haha, nice man!

Very nice! Very nice indeed!

KerinKor wrote: »

LOL, and many sorcs whined that 1.6 nerfed them to Obilivion.

Nice to see proof it's an L2P problem, not a class problem.

90% of the time its a L2P problem... but you are right, its good to see.

KerinKor wrote: »

LOL, and many sorcs whined that 1.6 nerfed them to Obilivion.

Nice to see proof it's an L2P problem, not a class problem.

Yeah haha, I remember , so many topics like, ''zomg!1.6 Sorc Nerf into oblivion! ! " or " 1.6 death sentence of a sorc" and so on just a massive jump up in the "crybaby sorc nerfed wagon" without a logic or tested reason, when now is better than before.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

LOL, and many sorcs whined that 1.6 nerfed them to Obilivion.

Nice to see proof it's an L2P problem, not a class problem.

Thelon's build (and play style) are awesome, but that doesn't mean Sorcs didn't get nerfed. There are some things that are much better for Sorcs now, but there are some other things that are a real pain in the butt. The brutal nerf to Critical Surge heals means that your AOE DPS suffers greatly because you have to keep clicking on Ward to survive.

But anyway, I enjoyed this build, although my ghetto version only reaches 40,000 magicka instead of 44,000 (or more?) that Thelon is rocking. I would probably enjoy it even more if Ward actually refreshed properly on the pets. Who knows, maybe they fixed it with the latest patch?

Surge like was before it s not really a must for high end game contents, if you have a real healer.

I sometime wish to try a end game sorc but then I remember that I will get my third NB to V14 before I get anywhere near where the fun stuff appears to begin on the sorc.
I already deleted 5 lvl 15 -20 sorcs since launch.

Yea.. although I agree there was way more crying that necessary on 1.6 PTS, a solo build is just that, a solo build. It doesn't really reflect the capabilities of the class in more common situations like dungeons, trials, pvp.. This reminds me of when Rimez posted a video of him soloing this same dungeon with his DK a month or so after launch. Everyone had a "omg DK op" fit, and certain things were way overnerfed (RIP magicka furnace, inhale), but in reality his build was useless for anything other than soloing. I know this build can also hit decent DPS, but it's not even as good as other Sorc builds.

DK still hits harder overall than even the best sorc builds (although not by a mile anymore, the gap is much smaller), especially with these Molten Weapons builds that can hit 20k pretty easily with near infinite sustain. And sorc DPS has weird limitations that DK and NB don't have. One of our dots requires us to be in melee range, the other its a really tiny ground target AOE. In otherwords we can copy DK's meta with the Skoria set, so long as the boss stands perfectly still and doesn't have any high damage melee mechanics.

So we're almost there, the meta is a lot more fun than Crushing Shock spam for an hour, DPS is close but not quite there and weirdly situational.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

LOL, and many sorcs whined that 1.6 nerfed them to Obilivion.

Nice to see proof it's an L2P problem, not a class problem.

90% of the time its a L2P problem... but you are right, its good to see.

Words of wisdom... . There are balance issues in MMORPG's but they are nowhere near as severe on the whole as people make them out to be usually. My sorc...


http://i.imgur.com/YPSs7Ur.png

...is in the first and only North American DC guild in 1.6+ to date to complete the Sanctum Ophidia hardmode. And not many across any of the factions have. Classes are not in general underpowered in this game, bar a few specific issues here and there or skills in some versions. The ESO build system is open enough it is much more dependent on the player .

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Yea.. although I agree there was way more crying that necessary on 1.6 PTS, a solo build is just that, a solo build. It doesn't really reflect the capabilities of the class in more common situations like dungeons, trials, pvp.. This reminds me of when Rimez posted a video of him soloing this same dungeon with his DK a month or so after launch. Everyone had a "omg DK op" fit, and certain things were way overnerfed (RIP magicka furnace, inhale), but in reality his build was useless for anything other than soloing. I know this build can also hit decent DPS, but it's not even as good as other Sorc builds.

DK still hits harder overall than even the best sorc builds (although not by a mile anymore, the gap is much smaller), especially with these Molten Weapons builds that can hit 20k pretty easily with near infinite sustain. And sorc DPS has weird limitations that DK and NB don't have. One of our dots requires us to be in melee range, the other its a really tiny ground target AOE. In otherwords we can copy DK's meta with the Skoria set, so long as the boss stands perfectly still and doesn't have any high damage melee mechanics.

