PvP is broken

kkravaritieb17_ESO · May 2015

Indeed.

Vizier · May 2015

Juraigr wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Ulti regen was the stupidest change ever made in this game. Why should a noob spamming light attacks on me while fighting 10+ players get the same ulti regen as me...makes total sense. GG ZOS you killed your own game. RIP PVP.

OH I know. It made total sense to be able to continuously run ultimate abilities like Batswarm while healing yourself. It was SOOO good for PvP. (I haven't forgotten that BS bud. And others should remember the bull pucky too.)

Ultimate regen right now is at a reasonable level. imagine that. you actually have to use your weapons for ultimate generation.

Lol no its not

Yes it is :-P

Vizier · May 2015

Juraigr wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Ulti regen was the stupidest change ever made in this game. Why should a noob spamming light attacks on me while fighting 10+ players get the same ulti regen as me...makes total sense. GG ZOS you killed your own game. RIP PVP.

OH I know. It made total sense to be able to continuously run ultimate abilities like Batswarm while healing yourself. It was SOOO good for PvP. (I haven't forgotten that BS bud. And others should remember the bull pucky too.)

Ultimate regen right now is at a reasonable level. imagine that. you actually have to use your weapons for ultimate generation.

What reasonable level? Because its so fair when you re outnumbered 5:1 people that just stand around you and do light attacks and ranged spells having the same ulti regen as you. And i say that not having played at all dk seriously before 1.6, because my main is a templar. Good thing this ulti regen everybody is hiding behind numbers and demonstrate their depthless skill by applying their face on the keyboard and press 1 button. If you think ulti regen is fine you re so deluded, probably one of the zerglings hiding behind 50 people and emoting when they kill you 50vs10.

Numbers=Skill.

This exactly right here, why should i be be penalized for trying to fight many people on one?? very clear in the video not trying to toot my horn so apologies but when that raid was trying to hide we timed our ulti drops in order to maximize our own dps and minimize theirs and healing, which is EXACTLY what the ultimates where advertised to do. This new system just favors numbers as everyone is pointing out and im glad to see im not alone in this even if i do play dk. (and i still am playing dk even though i have a sorc)

How for **** sake are you penalized? Who ever said you should be able to spam ultimate merely because there are lots of enemies around. You are not penalized in any way shape or form. It is utterly ridiculous to suggest "ultimate" advantage should tip toward those spamming AOE vs larger numbers.

And to cry about things people zerging because there's more power with more people? What? It would seem logical that more people = more ability to dps and survive.

WHAT some folks are whining about is their inability to rotate the same 2 to 3 buttons to heal and drop bombs every 5 seconds. For the unthinking masses they blob. Water seeks the path of least resistance..shrug.

BUT there are some guilds out there that PROVE day after day smaller numbers can WTF PWN larger groups consistently. Shortbus, Legend to name a couple. (I am not a member of either guild but I absolutely respect what they are able to pull off through superior tactics, strategy and skill.) I play solo or in small groups pretty exclusively. The above mentioned notion that blobbing is the only way for PvP to go right now is just plain false.

I'm not saying we are not seeing more zerging, cuz I think we are but it's not because of ultimate generation. IMO it's because there is protection in numbers and small groups and gankers with the element of surprise have turned travelling alone or in too small a group a death sentence. It's definitely NOT due to reduced ultimate generation.

What we'd see again if ultimate generation was brought back to previous levels are demigod players and unkillable small groups farming AP in towers, small towers and windmills. I don't miss that crud one bit. Do you?

sagitter · May 2015

Omg jurra, stop complaining lol, almost Every day you complain about this in arena guild chat.Dk is not bugged god mode battle roar + stupid old ultimate regen passive \ unkillable batswarmer + ultimate decrease 3 stacking sets,vs 10+ ppl, anymore, deal with it mate. I have a dk too, and I refused to play it before 1.6 , I felt like I was cheating using that class.Now you can see the real skill of a player using a dk, and the game is more balanced . I m with you when you talk about attack animations, I think that was better before.

