Spell Dmg vs Weapon Dmg Imbalances -- Updated for Patch 2.1

Samuel_Bantien · May 2015

@Xsorus
Can't tell if trolling...
Or...
I wasn't there so it can't be true...
Or...
I can't do it so it must not be true...
You need to understand where magicka builds are coming from when their is so few (only 1) move that can reduce spell resist (mark target). Light Armor only gives 4k spell pen which is so small when fighting someone with 40k spell resist. It utter-ally sucks having half your damage mitigated when they can hit you with almost full power.

(I have 5 light 2 heavy and only have 7.9k armor by the way.)

But you just helped prove the point in all actuality. If he did hit a Light Armor[/b][/i] player for 27k then that proves that Light Armor does not provide much mitigation against Physical Damage builds. Medium Armor has 3/4ths the Armor and Spell Resistance of Heavy, so where exactly is the balance?
Sure, nonvets will have standardized armor and spell resistance, and playing in the nonvet server is probably the most balanced pvp, but on the vet servers players can run below what the Battle Level armor and spell resist gives. Okay, yeah, he gets a sneak attack critical, atleast stamina builds can do that unlike certain other counterpart builds.

Then when you're responding to what Ezareth has to say, you say that he's trying to do everything to "keep Sorcs from getting nerfed" when in reality nirnhoned is affecting all, not just sorcs, but all magicka builds. I'm getting hit by 7k - 11k wrecking blows all day, while only hitting 2k normals -5k crit concealed weapons all day due to Nirnhoned. Talk about balance. Any of the good and honest players will admit Nirnhoned needs to be toned down several notches, or make it work like reinforced (which would still be a bit broken because of the 3/4ths spell resist of heavy armor - medium armor players) and those who say nay are stamina builds that want an iWin button against half the community - or they can try and see why Nirnhoned needs to be toned down immediately by giving magicka builds a shot for several days to see how much we have to put up with. It only takes 10k spell resistance to knock someone's 6k spell damage attack to a 4k spell damage attack. Something is scaling too high, and armor is not one of them.

There is a reason why a majority of the players turned to stamina from magicka when they learned about how well weapon damage is stackable, how high the damage is in quick bursts, and also how abusive nirnhoned is in return making magicka builds into complete garbage. The only reason Sorcerer's are running around is because they have their own spell damage momentum which can only partially semi-counter nirnhoned because Sorcerers are the only class to be able to stack spell damage that high without requiring a target. You know how pitiful it is when you see a magicka build pigeonholed into using Dual Wield for the extra spell damage to be atleast (barely) competitive in PvP but then losing almost all sources of ultimate regen due to range for weaving, it really is pitiful. Atleast stamina builds can either be completely ranged or completely melee without much worry besides the few abilities that counter roll dodge. - Which stamina builds want these abilities dodgeable so they can perma rolldodge to crit rush for 8-11k. If roll dodge or these spells are nerfed, expect to see all of cyrodiil roll dodging each other and nobody dying. Imagine those NPC battles where they roll dodge, now multiply all that into one area, except without the random light and heavy attacks the NPC does its just players roll dodging around each other.

Something is not right when someone says that nirnhoned is fine the way it is in PvP - obviously a stamina build that just wants to stay in cruise control and training through light armor magicka builds. Its hard enough fighting infini-roll dodgers, but when they want to have 50% reduced magic damage taken something is not right and obviously broken. May as well call stamina builds "sorcerers" because perma BEing away is wrong, but perma Roll Dodging (A.K.A. Stamina Streaking) away is just fine and balanced.

-Back on topic. 12% Weapon Damage from Medium Armor, while Light Armor gets 4k Spell Pen (which can only be truly used if fighting a 7/7 Light Armor build (who will have 5-10k spell resist) - seems fair right? Well if Medium Armor without Nirnhoned has 14-16k spell resist, we still have to go through 10-12k spell resist which is enough to drop our damage by 1/3rd. Not cool, but stamina builds are saying: yep balanced - while they commence their 11-14k wrecking blow roll dodge spam.

