Not many people want to do Craglorn quests

Wyietsayon · May 2015

So, it's been well known that finding a group to quest in Craglorn is very difficult. And I've started wondering why. It's a well designed zone, with the same quality as the other zones.

Here's my hypothesis: Few people want to quest in Craglorn, because the rewards aren't worth the work it takes to gather a group.

What are the usual quest rewards?
-XP: We know xp there was nerfed to discourage overly high grinding xp gains. So, those looking to level up won't bother with Craglorn.

-Skill points: There are skyshards and I assume a skillpoint after major quests, but there's also skyshards and skill points as quest rewards in silver and gold, which are easier to obtain and can be done solo. If you've obtained those, you probably aren't hurting for points.

-Armor and gold: I have yet to successfully finish a Craglorn quest, but I assume the actual reward from the quest isn't that great. If it's like gold and silver, it's some gold and a green or blue item that will be vender'd anyway.

-Narrative: Some people just like to quest to be involved in a story, and this still applies here. Only, there's been one issue with questing with others, while trying to understand a story. Some people will want to hurry up and skip the dialogue, while others will want to wait and absorb it. That minute or so at every npc can really cause problems with these two different groups of people.

So, what can be done?

-Well, xp could be raised in careful locations, spots that wouldn't make a good grinding area?
-I don't know how to use skill points as rewards successfully here. Maybe increase the number available, or make them easier to obtain?
-Rare armor sets would be nice, but require a lot of balencing. Increase quality of reward items? Purple or potentially gold items? Again balancing required.
-Could the dialogue be more condensed, to more staged so everyone has to wait for the scene to play out?

I don't know. What are other's thoughts? Is Craglorn fine as it is? Is there another reason why people don't quest there often?

kodo · May 2015

i'll be happy to quest there..i'm now v2 ,but since this zone is so tough, i mean the chance for me to get to the quest area is so small,that i'll be eaten alive by some bug entire family with 70000hp long before..

dennissomb16_ESO · May 2015

For me, the biggest issue is phasing/quest steps. Generally I group with my guild. Difficult to do in craglorn (or anywhere really). If you are not all on the exact same quest and stage you often cannot even see the same mobs (or sometimes each other). Just to frustrating, have not bothered to even try group questing anymore

qsnoopyjr · May 2015

For me, someone gave me that quest when I was level 24...
I'm only lvl 27 now... Still cant take the cart to craglorn, otherwise I'd love to do this quest.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · May 2015

I think the big problems are...

1.) It's required grouping, when nearly everything up to that point had been soloable.

The people who WANT to group would have had to get through an entire game of not-grouping to get to this point, which means they probably stopped playing and never got there. The people who DON'T want to group, still don't want to group, so they don't show up either. You only get the middle ground people who don't mind either, and people who are there for other reasons (achievements, lore, nirncrux farming...). Which ends up being a pretty small subset given #2, which is...

2.) It's VR11+, which is a non-trivial point to get to.

I love the storyline quests in Crag, and I'd like to go through them again. But that requires my level 7 bank alt to do a LOT of questing first. A lot of people don't want to suffer through Cadwell's Silver/Gold even the FIRST time, and if you're not into PvP, what does that leave you with? Grinding and...that's it right now.

That said, I think if the grouping requirements for some quests weren't so picky about the number of people that would help somewhat; Critical Mass requires four people, but only when you get to a certain point (and with no real indication that you need the fourth until you get to that point). The Missing Guardian requires four just to get in the front door. Is there any reason for this restriction? Could making the delves work for groups of 3-5 instead of 4 exactly help? Just don't put in so many monsters if it's a smaller group, add more for a larger one, and nerf/buff the HP for the bosses respectively.

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

For me, the biggest issue is phasing/quest steps. Generally I group with my guild. Difficult to do in craglorn (or anywhere really). If you are not all on the exact same quest and stage you often cannot even see the same mobs (or sometimes each other). Just to frustrating, have not bothered to even try group questing anymore

This has gotten better; it's now possible to help people with a quest you've already completed.

Earthwardzilvox_ESO · May 2015

The rewards are such garbage that I actually feel bad for having done a craglorn quest, every time. Those boxes are such crap that it's like the npc is being cheeky and sarcastic with their thank you.

Plus, with nirncrux even rarer now than before, no one has time to quest. It takes two weeks farming just to get one crux.

Ffastyl · May 2015

Wyietsayon wrote: »

-Narrative: Some people just like to quest to be involved in a story, and this still applies here. Only, there's been one issue with questing with others, while trying to understand a story. Some people will want to hurry up and skip the dialogue, while others will want to wait and absorb it. That minute or so at every npc can really cause problems with these two different groups of people.

Hit the nail on the head for why I am hesitant to quest in Craglorn. I want the story, but after my experiences in group dungeons I am convinced the majority will trample over my desire without a second thought.

