Not many people want to do Craglorn quests

AngryNord

There are rumoured to be guilds that specialise in doing Craglorn content. I haven't actually seen one yet though... (a lot of the PvE guilds seem to die out fast, and many of the guilds that label themselves as PvE turn out to be pledges/trials only)

Ethona

My reasons for not questing with folks I don't know, besides the two that i do know, and these two are understanding people.

* I grow tired of folks telling me to hurry up or skip with reading and listening to the story.
* I grow tired of folks telling me to play my class a different way when it's either not needed or they are the same class and should take their own advice!
* I grow tired of not being able to stop and sight see, check something out, you know, take in the world!
* I grow tired of folks having to AFK for "a minute" and taking 20 minutes!

With me it doesn't matter about the XP or the other rewards so much as folks just don't care. Sadly, once the social decay starts in a video game it can not and has not EVER been reverse. The entire genre of mmorpg has long since lost the social aspects. There's a reason why mmorpg has became mmo ... Because rpg no longer has a meaning, and the folks no longer have the desire for it. Even those of us that would like to bring back the great social aspects of a mmorpg, we find ourselves battling it out with the game studio (referring to anti-social systems such as group finder that isn't used anyways) and anti-social players (they seem to make up the vast majority of the player base). I'm in 5 guilds, one of them have sister guilds fill to max of active players, and with very little to no chat, very little grouping that I can observe, and 1% ever using the teamspeak.

Anyways, that's my rant, and I do hope social side of these games improve.

milkbox

Ourorboros wrote: »

One of my guilds, Lone Wolf Help, has a regular event doing the quests in Craglorn. I've managed to clear all the Lower Craglorn quests, and some non-quest content over the past month. Looking forward to the Upper Craglorn quests! I'm DC, but groups from the other factions do this also. Reach out to @Nestor or @MissBizz for a guild invite.

I've also been running the Craglorn quests with Lone Wolf, on the EP side. You can usually find high-level vets who are willing to lead groups (of mixed levels) through the content. Seems like they've been running lower Crag at least once a week, building up to having multiple groups (across all factions) able to move on to Upper Craglorn, DSA and Trials.

I highly recommend checking them out.

helediron

The solution for Craglorn is really simple. Instead of Skyrim-style playthrough change to MMO community style.

The fundamental error there is the main quest. It is group area but it is built as solo areas for single playthrough. Move the story arc into background metaquest and stop force feeding it. Make the actual dungeons phase-free. The main quest only registers something from the dungeons like boss kill, rescue, switch or item. Otherwise main quest is soloable story quest.

Make Craglorn quests work as pledges work now. All quests should be repeatable daily and in any order. Pledges are popular for a reason. They are right-sized to get a group up easily and give decent XP. There are no phasing bugs. Scaling keeps them interesting enough. Shada's Tear would be a great pledge. Having said that, don't make them actual pledges but daily repeatable quests.

Remove all the artificial gates, starting from the main quests. Let people play the game, even if they play it in wrong order, grind, farm or whatever foolishness we do. Sotp mircomanaging. Even when Craglorn is group area, remove the gates from solo players. It's better to let soloer to die to three horrible monsters than starve on three switchplates.

Restore XP back. This is pure don't-irritate-existing-whales issue. I unsubbed because of the XP butchering. After Craglorn turned worthless, to me ESO has hardly any new content since launch. There is nothing to sub to. New area every few months, eh? Never thought that would turn to twenty. I see what you did there, and i will remember that. Good luck hyping about DLCs.

Scrap that LFG tool and make a proper LFM tool. Let players handle the grouping. LFG can't be fixed because it doesn't do what community wants. Some want to lead and some want to be members. Some play casual and some elite. LFG just randomly slaps random people to random dungeon. And even fails to do that. LFG is uncontrollable and untransparent. Trials and DSA will stay guild-only until there is an LFM tool where leaders can build up groups. Even guilds would benefit from LFM to organize a private run. Casuals would benefit because they could gather for sightseing run.

Ffastyl

@Ethona , @Caroloces , @paleobonesb14_ESO , it seems we have enough interested in the story to form a party. I didn't mention it before because I thought it was too niche an interest to hope for a like-mind, but I also enjoy examining the architecture and landscape, Ethona.

I will also look into the Lone Wolf Help guild mentioned by @Ourorboros at a later time. I have college finals this week so my playtime is rather gimped.

Caroloces

Craglorn was a major bust and should have shook up ZOS's as soon as they figured that out.....but they never got it and I doubt they ever will. After level 50 the whole game is a bust in my opinion.

I just keep starting over (not even sure why?)