ScruffyWhiskers · May 2015

+1 Truth

Joy_Division · May 2015

Jules wrote: »

Samuel_Bantien wrote: »

I would ask that ZoS gives each class a "Surge" type of ability where it does not require a target, and to switch spell resistances of Light and Medium armor to be able to combat each other.

Bolded for truth and importance. A self buff available to all that gives major sorcery would be a great step in the right direction.

I agree with the sentiment here but not sure this is the right solution.

If I use stamina, I'd argue it is imbalanced that magicka-users get self-buffs while I am restricted to using a specific weapon. As it is right now, people don't complain about the sorcerer Surge skill because 1) it isn't very good 2) Rally is VERY good and 3) Sorcs do a lot of other things that prompt complaints.

As for medium armor users getting so much more spell resistance to begin with, that was a silly decision.

olsborg · May 2015

Jules wrote: »

wanderlustx5 wrote: »

Kind of like there is no mundis stone that give stamina regen.

Another incredible oversight. There absolutely should be a stamina regen mundus.

there isnt a mundus for spelldmg either.

Ley · May 2015

Reading threads like this makes me sad that both my main characters are magica based, but I hold on to the hope that we'll be the kings again, some day.

Jules · May 2015

olsborg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

wanderlustx5 wrote: »

Kind of like there is no mundis stone that give stamina regen.

Another incredible oversight. There absolutely should be a stamina regen mundus.

there isnt a mundus for spelldmg either.

Jules wrote: »

[b]MUNDUS[/b]

The Warrior: increases weapon damage by 140
No available spell damage mundus

OrphanHelgen · May 2015

Magicka builds have spell pen mundus and magicka regen mundus. You also have 95% of the class skills. You can also spam you abilities to 0, and still break free or block. Block casting is useless on stamina builds. Let us have SOMETHING pls! And look at the gear you posted. How many of them have stamina regen and are still useful?

Francescolg · May 2015

This topic (TE, not the post before) has been already forseeable by the mid-end of last year, when bow damage was pushed into the sky.
Nowadays, Aimed Shot/.. is not just the best ranged DD weapon skill but it profitss from the above mentioned +weapon dmg disbalance, as does the WW-AoE, now hitting nearly for double the dmg and on top, unblockable damage.. ;-)

Why are there no alternatives for other weapon types, as fire-/healing staff, comparable to Aimed Shot?

Why are there no sets with a spell damage bonus, like the Ravaging set, with a %-based proc-chance for 600 spell dmg?

Why do people spend 100k to buy one piece of the ravaging Set, if they can farm it in PvP in one/in a few day/s? Why are the prices for +weapon damage sets 3-5x times higher? Why is there this huge request for +weapon damage equipment?

ToRelax · May 2015

Samuel_Bantien wrote: »

There is a reason why a majority of the players turned to stamina from magicka when they learned about how well weapon damage is stackable, how high the damage is in quick bursts, and also how abusive nirnhoned is in return making magicka builds into complete garbage. The only reason Sorcerer's are running around is because they have their own spell damage momentum which can only partially semi-counter nirnhoned because Sorcerers are the only class to be able to stack spell damage that high without requiring a target. You know how pitiful it is when you see a magicka build pigeonholed into using Dual Wield for the extra spell damage to be atleast (barely) competitive in PvP but then losing almost all sources of ultimate regen due to range for weaving, it really is pitiful. Atleast stamina builds can either be completely ranged or completely melee without much worry besides the few abilities that counter roll dodge. - Which stamina builds want these abilities dodgeable so they can perma rolldodge to crit rush for 8-11k. If roll dodge or these spells are nerfed, expect to see all of cyrodiil roll dodging each other and nobody dying. Imagine those NPC battles where they roll dodge, now multiply all that into one area, except without the random light and heavy attacks the NPC does its just players roll dodging around each other.

Nearly all Sorcs use magicka 1.) because that's why they chose the class and 2.) because stam Sorc is much weaker because it has no synergies with a stamina build.
If Surge was simply removed, that wouldn't change anything.

technohic · May 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Oh, and the way of air set gives 322 spell damage on dodge roll.

