PvP is broken

Juraigr

for the most part there was nothing wrong with pvp prior to 1.5 these videos make that VERY CLEAR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twdk7CCUk-E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs2RI5JR02o

Oughash

Jurra

These videos provide a good "feel" for the difference between 1.5 and 1.6. I am also sick of being rolled by enormous Zergs without a fighting chance -- damn you should have seen the AD zerg on Chillrend NA on Wednesday. Holy Jeebus. Wish I had taken a screenshot.

Anyway, I think it would serve your case better if you were specific about which changes have hurt overall gameplay. I'll quote myself from a few days ago:

1. Performance. Worse since 1.5.
1.5. Vision. No statements in last six months.
2. Imperial City. Where is it?
3. Population Balance. Hasn't changed since 1.5.
4. Unbalanced scaling since 1.6. Removal of softcaps, champion system, overall nerf to everyone except dmg, changes to HP totals.
5. Nirnhoned. Not thought through.
6. Bugs and Inconsistency in the CC Mechanics. Even worse since 1.5.
7. Hidden Calculations and Incomplete API. Still a problem, although this hasn't changed.
8. Inconsistent Itemization. Huge difference since 1.5 b/c of removal of softcaps.
9. Ultimate Gain. Probably the biggest change -- huge nerf to small groups as illustrated in above videos.

Oughash

After watching your video, I want WoE back!

pjwb16_ESO

#BringBack1.5 #FreeUltiReg #[snip]

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

vortexman11

Nerfing purge wont help. Nerfing Rapid Maneuvers wont help. Buffing siege didn't help. Giving an AoE that instantly kills a group of 30 people is insane. Dynamic Ultimate Gain is the only way to fight against the zerg, too tired to go into detail because I've repeated myself far to many times.

Nice vids Jurra, its to bad you main a Dragonknight, it means no ones going to listen to you.

Juraigr

vortexman11 wrote: »

Nerfing purge wont help. Nerfing Rapid Maneuvers wont help. Buffing siege didn't help. Giving an AoE that instantly kills a group of 30 people is insane. Dynamic Ultimate Gain is the only way to fight against the zerg, too tired to go into detail because I've repeated myself far to many times.

Nice vids Jurra, its to bad you main a Dragonknight, it means no ones going to listen to you.

RIP thats the truth should have main my sorc so it would have been in the vids

Ishammael wrote: »

Jurra

These videos provide a good "feel" for the difference between 1.5 and 1.6. I am also sick of being rolled by enormous Zergs without a fighting chance -- damn you should have seen the AD zerg on Chillrend NA on Wednesday. Holy Jeebus. Wish I had taken a screenshot.

Anyway, I think it would serve your case better if you were specific about which changes have hurt overall gameplay. I'll quote myself from a few days ago:

1. Performance. Worse since 1.5.
1.5. Vision. No statements in last six months.
2. Imperial City. Where is it?
3. Population Balance. Hasn't changed since 1.5.
4. Unbalanced scaling since 1.6. Removal of softcaps, champion system, overall nerf to everyone except dmg, changes to HP totals.
5. Nirnhoned. Not thought through.
6. Bugs and Inconsistency in the CC Mechanics. Even worse since 1.5.
7. Hidden Calculations and Incomplete API. Still a problem, although this hasn't changed.
8. Inconsistent Itemization. Huge difference since 1.5 b/c of removal of softcaps.
9. Ultimate Gain. Probably the biggest change -- huge nerf to small groups as illustrated in above videos.

this right here

Ishammael wrote: »

After watching your video, I want WoE back!

dont we all lool really liked it weak dmg but the ulti build was great

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

#BringBack1.5 #FreeUltiReg #[snip]

please zenimax i begging you

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Prosski

After watching these videos of the past fighting big groups with small numbers just makes it hard to believe that was even possible after playing 1.6 for a while, now in pvp its just, small group vs big group = numbers win. so much fun.

p.s. Hate you jurra for showing these videos cause now i hate the 1.6 update and it makes pvp feel even more depressing to play xD

DoctorSwampy

My guild can still do things like this, as long as we have 12 fire ballistas up with oils and we're on the defensive because we get steam rolled if we don't use overpowered siege mechanics.
1.6 has made everything fun about the game die out. I don't say this JUST because I main a DK, I say this because now it's impossible to kill more than 20 people that are spamming stamina abilities or Magicka Det. unless you have 40 people or more.
Plus now I have to wear heavy if I want to die in 5 seconds instead of 1.5. <.<

Oughash

Juraigr wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

After watching your video, I want WoE back!

dont we all lool really liked it weak dmg but the ulti build was great

Do you remember breach --> WoE, oils, and standards?
RIP 1.5

Agrippa_Invisus

Ishammael wrote: »

Juraigr wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

After watching your video, I want WoE back!

dont we all lool really liked it weak dmg but the ulti build was great

Do you remember breach --> WoE, oils, and standards?
RIP 1.5

There are plenty of things I don't miss from 1.5. WoE spam was one of them.