C0pp3rhead · May 2015

The rewards are awful. You get very little coin, very little xp, and items whose only value is deconstruction at a crafting station. Combined with the rest of the problems above, there is no incentive to do this content except for the first time in order to get the achievements and skyshards.

Alphashado · May 2015

Zos created their own monster here by making vet ranks so long and tedious. Naturally people were trying to find fast ways to get through them. But in their crusade to stop people from grinding, they have decimated their own content to the point that nobody wants to do it. The xp and rewards in Craglorn are a joke. The content is beautiful, but that beauty is wasted on a dead zone that zos themselves killed.

Elloa · May 2015

I love Craglorn with all my heart, but when I go, I go with guildies so I'm already in a group. And that's how most people I know are doing.

Istyar · May 2015

"Not many people want to do Craglorn quests"

Since its release...

Caroloces · May 2015

I have 3 alts I've been leveling simultaneously since the game's inception. All of them are hovering around VR5. One of them went into Craglorn when I first discovered the cart guy, and picked up the quest. The story seems very compelling and the zone is beautiful. When I ventured out a bit into the Craglorn countryside, and saw the nasties at a distance, and realized they were VR11, I gave a sigh and realized that this would have to wait.

I'm telling you, I'm chomping at the bit to do this zone, but I want to do it in a way in which the quest story takes center stage. I don't want to just go in and grind mobs. So my plan is to query my guilds for people who are like-minded in this approach, who won't rush through the dialogues, and will take the time to absorb the story and lore that makes up the zone. It's a bit of a commitment, but I have encountered guildies who share my sentiments.

At any rate, I've been told by a fellow guildie that one way of telling if you're ready or not for Craglorn is to take on a group of wasps, and if you survive, you just might be ready.

Have tried that once. Result . . . Death!

pecheckler · May 2015

Just say no to group world zones. Leave it with dungeons.

Ffastyl · May 2015

What faction and sever do you belong to @Caroloces ?
I have been searching for the same type of party with limited success.

wrlifeboil · May 2015

Caroloces wrote: »

I have 3 alts I've been leveling simultaneously since the game's inception. All of them are hovering around VR5. One of them went into Craglorn when I first discovered the cart guy, and picked up the quest. The story seems very compelling and the zone is beautiful. When I ventured out a bit into the Craglorn countryside, and saw the nasties at a distance, and realized they were VR11, I gave a sigh and realized that this would have to wait.

I'm telling you, I'm chomping at the bit to do this zone, but I want to do it in a way in which the quest story takes center stage. I don't want to just go in and grind mobs. So my plan is to query my guilds for people who are like-minded in this approach, who won't rush through the dialogues, and will take the time to absorb the story and lore that makes up the zone. It's a bit of a commitment, but I have encountered guildies who share my sentiments.

At any rate, I've been told by a fellow guildie that one way of telling if you're ready or not for Craglorn is to take on a group of wasps, and if you survive, you just might be ready.

Have tried that once. Result . . . Death!

Craglorn is a very appealing zone with one major flaw (or feature, I suppose, if you are the dev). If you are anticipating conquering Craglorn at VR11, you should reset your expectations.

Craglorn quests for most part are designed to be done in groups especially upper. You might think you can pull that one mob that seems to be far from any pack but you'll find more often than not that 3-4 or more will come with it.

It would be interesting to see what percentage of players have actually completed the quest line there. My guess would be less than 20%.

Ffastyl · May 2015

wrlifeboil wrote: »

It would be interesting to see what percentage of players have actually completed the quest line there. My guess would be less than 20%.

The last quests for both Lower and Upper Craglorn require a group to complete by design, so your guess is likely accurate. However all quests prior to the finale can be attempted and completed solo, and many have (including myself).

wrlifeboil · May 2015

Ffastyl wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

It would be interesting to see what percentage of players have actually completed the quest line there. My guess would be less than 20%.

The last quests for both Lower and Upper Craglorn require a group to complete by design, so your guess is likely accurate. However all quests prior to the finale can be attempted and completed solo, and many have (including myself).

I have seen DKs and templars soloing quests in Craglorn but not many sorcs and NBs.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO · May 2015

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

It would be interesting to see what percentage of players have actually completed the quest line there. My guess would be less than 20%.

The last quests for both Lower and Upper Craglorn require a group to complete by design, so your guess is likely accurate. However all quests prior to the finale can be attempted and completed solo, and many have (including myself).

I have seen DKs and templars soloing quests in Craglorn but not many sorcs and NBs.