Because this is so useful to magicka builds:

Just to add this into my build would force me to lose a full 4 piece set, and the 4th piece of another set - which means I lose two 175 spell dmg set bonuses. In other words, I end up having to dodge roll to proc a boost that puts me at a lower spell dmg than I have in my normal armor set up. And on top of all of that, it's a medium armor set which excluded it from most magicka builds.

I myself run medium w/ my magicka setup, and this would be a bad set even for my build. The only usefulness this set has is for hybrid builds since it gives both spell & wep dmg procs - however ZOS pretty much screwed over hybrid builds by having max mag/stam factor into ability dmg to begin w/.

@Teargrants what sets are you using in medium? I've actually have been using 5 way of the air with 2 torugs, 3 syrabanes 2 archemage and pretty much right at 2k spell damage after a roll.

gibous · May 2015

Don't forget about penetration. It seems magicka users get penetration modifiers in lieu of raw spell power. Anyone have any insight on how those two things compare? Maybe penetration gets the short end of it when players are over the hardcap enough to still be at 50% mitigation.

Tankqull · May 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

You're forgetting that Martial Knowledge adds spell damage twice with 4 pieces, which is pretty good as well, and it has no prerequisites. Weapon damage has no equivalent of that.

I see absolutely no imbalance between weapon damage and spell damage. I am seeing 15K Crystal frags (tooltips, an instant cast one will do +20% damage), which is the same or more as maxed out Wrecking Blows. There are higher Wrecking Blows, but only from stealth.

3pieces of dreugh kings grants 2x weapon-dmg (wich offers a jewelery slot aswell) so this statement is completly wrong.

Ezareth · May 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

Again, you're comparing Sneak Attack, which is once per battle to something that you can use throughout the battle...the fact that you're trying to do that tells me and everyone else the lengths you'll go to try and keep Sorcs from getting nerfed.

The purpose of this thread is a demonstration of the differences between Weapon Damage and Spell damage and how abilities scale. I added the information I had available at hand for comparison as I agree with the OP. Concern for you and the rest of the Nerf-Sorc nerf-herders never really crossed my mind as none of you have anything rational to say as evidenced by your posts.

29,000 damage "once a fight" doesn't matter because the fight ended the moment it began.

Tankqull · May 2015

the main problem are the provided values by a weapon itself wich needs to be equalized among all weapons its complty bogus that from a spell dmg perspective

DW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2h>>>>>>s&B>Staffs this is ontop increased if you are using master weapons

lolo_01b16_ESO · May 2015

Jules wrote: »

[b]MASTERS WEAPONS[/b]

2h, Bow, DW all increase weapon damage significantly.
Destro, Resto do not increase spell damage at all.

Masters daggers don't increase your weapon damage at all. In fact they are worse than crafted non set daggers.

Daveheart · May 2015

Yep, at least for now, and they've been slow to fix bugged sets before.

Cathexis · May 2015

Itemization has always seemed pretty random to me but the argument that spell damage is severely gimped basically starts and ends easily enough with just the word nirnhoned.

Jules · May 2015

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

[b]MASTERS WEAPONS[/b]

2h, Bow, DW all increase weapon damage significantly.
Destro, Resto do not increase spell damage at all.

Masters daggers don't increase your weapon damage at all. In fact they are worse than crafted non set daggers.

Yeah idk who told you this, but you're wrong.

ToRelax · May 2015

Jules wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

[b]MASTERS WEAPONS[/b]

2h, Bow, DW all increase weapon damage significantly.
Destro, Resto do not increase spell damage at all.

Masters daggers don't increase your weapon damage at all. In fact they are worse than crafted non set daggers.

Yeah idk who told you this, but you're wrong.

If I recall correctly, @Soulac said it's bugged and doesn't provide any weapon damage...
But if so, it's a bug and has no place in this discussion, needs to be fixed of course.

Jules · May 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

[b]MASTERS WEAPONS[/b]

2h, Bow, DW all increase weapon damage significantly.
Destro, Resto do not increase spell damage at all.

Masters daggers don't increase your weapon damage at all. In fact they are worse than crafted non set daggers.

Yeah idk who told you this, but you're wrong.

If I recall correctly, @Soulac said it's bugged and doesn't provide any weapon damage...
But if so, it's a bug and has no place in this discussion, needs to be fixed of course.

