have to do them all at the same time.

I've also thought a good idea would be to have a dedicated XvX Guild for cross-faction guilds to set up more scheduled fights and for tourneys like this and others to be set up. Something where one group could use for 'matchmaking,' and where guild leaders could communicate to set up tourneys. An XvX version of Legend, essentially.

Crown · May 2015

@Fordd : I was thinking the same - but I'm too lazy to level a Templar.

Mystikkal · May 2015

Are players allowed to be on multiple teams? This could be either their account or each toon. I'd say every account can only be on one team. Harder to enforce, but you could figure it out if people put alts on multiple teams. When guilds register, they need to submit ppls account name and toon names that they plan on playing.

Crown · May 2015

Draxys wrote: »

Should also discuss rules for stealth like someone mentioned above. Can an enemy stam NB sneak away as soon as the fight starts and snipe people? My opinion is that kind of thing should not be valid for this, but something like stealthing around and attacking from behind would be fine.

My first thought when thinking of a 6v6 group was to have 5 NBs and 1 templar, with the NBs all stealth immediately, Ambush/Surprise/Wrecking two coordinated targets to get them out of the way, then it's 4v6. It's a viable strategy and is a "working as intended" mechanic of the game. Mage Light and detect pots will likely be required for the tourney ;-)

Crown · May 2015

Brizz wrote: »

You might want to consider a "Tag Team" type fight as well if you want to do a larger number of players yet keep it simple. It sounds VERY fun.

How it Works::

16v16 -

Match starts as 4v4 and cannot go over 4v4.

12 players from each team line up on the sidelines (far enough away so cheating is obvious).

If at any point one of the players on your team dies, the next person in line gets to jump in.

Match ends when a team runs out of players.

This is also an awesome idea. Does anyone have a good "vote on a topic" or polling resource / web site (that is free) for me to put up some options and see what sort of responses we get?

Armitas · May 2015

When I imagine a 16v16 all I see is two zergs forming the green caterpillar, smashing into each other and spamming steal tornado and impulse in a giant amoeba. 6v6 sounds more like a tournament worth watching.

CN_Daniel · May 2015

I'd love to do a 48 vs 48. My team just isn't optimized for such small numbers.

edit: but count us in for whatever size is agreed to.

-NPK

Crown · May 2015

Armitas wrote: »

When I imagine a 16v16 all I see is two zergs forming the green caterpillar, smashing into each other and spamming steal tornado and impulse in a giant amoeba. 6v6 sounds more like a tournament worth watching.

That's one of the challenges in group play right now.. The team with the most Nirn Gear + Well timed Proxy Det + {Tornado + Springs} Spam tends to win regardless of skill. I'd like to avoid seeing that in the tourney from every person at the same time.

Trayyacakes · May 2015

I would say nirn gear should not be used in a competitive tournament, but that's just me.

Crown · May 2015

Mystikkal wrote: »

Are players allowed to be on multiple teams? This could be either their account or each toon. I'd say every account can only be on one team. Harder to enforce, but you could figure it out if people put alts on multiple teams. When guilds register, they need to submit ppls account name and toon names that they plan on playing.

I believe that each toon should only be on one team, though an account with multiple toons that run in different guilds should be able to participate in each team. The counter to that is that there are people who will want to make non-guild teams (which will make for better participation and more interesting teams).

Perhaps the 12v12 bracket should be Guild Only (which in my case would limit me to Misfitz, Decibel, Purple, RAGE, or PvP Alliance), though the 6v6 bracket could be anything (in my case I sometimes go 3-4 person ganking with others who are in none of those guilds.

It would be interesting to have a "Group Leaders Only" team" restricted to only people who lead groups.

Crown · May 2015

Trayyacakes wrote: »

I would say nirn gear should not be used in a competitive tournament, but that's just me.

*SHOULD* is a very difficult term. There's no way to regulate it at present, and there are a lot of PvPers who have put a lot of resources into their gear. Forcing them to change it isn't really fair to them.

Ezareth · May 2015

I don't think it should involve an entry fee or prize. People are signing up to win gold. People who think they could perform well but not win the tournament would feel less inclined to join however and I think that would be a loss for the competition.

I'd put together a 6 or an 8 man group. 12 or 16 is too much as we'd have to include less optimal players as "filler" where other guilds would not.

RadioheadSh0t · May 2015

I don't agree with the '16v16' is no skill premise.

I get that people with smaller guilds would want a chance to compete, and I'd love to see/compete in 6v6s, 8v8s, but I'd also love to see top guilds battle it out with 12 or 16 man groups. I've done these before, and they're a lot of fun. Some of my favorite fights in PvP are even numbered open-field battles with a raid.

Small group is no more or less skillful than running in an organized raid, they're just different. I get very tired of this false premise. I've played in both, and enjoy both. That's why id like to see both.

Draxys · May 2015

NPK Daniel wrote: »

I'd love to do a 48 vs 48. My team just isn't optimized for such small numbers.

edit: but count us in for whatever size is agreed to.

-NPK

frozywozy · May 2015

Draxys wrote: »

NPK Daniel wrote: »

I'd love to do a 48 vs 48. My team just isn't optimized for such small numbers.

edit: but count us in for whatever size is agreed to.

-NPK

lmfao

Crown · May 2015

Mystikkal wrote: »

You can't regulate it and you can't expect people to go craft new legendary armor for this... if you think it's that over the top then don't run magicka...

Perhaps not gold gear, though re-crafting purple gear is within reasonable expectations for a group that is running optimized.

Crown · May 2015

While I have peoples' attention here, I would greatly appreciate any help anyone can provide for this problem:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/171717/battle-spirit-buff-not-being-applied

I've not been able to PvP for a few days (I'm not normally outside my home campaign so have no idea how long this has been the case for me).

Kupoking · May 2015

The idea in itself is a good.

What I dont like about it is : to put teams of people who totally hate each other in a structured / fair / respectful environment and expect them to act in those manner.

I've tried something similar before, thinking it would be fair-play and respectful. Ended up being a who-can-***-farther kind of thing with trash-talk and zero respect. People in this game seems to have a lot to proove and use those instead of doing so on the field, playing the real game, which is detrimental to any type of 'sporting' event like that.

Armitas · May 2015

I don't have a templar but I think it would be fun to have a laser tag free 4 all. The only skills allowed are lasers (Radiant Destruction and soul Assault). You can pot for a heal but thats it, lasers only.