I do hear this sentiment quite frequently, and with all due respect, I heartily disagree. I've been in the game since late Beta, and I have to tell you, the game seems to get better and better the longer I play it. I'm a slow leveler with alts in each faction, and I feel I'm reaping the rewards now (as I progress through the vet ranks) of all the efforts I've put into the game thus far. My skills have been steadily improving (though still got a ways to go). I'm experiencing the benefits of all the crafting time and research I've put in (made my first legendary crafted set recently). I'm really enjoying the subtleties of the lore, and becoming more knowledgeable in the history and culture of Tamriel (so much so that I want to revisit some of the older ES games). And . . .I'm actually becoming more successful in PVP. After getting pulled off my horse while questing with some guildies in Cyrodil last night, and getting ignobly killed, I earned my first Avenge Achievement when I pulled down an enemy sorc shortly after my demise and quickly disposed of him.

And when I think of what's coming down the pike - Imperial City and Wrothgar - I can't help but feel excited about the possibilities that this game offers.

GreySix

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

For me, the biggest issue is phasing/quest steps. Generally I group with my guild. Difficult to do in craglorn (or anywhere really). If you are not all on the exact same quest and stage you often cannot even see the same mobs (or sometimes each other). Just to frustrating, have not bothered to even try group questing anymore

This.

Grouping/phasing in ESO has been broken from beta to now, and nothing but lip-service has been offered in the way of a fix.

Caroloces

Ffastyl wrote: »

@Ethona , @Caroloces , @paleobonesb14_ESO , it seems we have enough interested in the story to form a party. I didn't mention it before because I thought it was too niche an interest to hope for a like-mind, but I also enjoy examining the architecture and landscape, Ethona.

I will also look into the Lone Wolf Help guild mentioned by @Ourorboros at a later time. I have college finals this week so my playtime is rather gimped.

The challenge, of course, is trying to coordinate mutual times to undertake the quests. My suggestion would be this: Assuming we're all on NA, and have a suitable alt in a common faction, that we first find a guild oriented towards this effort (Lone Wolf Help sounds great!). Then we find some tentative times to dip our toes into Craglorn waters. The important thing is that we would have to agree not to advance the quest beyond the point that we have done it together. So it would be a pressure-free enterprise.

I'm in 5 guilds right now, but one is pretty inactive, so I could drop that one. @Ffastyl , I'll look for you in-game at some point.

JD2013

Well, if anyone wants to do them for story without rushing, and is on the EU server, drop me a PM

Edit: Am DC

WhiteCoatSyndrome

AngryNord wrote: »

There are rumoured to be guilds that specialise in doing Craglorn content.

I considered making one of these, but no one seemed interested.

Ourorboros

Caroloces wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

@Ethona , @Caroloces , @paleobonesb14_ESO , it seems we have enough interested in the story to form a party. I didn't mention it before because I thought it was too niche an interest to hope for a like-mind, but I also enjoy examining the architecture and landscape, Ethona.

I will also look into the Lone Wolf Help guild mentioned by @Ourorboros at a later time. I have college finals this week so my playtime is rather gimped.

The challenge, of course, is trying to coordinate mutual times to undertake the quests. My suggestion would be this: Assuming we're all on NA, and have a suitable alt in a common faction, that we first find a guild oriented towards this effort (Lone Wolf Help sounds great!). Then we find some tentative times to dip our toes into Craglorn waters. The important thing is that we would have to agree not to advance the quest beyond the point that we have done it together. So it would be a pressure-free enterprise.

I'm in 5 guilds right now, but one is pretty inactive, so I could drop that one. @Ffastyl , I'll look for you in-game at some point.

FYI, the Lower Crag quests need not be completed in order, other than the final quest, which can't be accessed before the others are complete. We have been jumping around during our Lone Wolf guild events, doing quests according to the needs of the party. I've actually done all the quests more than once, and expect to repeat them a few more times, especially if any of you join the guild. Our event leaders have done all the quests many times, and the experience makes these events pretty painless. My advice is you pick up the first quest in Belkarth and advance it to the point of delve entry. I'm pretty sure it works the same in Upper Craglorn too.

riverdragon72

I've really enjoyed the quests in Craglorn, finding groups tho is another story.

Teiji

Some of the Craglorn Delves and quests are really fun, interesting and so on.

But honestly, I imagine the best experience to be this but only with no veteran ranks;

• You casually level to max level
• You decide whether to do other faction zones or only do them on an alt
• You go to any adventure zone and engage in nothing but adventures, depending on the adventure zone this could be solo or group

As it stands now, the whole process of hitting max level; max level is 50 - only to have to then level up veteran ranks on top of being a level 50 character is an embarrassingly poor design decision.

I'm confident that without veteran ranks this game would have had such a positive image.