ToRelax · May 2015

sagitter wrote: »

Omg jurra, stop complaining lol, almost Every day you complain about this in arena guild chat.Dk is not bugged god mode battle roar + stupid old ultimate regen passive \ unkillable batswarmer + ultimate decrease 3 stacking sets,vs 10+ ppl, anymore, deal with it mate. I have a dk too, and I refused to play it before 1.6 , I felt like I was cheating using that class.Now you can see the real skill of a player using a dk, and the game is more balanced . I m with you when you talk about attack animations, I think that was better before.

I was using Fire Blockade, Inner Light, Critical Surge, Absorption Field, Streak, Clouding Swarm for fight against larger numbers and they ALL got nerfed, some into uselesness, at least for a group of 2-8 players.

Derra · May 2015

Personally i´m undecided.

I really hated DKs in 1.5 (sorc pov here). There was nothing fun about fighting one. Mainly the issues of DK 1.5 DKs could have been solved by removing scales (hardcounter spells are not balanceable therefor remove it) and chains and giving them a gapcloser and a ranged ability.

About 2.0 i hate the unlimited resources for everyone without even thinking (basically). I really dislike the changes to ultimates and ultimate gain (make ultgain atleast account to every offensive skilluse not only light attacks).

I hate the instagib dmg and i hate that it´s the only way to kill someone at all bc of the beforementioned nonexistant resource management.

Also i think they should have changed healing ward. That spell is stupidly overpowered bc of smart healing.

Cody · May 2015

NerZhulen89 wrote: »

Juraigr wrote: »

its called playing smart if not one of you could be asked to stop FEEDING HIM ULTIMATE then die, a lot of people are like you just wanna smash buttons and kill things 'oh look and enemy in swarm lemme go toward him' 'oh look enemy standard not a problem for me' shut up with your nonsense there are so many ways to kill dks who try and rotation there way into ulti gen one doesnt even involve skills, its called 'WASD' its on your keyboard all you have to do is press it in the opposite direction

Killing someone by pressing WSAD, you can try that 24/7 you wont score a single kill.
They took your OP toys, stop QQing about it. Learn to play properly without abusing stuff or leave...

The person responding did not say you could kill someone by using WSAD, they are telling you to AVOID THE BATSWARMS. AVOID THE BANNERs. DODGE, EVADE, OUT MANEUVER.

do NOT stand inside an enemy batswarm, MOVE. If you are a NB, use fear, use the morph of circle of protection that fears undead, or just roll dodge out and move. With banners, same concept. Roll dodge out or just move out of the banner.

DKs are not OP. you just have to learn to get out of the way of their attacks. Its the same thing with every class.

Cody · May 2015

Ultimate generation is what you are complaining about? hmm, perhaps I should have watched the vids...

ulti generation does NOT need to go back to the way it used to be. We do not need ultimates every 5 seconds. lol, lord no. at that point they WOULD be almost unavoidable

FENGRUSH · May 2015

Cody wrote: »

NerZhulen89 wrote: »

Juraigr wrote: »

its called playing smart if not one of you could be asked to stop FEEDING HIM ULTIMATE then die, a lot of people are like you just wanna smash buttons and kill things 'oh look and enemy in swarm lemme go toward him' 'oh look enemy standard not a problem for me' shut up with your nonsense there are so many ways to kill dks who try and rotation there way into ulti gen one doesnt even involve skills, its called 'WASD' its on your keyboard all you have to do is press it in the opposite direction

Killing someone by pressing WSAD, you can try that 24/7 you wont score a single kill.
They took your OP toys, stop QQing about it. Learn to play properly without abusing stuff or leave...

The person responding did not say you could kill someone by using WSAD, they are telling you to AVOID THE BATSWARMS. AVOID THE BANNERs. DODGE, EVADE, OUT MANEUVER.

do NOT stand inside an enemy batswarm, MOVE. If you are a NB, use fear, use the morph of circle of protection that fears undead, or just roll dodge out and move. With banners, same concept. Roll dodge out or just move out of the banner.