So we're almost there, the meta is a lot more fun than Crushing Shock spam for an hour, DPS is close but not quite there and weirdly situational.

That's simply not the case. Proof already posted in this very thread . The damage gap between Templar, sorcs, and DK's s very minimal nowadays and each has other things they contribute to leaderboard topping trial and vDSA runs than just damage or just healing. Nightblades remain king due to some advantages you cannot obtain or compensate for on the other three classes, but have less group utility as their downside. Is balance perfect? Nope. It never is or can be. But we're pretty darn close currently as far as pve is concerned, with small caveats on a pure role for one of the three trinity roles of tanking, damaging, or healing, but great hybrids or pure play of the other two roles, per class. That's not a bad thing. Having a class system would be pretty silly if everyone did the same things .

Oh, and on nerfs? Inhale and its morphs still kick ass in most situations to date still. Magicka furnace? It was well known in beta and feedbacked, even got nerfed before launch. When it went live with no further changes , what do you think the first handful of people including myself did upon reaching veteran rank 1 and getting access to the AD vet zones? Nope, we didn't go dart to v10. Some of us just farmed a set of magicka furnace, then pvp'd and leveled up with dungeons and quests as well. People vastly overreact to good combinations they never bothered to look for and demand reactionary nerfing to it. Why do you think many don't post their great setups on YouTube? You already just said why .

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

LOL, and many sorcs whined that 1.6 nerfed them to Obilivion.

Nice to see proof it's an L2P problem, not a class problem.

90% of the time its a L2P problem... but you are right, its good to see.

Words of wisdom... . There are balance issues in MMORPG's but they are nowhere near as severe on the whole as people make them out to be usually. My sorc...


http://i.imgur.com/YPSs7Ur.png

...is in the first and only North American DC guild in 1.6+ to date to complete the Sanctum Ophidia hardmode. And not many across any of the factions have. Classes are not in general underpowered in this game, bar a few specific issues here and there or skills in some versions. The ESO build system is open enough it is much more dependent on the player .

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Yea.. although I agree there was way more crying that necessary on 1.6 PTS, a solo build is just that, a solo build. It doesn't really reflect the capabilities of the class in more common situations like dungeons, trials, pvp.. This reminds me of when Rimez posted a video of him soloing this same dungeon with his DK a month or so after launch. Everyone had a "omg DK op" fit, and certain things were way overnerfed (RIP magicka furnace, inhale), but in reality his build was useless for anything other than soloing. I know this build can also hit decent DPS, but it's not even as good as other Sorc builds.

DK still hits harder overall than even the best sorc builds (although not by a mile anymore, the gap is much smaller), especially with these Molten Weapons builds that can hit 20k pretty easily with near infinite sustain. And sorc DPS has weird limitations that DK and NB don't have. One of our dots requires us to be in melee range, the other its a really tiny ground target AOE. In otherwords we can copy DK's meta with the Skoria set, so long as the boss stands perfectly still and doesn't have any high damage melee mechanics.

So we're almost there, the meta is a lot more fun than Crushing Shock spam for an hour, DPS is close but not quite there and weirdly situational.

That's simply not the case. Proof already posted in this very thread . The damage gap between Templar, sorcs, and DK's s very minimal nowadays and each has other things they contribute to leaderboard topping trial and vDSA runs than just damage or just healing. Nightblades remain king due to some advantages you cannot obtain or compensate for on the other three classes, but have less group utility as their downside. Is balance perfect? Nope. It never is or can be. But we're pretty darn close currently as far as pve is concerned, with small caveats on a pure role for one of the three trinity roles of tanking, damaging, or healing, but great hybrids or pure play of the other two roles, per class. That's not a bad thing. Having a class system would be pretty silly if everyone did the same things .

Oh, and on nerfs? Inhale and its morphs still kick ass in most situations to date still. Magicka furnace? It was well known in beta and feedbacked, even got nerfed before launch. When it went live with no further changes , what do you think the first handful of people including myself did upon reaching veteran rank 1 and getting access to the AD vet zones? Nope, we didn't go dart to v10. Some of us just farmed a set of magicka furnace, then pvp'd and leveled up with dungeons and quests as well. People vastly overreact to good combinations they never bothered to look for and demand reactionary nerfing to it. Why do you think many don't post their great setups on YouTube? You already just said why .