It could potentially be a bug, I don't know.
Regardless, the weapon does in fact give weapon damage when working as intended.

Soulac · May 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

[b]MASTERS WEAPONS[/b]

2h, Bow, DW all increase weapon damage significantly.
Destro, Resto do not increase spell damage at all.

Masters daggers don't increase your weapon damage at all. In fact they are worse than crafted non set daggers.

Yeah idk who told you this, but you're wrong.

If I recall correctly, @Soulac said it's bugged and doesn't provide any weapon damage...
But if so, it's a bug and has no place in this discussion, needs to be fixed of course.

Two weeks ago after a patch it started working again, but i still won´t use it cause using 2 Morag Tong daggers is just better overall..

Teargrants · May 2015

technohic wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Oh, and the way of air set gives 322 spell damage on dodge roll.

Because this is so useful to magicka builds:

Just to add this into my build would force me to lose a full 4 piece set, and the 4th piece of another set - which means I lose two 175 spell dmg set bonuses. In other words, I end up having to dodge roll to proc a boost that puts me at a lower spell dmg than I have in my normal armor set up. And on top of all of that, it's a medium armor set which excluded it from most magicka builds.

I myself run medium w/ my magicka setup, and this would be a bad set even for my build. The only usefulness this set has is for hybrid builds since it gives both spell & wep dmg procs - however ZOS pretty much screwed over hybrid builds by having max mag/stam factor into ability dmg to begin w/.

@Teargrants what sets are you using in medium? I've actually have been using 5 way of the air with 2 torugs, 3 syrabanes 2 archemage and pretty much right at 2k spell damage after a roll.

4 Magnus, 4 Eye of Mara, 4 Healers, 2k spell dmg unbuffed. going w/ three 4 sets or four 3 sets maximizes the number of set bonuses you get.

technohic · May 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Oh, and the way of air set gives 322 spell damage on dodge roll.

Because this is so useful to magicka builds:

Just to add this into my build would force me to lose a full 4 piece set, and the 4th piece of another set - which means I lose two 175 spell dmg set bonuses. In other words, I end up having to dodge roll to proc a boost that puts me at a lower spell dmg than I have in my normal armor set up. And on top of all of that, it's a medium armor set which excluded it from most magicka builds.

I myself run medium w/ my magicka setup, and this would be a bad set even for my build. The only usefulness this set has is for hybrid builds since it gives both spell & wep dmg procs - however ZOS pretty much screwed over hybrid builds by having max mag/stam factor into ability dmg to begin w/.

@Teargrants what sets are you using in medium? I've actually have been using 5 way of the air with 2 torugs, 3 syrabanes 2 archemage and pretty much right at 2k spell damage after a roll.

4 Magnus, 4 Eye of Mara, 4 Healers, 2k spell dmg unbuffed. going w/ three 4 sets or four 3 sets maximizes the number of set bonuses you get.

Nice. I think I could give up the measly 224 stam regen to not have to dodge roll to have spell power and pick up some magicka along the way.

Thank you

BlackBacon · May 2015

You can't compare Spell & Weapon skills on the damage stat alone. You're missing half the damage equation. (Not to mention Crits)
(Stat + Weapon or Spell Damage*10.46)×Coefficient

In general % increases to Magicka have more of an impact than % increases to Spell Damage.

Let's say you're sitting on a base of 30k Magicka and 2k Spell Damage. Nearly 3/5ths of your damage is coming from Magicka. In this case +10% Magicka = +15% Spell Damage. Magicka multipliers are more common than Stamina especially given the Mages Guild Skill Line. Slotting Entropy, Meteor, and Inner Light will give you +11% Magicka. The equivalent of +16.5% Spell Damage given these stats.

Since 10.46 Magicka = 1 spell damage you can view The Mage Mundus Stone (1280 Magicka) as 122 Spell Damage AND additional casting resource.

Also in terms of outright damage Light Armor's passive Concentration (4,736 Spell Penetration (-7.4% mitigation)) generally gives a much larger benefit than medium armor's Agility (12% Weapon Damage).