DKs are not OP. you just have to learn to get out of the way of their attacks. Its the same thing with every class.

New strat: stand in all ults spam purge until megaserver bends to your will.

Juraigr · May 2015

Vizier wrote: »

Juraigr wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Ulti regen was the stupidest change ever made in this game. Why should a noob spamming light attacks on me while fighting 10+ players get the same ulti regen as me...makes total sense. GG ZOS you killed your own game. RIP PVP.

OH I know. It made total sense to be able to continuously run ultimate abilities like Batswarm while healing yourself. It was SOOO good for PvP. (I haven't forgotten that BS bud. And others should remember the bull pucky too.)

Ultimate regen right now is at a reasonable level. imagine that. you actually have to use your weapons for ultimate generation.

What reasonable level? Because its so fair when you re outnumbered 5:1 people that just stand around you and do light attacks and ranged spells having the same ulti regen as you. And i say that not having played at all dk seriously before 1.6, because my main is a templar. Good thing this ulti regen everybody is hiding behind numbers and demonstrate their depthless skill by applying their face on the keyboard and press 1 button. If you think ulti regen is fine you re so deluded, probably one of the zerglings hiding behind 50 people and emoting when they kill you 50vs10.

Numbers=Skill.

This exactly right here, why should i be be penalized for trying to fight many people on one?? very clear in the video not trying to toot my horn so apologies but when that raid was trying to hide we timed our ulti drops in order to maximize our own dps and minimize theirs and healing, which is EXACTLY what the ultimates where advertised to do. This new system just favors numbers as everyone is pointing out and im glad to see im not alone in this even if i do play dk. (and i still am playing dk even though i have a sorc)

How for **** sake are you penalized? Who ever said you should be able to spam ultimate merely because there are lots of enemies around. You are not penalized in any way shape or form. It is utterly ridiculous to suggest "ultimate" advantage should tip toward those spamming AOE vs larger numbers.

And to cry about things people zerging because there's more power with more people? What? It would seem logical that more people = more ability to dps and survive.

WHAT some folks are whining about is their inability to rotate the same 2 to 3 buttons to heal and drop bombs every 5 seconds. For the unthinking masses they blob. Water seeks the path of least resistance..shrug.

BUT there are some guilds out there that PROVE day after day smaller numbers can WTF PWN larger groups consistently. Shortbus, Legend to name a couple. (I am not a member of either guild but I absolutely respect what they are able to pull off through superior tactics, strategy and skill.) I play solo or in small groups pretty exclusively. The above mentioned notion that blobbing is the only way for PvP to go right now is just plain false.

I'm not saying we are not seeing more zerging, cuz I think we are but it's not because of ultimate generation. IMO it's because there is protection in numbers and small groups and gankers with the element of surprise have turned travelling alone or in too small a group a death sentence. It's definitely NOT due to reduced ultimate generation.

What we'd see again if ultimate generation was brought back to previous levels are demigod players and unkillable small groups farming AP in towers, small towers and windmills. I don't miss that crud one bit. Do you?

Makes sense, no balance in this game whatsoever, numbers should obviously be a deciding factor not skill seems legit cos most people are to lazy to learn how to play just wanna mash keys and things die, if i come across a group of 10, faceroll and emote on the corpses 'cos i got skillz' to play with 30+ppl yeah thats how we should play. Everyone stacking into zergballs spamming 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 until *** dies. People are blobbing more cos its more or less impossible to fight more than 5 people with this nonsense system in-place people hitting for 7k through block etc + the REAL bomb groups are more or less dead. Not this bs delueded foolishness about "being scared of gankers" bomb groups are gone, no point when u get zerged over in 10 secs of engaging with 7 different people dropping meteor lagging the hell outta the server, Im being rushed over by 15 people but its my own fault should have stuck with the zergs, let the sorcs and nb blink or cloak into infinity but let the dks and temps sit back and play horse sim all day long. God forbid a dk asking for changes clearly most people still havent grasped the concept of WASD.