I'm excited to complete the first adventure zone - it's going to take me about a month to get from VR5 to VR14 before I feel comfortable to do so.

Wyietsayon

Cool, looks like my topic is getting some good feedback. Generally, it seems like people like the visuals of Craglorn and want to do the quests/exploration of the two zone parts, but the issues of gathering a group, the narrative experience issues behind having multiple people, and the low incentive for the quests prevent people for doing the zone.

Hoping that some devs are taking a look here. We've presented issues, and a few potential solutions. If it's just not feasible to create solutions for Craglorn, it's a least good feedback for future zones, especially anything involving large groups.

At the very least, I've at least increased membership in that Lone Wolf Help guild. So, kinda progress?

wrlifeboil

helediron wrote: »

The solution for Craglorn is really simple. Instead of Skyrim-style playthrough change to MMO community style.

The fundamental error there is the main quest. It is group area but it is built as solo areas for single playthrough. Move the story arc into background metaquest and stop force feeding it. Make the actual dungeons phase-free. The main quest only registers something from the dungeons like boss kill, rescue, switch or item. Otherwise main quest is soloable story quest.

Make Craglorn quests work as pledges work now. All quests should be repeatable daily and in any order. Pledges are popular for a reason. They are right-sized to get a group up easily and give decent XP. There are no phasing bugs. Scaling keeps them interesting enough. Shada's Tear would be a great pledge. Having said that, don't make them actual pledges but daily repeatable quests.

Remove all the artificial gates, starting from the main quests. Let people play the game, even if they play it in wrong order, grind, farm or whatever foolishness we do. Sotp mircomanaging. Even when Craglorn is group area, remove the gates from solo players. It's better to let soloer to die to three horrible monsters than starve on three switchplates.

Restore XP back. This is pure don't-irritate-existing-whales issue. I unsubbed because of the XP butchering. After Craglorn turned worthless, to me ESO has hardly any new content since launch. There is nothing to sub to. New area every few months, eh? Never thought that would turn to twenty. I see what you did there, and i will remember that. Good luck hyping about DLCs.

Scrap that LFG tool and make a proper LFM tool. Let players handle the grouping. LFG can't be fixed because it doesn't do what community wants. Some want to lead and some want to be members. Some play casual and some elite. LFG just randomly slaps random people to random dungeon. And even fails to do that. LFG is uncontrollable and untransparent. Trials and DSA will stay guild-only until there is an LFM tool where leaders can build up groups. Even guilds would benefit from LFM to organize a private run. Casuals would benefit because they could gather for sightseing run.

The LFG tool has been surprisingly ineffective given that we are all supposedly playing on a single megaserver. I guess it's a reality but it's too bad that every game developer has to start from scratch, learn the ropes and needs to reinvent the wheel on every game developed. WoW went through their LFG shakedown phase during Wrath of the Lich King more than six years ago. Same with phasing issues.

Interestingly on Friday's ESO Live, the ESO developer braintrust brainstormed how they would create a (hypothetical) underwater zone in the game. That reminded me of Vashj'ir, an underwater questing and instance zone in WoW Cataclysm. ESO would only be a little over four years behind WoW on that if something an underwater zone went live today.

Anyway back to Craglorn, I don't think they'll make major changes to Craglorn if the only incremental changes made to Cyrodiil are any indication. I get the sense that Craglorn was turned for a specific type of playstyle to achieve a certain objective and that if they pull one string, the entire thing will fall apart into an incoherent mess. But what a waste of a nice zone.

Nazon_Katts

We've been asking for many changes for a very long time. They did fix a few phasing issues, I'll give them that, but other than that not much has changed nor does it seem it ever will. The content I've finished in Craglorn I soloed and I've given up on searching for a group just as much as the devs have given up on improving the zone.

kodo

Ethona wrote: »

My reasons for not questing with folks I don't know, besides the two that i do know, and these two are understanding people.

* I grow tired of folks telling me to hurry up or skip with reading and listening to the story.
* I grow tired of folks telling me to play my class a different way when it's either not needed or they are the same class and should take their own advice!
* I grow tired of not being able to stop and sight see, check something out, you know, take in the world!
* I grow tired of folks having to AFK for "a minute" and taking 20 minutes!

same here.in general, i do dungeons just so that i can clear the map icon ,ther's no real way to enjoy it,every group i ever joined always ppl r in a rush forward, no one reads dialogues, no one even bothers to stop for 2 minutes to look at the scenery which is amazingggg .i tried to stop few times,but than you're just left behind, team doesnt even wait 1 extra minute for u..i did all dungeons in my original faction DC,and never have i seen one player that wanted to stop for few minutes.it's like ppl are all on steroids.

flintstone

Caroloces wrote: »

Craglorn was a major bust and should have shook up ZOS's as soon as they figured that out.....but they never got it and I doubt they ever will. After level 50 the whole game is a bust in my opinion.