Really the largest discrepancy between the 2 damage types comes from the OP Nirnhoned trait you've already mentioned. ZOS has announced they're fixing this in the next major update (whatever that means).

I'm not saying it's balanced but there's much more to the picture than this thread has been letting on. ZOS has done a great job of over-complicating and hiding a lot of information from us (like Skill Coefficients). Transparency on their end would go a long way in these balancing conversations.

Ezareth · May 2015

BlackBacon wrote: »

You can't compare Spell & Weapon skills on the damage stat alone. You're missing half the damage equation. (Not to mention Crits)
(Stat + Weapon or Spell Damage*10.46)×Coefficient

In general % increases to Magicka have more of an impact than % increases to Spell Damage.

Let's say you're sitting on a base of 30k Magicka and 2k Spell Damage. Nearly 3/5ths of your damage is coming from Magicka. In this case +10% Magicka = +15% Spell Damage. Magicka multipliers are more common than Stamina especially given the Mages Guild Skill Line. Slotting Entropy, Meteor, and Inner Light will give you +11% Magicka. The equivalent of +16.5% Spell Damage given these stats.

Since 10.46 Magicka = 1 spell damage you can view The Mage Mundus Stone (1280 Magicka) as 122 Spell Damage AND additional casting resource.

Also in terms of outright damage Light Armor's passive Concentration (4,736 Spell Penetration (-7.4% mitigation)) generally gives a much larger benefit than medium armor's Agility (12% Weapon Damage).

Really the largest discrepancy between the 2 damage types comes from the OP Nirnhoned trait you've already mentioned. ZOS has announced they're fixing this in the next major update (whatever that means).

I'm not saying it's balanced but there's much more to the picture than this thread has been letting on. ZOS has done a great job of over-complicating and hiding a lot of information from us (like Skill Coefficients). Transparency on their end would go a long way in these balancing conversations.

So you have to slot 3 abilities to increase your magicka by 11% and one of them is a toggle ability and terrible in PvP.
That doesn't make much of an argument at all. There are a ton of easily available weapon damage increase modifiers.
When you have 4,000 Weapon damage getting a weapon damage increasing buff like Major Brutality becomes far more powerful than your "Magicka" stacking scenario using Entropy for Major Sorcery. There are far more weapon/spell power increasing buffs that stack with the Warrior than there are Magicka increasing buffs that stack with Mages guild.

Also when you're stacking weapon damage of 3K+ a 12% increase of weapon damage will provide just as much of a damage increase as 7.4 mitigation piercing and if you're even higher it is even better.

How about the fact that physical damage has a single Champion ability to increase all your physical damage while magic damage is split between elemental and magic/poison/disease champion points?

Xsorus · May 2015

Samuel_Bantien wrote: »

@Xsorus
Can't tell if trolling...
Or...
I wasn't there so it can't be true...
Or...
I can't do it so it must not be true...
You need to understand where magicka builds are coming from when their is so few (only 1) move that can reduce spell resist (mark target). Light Armor only gives 4k spell pen which is so small when fighting someone with 40k spell resist. It utter-ally sucks having half your damage mitigated when they can hit you with almost full power.

(I have 5 light 2 heavy and only have 7.9k armor by the way.)

But you just helped prove the point in all actuality. If he did hit a Light Armor[/b][/i] player for 27k then that proves that Light Armor does not provide much mitigation against Physical Damage builds. Medium Armor has 3/4ths the Armor and Spell Resistance of Heavy, so where exactly is the balance?
Sure, nonvets will have standardized armor and spell resistance, and playing in the nonvet server is probably the most balanced pvp, but on the vet servers players can run below what the Battle Level armor and spell resist gives. Okay, yeah, he gets a sneak attack critical, atleast stamina builds can do that unlike certain other counterpart builds.