Juraigr · May 2015

sagitter wrote: »

Omg jurra, stop complaining lol, almost Every day you complain about this in arena guild chat.Dk is not bugged god mode battle roar + stupid old ultimate regen passive \ unkillable batswarmer + ultimate decrease 3 stacking sets,vs 10+ ppl, anymore, deal with it mate. I have a dk too, and I refused to play it before 1.6 , I felt like I was cheating using that class.Now you can see the real skill of a player using a dk, and the game is more balanced . I m with you when you talk about attack animations, I think that was better before.

who are you??? from what i remember you play in an ep zerg probably one of the people that used to get steamrolled by banana squad and similar groups

Sanct16 · May 2015

Remove scales from the game and replace it with some escape tool and bring back old ultimate generation.

DK was pretty good against stupid people feeding you ultimate. But let's face, against skilled players you had no chance. Retreat spammed and 100% healdebuffed.

Ultimate generation is not exclusive to Dks. Nighblades got way more Ultimate with infinite resources... just saying.
This thread is not about 1vX at all. Tbh I think one guy killing 4 bad players and then dieing himself is fine. 1.5 was not like 1.0...
This thread is about the problem that before 1.6 there were actually tools to counter trains and increasing your group size was not only beneficial as you have you have opponents more Ultimate. Now there aren't any good counters. meatbag negate wall of elements banner was very effective to kill trains. If required groupskill to stay alive. Don't purge outside a friendly negate if you have wallspammers on you. Negate in the right moments. Ultimate were actually dangerous. Maybe fall back as big and avoid some enemy ultimates. There was so much strategy involved. Increasing your raid size meant increasing the risk to die due to individual missplays. You still had an advantage with 30 vs 12 but if the 30 had actually less situational awareness the siza advantage might backfire and play against you. This is how I liked the game.

Now there is absolutely 0 skill required for successful groupplay if you have enough players. Now being more is ALWAYS better. I think this is a bad change.

pjwb16_ESO · May 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

Remove scales from the game and replace it with some escape tool and bring back old ultimate generation.

DK was pretty good against stupid people feeding you ultimate. But let's face, against skilled players you had no chance. Retreat spammed and 100% healdebuffed.

Ultimate generation is not exclusive to Dks. Nightmares got way more Ultimate with infinite resources... just saying.
This thread is not about 1vX at all. Tbh I don't think one guy killing 4 bad players and then during is fine. 1.5 was not like 1.0...
This thread is about the problem that before 1.6 there were actually tools to counter trains and increasing your group size was not only beneficial as you have you have opponents more Ultimate. Now there aren't any good counters. meatbag negate wall of elements banner was very effective to kill trains. If required groupskill to stay alive. Don't purge outside a friendly negate if you have wallspammers on you. Negate in the right moments. Ultimate were actually dangerous. Maybe fall back as big and avoid some enemy ultimates. There was so much strategy involved. Increasing your raid size meant increasing the risk to die due to individual missplays. You still had an advantage with 30 vs 12 but if the 30 had actually less situational awareness the siza advantage might backfire and play against you. This is how I liked the game.

Now there is absolutely 0 skill required for successful groupplay if you have enough players. Now being more is ALWAYS better. I think this is a bad change.

yes definitly thats it

Bouvin · May 2015

NerZhulen89 wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Ah, a stamina nightblade. What a surprise that you would choose to defend 1.6 and the current state of PvP!

Actually any stamina based build except sniper was complete nonsense prior 1.6.
There was actually very few valid builds in PvP before 1.6, all of them involved some broken mechanic.
Heavy armor was useless, medium armor almost useless, two handed and dual wield was useless, you did most damage with restoration staff. Yet this guy and many other still say that there was nothing wrong with PvP.

As I say, nothing wrong for them...

Nirn nerf should help even out stam and magicka..

But I'm also afraid it'll turn ESO into Elder Sorceres Online as sorc is already wrecking it with current Nirn mechanics..

Garion · May 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

Remove scales from the game and replace it with some escape tool and bring back old ultimate generation.