Oughash

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Juraigr wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

After watching your video, I want WoE back!

dont we all lool really liked it weak dmg but the ulti build was great

Do you remember breach --> WoE, oils, and standards?
RIP 1.5

There are plenty of things I don't miss from 1.5. WoE spam was one of them.

The only issue was the purge bug. It didn't do that much damage.

bosmern_ESO

I say this a lot, when pvp works and its not lagging, its the best out there.

Agrippa_Invisus

Ishammael wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Juraigr wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

After watching your video, I want WoE back!

dont we all lool really liked it weak dmg but the ulti build was great

Do you remember breach --> WoE, oils, and standards?
RIP 1.5

There are plenty of things I don't miss from 1.5. WoE spam was one of them.

The only issue was the purge bug. It didn't do that much damage.

Individually no. Dozens stacked on top of each other in a breach? Yes.

They contributed heavily to the lag, would get culled out of the graphics load a ton (meaning you couldn't even see the things), had all sorts of physics goofiness (casting from a wall down to ground level), and generally were unfun to deal with.

I'm glad they adhere to the 'one per caster' other ground targeted AEs have to adhere to.

Sallington

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

I say this a lot, when pvp works and its not lagging, its the best out there.

That's what kept me around for a while, but the good times got overshadowed more and more by the.....less desirable times.

Garion

RIP ESO PVP

Juraigr

Prosski wrote: »

After watching these videos of the past fighting big groups with small numbers just makes it hard to believe that was even possible after playing 1.6 for a while, now in pvp its just, small group vs big group = numbers win. so much fun.

p.s. Hate you jurra for showing these videos cause now i hate the 1.6 update and it makes pvp feel even more depressing to play xD

Sorry mate rofl trying to show zos what they have messed up

Ishammael wrote: »

Juraigr wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

After watching your video, I want WoE back!

dont we all lool really liked it weak dmg but the ulti build was great

Do you remember breach --> WoE, oils, and standards?
RIP 1.5

That was amazing XXDD SOOOO many zergs falling to that

Oughash

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Juraigr wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

After watching your video, I want WoE back!

dont we all lool really liked it weak dmg but the ulti build was great

Do you remember breach --> WoE, oils, and standards?
RIP 1.5

There are plenty of things I don't miss from 1.5. WoE spam was one of them.

The only issue was the purge bug. It didn't do that much damage.

Individually no. Dozens stacked on top of each other in a breach? Yes.

They contributed heavily to the lag, would get culled out of the graphics load a ton (meaning you couldn't even see the things), had all sorts of physics goofiness (casting from a wall down to ground level), and generally were unfun to deal with.

I'm glad they adhere to the 'one per caster' other ground targeted AEs have to adhere to.

I don't disagree with you on any particular point. It was fun, though.

Anyway, WoE is now useless... which is my main complaint. And so is Eruption/Cinder Storm. One copy of an AoE per caster? Fine. But make it worth the effort, i.e. actually perform the A2AD purpose (Caltrops is RIDICULOUSLY good right now). For example, make one morph of WoE do more damage (~1-1.5k ticks per 0.5 s) and another be as large as Caltrops w/ comparable damage. Same treatment for Eruption.

Agrippa_Invisus

Ishammael wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Juraigr wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

After watching your video, I want WoE back!

dont we all lool really liked it weak dmg but the ulti build was great

Do you remember breach --> WoE, oils, and standards?
RIP 1.5

There are plenty of things I don't miss from 1.5. WoE spam was one of them.

The only issue was the purge bug. It didn't do that much damage.

Individually no. Dozens stacked on top of each other in a breach? Yes.

They contributed heavily to the lag, would get culled out of the graphics load a ton (meaning you couldn't even see the things), had all sorts of physics goofiness (casting from a wall down to ground level), and generally were unfun to deal with.

I'm glad they adhere to the 'one per caster' other ground targeted AEs have to adhere to.

I don't disagree with you on any particular point. It was fun, though.

Anyway, WoE is now useless... which is my main complaint. And so is Eruption/Cinder Storm. One copy of an AoE per caster? Fine. But make it worth the effort, i.e. actually perform the A2AD purpose (Caltrops is RIDICULOUSLY good right now). For example, make one morph of WoE do more damage (~1-1.5k ticks per 0.5 s) and another be as large as Caltrops w/ comparable damage. Same treatment for Eruption.