Then when you're responding to what Ezareth has to say, you say that he's trying to do everything to "keep Sorcs from getting nerfed" when in reality nirnhoned is affecting all, not just sorcs, but all magicka builds. I'm getting hit by 7k - 11k wrecking blows all day, while only hitting 2k normals -5k crit concealed weapons all day due to Nirnhoned. Talk about balance. Any of the good and honest players will admit Nirnhoned needs to be toned down several notches, or make it work like reinforced (which would still be a bit broken because of the 3/4ths spell resist of heavy armor - medium armor players) and those who say nay are stamina builds that want an iWin button against half the community - or they can try and see why Nirnhoned needs to be toned down immediately by giving magicka builds a shot for several days to see how much we have to put up with. It only takes 10k spell resistance to knock someone's 6k spell damage attack to a 4k spell damage attack. Something is scaling too high, and armor is not one of them.

There is a reason why a majority of the players turned to stamina from magicka when they learned about how well weapon damage is stackable, how high the damage is in quick bursts, and also how abusive nirnhoned is in return making magicka builds into complete garbage. The only reason Sorcerer's are running around is because they have their own spell damage momentum which can only partially semi-counter nirnhoned because Sorcerers are the only class to be able to stack spell damage that high without requiring a target. You know how pitiful it is when you see a magicka build pigeonholed into using Dual Wield for the extra spell damage to be atleast (barely) competitive in PvP but then losing almost all sources of ultimate regen due to range for weaving, it really is pitiful. Atleast stamina builds can either be completely ranged or completely melee without much worry besides the few abilities that counter roll dodge. - Which stamina builds want these abilities dodgeable so they can perma rolldodge to crit rush for 8-11k. If roll dodge or these spells are nerfed, expect to see all of cyrodiil roll dodging each other and nobody dying. Imagine those NPC battles where they roll dodge, now multiply all that into one area, except without the random light and heavy attacks the NPC does its just players roll dodging around each other.

Something is not right when someone says that nirnhoned is fine the way it is in PvP - obviously a stamina build that just wants to stay in cruise control and training through light armor magicka builds. Its hard enough fighting infini-roll dodgers, but when they want to have 50% reduced magic damage taken something is not right and obviously broken. May as well call stamina builds "sorcerers" because perma BEing away is wrong, but perma Roll Dodging (A.K.A. Stamina Streaking) away is just fine and balanced.

-Back on topic. 12% Weapon Damage from Medium Armor, while Light Armor gets 4k Spell Pen (which can only be truly used if fighting a 7/7 Light Armor build (who will have 5-10k spell resist) - seems fair right? Well if Medium Armor without Nirnhoned has 14-16k spell resist, we still have to go through 10-12k spell resist which is enough to drop our damage by 1/3rd. Not cool, but stamina builds are saying: yep balanced - while they commence their 11-14k wrecking blow roll dodge spam.

Yea, i'm playing a Magicka DK right now..and I can tell you right now a lot of your complaints are a joke when it comes to spell resist in PvP. I've not noticed a huge problem killing players at all. I have 5 Light/1 Medium/1 Heavy and i have 8200ish Armor right now. In fact I can tell you right now I've not been hit by no 28k wrecking blow as a Light Armor user either. I can also tell you as a Medium armor using Nightblade that if you think Medium Armor is going to save you vs light armor against any type of wrecking blow spam you're out of your damn mind...I will hit you and other light armor consistently for the same amount or close to it because I can remove a vast portion of it with 2 handed Mace/CP/Surprise Attack...You pretty much have to be stacking the hell out of armor for me not to just flat out ignore it.

As for you getting hit for by wrecking blow 7k/11k all day vs Concealed Blade..You're getting hit for that much by Wrecking Blow because it has a bloody cast time and delves for almost twice as much as Concealed Blade...In fact..In the time it takes for a person to get off Wrecking Blow you can get off Concealed Blade Twice..it also bloody goes through Dodge, hell even without going through dodge it does about the same damage as Wrecking Blow..Why you think on my Nightblade I use Surprise Attack over Wrecking Blow..Because its easier to land...and its more consistent damage.

Don't even get me started on the fact that you're running Concealed Blade while whining about Dodge Rolling... You realize that I bloody 3 shot or 4 Shot most Dodge rollers right now as a Magicka DK simply because they can't dodge roll Lava Whip...You know the thing you have the exact same thing as..called Concealed Blade..Dodge Rollers should be the least of your worries.

Also Learn to use Sharpened and Apprentice Stone.