Show me a 20k+ DPS parse in a trial fight or 24k+ Bloodspawn parse as Sorc and I'll take back everything I wrote. Also,

Nightblades remain king due to some advantages you cannot obtain or compensate for on the other three classes, but have less group utility as their downside

????? Most raid groups mandate at least 2 NB entirely because of how good Veil of Blades is in some fights.

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

LOL, and many sorcs whined that 1.6 nerfed them to Obilivion.

Nice to see proof it's an L2P problem, not a class problem.

90% of the time its a L2P problem... but you are right, its good to see.

Words of wisdom... . There are balance issues in MMORPG's but they are nowhere near as severe on the whole as people make them out to be usually. My sorc...


http://i.imgur.com/YPSs7Ur.png

...is in the first and only North American DC guild in 1.6+ to date to complete the Sanctum Ophidia hardmode. And not many across any of the factions have. Classes are not in general underpowered in this game, bar a few specific issues here and there or skills in some versions. The ESO build system is open enough it is much more dependent on the player .

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Yea.. although I agree there was way more crying that necessary on 1.6 PTS, a solo build is just that, a solo build. It doesn't really reflect the capabilities of the class in more common situations like dungeons, trials, pvp.. This reminds me of when Rimez posted a video of him soloing this same dungeon with his DK a month or so after launch. Everyone had a "omg DK op" fit, and certain things were way overnerfed (RIP magicka furnace, inhale), but in reality his build was useless for anything other than soloing. I know this build can also hit decent DPS, but it's not even as good as other Sorc builds.

DK still hits harder overall than even the best sorc builds (although not by a mile anymore, the gap is much smaller), especially with these Molten Weapons builds that can hit 20k pretty easily with near infinite sustain. And sorc DPS has weird limitations that DK and NB don't have. One of our dots requires us to be in melee range, the other its a really tiny ground target AOE. In otherwords we can copy DK's meta with the Skoria set, so long as the boss stands perfectly still and doesn't have any high damage melee mechanics.

So we're almost there, the meta is a lot more fun than Crushing Shock spam for an hour, DPS is close but not quite there and weirdly situational.

That's simply not the case. Proof already posted in this very thread . The damage gap between Templar, sorcs, and DK's s very minimal nowadays and each has other things they contribute to leaderboard topping trial and vDSA runs than just damage or just healing. Nightblades remain king due to some advantages you cannot obtain or compensate for on the other three classes, but have less group utility as their downside. Is balance perfect? Nope. It never is or can be. But we're pretty darn close currently as far as pve is concerned, with small caveats on a pure role for one of the three trinity roles of tanking, damaging, or healing, but great hybrids or pure play of the other two roles, per class. That's not a bad thing. Having a class system would be pretty silly if everyone did the same things .

Oh, and on nerfs? Inhale and its morphs still kick ass in most situations to date still. Magicka furnace? It was well known in beta and feedbacked, even got nerfed before launch. When it went live with no further changes , what do you think the first handful of people including myself did upon reaching veteran rank 1 and getting access to the AD vet zones? Nope, we didn't go dart to v10. Some of us just farmed a set of magicka furnace, then pvp'd and leveled up with dungeons and quests as well. People vastly overreact to good combinations they never bothered to look for and demand reactionary nerfing to it. Why do you think many don't post their great setups on YouTube? You already just said why .

Show me a 20k+ DPS parse in a trial fight or 24k+ Bloodspawn parse as Sorc and I'll take back everything I wrote. Also,

Nightblades remain king due to some advantages you cannot obtain or compensate for on the other three classes, but have less group utility as their downside

????? Most raid groups mandate at least 2 NB entirely because of how good Veil of Blades is in some fights.

And most of the raid groups haven't done the hard modes . Just because you or your raid group have not yet played the Trials enough to learn what works well, what works best, and what doesn't, isn't indicative of what really is the case or not. Being in one that has, and having done them myself, I am telling you those opinions and how the classes generally stack up . Nightblades aren't taken just to get veil of blades and haven't been for a very, very long time in PVE.... many months, in fact, and other than when the first iterations of the trials came out in patch v1.2, they never really have been past starting a new group out.