I just keep starting over (not even sure why?)

I do hear this sentiment quite frequently, and with all due respect, I heartily disagree. I've been in the game since late Beta, and I have to tell you, the game seems to get better and better the longer I play it. I'm a slow leveler with alts in each faction, and I feel I'm reaping the rewards now (as I progress through the vet ranks) of all the efforts I've put into the game thus far. My skills have been steadily improving (though still got a ways to go). I'm experiencing the benefits of all the crafting time and research I've put in (made my first legendary crafted set recently). I'm really enjoying the subtleties of the lore, and becoming more knowledgeable in the history and culture of Tamriel (so much so that I want to revisit some of the older ES games). And . . .I'm actually becoming more successful in PVP. After getting pulled off my horse while questing with some guildies in Cyrodil last night, and getting ignobly killed, I earned my first Avenge Achievement when I pulled down an enemy sorc shortly after my demise and quickly disposed of him.

And when I think of what's coming down the pike - Imperial City and Wrothgar - I can't help but feel excited about the possibilities that this game offers.

Well, I was early beta and have played thousands of hours (retired). The game is great and I do have fun......but I need some new zones that advance the story some how......I don't want to group, and I don't much care for PVP (although I'm glad it's there for those that do).

I liked zones 1-50 and I liked them best when they were hard to complete (early beta). Give me more zones of the 1-50 type, and make them harder and I'll be happy.

I tried grouping a few times and did not enjoy it at all.........way to fast for me, (I like to poke along at my own pace).

drschplatt

It seems that the rewards just aren't worth the effort. My guild has grouped up for some Craglorn stuff before and we were unimpressed by the results of our labor. I know in other games when they create an landscape group zone (Limelight Gorge in LOTRO for example) they made the rewards worth you while. You didn't get much from the actual quest itself in LOTRO but they created a daily quest type experience where you would do the group events to earn tokens. Once you had enough tokens, there was a whole mess of gear, jewelry, weapon, housing, consumable, recipe, and cosmetic rewards you could purchase with your tokens. I loved that system because you weren't relying on some pointless RNG to get your gear but you had an actual goal to work towards with lots of options for your final reward. If Craglorn had something like that, I bet people would group up and do the quests.

Ourorboros

No the rewards for doing Craglorn quests are not equal to the task of doing them. Just like every other quest in this game. If the rewards are your motivation, you will be disappointed. The same as the rest of the games quests. There can be some good drops. Not up to trials, PVP, etc where most of the good dropped set come from. If that is the gear you want, those are the activities you need to do. It's not rocket science. My motivation for questing Craglorn is achievements and just generally exploring the game.. I just want enough loot to cover my repair bill, which is not a problem.

Thelon

wrlifeboil wrote: »

I have seen DKs and templars soloing quests in Craglorn but not many sorcs and NBs.

You, sir, have not seen a good pet build.

Merlin13KAGL

Unfortunately, there is less benefit in doing any part of the mainline quest more than one time. Even the repeatables are negligable.

@Killum, Craglorn is like the tiger exhibit at the zoo at VR1. Ok to look around. Probably best not to hop the fence anytime soon.

Jbugz97

they should add daily quest like what cyrodil has . because i agre with you its well design but i never had any reason to go their but to grind.

Ourorboros

Jbugz97 wrote: »

they should add daily quest like what cyrodil has . because i agre with you its well design but i never had any reason to go their but to grind.

There are multiple daily quests in Craglorn already. And yes, at VR1 it is safe to farm Craglorn, but best not tangle with wildlife solo.

danno8

Should have made the quests daily repeatables, with XP that exceeds grinding XP in the same time frame.

As it stands right now:

-require group (or challenging solo)
-less XP than just grinding
-phasing issues
-very meh rewards

You would have to be motivated to see the content to bother with them at this point.

Enodoc

Teiji wrote: »

But honestly, I imagine the best experience to be this but only with no veteran ranks;

• You casually level to max level
• You decide whether to do other faction zones or only do them on an alt
• You go to any adventure zone and engage in nothing but adventures, depending on the adventure zone this could be solo or group

I'm confident that without veteran ranks this game would have had such a positive image.

I'm hoping that the removal of Vet Ranks will make this vision a reality. I would like to do some of Craglorn before starting Cadwell's, but since it is

• hard to find a group for the quests anyway
• even harder to find a group who will help a VR1

I don't think I'll be able to. Again, removal of VRs should address this.

Making Craglorn Cross-Faction would also increase the potential grouping opportunities three-fold.