Xsorus · May 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Oh, and the way of air set gives 322 spell damage on dodge roll.

Because this is so useful to magicka builds:

Just to add this into my build would force me to lose a full 4 piece set, and the 4th piece of another set - which means I lose two 175 spell dmg set bonuses. In other words, I end up having to dodge roll to proc a boost that puts me at a lower spell dmg than I have in my normal armor set up. And on top of all of that, it's a medium armor set which excluded it from most magicka builds.

I myself run medium w/ my magicka setup, and this would be a bad set even for my build. The only usefulness this set has is for hybrid builds since it gives both spell & wep dmg procs - however ZOS pretty much screwed over hybrid builds by having max mag/stam factor into ability dmg to begin w/.

@Teargrants what sets are you using in medium? I've actually have been using 5 way of the air with 2 torugs, 3 syrabanes 2 archemage and pretty much right at 2k spell damage after a roll.

4 Magnus, 4 Eye of Mara, 4 Healers, 2k spell dmg unbuffed. going w/ three 4 sets or four 3 sets maximizes the number of set bonuses you get.

How ya liking that type of setup?

Samuel_Bantien · May 2015

@Xsorus
I have all 73 Mage Points into Spell Pen, and I am also using the Apprentice Stone w/ Nirnhoned Weapons. There is 100% mitigation when fighting 50k spell resist players. If you have not noticed your lava whips hitting for 1-2k and feel content with your low damage against a medium armor user, then you are blind. Light Armor has 1 way in a straight up fight against a Stamina User, and that is shields - the one thing stamina users complain about. Half the time when roll dodging a wrecking blow it still connects, same as shield charge and crit rush. I have never met you, but you seem blinded by the power of Nirnhoned and your excuses are weak because you fail to see it.

Xsorus · May 2015

Samuel_Bantien wrote: »

@Xsorus
I have all 73 Mage Points into Spell Pen, and I am also using the Apprentice Stone w/ Nirnhoned Weapons. There is 100% mitigation when fighting 50k spell resist players. If you have not noticed your lava whips hitting for 1-2k and feel content with your low damage against a medium armor user, then you are blind. Light Armor has 1 way in a straight up fight against a Stamina User, and that is shields - the one thing stamina users complain about. Half the time when roll dodging a wrecking blow it still connects, same as shield charge and crit rush. I have never met you, but you seem blinded by the power of Nirnhoned and your excuses are weak because you fail to see it.

The only people I hit for 1 and 2k damage are people blocking, virtually everyone else I hit for 4k to 9k
Medium armor users are by far the easiest target for me to kill simply because I ignore their best form of mitigation

Also wrecking blow doesn't ignore dodge it's just hard to time, invasion and crit charge are very easy to dodge, and you use concealed blade which flat out ignores dodge

You can also flat out use blocking if you want as a la user, I use blocking on my dk and I use light armor because I don't have hardened ward

Samuel_Bantien · May 2015

@Xsorus
You would need to be fighting lowbies and LA players w/o nirnhoned in order to be doing 4-9k, and even then, we don't know what move you are using to hit 4-9k. If you are doing molten armament heavy attacks - its an execute. Blocking as a Light Armor user breaks our best form of survivability - CC break. You have petrify and lava whip which ignores dodge too. The only reason my 4k concealed weapon crits (2k spell damage & 33k magicka w/ max spell pen) beat medium armor dodgers is because it has a CC attached - just like petrify. If i'm unlucky and do not get enough crits in time to kill them through the momentum HoT and Vigor ticks or before a CC break its just retreating until I can try again. - Dragon Leap is considered physical damage meaning its mitigated by armor and not spell resist no matter which stat is stacked higher.

-I would like to see a 9k spell hit me as much as you say you can do, because Shooting Stars can only hit me for 5k-7k crits with 54k spell resist and the highest overload crit to hit me was on a 0 sustain 3k+ spell damage glass cannon crit me for barely over 9k - an ultimate and arguably the strongest one. As far as I can tell, you're a troll.

Spell Dmg vs Weapon Dmg Imbalances -- *Updated for Patch 2.1*

Spell Dmg vs Weapon Dmg Imbalances -- Updated for Patch 2.1