You can believe me or not as you wish . It isn't terribly important to me if you do or don't, nor would it really impact me either way. For the same aforementioned reason of "good" builds getting ripped by thousands of people who then kill guys who don't know how to counter them or why they're dying to it (or why it works well in a Trial), then nerfed due to complaints... as well as the leaderboards being competitive by nature, I would not be showing you any information (particularly given the way you're asking for it) that might help you compete more strongly anyways, even if I did want to. This isn't to be "elitist" or anything of that sort, but when you're competing against eachother, you don't tell the other guys how to beat you . Everyone has the same tools in the game. It's up to you to find them and learn how to make them work. Ultimately you would reach the same generally-accepted conclusions if you work it out enough .

EDIT: Also, citing "a parse on the Bloodspawn" in Spindleclutch is about as far away from relevance as you can get for leaderboard positions in the Trials and veteran Dragonstar. The encounters don't allow you to stand still and nuke, nor do they last only 30 seconds when playing with high-end DPS dealers in your group/raid. They also have much higher resistance values against your attacks, and mechanical considerations in the fights, raid composition and the buffs various players are providing to the raid, etc. all factor into it as well.

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

LOL, and many sorcs whined that 1.6 nerfed them to Obilivion.

Nice to see proof it's an L2P problem, not a class problem.

90% of the time its a L2P problem... but you are right, its good to see.

Words of wisdom... . There are balance issues in MMORPG's but they are nowhere near as severe on the whole as people make them out to be usually. My sorc...


http://i.imgur.com/YPSs7Ur.png

...is in the first and only North American DC guild in 1.6+ to date to complete the Sanctum Ophidia hardmode. And not many across any of the factions have. Classes are not in general underpowered in this game, bar a few specific issues here and there or skills in some versions. The ESO build system is open enough it is much more dependent on the player .

Nice! Hey could you scroll up a little there to show me in the #1 spot?

You can just hit "J" and click the leaderboards tab in-game, if you didn't know . But if you're at work or something, here's a quick screenshot:



The only other higher DC scores are from the same guild and raid group on different alts where we still ran multiple sorcs . All of the higher ones are EP and AD guilds, as you can easily confirm for yourself when you next login . In all seriousness, it's pretty much splitting microscopic hairs to try to call one class bad or another uber by comparing raid compositions in the top 1/20th of one percent or less, of players who have done these trials . By the time you're debating about positions 1-10 in a game with millions of players.... you get my point, I imagine. It's like thinking because an amazing sports marksman uses a certain brand of weapon and model, that it's the only one that can compete. That's not true, and it isn't here in this game either.

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

LOL, and many sorcs whined that 1.6 nerfed them to Obilivion.

Nice to see proof it's an L2P problem, not a class problem.

90% of the time its a L2P problem... but you are right, its good to see.

Words of wisdom... . There are balance issues in MMORPG's but they are nowhere near as severe on the whole as people make them out to be usually. My sorc...


http://i.imgur.com/YPSs7Ur.png

...is in the first and only North American DC guild in 1.6+ to date to complete the Sanctum Ophidia hardmode. And not many across any of the factions have. Classes are not in general underpowered in this game, bar a few specific issues here and there or skills in some versions. The ESO build system is open enough it is much more dependent on the player .

Nice! Hey could you scroll up a little there to show me in the #1 spot?

You can just hit "J" and click the leaderboards tab in-game, if you didn't know . But if you're at work or something, here's a quick screenshot:



The only other higher DC scores are from the same guild and raid group on different alts where we still ran multiple sorcs . All of the higher ones are EP and AD guilds, as you can easily confirm for yourself when you next login . In all seriousness, it's pretty much splitting microscopic hairs to try to call one class bad or another uber by comparing raid compositions in the top 1/20th of one percent or less, of players who have done these trials . By the time you're debating about positions 1-10 in a game with millions of players.... you get my point, I imagine. It's like thinking because an amazing sports marksman uses a certain brand of weapon and model, that it's the only one that can compete. That's not true, and it isn't here in this game either.

Yep, I agree for the most part. We don't run any sorcs, but I don't think the class has nearly as many problems as the broader player base perceives. Personally I find my sorc to be a strong class, not as versatile as my DK in PVE but more so in PVP. I also play my sorc in a number of roles, and think they are fine for dps or tanking or tank/healing vdsa depending on group composition. It's not a carry class, as some are convinced.

We've found common ground to agree on, then.

double post