I would really enjoy it if Cinder Storm (and its morphs) were the magicka equivalent of Caltrops. They could perform the same function for Magicka based DKs without also having to dip into their small stamina pools.

Much how Inner Fire and Puncture serve many of the same functions, but one allows a magicka tank to taunt (I know there's a stamina morph).

Oughash

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

I would really enjoy it if Cinder Storm (and its morphs) were the magicka equivalent of Caltrops. They could perform the same function for Magicka based DKs without also having to dip into their small stamina pools.

Much how Inner Fire and Puncture serve many of the same functions, but one allows a magicka tank to taunt (I know there's a stamina morph).

Agreed. Or just give me back the 20% miss chance

Agrippa_Invisus

Ishammael wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

I would really enjoy it if Cinder Storm (and its morphs) were the magicka equivalent of Caltrops. They could perform the same function for Magicka based DKs without also having to dip into their small stamina pools.

Much how Inner Fire and Puncture serve many of the same functions, but one allows a magicka tank to taunt (I know there's a stamina morph).

Agreed. Or just give me back the 20% miss chance

I would love to get that back.

Oughash

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

I would really enjoy it if Cinder Storm (and its morphs) were the magicka equivalent of Caltrops. They could perform the same function for Magicka based DKs without also having to dip into their small stamina pools.

Much how Inner Fire and Puncture serve many of the same functions, but one allows a magicka tank to taunt (I know there's a stamina morph).

Agreed. Or just give me back the 20% miss chance

I would love to get that back.

Cinder storm was so good for Stam management. Miss chance plus 5% return per cast. And it added a DoT to help ult gen. But it was balanced by being a ground-targeted AoE that was small. Damn I wish I still had that skill still.

Soris

So many mistakes have made.. Don't you even take lessons from history? Like StarWars Galaxies. That game was just ruined with an update similar to 1.6.

Don't alter your game ever for the love of Nine Divines! Please revert the changes that 1.6 brought up. Or just simply allow emulator/private servers for 1.5 lol.
I'm sure more than half of your pvp player base will play that instead of this piece of shiet.

WebBull

If you are going back to 1.5, may as well go back to 1.2. Didn't all of the lag begin with the lighting changes in 1.3?

Soris

Well that is also good point.

Agrippa_Invisus

WebBull wrote: »

If you are going back to 1.5, may as well go back to 1.2. Didn't all of the lag begin with the lighting changes in 1.3?

Unfortunately, I don't feel the ZOS team has the technical ability to go back that far. To unsnarl four-five major updates out of a code base and return to the old version is a significant hurdle to overcome.

It's not just a matter of pulling backups, as there's no telling how much of the current player data (your levels, your items, et al) would be completely incompatible with that code base and give monstrous, uncorrectable errors just trying to load up a 1.6/2.0 character. And then comes redeploying, essentially, the entire client again to the entire playerbase.

In short, a logistical nightmare. If the coding for the lighting from 1.3 can be excised, that'd be great, but I don't think it can be at this point. Too many versions of the game stacked atop of each other to make a codebase that barely resembles what the game released with and too few of the original development team still working PC side (they're all on console side now).

technohic

These games almost never go back. I'm not sure I know of one that actually has other than a rollback the day of an update that went wrong immediately. Think this one is even more likely to just keep going forward as they tested their consol launch with the post-1.6 build.

Bouvin

WebBull wrote: »

If you are going back to 1.5, may as well go back to 1.2. Didn't all of the lag begin with the lighting changes in 1.3?

And the anti-botting code they added around the same time.

Ifthir_ESO

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

I say this a lot, when pvp works and its not lagging, its the best out there.

@Manoekin said this too and I agreed with him and I agree with you.

Nothing I've played comes close to two evenly matched, well played forces, fighting over a keep. Its why when PVP is bad I get so frustrated, because I know how good it can be. I am giving it two patches after console launch if I dont see PvP improvements I cannot keep playing.

Ifthir_ESO

Bouvin wrote: »

WebBull wrote: »

If you are going back to 1.5, may as well go back to 1.2. Didn't all of the lag begin with the lighting changes in 1.3?

And the anti-botting code they added around the same time.

kkravaritieb17_ESO

Nowadays numbers=skill. Tired of being facerolled by endless hordes of zergs without any chance to fight back. RIP ESO PVP

kkravaritieb17_ESO

Ulti regen was the stupidest change ever made in this game. Why should a noob spamming light attacks on me while fighting 10+ players get the same ulti regen as me...makes total sense. GG ZOS you killed your own game. RIP PVP.