I can solo some of them and I did it mostly as a challenge to my own abilities, but the mob scaling in some areas is so absurd even 4 man groups have trouble with it. I'd prefer it if, like dolmens, they made some of these events solo-scaleable where you'd get better/more rewards if you did it with more people, but it'd be doable if you wanted to. I ran into the same boat when i wanted to ask a NPC hey what's with this cursed area, and everyone else plows ahead and you're locked out of that dialogue with that NPC because everyone else is on the next stage and you got dragged with it. So what, I'm resorting to looking up NPC questline dialogue on a Wikia? I love ESO, but even I feel like Dev's dropped the ball when they said "solo experience" then for its first major content zone "Groups groups gotta do groups no I in Team!" The same logic that made 1 pip enemies like atronachs and gargoyles hit like trucks and hell wasps able to do 4k dmg each. The raids are fine as is for people who want the endgame, but all the little scattered events like magicka anomalies and nirncrux mines and anka-ra burials NO one wants to do those just for the fun of it. I tried joining up with a group started by someone who wanted to and after 30 minutes of trying to fill out the group the other guy got bored and logged off.

I hated it when Wow implemented similar questlines where you could lvl up solo but then all of a sudden you need a group to fight the ghost of a Trex or something. Another MMO I've played, however, LOTRO, has a sort of scaling option where you can do major quests either solo or in a group, and difficulty scales. They have the scenarios which offer rewards based on number of party members. People prefer to do things at their own pace, and with Crag quests its like you're trying to watch a movie and someone sitting next to you snatches the remote and fastforwards until they get to the part with explosions.

wrlifeboil · May 2015

WarrioroftheWind_ESO wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

It would be interesting to see what percentage of players have actually completed the quest line there. My guess would be less than 20%.

The last quests for both Lower and Upper Craglorn require a group to complete by design, so your guess is likely accurate. However all quests prior to the finale can be attempted and completed solo, and many have (including myself).

I have seen DKs and templars soloing quests in Craglorn but not many sorcs and NBs.

I can solo some of them and I did it mostly as a challenge to my own abilities, but the mob scaling in some areas is so absurd even 4 man groups have trouble with it. I'd prefer it if, like dolmens, they made some of these events solo-scaleable where you'd get better/more rewards if you did it with more people, but it'd be doable if you wanted to. I ran into the same boat when i wanted to ask a NPC hey what's with this cursed area, and everyone else plows ahead and you're locked out of that dialogue with that NPC because everyone else is on the next stage and you got dragged with it. So what, I'm resorting to looking up NPC questline dialogue on a Wikia? I love ESO, but even I feel like Dev's dropped the ball when they said "solo experience" then for its first major content zone "Groups groups gotta do groups no I in Team!" The same logic that made 1 pip enemies like atronachs and gargoyles hit like trucks and hell wasps able to do 4k dmg each. The raids are fine as is for people who want the endgame, but all the little scattered events like magicka anomalies and nirncrux mines and anka-ra burials NO one wants to do those just for the fun of it. I tried joining up with a group started by someone who wanted to and after 30 minutes of trying to fill out the group the other guy got bored and logged off.

I hated it when Wow implemented similar questlines where you could lvl up solo but then all of a sudden you need a group to fight the ghost of a Trex or something. Another MMO I've played, however, LOTRO, has a sort of scaling option where you can do major quests either solo or in a group, and difficulty scales. They have the scenarios which offer rewards based on number of party members. People prefer to do things at their own pace, and with Crag quests its like you're trying to watch a movie and someone sitting next to you snatches the remote and fastforwards until they get to the part with explosions.

From the outside looking in, Craglorn does seem like a waste in term of dev resources because they created an entire zone that even most higher level VR players can't or won't be able to do.

Imagine if the Orsinium DLC was doable by less than 20% of VR players. That would be an unwise DLC.

eliisra · May 2015

Problem with Craglorn quests right now:

1. It's made for groups.

2. Most players aren't to keen on making groups with random unless they're some incentive for doing so. Spamming LFM in zones and guilds, than grouping with total strangers, can be a pain in the butt. So you naturally want a bigger cookie for doing it. But with pathetic rewards and the nerf'ed to the ground exp, no one can be bothered going that extra mile, making a 4-man group for Craglorn content.

ZoS can either give players a reason to group up for Craglorn, making it worth our time. I mean there's clearly no lack of players that wants to group when the price is right. Look at pledges. I can fill a group in 35 seconds, during peak hours.

ZoS can also scale the zone for solo play. When people can do stuff in their own phase for the story, they tend to care less about experience and rewards. This because there's literally no effort, waiting around, drama and headache involved, doing a quest solo.

Ffastyl · May 2015

eliisra wrote: »

This because there's literally no effort, waiting around, drama and headache involved, doing a quest solo.