DK was pretty good against stupid people feeding you ultimate. But let's face, against skilled players you had no chance. Retreat spammed and 100% healdebuffed.

Ultimate generation is not exclusive to Dks. Nighblades got way more Ultimate with infinite resources... just saying.
This thread is not about 1vX at all. Tbh I think one guy killing 4 bad players and then dieing himself is fine. 1.5 was not like 1.0...
This thread is about the problem that before 1.6 there were actually tools to counter trains and increasing your group size was not only beneficial as you have you have opponents more Ultimate. Now there aren't any good counters. meatbag negate wall of elements banner was very effective to kill trains. If required groupskill to stay alive. Don't purge outside a friendly negate if you have wallspammers on you. Negate in the right moments. Ultimate were actually dangerous. Maybe fall back as big and avoid some enemy ultimates. There was so much strategy involved. Increasing your raid size meant increasing the risk to die due to individual missplays. You still had an advantage with 30 vs 12 but if the 30 had actually less situational awareness the siza advantage might backfire and play against you. This is how I liked the game.

Now there is absolutely 0 skill required for successful groupplay if you have enough players. Now being more is ALWAYS better. I think this is a bad change.

Quoted for truth

Saft · May 2015

Pvp is still broken tho. Time to kill is absurd. and its full of NB apearing and disapearing and crazy sorcs BoL around taking massive load of dmg and just shake it off.

Broken is a good description. Atleast for Templars and DK whos dying, i guess NB and Sorcs love it.

Juraigr · May 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

Remove scales from the game and replace it with some escape tool and bring back old ultimate generation.

DK was pretty good against stupid people feeding you ultimate. But let's face, against skilled players you had no chance. Retreat spammed and 100% healdebuffed.

Ultimate generation is not exclusive to Dks. Nighblades got way more Ultimate with infinite resources... just saying.
This thread is not about 1vX at all. Tbh I think one guy killing 4 bad players and then dieing himself is fine. 1.5 was not like 1.0...
This thread is about the problem that before 1.6 there were actually tools to counter trains and increasing your group size was not only beneficial as you have you have opponents more Ultimate. Now there aren't any good counters. meatbag negate wall of elements banner was very effective to kill trains. If required groupskill to stay alive. Don't purge outside a friendly negate if you have wallspammers on you. Negate in the right moments. Ultimate were actually dangerous. Maybe fall back as big and avoid some enemy ultimates. There was so much strategy involved. Increasing your raid size meant increasing the risk to die due to individual missplays. You still had an advantage with 30 vs 12 but if the 30 had actually less situational awareness the siza advantage might backfire and play against you. This is how I liked the game.

Now there is absolutely 0 skill required for successful groupplay if you have enough players. Now being more is ALWAYS better. I think this is a bad change.

+1

Draxys · May 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

Remove scales from the game and replace it with some escape tool and bring back old ultimate generation.

DK was pretty good against stupid people feeding you ultimate. But let's face, against skilled players you had no chance. Retreat spammed and 100% healdebuffed.

Ultimate generation is not exclusive to Dks. Nighblades got way more Ultimate with infinite resources... just saying.
This thread is not about 1vX at all. Tbh I think one guy killing 4 bad players and then dieing himself is fine. 1.5 was not like 1.0...
This thread is about the problem that before 1.6 there were actually tools to counter trains and increasing your group size was not only beneficial as you have you have opponents more Ultimate. Now there aren't any good counters. meatbag negate wall of elements banner was very effective to kill trains. If required groupskill to stay alive. Don't purge outside a friendly negate if you have wallspammers on you. Negate in the right moments. Ultimate were actually dangerous. Maybe fall back as big and avoid some enemy ultimates. There was so much strategy involved. Increasing your raid size meant increasing the risk to die due to individual missplays. You still had an advantage with 30 vs 12 but if the 30 had actually less situational awareness the siza advantage might backfire and play against you. This is how I liked the game.

Now there is absolutely 0 skill required for successful groupplay if you have enough players. Now being more is ALWAYS better. I think this is a bad change.

quoted for all the truths