I'd prefer there be effort as the gameplay is as much or more of the story than the dialogue (show, don't tell). Attempting to solo Craglorn at present is a challenge, one of the few left to individual players. That threat of the beasts and monsters roaming Craglorn's wilderness supports the intermittent corpses and thriving caravan guard businesses, the atmosphere of being a no-man's land. If Craglorn were to be scaled to the present "solo" difficulty the tense atmosphere permeated with soothing sights would be lost. Look to past iterations of the final Main Story fight for how difficulty affects story. Originally the fight required everything at your disposal, a power you felt --knew was capable of pulling all the strings that led to the misery you witnessed beforehand, now staring you in the face. Now... the fight is less than memorable.

Osteos · May 2015

For people who are interested in the story and don't feel the need to skip dialogue I have a vet 10 in DC, Artemis Renault, that hasn't started the craglorn quests. I would be interested in a story driven group.

AhPook_Is_Here · May 2015

The reason is because the experience sucks. Even the daily quests for them have awful experience rewards. Nothing good drops in any of them, and they are all so easy now you can do them in 2-3 man groups.

There is a huge range of difference between players that are "playing as they want" casuals and Trials "caste" builds. From a DPS perspective about a 12k/dps gap. You have one group of players that do content at 8k dps and another at 20k-23k dps. I don't think they can balance the content so they just nerf it to where it becomes irrelevant.

Ffastyl · May 2015

@paleobonesb14_ESO , I am a Veteran Rank 14 DC, Ffastyl, who has done some quests in Craglorn and is interested in a story driven group. The quests leading up to the finale are not phase restricted so I can accompany you and any others interested in the story through the various quests.

Ourorboros · May 2015

Ffastyl wrote: »

@paleobonesb14_ESO , I am a Veteran Rank 14 DC, Ffastyl, who has done some quests in Craglorn and is interested in a story driven group. The quests leading up to the finale are not phase restricted so I can accompany you and any others interested in the story through the various quests.

One of my guilds, Lone Wolf Help, has a regular event doing the quests in Craglorn. I've managed to clear all the Lower Craglorn quests, and some non-quest content over the past month. Looking forward to the Upper Craglorn quests! I'm DC, but groups from the other factions do this also. Reach out to @Nestor or @MissBizz for a guild invite.

redspecter23 · May 2015

It's group content with no incentive. The rewards are no different than the 1-50 quests and the silver and gold areas. ZoS designed an area that is essentially group only but then at the same time, they didn't add any of the incentives that go along with other group content. It takes time to form a group. Time I could be doing other things in game or out of game. I don't mind putting the time in for a vet dungeon run that might get me a helm or shoulder piece I need or for trials where there is a chance at unique loot.

In my opinion, any non endgame content should be soloable, optional or scalable so that it can be done at endgame. Craglorn is certainly optional but not so much if you hit V11 and actually want something for your character to do.

It was a massive mistake in design to make the only content that we would see for over a year be catered completely to group play. I'd be fine if it was one part of a stream of content releases but it was the only new zone added in an entire year of the game being live and it appeals to such a small portion of the audience that I have to wonder what they were thinking. They raised the level cap twice without providing enough meaningful content to fill in the xp gaps.

That zone could have had soloable world content as well as delves and quests. It could have had multiple group dungeons as well as the three trials and the arena. A bit for everyone so nobody is left out. Instead they tried to cater to a particular niche ESO gamer and continuously stripped the xp out of the area until even the players that actually liked it got turned off. Very confusing way of doing things if you ask me.

Caroloces · May 2015

Ffastyl wrote: »

What faction and sever do you belong to @Caroloces ?
I have been searching for the same type of party with limited success.

I have alts in all 3 factions, all hovering around VR5. I'm on the NA server. Not sure if I'm leveled high enough though to tackle this content.
The Lone Wolf Help guild mentioned by @Ourorboros sounds very intriguing.

Ourorboros · May 2015

Caroloces wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

What faction and sever do you belong to @Caroloces ?
I have been searching for the same type of party with limited success.

I have alts in all 3 factions, all hovering around VR5. I'm on the NA server. Not sure if I'm leveled high enough though to tackle this content.
The Lone Wolf Help guild mentioned by @Ourorboros sounds very intriguing.

We've done some of the quests with a VR3. If you know your skills, your level shouldn't be a problem.

flintstone · May 2015

Craglorn was a major bust and should have shook up ZOS's as soon as they figured that out.....but they never got it and I doubt they ever will. After level 50 the whole game is a bust in my opinion.

I just keep starting over (not even sure why?)

Arundo · May 2015

I only go to Craglorn to turn in my crafting writs and to do some mats farming. For the rest I dont bother to go there. Tried a few times to get a group to do stuff as I'm a achievement hunter but getting a group is not worth the time effort. I mostly just go back to an alt or log out when I'm done with my dailies.

Killum · May 2015

I just reached Vet Lvl 1 for the 1st time (Soloed everything up to this point). So I took the cart to Crag and got to the Skygazers. Accepted the quest, did a little harvesting and got slaughtered by a pack of VLvl 11 Jackels. Don't think I will be questing in this region any time soon.